a new problem while on TRT...SEX!

[Black]

PPC, your attitude towards sex is awesome. I wish more women would think that way.

I've been trying to push my girlfriend to get some bloodwork done (hormone panel and reg. health). Since well before we were together, she has been on some type of birth control (pills, depo shot and implant). Some months ago she had the implant removed and has gone off all together (she started breaking out more on her face). Her periods are random (obviously) and non-existant.

What are some symptoms of a hormone imbalance (low estrogen?) to look for?

[meathead320]

I see some of the aggresive alpha male thing holding some validity. For some women it may even work for a while....and yeah I see the hotness in being told what to do now and then. It could spurn a lust like reaction if done well, but lust can't be relied on. Usually one parter will have a much lesser capacity to lust than the other partner...usually (not always) the lower capacity partner is the woman. The lust simply gets all used up and nothing really can jumpstart it when it's gone.

That's why I think it has to get beyond 'desire' or 'lust' for the lower desire parter and become a mindset, an informed decision and lifestyle attitude to say 'yes' to sex or to habitually initiate. The feelings can follow once you get down to enthusiastic business.

Like SlimmerMe, I hate making decisions and like to be just 'told' now and then. I kinda like the 'game' idea described by Meathead to be honest, but if that's the way it always was...it would get old pretty soon. When you are ten - twenty years into a marriage, can't see that always working. Some women feel loved when their mate does things for them. They are 'deed' driven. I doubt the 'game' thing would work as well for them. Having said that, deed driven women may still not put out when they believe they hold all the cards. Their husbands may do dishes, help with the kids, rub their necks and these women are still like...'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet.' This is when I think spouses need to get firm in the kindest way possible and let their partner know that it's not okay. Things must change. Loving demands for change are better than affairs on the side, serious porn addictions or a bitter divorce due to unmet needs. But I rant.

When I say Dominant male behavior, and not approval seeking, I obviously do not mean ALL the time. If you're in an LTR, and he is seen in as a leader, winner, etc... he certainly can get away with being nice now and then too. Just to avoid going so over the top, and so often with it, that he ends up in a "deed driven" as you put it, relationship, where she feels like she is the boss, holds all the cards, and is the "gatekeeper" to give him some sex one in a while (I can only image how boring that sex must be for her if its given as a reward).

You point out how these men are doing such nice things, and thier wife still says 'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet., you say he has to let her know thats not ok, but HOW to adress that is the question.

Countless men have grown a backbone, but displayed it in the wrong way. It looks like sour grapes, which again is going to kill her attraction.

Him: "look honey, I've been working really hard lately to please you, I do ______, ___________, ______, and ___________, and you still don't ever seem interested in me, and you turn me down all the time when I ask for sex. This is not ok, I feel like I have been doing a lot for you".

Her : (filled with rage now) "YOU think you DESERVE sex with me, YOU call THAT going out of your way, YOU CALL THAT PLEASING ME, PFFTT You hardly do anything for me, and YOU EXPECT SEX!!, I don't even want to talk to you anymore, you really dissapoint me"

Him: "but but but honey that's not what I meant, I really think I have done a lot around h" she cuts him off with....

Her: "Ohh you've done enough allright, I'm done talking to you, I'm going out with the girls tonight, have a good evening by yourself"


Later that night, when out with the "girls" she has sex with a younger more attractive man, 100% guilt free, doesn't talk to her husband for 2 weeks, and only has cold fish sex with him once a month later, before stoping early do to her "headache". This may sound like a hyperbole, it is NOT. In many 10-20 year relationships things ARE that bad. Look at America's divorce rate.

My point is there is a WAY to go about adressing the problem, without sounding like sour grapes, or coming off as desperate, and simply using words to "talk" about the problem, in any way, simply illustrates his desperation, and desperation will only lower his value MORE in her eyes.

So what would I suggest he do?

1. Stop doing as many chores. Let stuff pile up a bit, and ignore her when she complains.

2. All that approaching her for affection in general (hugging kissing etc...) that likely he has been initiating 100% of the time, he needs to back off. Stop it alltogether.

3. If he is out of shape, get a gym membership. It gives him a reason to both get a better looking body, and two, gets him out more, being around less helps.

