Bad Reaction to Dutasteride. Help?

[JoeP26]

Hi all. I'm 25 and I took Finasteride for hair loss for a year starting in the early summer of 2018 and switched to Dutasteride at the recommendation of my doctor in late July of 2019 because I wasn't seeing the regrowth results I was looking for. I had no noticeable side effects from the Finasteride and did fine on it. But as soon as I took the first dose of Dutasteride on July 29th, I had a reaction to it a few hours later. It was hard to breath, my heart was racing, my brain burned, my insides burned, and I felt like I was going to die. The reaction lasted a few hours, I slept it off, and woke up my normal self. I held off on taking it further for a few days and everything seemed normal so I tried another dose with the same reaction occurring again. I decided at that point to toss it. A couple of weeks went by where things were fine and then I suddenly got sick with chills and sore throat. That continued for a few days and then I was struck with the most intense panic attacks I had ever experienced coupled with this god awful pressure in my head. Nothing has been the same since.

Over the course of these past few months, I've had continual horrifying side effects from those two doses that have not gone away. My white cell counts have all been consistently high, my ANA is consistently positive, and my titer ratio is 1:640 but no autoimmune condition can be found. It also reactivated Epstein Barr Virus in my system for about 3 months, which has since cleared at the end of October. I've been to the ER 8 times, hospitalized twice, seen multiple specialists, and no one can figure out what's wrong. I saw a urologist in December who drew blood and diagnosed me with hypogonadism. I started Cypionate 150mg and HCG 1500ui once weekly 4 weeks ago. It only slightly improved some things but has not fixed the underlying issue. I've attached my urology labs below from December. I have more labs coming soon that will include Cortisol and DHT. I've also provided a list of my current symptoms. Any help or suggestions would be greatly appreciated to get my life back. Thank you!


Symptoms
-Loss of libido, sexual arousal (brain)
-Discomfort in the genitalia
-Muscle weakness, soreness
-Emotional flatness
-Head pressure
-Insomnia
-Loss of interest/enjoyment in daily activities
-Burning sensation of the skin
-Dry skin
-Face flushing/hot flashes
-Wheezing in right lung
-Sweating
-Ringing in ears
-Blurred vision
-Unintentional weight loss
-Feeling of imbalance in the brain
-Relentless Body Odor

EDIT: Updated symptoms to reflect current condition. Some symptoms have persisted and the ones remaining are listed above.

[Youthful55guy]

I have no experience with Dutasteride, so nothing to off regarding your side-effects. They do sound terrible. I'm sorry to hear it.

My comments are more focused on your doctor and his decision to switch you from finasteride without any supporting DHT labs? In my experience finasteride is EXTREMELY effective in driving down DHT levels and it's DHT that promotes hair loss. If your goal is to prevent hair loss, wouldn't it be prudent to know your DHT levels?

My DHT levels were very high while on normal (medically necessary) TRT. I say 'medically necessary' to distinguish it from the very high doses used for bodybuilding. I suspect that their DHT levels are much higher if they don't control it with finasteride. My standard protocol is 40-50 mg of T-cyp every 3 days, which works out to about 93 to 117 mg per week. This keep my Total T and Free T in the upper end of the normal range. However, untreated, my DHT levels normally run in the 100-250 ng/dL range with a normal range of 35-80. When I treat with 1.5-2.0 mg of finasteride, my DHT levels drop down to about mid-range to slightly above mid-range. When I treat with 5 mg per day of finasteride, it drives my DHT levels down to about 25 ng/dL, which is well under the low end of the range.

I see no reason to go below mid-range as my goal is not to prevent hair loss, but rather BPH. Men need a certain amount of DHT for normal sexual function, so I don't want to drive it too low.

The question is, what was your finasteride dose and what were your DHT levels?

[JoeP26]

I have no experience with Dutasteride, so nothing to off regarding your side-effects. They do sound terrible. I'm sorry to hear it.

My comments are more focused on your doctor and his decision to switch you from finasteride without any supporting DHT labs? In my experience finasteride is EXTREMELY effective in driving down DHT levels and it's DHT that promotes hair loss. If your goal is to prevent hair loss, wouldn't it be prudent to know your DHT levels?

