My labs

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 04:50 PM

I've been lurking and learning a ton from you all. I'm 40 yrs old, in the gym a lot but have always been very prone to put on fat. I'm on the verge of starting trt, as I have many other symptoms of low T. I am interested in T, HCG and peptides as I begin, but wanted to get opinions. Thanks!
Test serum:529, T free 12.5, estradiol 58.9.

**bass** · 05-21-2012, 04:51 PM

post your entire blood work with ranges. welcome here!

**kelkel** · 05-21-2012, 05:15 PM

^^^What the wise one above said. Include thyroid panels if possible. If that's a sensitive E test result just lowering your E would make a nice difference. Post up and welcome Stanley!

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 05:49 PM

Here it is:
Chloride, serum 103. 97-108
Co2 23 20-32
Calcium. 9.4. 8.7-10.2
Protein serum. 7.1. 6-8.5
Albumin serum. 4.4. 3.5-5.5
Globulin. 2.7. 1.5-4.5
A/g ratio. 1.6. 1.1-2.5
Bilirubin total. 0.6. 0-1.2
Alkaline phosphatase. 56. 25-150
AST. 24. 0-40
ALT. 31. 0-55
Cholesterol total. 198. 100-199
Triglyceride. 69. 0-149
HDL cholesterol. 70. >39
VLDL cholesterol. 14. 5-40
LDL cholesterol. 114. 0-99
LDL/HDL ratio. 1.6. 0-3.6
Testosterone serum. 529. 348-1197
Free testosterone. 12.5. 6.8-21.5
Thyroxine. 1.25. 0.82-1.77
TSH 1.29. 0.45-4.5
LH. 2.2. 1.7-8.6
Estradiol. 58.9. 7.6-42.6
Prostate spec antigen. 0.6. 0-4.0
WBC. 4.6. 4-10.5
RBC. 4.88. 4.1-5.6
Hemoglobin. 14.9. 12.5-17
Hematocrit. 45.3. 36-50
MCV. 93. 80-98
MCH. 30.5. 27-34
MCHC. 32.9. 32-36
RDW. 14.2. 11.7-15
Platelets. 230. 140-415
Neutrophils. 39. 40-74
Lymph. 43. 14-46
Monocytes. 10. 4-13
EOs. 7. 0-7
Basos. 1. 0-3
Neutrophils absolute. 1.8. 1.8-7.8
Lymph absolute. 2.0. 0.7-4.5
Monocytes absol. 0.5. 0.1-1
EOs absol. 0.3. 0-0.4
Baso. Absolute. 0.1. 0-0.2
Glucose. 92. 65-99
BUN. 16. 6-24
Creatine. 1.02. 0.76-1.27
EGFR. 92. >59
Bun/creative ratio. 16. 9-20
Sodium serum. 141. 134-144
Potassium serum. 5. 3.5-5.2

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 05:57 PM

Didn't post as neatly as I'd hoped. Sorry. And thank you! I'm very excited to get started!

**zaggahamma** · 05-21-2012, 06:35 PM

never seen high that high a total T and high e2 pre TRT

your lipids are amazing as well ...wow hdl of 70

do you have a doc yet, what does he suggest

welcome

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 06:47 PM

Thanks jpkman! I couldn't get anywhere with my longtime physician so I've been working with Todd, who seems very cool! I'm waiting to get feedback on where to start based on these lab results I got today.

**zaggahamma** · 05-21-2012, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by StanleyB

Thanks jpkman! I couldn't get anywhere with my longtime physician so I've been working with Todd, who seems very cool! I'm waiting to get feedback on where to start based on these lab results I got today.

well i've seen guys with a lot lower levels than yours have a hard time getting on trt whether it be physician or insurance difficulty

i guess the free test isnt all that but its in range

i know an anti aging clinic is usually a bit more liberal if that helps

could you describe a lil more about why u think you need trt...other than prone to gaining fat...

have you had your sugar tested throughout the day as well as fasted...i noticed the one u posted was at 92 and assuming thats fasting

thyroid looks good as well

hows diet, stress level, how fat is fat?

**kelkel** · 05-21-2012, 07:40 PM

Only thing I see as odd is your LH level is very low. Do you have past BW showing that level to compare it to? A pituitary MRI may be in order to rule out any issues there. Op what is your height, weight, bodyfat percentage approximately? The more fat you have the more aromatase enzyme is produced = higher E levels and lower T levels. Also be great to see your shbg level to see how much your binding.

I would think your best course of action right now may be to improve your diet (see Nutrition Forum) and exercise regimen. Ruling out a pituitary issue I suggest a course of action to lower your E to between 20-30. Doing so will greatly improve your T level. There are supplements out there that help lower E such as Chrysin, B6-also helps lower prolactin, or prescription with Adex. Also add in vit D as it will also improve your T level.

I would not jump on TRT at this point IMO. Do your research, add some appropriate supplements and change your lifestyle a bit and I'm sure you can make some positive changes that will affect your levels.

Good luck and welcome! Others will chime in as well!

**Brohim** · 05-21-2012, 07:40 PM

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I've been lurking and learning a ton from you all. I'm 40 yrs old, in the gym a lot but have always been very prone to put on fat. I'm on the verge of starting trt, as I have many other symptoms of low T. I am interested in T, HCG and peptides as I begin, but wanted to get opinions. Thanks!
Test serum:529, T free 12.5, estradiol 58.9.