4. Get some newer and more in fashion clothes. Dress to look attractive whenever he leaves the house.

5. Answer his phone less, and not respond to all of her texts, and the ones he does, respong 10-20 minutes later, only sending 2/3rds as much as she does.

Now she is going to get really pissed. IMHO this is an instinctive challenge. She sees him becoming a more attractive man, but wants to take him down a notch.

She will try to get him to fall back into submissive behavior, by getting the ultimate submission out of him. The apology. She will try toget him to say he is sorry and beg her forgivness. This is the critical piont he MUST avoid. When she does he simply needs to say "hmmm.... you don't like it when I take care of myself or don't capitulate to all of your all your wants, I'm not a slave, and I will do what is good for me" Heck, not giving any responce but just an annoyed eyeroll (by now she has it coming after the YEARS she has been pulling this BS herself). Whatever you do, don't give in.

Now she is going to do some things you would not expect on paper. She will all of the sudden come around. Its the most counter intuitive thing, but you have demonstrated a lot of non-needness. If you are afraid to do this, that is half the problem. Men who are fear motivated are instantly sniffed out as unnatractive to women.

What a man doing such as the above 5 list, he is doing it showing her in ACTION that the way he has been treated is wrong. ACTION speeks FAR louder than his words can. She will think he is ready to move on, to replace her, to get another women, who treats him better and now easily could, or may already be doing so. Her natural instinct now kicks in to preserve the relationship by becoming the one to please her, she will oddly enough also be far more aroused by him. He is also displaying that he is an attractive man, and puitting her in a possition to now work for his affection, and she will.

On paper it looks like that would never work, however its just one of those things that does. Guys, regardless of what they SAY, women are NOT, logical in the way we are. You know 2+2=4, SHE thinks "how do I feel about 2+2?"

[SlimmerMe]

To Dante Diamond......re: birth control and hormones

another stellar thread by PPC.....re: libido and birth control.....ENJOY!

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...lth&highlight=

[SlimmerMe]

The alpha male.....might become extinct......

The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.

Something to think about.......

[GotNoBlueMilk]

...imagine the dishes the neck rub the babysitting and still you hear about a headache....

geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee eeeeeeeeeeeez louiseeeeeeeeeeeeeee

Do what my wife does. After she has taken care of the kids, rubbed my neck, and done the dishes, she ignores my headache and demands sex anyway telling me I can be on bottom.

[meathead320]

The alpha male.....might become extinct......

The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.

Something to think about.......

Keep in mind that she is not getting preggers when on the pill, so all the submissive male genes only get dumped into unfertile vaginas.

Soon as she gets off the pill, her natural instincts kick back in, right as she is fertile again. Then she will cheat on her sumbissive boyfriend with a more agressive male, then just let her cuckolded boyfriend think its his kid.

This situation plays out FAR more often then most men would like to think.

[bass]

The alpha male.....might become extinct......

The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.

Something to think about.......

First thanks for posting the link to PPC thread, I love the title and can’t wait to read it with my wife!

besides my wife’s belief/faith she can't stand any kind of birth control, its either all natural or none! i agree with your remarks regarding strong men, strong men has nothing to do with being a cave man, a strong man is one who takes charge for his woman not over her, makes her feel she is always protected and cared for, a gentle giant if you will! what i am about to say next is a testimony as to why a cave man attitude is not what a woman look for! yesterday she woke up and was peeing blood, it scared the shit out of both of us, went to the doc, did some urine test then gave her anti biotic, she was miserable and scared as you can imagine, she had a kidney infection 3 weeks ago and the doc gave her anti biotic and the symptoms went away, but apparently didn't cure what was going on inside her, so i believe in the last 3 weeks or so her sex drive was effected by whatever is going on with her health. now the bleeding stopped and she feels much better. of course my immediate reaction was take charge of things and took care of her as if she was my child, basically get her dressed, put her in the car and take her to the doctor. she felt loved, pampered and secure! that my friends turned her on and she was allover me the next day, in other words she got very horney! of course no sex for now until all the results come back, i don't want to risk another infection or God knows what! a definition of a strong man is not being bossy, but rather protect, provide and be gentle in a manly way! Can you imagine how she would feel about me today if I used the cave man’s attitude?!