My DHT levels were very high while on normal (medically necessary) TRT. I say 'medically necessary' to distinguish it from the very high doses used for bodybuilding. I suspect that their DHT levels are much higher if they don't control it with finasteride. My standard protocol is 40-50 mg of T-cyp every 3 days, which works out to about 93 to 117 mg per week. This keep my Total T and Free T in the upper end of the normal range. However, untreated, my DHT levels normally run in the 100-250 ng/dL range with a normal range of 35-80. When I treat with 1.5-2.0 mg of finasteride, my DHT levels drop down to about mid-range to slightly above mid-range. When I treat with 5 mg per day of finasteride, it drives my DHT levels down to about 25 ng/dL, which is well under the low end of the range.

I see no reason to go below mid-range as my goal is not to prevent hair loss, but rather BPH. Men need a certain amount of DHT for normal sexual function, so I don't want to drive it too low.

The question is, what was your finasteride dose and what were your DHT levels?

It was a new primary care doctor that switched me. I told him that my hair heavily receded for the past few years and that I had been taking Finasteride without issue for a year but wasn't getting any better results. He told me that he prescribes Dutasteride to his brother and that it works very well for him so he wrote it to me and that was that. After the reaction happened, I had been to the ER twice in one week and he refused to help me and thought I was making it up. I was perfectly healthy before that drug. No complaints minus a toenail with some fungus and the hair. And I fully agree. He should've been more wise before just handing it out.

I have no idea what my DHT levels were before everything. I was getting Finasteride through that Hims online subscription where they deliver it to your home via mail. Not sure what my DHT level is now but the Urologist I'm seeing ran that test and I will know within the next few days. The dose of Finasteride I was on was 1mg once daily.

[Youthful55guy]

A couple of thoughts:

1) I'm sure I don't need to tell you what you already know, but ditch the Dutasteride. Hopefully, your side-effects will clear up with time.

2) 1mg finasteride is a good starting dose for a guy on TRT. You should only increase it if you have labs to support that your DHT levels need further reduction. For me, 1mg brought my variable but always high HDT (100-250 ng/dL) down to just slightly above mid-range (about 64th percentile). Increasing it to 2mg brought it down to about mid-range. 5mg was way too much as I mentioned before. I'm now taking 2.5mg and will have new labs in about 5 weeks. I'll reevaluate my dosing then.

3) Your 150mg T-cyp once per week is an old school protocol. I highly recommend that you break up the dose and consider lowering the overall weekly amount. I recommend every 3 day dosing while some in this forum prefer twice per week dosing. There are benefits and drawbacks to both schedules, but I'm a strong advocate of E3D dosing. I've tried numerous amounts of T-cyp per injection on my E3D dosing schedule (subject of another string), but I am finding that approximately 0.25mL of a 200mg/mL solution of T-cyp (equates to about 117mg/week) is about optimal. This can easily be delivered with a 28G insulin syringe in my quadricep muscles.

4) Hair loss is a genetic thing and yes lowering your DHT can help slow it down, but you can only go so low on DHT before you run into de-masculinization problems. Once you straighten out the Dutasteride problems and get on a stable dose of oral finasteride to keep your DHT mid-range, you may wish to consider topical application of finasteride. There are a number of dermatologists now recommending this approach either as an addition to oral and/or in conjunction with oral finasteride. If you stay on TRT, my gut feel is to use both approaches. If you are interested, I've worked up a 'do it yourself' protocol, but I'm not currently using it because I want to evaluate solo 2.5mg finasteride first. I may layer it in after I get my test results in 5 weeks.

[JoeP26]

A couple of thoughts:

1) I'm sure I don't need to tell you what you already know, but ditch the Dutasteride. Hopefully, your side-effects will clear up with time.

2) 1mg finasteride is a good starting dose for a guy on TRT. You should only increase it if you have labs to support that your DHT levels need further reduction. For me, 1mg brought my variable but always high HDT (100-250 ng/dL) down to just slightly above mid-range (about 64th percentile). Increasing it to 2mg brought it down to about mid-range. 5mg was way too much as I mentioned before. I'm now taking 2.5mg and will have new labs in about 5 weeks. I'll reevaluate my dosing then.

3) Your 150mg T-cyp once per week is an old school protocol. I highly recommend that you break up the dose and consider lowering the overall weekly amount. I recommend every 3 day dosing while some in this forum prefer twice per week dosing. There are benefits and drawbacks to both schedules, but I'm a strong advocate of E3D dosing. I've tried numerous amounts of T-cyp per injection on my E3D dosing schedule (subject of another string), but I am finding that approximately 0.25mL of a 200mg/mL solution of T-cyp (equates to about 117mg/week) is about optimal. This can easily be delivered with a 28G insulin syringe in my quadricep muscles.

4) Hair loss is a genetic thing and yes lowering your DHT can help slow it down, but you can only go so low on DHT before you run into de-masculinization problems. Once you straighten out the Dutasteride problems and get on a stable dose of oral finasteride to keep your DHT mid-range, you may wish to consider topical application of finasteride. There are a number of dermatologists now recommending this approach either as an addition to oral and/or in conjunction with oral finasteride. If you stay on TRT, my gut feel is to use both approaches. If you are interested, I've worked up a 'do it yourself' protocol, but I'm not currently using it because I want to evaluate solo 2.5mg finasteride first. I may layer it in after I get my test results in 5 weeks.

I ditched the Dutasteride long ago. I only took two doses. One on July 29th and one on August 4th. The stuff has a half life of 4-5 weeks, so it remains in the system for 4-6 months and, even then, can still be stored in fat tissue getting released back into the system. After that last dose, I was done. I haven't touched that or Finasteride since and I won't be touching them again. Hair isn't worth it. Some things have gotten better and some things have eased a little but I still have a long ways to go. It's mainly what the medication did to the brain and nervous system that I'm trying to tackle. I will remain on TRT for however long it takes for my natural T to level back, if it ever does. If I have to be on it indefinitely, so be it. But I will never touch those meds ever again. I actually did the bloodwork the day before my weekly dosages, so if my T is low, I will probably take your recommendation and start splitting it up to twice a week instead of just once. I should probably also start separating out the Cypionate and HCG because I've been doing those at the same time every week.

[Youthful55guy]

I ditched the Dutasteride long ago. I only took two doses. One on July 29th and one on August 4th. The stuff has a half life of 4-5 weeks, so it remains in the system for 4-6 months and, even then, can still be stored in fat tissue getting released back into the system. After that last dose, I was done. I haven't touched that or Finasteride since and I won't be touching them again. Hair isn't worth it. Some things have gotten better and some things have eased a little but I still have a long ways to go. It's mainly what the medication did to the brain and nervous system that I'm trying to tackle. I will remain on TRT for however long it takes for my natural T to level back, if it ever does. If I have to be on it indefinitely, so be it. But I will never touch those meds ever again. I actually did the bloodwork the day before my weekly dosages, so if my T is low, I will probably take your recommendation and start splitting it up to twice a week instead of just once. I should probably also start separating out the Cypionate and HCG because I've been doing those at the same time every week.

A couple more thoughts:

1) Your natural T will never come back if you continue with TRT. Exogenous T completely shuts down natural production. Best advice I can give is to wait until the Dutasteride (about 6 half lives is a general rule of thumb for any drug). Then go through a PCT. Other guys with more experience in anabolic steroids can better advise you on this than me.

2) No need to separate out the T-cyp and HCG . They have very different half lives, so there's no point in trying to coordinate the two. I always inject on the same E3D cycle to keep the protocol simple. You might consider dropping the dose of HCG down a little to around 1000 IU per week. There are two good studies showing that's the optimal amount to preserve testicular function while on TRT. However, 1500 IU will not hurt you at all. Staying on HCG is a good idea. It will make the PCT easier to restart natural production.

[Youthful55guy]

FYI. I did a little research on the half life of Dutasteride. The half life is about 170 hours (~7 days) for men age 20–49 years and 300 hours (12.5 days for men age >70 years. The terminal (or elimination) half-life is 4-5 weeks. Because of its long elimination half-life, dutasteride remains in the body for a long time after discontinuation and can be detected for up to 4 to 6 months. In contrast to dutasteride, finasteride has a short terminal half-life of only 5 to 8 hours.

Both drugs are highly teratogenic to the developing male fetus, and this is why the FDA requires users of either finasteride or dutasteride to be put on the drug deferral list for blood donors. The withdrawl time for finasteride is 1 month but is 6 months for dutasteride.

[JoeP26]

FYI. I did a little research on the half life of Dutasteride. The half life is about 170 hours (~7 days) for men age 20–49 years and 300 hours (12.5 days for men age >70 years. The terminal (or elimination) half-life is 4-5 weeks. Because of its long elimination half-life, dutasteride remains in the body for a long time after discontinuation and can be detected for up to 4 to 6 months. In contrast to dutasteride, finasteride has a short terminal half-life of only 5 to 8 hours.