[zaggahamma]

Do what my wife does. After she has taken care of the kids, rubbed my neck, and done the dishes, she ignores my headache and demands sex anyway telling me I can be on bottom.

funny stuff...i was just commenting on the other thread...i pretty much stay sore...

i think meathead is giving some great advice for any too nice guys that are tuggin...

also agree with bc fvcking up a womans libido

[brad1986]

Ive never heard of a man that didnt masterbate....MAybe you cant teach an old dog new tricks lol just playin with ya

[PPC]

The alpha male.....might become extinct......

The more fertile the woman the more she is attracted to a stronger man. And when women are on birth control they lose this desire to be with a strong man since her natural selection process is blunted. The pill threw off this chemical instinct of choosing the right mate in many ways. Perhaps this is why men have decided to become less masculine since women on birth control/less hormones do not seek out the masculine man as much.

Something to think about.......

I think you are connecting some very interesting dots SM. What gives with all the metrosexuals? The breed of men generally is becoming less manly...and one has to wonder if BC does not in fact play a role with that. Of course, with males being the exception here LOL.

[PPC]

When I say Dominant male behavior, and not approval seeking, I obviously do not mean ALL the time. If you're in an LTR, and he is seen in as a leader, winner, etc... he certainly can get away with being nice now and then too. Just to avoid going so over the top, and so often with it, that he ends up in a "deed driven" as you put it, relationship, where she feels like she is the boss, holds all the cards, and is the "gatekeeper" to give him some sex one in a while (I can only image how boring that sex must be for her if its given as a reward).

You point out how these men are doing such nice things, and thier wife still says 'Thanks honey...I'm tired, think I'll just go to sleep now...you're so sweet., you say he has to let her know thats not ok, but HOW to adress that is the question.

Countless men have grown a backbone, but displayed it in the wrong way. It looks like sour grapes, which again is going to kill her attraction.

Him: "look honey, I've been working really hard lately to please you, I do ______, ___________, ______, and ___________, and you still don't ever seem interested in me, and you turn me down all the time when I ask for sex. This is not ok, I feel like I have been doing a lot for you".

Her : (filled with rage now) "YOU think you DESERVE sex with me, YOU call THAT going out of your way, YOU CALL THAT PLEASING ME, PFFTT You hardly do anything for me, and YOU EXPECT SEX!!, I don't even want to talk to you anymore, you really dissapoint me"

Him: "but but but honey that's not what I meant, I really think I have done a lot around h" she cuts him off with....

Her: "Ohh you've done enough allright, I'm done talking to you, I'm going out with the girls tonight, have a good evening by yourself"


Later that night, when out with the "girls" she has sex with a younger more attractive man, 100% guilt free, doesn't talk to her husband for 2 weeks, and only has cold fish sex with him once a month later, before stoping early do to her "headache". This may sound like a hyperbole, it is NOT. In many 10-20 year relationships things ARE that bad. Look at America's divorce rate.

My point is there is a WAY to go about adressing the problem, without sounding like sour grapes, or coming off as desperate, and simply using words to "talk" about the problem, in any way, simply illustrates his desperation, and desperation will only lower his value MORE in her eyes.

So what would I suggest he do?

1. Stop doing as many chores. Let stuff pile up a bit, and ignore her when she complains.

2. All that approaching her for affection in general (hugging kissing etc...) that likely he has been initiating 100% of the time, he needs to back off. Stop it alltogether.

3. If he is out of shape, get a gym membership. It gives him a reason to both get a better looking body, and two, gets him out more, being around less helps.

4. Get some newer and more in fashion clothes. Dress to look attractive whenever he leaves the house.

5. Answer his phone less, and not respond to all of her texts, and the ones he does, respong 10-20 minutes later, only sending 2/3rds as much as she does.

Now she is going to get really pissed. IMHO this is an instinctive challenge. She sees him becoming a more attractive man, but wants to take him down a notch.

She will try to get him to fall back into submissive behavior, by getting the ultimate submission out of him. The apology. She will try toget him to say he is sorry and beg her forgivness. This is the critical piont he MUST avoid. When she does he simply needs to say "hmmm.... you don't like it when I take care of myself or don't capitulate to all of your all your wants, I'm not a slave, and I will do what is good for me" Heck, not giving any responce but just an annoyed eyeroll (by now she has it coming after the YEARS she has been pulling this BS herself). Whatever you do, don't give in.