Both drugs are highly teratogenic to the developing male fetus, and this is why the FDA requires users of either finasteride or dutasteride to be put on the drug deferral list for blood donors. The withdrawl time for finasteride is 1 month but is 6 months for dutasteride.

Yep. Same info I read and was told by the urologist as well. I'm on month 5. By my math, the latest the drug would be detected in the blood is February 14th. In theory, small amounts of it could also be stored in the fat and rereleased back into the system when fat is burned. I'm pretty lean but have also gotten very skinny due to the decreased appetite and muscle wastage. I'm 5' 6" and 127lbs currently but was 136lbs before taking it. I don't think the fat is something I would probably need to worry about.

As far as why I'm continuing to experience really bad effects from it, is it possible we're looking at Post Finasteride Syndrome here? Or is it maybe that the rest of the medication needs to exit first and then I need time for the body to level back?

[Youthful55guy]

Yep. Same info I read and was told by the urologist as well. I'm on month 5. By my math, the latest the drug would be detected in the blood is February 14th. In theory, small amounts of it could also be stored in the fat and rereleased back into the system when fat is burned. I'm pretty lean but have also gotten very skinny due to the decreased appetite and muscle wastage. I'm 5' 6" and 127lbs currently but was 136lbs before taking it. I don't think the fat is something I would probably need to worry about.

As far as why I'm continuing to experience really bad effects from it, is it possible we're looking at Post Finasteride Syndrome here? Or is it maybe that the rest of the medication needs to exit first and then I need time for the body to level back?

I've never been a big believer that post-finasteride syndrome actually is real. I've had a very good experience with finasteride, but then again I'm on TRT. I think a lot of guys complaining about sexual and other side-effects from finasteride are not on TRT and don't realize that the hormone they are inhibiting (DHT) is 10X more androgenic than testosterone . You do not want to complexly eliminate DHT from your body. They also do not realize that finasteride is EXTREMELY effective at inhibiting conversion of T to DHT. A little goes a long way.

Keep in mind that I've never attempted a pituitary restart, so others here might have better advice than me. I'd continue the HCG and TRT for a couple more weeks, then eliminate the TRT but keep the HCG and add in about 25mg of clomid per day for a couple weeks, Drop the HCG after about a week into the clomid. At that point, stop all hormone treatments and let your system reset itself. It might be uncomfortable but stick with it. After about 6 weeks after discontinuing all hormone treatments, you should run a complete set of male labs (Total T, Free T, SHBG, E2 at a minimum) and see where you are.

I do not see a need for an AI. Many PCT protocols call for an AI at the beginning of the PCT, but those are usually designed for bodybuilders who still have huge doses of T and other synthetic hormones in their system. Your's will have normal levels so an Ai should not be necessary.

[JoeP26]

I've never been a big believer that post-finasteride syndrome actually is real. I've had a very good experience with finasteride, but then again I'm on TRT. I think a lot of guys complaining about sexual and other side-effects from finasteride are not on TRT and don't realize that the hormone they are inhibiting (DHT) is 10X more androgenic than testosterone . You do not want to complexly eliminate DHT from your body. They also do not realize that finasteride is EXTREMELY effective at inhibiting conversion of T to DHT. A little goes a long way.

Keep in mind that I've never attempted a pituitary restart, so others here might have better advice than me. I'd continue the HCG and TRT for a couple more weeks, then eliminate the TRT but keep the HCG and add in about 25mg of clomid per day for a couple weeks, Drop the HCG after about a week into the clomid. At that point, stop all hormone treatments and let your system reset itself. It might be uncomfortable but stick with it. After about 6 weeks after discontinuing all hormone treatments, you should run a complete set of male labs (Total T, Free T, SHBG, E2 at a minimum) and see where you are.

I do not see a need for an AI. Many PCT protocols call for an AI at the beginning of the PCT, but those are usually designed for bodybuilders who still have huge doses of T and other synthetic hormones in their system. Your's will have normal levels so an Ai should not be necessary.

I don't know man. It's been pretty terrifying what I've gone through. There are no amount of words that can describe the experience. That's my big fear is that the condition is real in rare circumstances and that's what I've got going on. Didn't believe it myself because I had no issues with Fin. If my DHT test comes back normal, then that would pretty much confirm it. But, if it is low or non-existent, would it be a good idea to get on an anabolic DHT like Stanozolol til 5ar production comes back? Maybe even try some progesterone to increase neurosteroid production? The insomnia and anxiety are killing me the most right now.

EDIT: Also, beings I blocked 5ar1 and 5ar2, does this mean there are different types of DHT as well and would anabolic only be chemically similar to what 5ar2 produces?

[Youthful55guy]

We are getting into an area where I don't have a lot of answers. I can only speak for what I would or would not do. Personally, I would not be introducing any synthetic hormones to treat symptoms. It's only going to shut down your HPTA further and make a restart more difficult. My gut feel is that if this were me, I'd ride out the symptoms and continue with moderate dosing of TRT for a couple more weeks and then attempt a restart. I would judge success or failure based on how you feel, but rather on labs (TT, FT, SHBG in particular). If after a couple months after the restart your labs are back to normal and you are still not feeling well, then I would consult a post-finasteride specialist.

[JoeP26]

We are getting into an area where I don't have a lot of answers. I can only speak for what I would or would not do. Personally, I would not be introducing any synthetic hormones to treat symptoms. It's only going to shut down your HPTA further and make a restart more difficult. My gut feel is that if this were me, I'd ride out the symptoms and continue with moderate dosing of TRT for a couple more weeks and then attempt a restart. I would judge success or failure based on how you feel, but rather on labs (TT, FT, SHBG in particular). If after a couple months after the restart your labs are back to normal and you are still not feeling well, then I would consult a post-finasteride specialist.

Understood. I'm hesitant on trying clomid though because healthy guys report mixed results being on it. PFS guys largely report it making things worse. Might just stick with HCG for awhile and see how things go. From what I understand, the HPTA doesn't control DHT production. I could be wrong but I don't think supplementing it would cause problems there. As for the neurosteroid topic, they are metabolites of baseline hormones. 5ar (1, 2, & 3) contribute to much of the production of these neurosteroids. If you shutdown the production, you experience the depression, anxiety, insomnia, psychosis, and neurological issues PFS guys report. CNS fluid tested in PFS patients showed a grave reduction in these neurosteroids. Unfortunately, there's no such thing currently as PFS specialist. There are only a handful of doctors globally looking into the new phenomenon but not able to offer any sort of treatment or cure unless something in the labs can be addressed. Often, however, everything in the blood looks reasonable for them. Most neurosteroids cannot be supplemented either because they don't exist synthetically on the market.

[Bonaparte]

Sounds to me like you had some side effects that triggered an underlying psychiatric condition (from your post I'm seeing a sprinkling of panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depression, fibromyalgia, and maybe a few other things) and that you've become yet another victim of Dr Google.
Reduced pelvic floor sensitivity? You isolated your grundle dysfunction from your penis? That alone is a red flag that you're really overthinking all of this.

Have you seen a psychiatrist or tried any anti-depressants/anxiolytics?

[JoeP26]

Sounds to me like you had some side effects that triggered an underlying psychiatric condition (from your post I'm seeing a sprinkling of panic disorder, generalized anxiety disorder, major depression, fibromyalgia, and maybe a few other things) and that you've become yet another victim of Dr Google.
Reduced pelvic floor sensitivity? You isolated your grundle dysfunction from your penis? That alone is a red flag that you're really overthinking all of this.

Have you seen a psychiatrist or tried any anti-depressants/anxiolytics?

Fully acknowledge that I've had extreme worry about the symptoms I've been experiencing. Anyone in my position would. Guarantee you would too. But the symptoms are very real and I won't accept anyone dismissing this all as psychiatric. I know my body and I know what it feels like like to be normal. I don't suffer from depression and the "anxiety" is no longer happening. Yet here I am still suffering. Again, I was perfectly healthy before taking that stuff and did fine on Finasteride for a year with no ill effects. The Dutasteride caused such a severity of side effects that it has changed everything and caused a lot of neurological and physical issues. And yes, my entire pelvic floor went numb for awhile (again, not psychological) nor could I get erect. Feeling has returned but the feeling is now the same kind of sensation you get when you bump the nerve in your elbow and that intense, uncomfortable sensation shoots through your arm. It shoots through my entire pelvic floor and into my legs. Bro, just stop assuming you know what's going on. If you're not going to actually be useful, go to another thread.