Now she is going to do some things you would not expect on paper. She will all of the sudden come around. Its the most counter intuitive thing, but you have demonstrated a lot of non-needness. If you are afraid to do this, that is half the problem. Men who are fear motivated are instantly sniffed out as unnatractive to women.

What a man doing such as the above 5 list, he is doing it showing her in ACTION that the way he has been treated is wrong. ACTION speeks FAR louder than his words can. She will think he is ready to move on, to replace her, to get another women, who treats him better and now easily could, or may already be doing so. Her natural instinct now kicks in to preserve the relationship by becoming the one to please her, she will oddly enough also be far more aroused by him. He is also displaying that he is an attractive man, and puitting her in a possition to now work for his affection, and she will.

On paper it looks like that would never work, however its just one of those things that does. Guys, regardless of what they SAY, women are NOT, logical in the way we are. You know 2+2=4, SHE thinks "how do I feel about 2+2?"

Okay, I hear you. Actually you're right. But it can go the other way too. What if a man has low T, his wife needs it and he's just not interested? My husband and I have gone through both sides of the scenerio (he's fifteen years older than I am). We've really had to stretch ourselves to get through some of this....but it's been worth it. It doesn't help when the femal goes alpha on the male. I have come to believe that the lower desire (LD) partner should not rule the sex life. Sex life will be sadly lacking if that is the case and that is not great for either partner, even if one is just fine with it.

So my opinion is...yes hormone replacement helps greatly...but mindset and attitude is huge. The topic needs to be addressed and firmly (yet lovingly) pushed until things change. I think the high desire parnter should say what is the least sex he or she needs. The HD spouse may say....'I need atleast 5 times a weeK...can you meet those demands willingly and enthusiastically?

Maybe the LD partner will say...'I can totally do 3 times a week'...more than that I'll be open to sex but probably won't be initiating....Okay, we have a meeting of the minds. The number needs to be kept to as much as possible. But education on 'why sex is just plain good for us' is so important too, because it shouldn't be looked at as a chore by either partner...but rather something that always benefits our minds, bodies and cores of our relationships.

So yeah...if this sort of thing is suggested by the HD partner and dismissed or not kept to by the LD partner...one would think a bit of your 'game plan' could go a long way...we would hope. Action must come into play at some point. I think we sort of agree with one another. You're right that a lot of 10-20 year relationships are in shambles.

[SlimmerMe]

Bass......I love....we women....love a gentle giant. Your description was very well said and I agree.

Your wife is a very lucky woman.

[SlimmerMe]

I think you are connecting some very interesting dots SM. What gives with all the metrosexuals? The breed of men generally is becoming less manly...and one has to wonder if BC does not in fact play a role with that. Of course, with males being the exception here LOL.

They have done studies on this which I am sure you have heard about. It has given risen to the metro-sexual. Whenever women pick (and we do the pickin') the weaker man, then the man follows suit and loses a lot of his masculine traits. It even determines the selection process which normally women have ingrained in their dna to pick a man whose genes will be best for her to create a healthy baby but with the interference of the pill this distorts things so she does not pick who she normally would pick. And when the female does not pick the right man then the relationship is destined for......well....you know the rest of the story. We all do. Nagging. Bossy. Nothing pleases her. She wants to change him in every which a way she can. She is disappointed. She is frustrated. She doesn't trust. She becomes someone the man cannot stand to be around because she takes it out on him for making a bad choice.

[meathead320]

Okay, I hear you. Actually you're right. But it can go the other way too. What if a man has low T, his wife needs it and he's just not interested? My husband and I have gone through both sides of the scenerio (he's fifteen years older than I am). We've really had to stretch ourselves to get through some of this....but it's been worth it. It doesn't help when the femal goes alpha on the male. I have come to believe that the lower desire (LD) partner should not rule the sex life. Sex life will be sadly lacking if that is the case and that is not great for either partner, even if one is just fine with it.