[Youthful55guy]

Fully acknowledge that I've had extreme worry about the symptoms I've been experiencing. Anyone in my position would. Guarantee you would too. But the symptoms are very real and I won't accept anyone dismissing this all as psychiatric. I know my body and I know what it feels like like to be normal. I don't suffer from depression and the "anxiety" is no longer happening. Yet here I am still suffering. Again, I was perfectly healthy before taking that stuff and did fine on Finasteride for a year with no ill effects. The Dutasteride caused such a severity of side effects that it has changed everything and caused a lot of neurological and physical issues. And yes, my entire pelvic floor went numb for awhile (again, not psychological) nor could I get erect. Feeling has returned but the feeling is now the same kind of sensation you get when you bump the nerve in your elbow and that intense, uncomfortable sensation shoots through your arm. It shoots through my entire pelvic floor and into my legs. Bro, just stop assuming you know what's going on. If you're not going to actually be useful, go to another thread.

Consider the possibility that those pelvic symptoms could be unrelated to dutasteride use.

The neurologic symptoms you describe sound like it could possibly be a pudendal nerve compression affecting the S2 and S3 sacral nerves. Posily related to prostate infection that has generalized to the surrounding tissue. Just went through the same thing and I still have mild tingling in the legs and buttocks when I exercise. Slowly getting better. At it's worse point, I lost much control of the anal sphincter and pelvic floor muscles, and full-on genital numbness. A 40-day course of ciprofloxacin cleared it up but it sucked big time while the infection was active.

[JoeP26]

Consider the possibility that those pelvic symptoms could be unrelated to dutasteride use.

The neurologic symptoms you describe sound like it could possibly be a pudendal nerve compression affecting the S2 and S3 sacral nerves. Posily related to prostate infection that has generalized to the surrounding tissue. Just went through the same thing and I still have mild tingling in the legs and buttocks when I exercise. Slowly getting better. At it's worse point, I lost much control of the anal sphincter and pelvic floor muscles, and full-on genital numbness. A 40-day course of ciprofloxacin cleared it up but it sucked big time while the infection was active.

I just attribute all of these symptoms I never experienced before to having taken it because I never had any of these prior. Perhaps it's just coincidence and culmination of other things. I'd be more willing to accept that with solutions rather than continuing to hear inflated egos pass judgment and default to the very easy, "it's all in your head," excuse.

I tend to agree that something is up with the prostate and pudendal nerve. Actually, I know something is up for sure with the prostate because my seminal fluid is literally thick clear yellow gelatin. Not even an exaggeration. It's the same exact consistency as mashed up jello bits. It gets stuck in my urethra and I have to massage it out. Got an appointment with the Urologist on Wednesday, so I'll definitely be telling him, as uncomfortable as it is. I've had bloodwork done by my PCP as well and they said my white counts were high, indicating a chronic infection, so that's probably it.

[Bonaparte]

Fully acknowledge that I've had extreme worry about the symptoms I've been experiencing. Anyone in my position would. Guarantee you would too. But the symptoms are very real and I won't accept anyone dismissing this all as psychiatric. I know my body and I know what it feels like like to be normal. I don't suffer from depression and the "anxiety" is no longer happening. Yet here I am still suffering. Again, I was perfectly healthy before taking that stuff and did fine on Finasteride for a year with no ill effects. The Dutasteride caused such a severity of side effects that it has changed everything and caused a lot of neurological and physical issues. And yes, my entire pelvic floor went numb for awhile (again, not psychological) nor could I get erect. Feeling has returned but the feeling is now the same kind of sensation you get when you bump the nerve in your elbow and that intense, uncomfortable sensation shoots through your arm. It shoots through my entire pelvic floor and into my legs. Bro, just stop assuming you know what's going on. If you're not going to actually be useful, go to another thread.

Psychiatric conditions are technically all "in your head", but that doesn't mean that they aren't real. My advice was to see a psychiatrist rather than a bunch of specialists who all just want to rule out the involvement of whatever their specialty is, while ignoring the obvious underlying anxiety and depression. I'm not doubting that you had/have somatic symptoms, but the psych stuff is likely exacerbating the hell out of it.

Most people with undiagnosed anxiety/panic disorders don't realize it. They blame it on some physical ailment until they have it plainly spelled out to them by someone who cares enough to stop passing them onto other specialists for a billing circle jerk.

[JoeP26]

Psychiatric conditions are technically all "in your head", but that doesn't mean that they aren't real. My advice was to see a psychiatrist rather than a bunch of specialists who all just want to rule out the involvement of whatever their specialty is, while ignoring the obvious underlying anxiety and depression. I'm not doubting that you had/have somatic symptoms, but the psych stuff is likely exacerbating the hell out of it.

Most people with undiagnosed anxiety/panic disorders don't realize it. They blame it on some physical ailment until they have it plainly spelled out to them by someone who cares enough to stop billing them for a bunch of pointless and expensive tests.

Bro, seriously get out with that psych stuff. I'm not even gonna take it seriously. There are no psych symptoms. You're hallucinating symptoms based on text. You don't know me as an individual nor what I have been through for the past 6 months as a result of taking that drug. Further responses from you will be ignored.

[Bonaparte]

Bro, seriously get out with that psych stuff. I'm not even gonna take it seriously. There are no psych symptoms. You're hallucinating symptoms based on text. You don't know me as an individual nor what I have been through for the past 6 months as a result of taking that drug. Further responses from you will be ignored.

Fine by me. Enjoy your very real physical disorder that could be fixed with Zoloft.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I am not sure what to take away from this thread . I am going to pick up my BW today and will know my DHT level from QUEST LABS . I have only heard good things about Finasteride and I was about to order 80 5mg tabs. On TRT and run about 200mg of Test a week give or take I pin 80mg every 2 day ex- (Pin on Mon and then Thurs and then pin on Sun so some 7 day weeks a bit more than 200mg) Take 100mg of Deca and absolutely love Halo and the pain relief I get and all my Live and kidney profiles are great and the best BW I have had in 4 years while cruising . I do a 3 mth heavy blast about 2 times a year and Hoping to get DHT lower and SHGB is low already ......... I will have the BW in my hands in a few and I can read better than my Dr . But I like to post to get the smart guys opinion ...... I am 60 and Hale at 20mg a day has not done anything bad to my BW and is an amazing Pain reliever for joints and arthritis . Been on for 75 days and just had BW so I was surprised at the verbal read out my Dr left on the phone in a message and I may think differently when I read it soooooo only out of range readings were glucose and I have had 4 cassette cortisone injections this past year and A1C was 6 and glucose level the day of BW was 135 so not out of site and I did not pin for 7 days prior to BW and test came in at 550 .

I guess I should start with 1mg of Finasteride and go up from there after BW in 4 mths . Now when I blast I do super Test 400mg blend , Tren ace , Primobolan , & Deca and start with Anadrol and then finish with Anavar ......... do HGC all the time as in year round ....... 60 years old with prostate Cancer and loving life .Very good love life to boot .....

[JoeP26]

I am not sure what to take away from this thread . I am going to pick up my BW today and will know my DHT level from QUEST LABS . I have only heard good things about Finasteride and I was about to order 80 5mg tabs. On TRT and run about 200mg of Test a week give or take I pin 80mg every 2 day ex- (Pin on Mon and then Thurs and then pin on Sun so some 7 day weeks a bit more than 200mg) Take 100mg of Deca and absolutely love Halo and the pain relief I get and all my Live and kidney profiles are great and the best BW I have had in 4 years while cruising . I do a 3 mth heavy blast about 2 times a year and Hoping to get DHT lower and SHGB is low already ......... I will have the BW in my hands in a few and I can read better than my Dr . But I like to post to get the smart guys opinion ...... I am 60 and Hale at 20mg a day has not done anything bad to my BW and is an amazing Pain reliever for joints and arthritis . Been on for 75 days and just had BW so I was surprised at the verbal read out my Dr left on the phone in a message and I may think differently when I read it soooooo only out of range readings were glucose and I have had 4 cassette cortisone injections this past year and A1C was 6 and glucose level the day of BW was 135 so not out of site and I did not pin for 7 days prior to BW and test came in at 550 .

I guess I should start with 1mg of Finasteride and go up from there after BW in 4 mths . Now when I blast I do super Test 400mg blend , Tren ace , Primobolan , & Deca and start with Anadrol and then finish with Anavar ......... do HGC all the time as in year round ....... 60 years old with prostate Cancer and loving life .Very good love life to boot .....