So my opinion is...yes hormone replacement helps greatly...but mindset and attitude is huge. The topic needs to be addressed and firmly (yet lovingly) pushed until things change. I think the high desire parnter should say what is the least sex he or she needs. The HD spouse may say....'I need atleast 5 times a weeK...can you meet those demands willingly and enthusiastically?

Maybe the LD partner will say...'I can totally do 3 times a week'...more than that I'll be open to sex but probably won't be initiating....Okay, we have a meeting of the minds. The number needs to be kept to as much as possible. But education on 'why sex is just plain good for us' is so important too, because it shouldn't be looked at as a chore by either partner...but rather something that always benefits our minds, bodies and cores of our relationships.

So yeah...if this sort of thing is suggested by the HD partner and dismissed or not kept to by the LD partner...one would think a bit of your 'game plan' could go a long way...we would hope. Action must come into play at some point. I think we sort of agree with one another. You're right that a lot of 10-20 year relationships are in shambles.

This is very true, and I think I mentioned it earlier, but it is worth re-stating, so I bolded your mention of it. For anything sexual to work both partners need the healthy levels of hormones.

Learning more about the real behavioral dynamics of sexual attraction can do a lot of good in long term relationships, but can't do any good if one partner is so low on the correct hormones that they simply cannot be aroused by any means.

[SlimmerMe]

This is very true, and I think I mentioned it earlier, but it is worth re-stating, so I bolded your mention of it. For anything sexual to work both partners need the healthy levels of hormones.

Learning more about the real behavioral dynamics of sexual attraction can do a lot of good in long term relationships, but can't do any good if one partner is so low on the correct hormones that they simply cannot be aroused by any means.

This is why there has to be a level playing field to begin with so both parties have that part down.... so the next part is communication and getting along!

[lovbyts]

This is why there has to be a level playing field to begin with so both parties have that part down.... so the next part is communication and getting along!

God that always sounds so good, simple and makes sense but it's amazing how many people will agree with that, say that's what they want and how they are but when it comes to doing it all communications are gone, only how they think/feel maters, common sense and logic are no where to be found and it seems that they love to argue, fight and just plain make life hell. LOL

Reverse physiology;
I have always taken a different approach to the sex thing. I have no idea what made me think of it but I have done it since GF #1 30 years ago and it has worked with every one so far. Most women are insecure and have to feel wanted, desired at all times. It's OK for them to make excuses or turn down a guy but when you play the same game back watch out, they will work OT trying to make sure you are interested. With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested. You have to keep it up every once in a while. Yes it's tough for most guys. Another thing I do to mix it up is once in a while have a good/long sex cession but don't cum, dont finish. Tell her it's OK, you are fine as long as she is pleased and you dont NEED to finish. Again to most women if you dont come they feel they have failed and will work harder to make sure you do from then on. Again you need to do it every few months.

It has worked like a charm with everyone and for years on end with the same person/people. Also it doesn't hurt to have GOOD oral skills.

[JD250]

Great thread, When I think back to my lowest mental and physical point before TRT I remember wanting to have sex but not really caring enough to actually do it, I am going to ask my wife what was going on in her mind when I was like that, I guess I have never revisited that time frame and asked what she thought, could be interesting.

Since then I've lost 40 lbs, am energetic, work harder, do more fun things, feel great and several times a week grab her by the hair (gently) give her a long kiss and inform her that I'm going to take her in the bedroom and nail her to which she smiles and leads the way, the funny thing about all this is that after I was on TRT for a couple months she came to me asking a hundred questions about womens hormones and now she is on BHRT, Like you said SM...."a level playing field" now we literally can talk about anything without a fear or concern of hurt feelings I believe because we are both in such a good mental state, it's eliminated so many problems or sticking points in our relationship. I don't feel the NEED to play any games with her, although I believe we all do from time to time, we both want it, sometimes its me being a caveman sometimes its me being a real gentleman sometimes it's her telling me that we're going in the bedroom for a nice long ride, that's my favorite. LOL

I would've NEVER believed any of this was possible a year ago, I had no idea how bad of shape my hormones were nor did I think about hers being out of whack, but I can honestly say, even with the high cost of mine, I have zero regrets, and a freakin boner every morning, I mean seriously, how awesome is it to wake up in the morning and that damn thing is hard enough to cut glass. Pretty freakin awesome if you ask me!! And I'm guessing that if my wife wouldn't be embarrassed to death about talking about it with people she doesn't know that she would tell you it's pretty freakin awesome to feel the way she does now, and to enjoy sex this way again, and she does.