Finasteride 1mg never caused me any problems either. Only the Dutasteride. Really wish I had stuck with that instead of getting switched. Glad you're doing ok on a high dose like that though.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Finasteride 1mg never caused me any problems either. Only the Dutasteride. Really wish I had stuck with that instead of getting switched. Glad you're doing ok on a high dose like that though.

What I am having trouble understanding is why all the fuss ? I am just an old southern Marine with the mindset I can adapt and overcome anything and not even close to a knowledgeable member ..... Please share why you don't just move on and forget about the Durastride and go back to what worked .......... Seems like to me you are dwelling on what you already know does not work and caused you issues whether real or Pych. From what I think I read you were not getting the result you wanted from finasteride but it did regulate your DHT ? So to me it seems simple ...... go back to taking it ? You can buy it online and from pharmacy and a lot cheaper than at the corner drug store .

I just use my Dr. for blood work and some scripts to turn into the VA but there is so much info out there that few Dr's ever know of updated drugs or uses .......... You own personal health and well being is your responsibility not your Dr's he is just practicing on you ........... you can get anything online and if you are more congenial to experienced members they may just share an online pharmacy to get the meds you need at a greatly reduced price ....... Progerlone and HCG are huge to consider as brain food to assist in clear and precise thinking ....... At 60 years old and the wisdom I have gained is that there are no amounts of drugs on the market to prevent going bald or loosing hair especially if you are doing gear ....... So I would give up on that pipe dream of growing hair or preventing baldness .

Time to go see Bosley for implants and hair plugs if that is the big deal . I know guys that went bald at 25 and my dad is 89 and has more hair than me some is genetic and some is a direct result of medicines and drugs we have taken and been scripted . So embrace yourself and be who the maker intended you to be and have high self esteem no matter what ..... Have reasonable goal for you and be a man among men ! Hell at 26 be a Marine if you can ?

[JoeP26]

What I am having trouble understanding is why all the fuss ? I am just an old southern Marine with the mindset I can adapt and overcome anything and not even close to a knowledgeable member ..... Please share why you don't just move on and forget about the Durastride and go back to what worked .......... Seems like to me you are dwelling on what you already know does not work and caused you issues whether real or Pych. From what I think I read you were not getting the result you wanted from finasteride but it did regulate your DHT ? So to me it seems simple ...... go back to taking it ? You can buy it online and from pharmacy and a lot cheaper than at the corner drug store .

I just use my Dr. for blood work and some scripts to turn into the VA but there is so much info out there that few Dr's ever know of updated drugs or uses .......... You own personal health and well being is your responsibility not your Dr's he is just practicing on you ........... you can get anything online and if you are more congenial to experienced members they may just share an online pharmacy to get the meds you need at a greatly reduced price ....... Progerlone and HCG are huge to consider as brain food to assist in clear and precise thinking ....... At 60 years old and the wisdom I have gained is that there are no amounts of drugs on the market to prevent going bald or loosing hair especially if you are doing gear ....... So I would give up on that pipe dream of growing hair or preventing baldness .

Time to go see Bosley for implants and hair plugs if that is the big deal . I know guys that went bald at 25 and my dad is 89 and has more hair than me some is genetic and some is a direct result of medicines and drugs we have taken and been scripted . So embrace yourself and be who the maker intended you to be and have high self esteem no matter what ..... Have reasonable goal for you and be a man among men ! Hell at 26 be a Marine if you can ?

I'm not touching any 5ar inhibitors anymore. I'm dwelling on it because I'm experiencing very intense side effects of the Dutasteride that have changed daily life for me. I can hardly get out of my bed and everything around me seems like a bad acid trip. The side effects aren't listed but I'm not the only one out there experiencing them. It's rare but does happen. It causes methylation of the 5ar enzymes and things don't get produced properly anymore, even beyond DHT. We're talking all of the neurosteroids as well.

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

I'm not touching any 5ar inhibitors anymore. I'm dwelling on it because I'm experiencing very intense side effects of the Dutasteride that have changed daily life for me. I can hardly get out of my bed and everything around me seems like a bad acid trip. The side effects aren't listed but I'm not the only one out there experiencing them. It's rare but does happen. It causes methylation of the 5ar enzymes and things don't get produced properly anymore, even beyond DHT. We're talking all of the neurosteroids as well.

Yup join the Marine Corps they will fix every issue you have stated in this thread and pay you to learn plus free world travel ........

I promise you will forget about the bad trip and gain a new perspective on life