I said all that to say this.....What SM and Meathead said about a level playing field is one of the most profound things listed in this thread, it will make everything else in a relationship that much easier, good stuff.

Did I mention a boner you could cut glass with? Awesome!!

[big_ron]

God that always sounds so good, simple and makes sense but it's amazing how many people will agree with that, say that's what they want and how they are but when it comes to doing it all communications are gone, only how they think/feel maters, common sense and logic are no where to be found and it seems that they love to argue, fight and just plain make life hell. LOL

Reverse physiology;
I have always taken a different approach to the sex thing. I have no idea what made me think of it but I have done it since GF #1 30 years ago and it has worked with every one so far. Most women are insecure and have to feel wanted, desired at all times. It's OK for them to make excuses or turn down a guy but when you play the same game back watch out, they will work OT trying to make sure you are interested. With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested. You have to keep it up every once in a while. Yes it's tough for most guys. Another thing I do to mix it up is once in a while have a good/long sex cession but don't cum, dont finish. Tell her it's OK, you are fine as long as she is pleased and you dont NEED to finish. Again to most women if you dont come they feel they have failed and will work harder to make sure you do from then on. Again you need to do it every few months.

It has worked like a charm with everyone and for years on end with the same person/people. Also it doesn't hurt to have GOOD oral skills.

Oh my i agree with this! my EX use to turn me down ALOT! she had crohns disease and her meds made her libido down, but i think she played on it as an excuse.
same old things, she didnt want me, but my other girl friends couldnt understand why. i mean im a juice head right :P even tho i wanted sex one night, i turned her down! OH and boy was their a fight, she cracked it.
girls are not use to being turned down. im single now and do it all the time!! its an attraction switch, it wasnt but just yesterday i was txting a girl and she said all guys are easy, i turned her down, and now she wants it bad!! say NO and get more! as far as being single dont act totally not interested in them, but dont be a typical male, you can still be sexual, jst not sleazy, dont give away what u want.

[PPC]

Since then I've lost 40 lbs, am energetic, work harder, do more fun things, feel great and several times a week grab her by the hair (gently) give her a long kiss and inform her that I'm going to take her in the bedroom and nail her to which she smiles and leads the way,.......we both want it, sometimes its me being a caveman sometimes its me being a real gentleman sometimes it's her telling me that we're going in the bedroom for a nice long ride, that's my favorite. LOL
.

I love what you said here. That is the way it is with us now. We have the level playing field...but it takes quite a bit of work for both partners to get to that state sometimes. One has to often lay down their pride, egos and selfishness to get themselves 'fixed'. And that road can also be a rocky one....and sometimes a long one. There needs to be determination and grit by both partners to say....'at all costs...let's get our sex life back.'

Often when one is low T, they don't realize there is anything wrong with them...it is only when the change occurs inside them that they realize they way they felt before was odd, they realize the new reality is the 'right' one. And we all know that some partners with low hormones don't even want to hear about replacing them. One parter will get tuned up, need more sex and it's excruciatingly painful to them that their partner remains uninterested...in both sex and in addressing the reasons why. It's much worse than before for these people. But even still, I know people who have used BHRT and they are still refusers/avoiders and will only want to have sex when the feel the genital itch....which for some, even tuned up on hormones, is not as often as you'd think. They don't have the mindset to pour on sexuality to their partner selflissly, they just offer a trickle here and there when they get too horny to contain it. It's sad.

[PPC]

. With every one at some point early on when the GF or wife wanted to play I turned them down. Not tonight dear, I'm just not into it or feel like it. To a woman this is devastating. You have to keep assuring her it's not her but also no there is nothing wrong with you physically and you can easily get it up, you just dont want to. She will still think it's her and try to make you more interested.)

Your approach is interesting. When my husband's T dropped after he turned 50...I experienced this. Yes...devastating. I believe this is why I feel so compelled to educate women who avoid sex or act uninterested....I have experienced the reverse...probably the hardest time in my life. So I empathize with men who constantly endure this. Being turned down quite consistently for a few years is a huge blow to every part of a woman. He would say it wasn't me...that he still thought me beautiful etc, but how could I believe that when there was almost nothing I could to arouse him and watching TV was way more interesting than sex?

Now, he's horny and always good to go but we actually got our sex life puttering up again before he got tuned up on T. I finally got through to him how much the lack of sex hurt me and said...even if he couldn't get it up...we needed to be sexual with one another atleast twice a week. I took the pressure off his performance and we did other things....got real good at other things than traditional intercourse. Even a man who has trouble getting hard can still please his partner if he learns to be unselfish and lay down his ideals that if he doesn't have an erection, i's not worth doing anything. A woman can do the same without a high libido. Then, once hormones are tuned up it's like wow....we've had all the hard and sometimes ugly conversations, we've given when we thought we had nothing to give. We have fought tooth and nail for our sex life...now this is fun and awesome!

[APIs]

Wow good stuff & very true. This midset could actually save a lot of marriages if applied I bet...

[bass]

Ive never heard of a man that didnt masterbate....MAybe you cant teach an old dog new tricks lol just playin with ya

i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!

[zaggahamma]

i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!

i wasnt sure who he was referring to i just ignored it

[brad1986]

i didn't say i never masturbated, after having real sex for so many years masturbating is not satisfying, in fact it makes me want the real thing more because i simply did get enough! so thats why i said i am not into it!

ohh haha i understand! sorry man I was kinda confused when i read that.

[SlimmerMe]

Gettin' hot in here?

or is it just me? ...........?..........?...........?............?

[bass]

Gettin' hot in here?

or is it just me? ...........?..........?...........?............?

yea be careful SM, there are bunch of old Horney fogies in here! LOL! well if you girls keep chiming in like this, this thread may become the most popular one and it may become a sticky! no pun intended!

[PPC]

yea be careful SM, there are bunch of old Horney fogies in here! LOL! well if you girls keep chiming in like this, this thread may become the most popular one and it may become a sticky! no pun intended!

Chuckle!

[rebelstate]

my wife and i are almost the same age, 51. normally sex drive at this age slows down for both men and women, but now that i am on TRT we are no match! basically i want it all the time and she doesn't, masturbation is out of the question, i am just not into that!

sorry guy but i am going to call bullsh*t on the part of masturbation, my advise would be to either lower your dose or just wait until your e-2 starts climbing and kills it for you,that sex drive want last unless you learn how to tweek the test/est ratio.............

[zaggahamma]

sorry guy but i am going to call bullsh*t on the part of masturbation, my advise would be to either lower your dose or just wait until your e-2 starts climbing and kills it for you,that sex drive want last unless you learn how to tweek the test/est ratio.............

huh

made sense to me

[bass]

huh

made sense to me

really?!

[zaggahamma]

really?!

your post did.... maybe quoting rebel made it look like i endorsed his...i meant...what you said is how i pretty much feel but my woman is in her 20's tee hee hee hee

[bass]

got it! glad i'm not the only one!

[JD250]

Wait a minute....your woman is in her twenties? You stud!!!

[boundup]

I was just thinking about this thread this morning when I woke up with a raging boner and my g/f was all pushing up on me. She just dropped her panties and said "do it!"... I got a little scared. I'm sorry bro.

[sirupate]

I was just thinking about this thread this morning when I woke up with a raging boner and my g/f was all pushing up on me. She just dropped her panties and said "do it!"... I got a little scared. I'm sorry bro.

I think the key to this response is the g/f part. Not sure a wife of 25 years would be as interested....well, maybe on a weekend morning.

[boundup]

I think the key to this response is the g/f part. Not sure a wife of 25 years would be as interested....well, maybe on a weekend morning.

I'll report back in 25 years.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

A wife of 25 years definately should be interested in sex! Mine definately is. Or did you mean a marriage of 25 years?

[bass]

i think he meant a marriage of 25!

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Yeah, I was joking. Should have put a in there

[lifeforce0019]

well, its been 3 days and no jumping on my face yet! trying to stay busy doing work around the house until the time comes! damn i think i wont last more than 2 seconds!

You could always "slip" her 5 to10 mgs of your leftover anavar ! Should raise her libido with little or no sides! Vitamin "V" for women!