You don't have low T. Free T is in range. But your estrogen is out of range. So might look into that first as it could be the culprit in your symptoms.

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 08:07 PM

I am 6'4", 235, lift hard with cardio and pretty strict with diet. BMW 25, low libido, depression, bit of gynomastia. U all have me thinking of doing what can to lower estrogen. If I'm not perfect with diet, even while lifting hard/cardio, fat accumulates fast. What bout hcg or hgh? Thanks!

**zaggahamma** · 05-21-2012, 08:13 PM

Originally Posted by stanleyb

i am 6'4", 235, lift hard with cardio and pretty strict with diet. bmw 25, low libido, depression, bit of gynomastia. U all have me thinking of doing what can to lower estrogen. If i'm not perfect with diet, even while lifting hard/cardio, fat accumulates fast. What bout hcg or hgh? Thanks!

wuts this

**zaggahamma** · 05-21-2012, 08:16 PM

Originally Posted by stanleyb

i am 6'4", 235, lift hard with cardio and pretty strict with diet. bmw 25, low libido, depression, bit of gynomastia. U all have me thinking of doing what can to lower estrogen. If i'm not perfect with diet, even while lifting hard/cardio, fat accumulates fast. What bout hcg or hgh? Thanks!

wuts this

**Brohim** · 05-21-2012, 08:18 PM

Bavarian Motor Works?

**Brohim** · 05-21-2012, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by StanleyB

I am 6'4", 235, lift hard with cardio and pretty strict with diet. BMW 25, low libido, depression, bit of gynomastia. U all have me thinking of doing what can to lower estrogen. If I'm not perfect with diet, even while lifting hard/cardio, fat accumulates fast. What bout hcg or hgh? Thanks!

High E can cause those symptoms. You should try to figure out why your body is making all that E2. The way to control e2 is using an AI such as liquidex.

**StanleyB** · 05-21-2012, 08:31 PM

Oops BMI. Thanks this helps!

**bass** · 05-22-2012, 10:52 AM

Originally Posted by jpkman

wuts this

he forgot to put the i after 25, bmw 25i, its a new model BMW makes now!

**bass** · 05-22-2012, 10:53 AM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Only thing I see as odd is your LH level is very low. Do you have past BW showing that level to compare it to? A pituitary MRI may be in order to rule out any issues there. Op what is your height, weight, bodyfat percentage approximately? The more fat you have the more aromatase enzyme is produced = higher E levels and lower T levels. Also be great to see your shbg level to see how much your binding.

I would think your best course of action right now may be to improve your diet (see Nutrition Forum) and exercise regimen. Ruling out a pituitary issue I suggest a course of action to lower your E to between 20-30. Doing so will greatly improve your T level. There are supplements out there that help lower E such as Chrysin, B6-also helps lower prolactin, or prescription with Adex. Also add in vit D as it will also improve your T level.

I would not jump on TRT at this point IMO. Do your research, add some appropriate supplements and change your lifestyle a bit and I'm sure you can make some positive changes that will affect your levels.

Good luck and welcome! Others will chime in as well!

excellent advice Kel, this is where i would start then go from there.

**StanleyB** · 05-25-2012, 08:40 AM

Thank you for the great advice. I believe I need to lower my estodiol. My arrive today and include testosterone , hcg , and an AI. This is what the doc suggested. Should I hold off on the testosterone and focus on lowering my E? What is the negative of getting my T into the upper 1/3 instead of the lower 1/3? Is this because there is the risk of increasing my E by taking inure T? I start today so I'd love input. Thanks again!

**kelkel** · 05-25-2012, 08:56 AM

If you lower your E to say between 20-30 you will see a substantial rise in your T levels without doing anything else. As stated, your levels are not that low. Avoid TRT until absolutely necessary. Nobody here really wants to give themselves all these shots for the rest of their lives. We'd rather have a naturally good level and you are almost there with a little tweaking.

If you go with just the adex start very low and titrate up based on bloodwork. Do not over-do it as crashing your E is very easy.

**StanleyB** · 05-25-2012, 09:03 AM

Great advice and I'll take it. Last question: what about the hcg ? I wouldn't mind a little fat loss help to go along with my diet/gym.

**zaggahamma** · 05-25-2012, 09:32 AM

hcg and fatloss is a MYTH/MISNOMER/FAD/FICTICIOUS FALACY

having your hormones at a better ratio should help with that

try the AI alone for a while and retest/take notice of how u feel/any luck with fat loss, then if you feel u need to use the testosterone then add that in later.....one thing at a time so you'll know what compound is doing what and/or producing any sides

please keep THIS thread updated

there are very few men your age with that high of test level and considering trt and also as patient enought to start with the AI alone at first

good luck

**StanleyB** · 05-25-2012, 10:04 AM

Awesome! Thank you. I will.

**ecdysone** · 05-25-2012, 02:52 PM

Good advice (as always!) posted above.

You seem genetically predisposed to produce estradiol, so you don't want to attempt to raise your testosterone without controlling the E2.

Most E2 is produced from subcutaneous fat metabolism of test, so that's the first area to work on. Might be all you have to do.

If that doesn't produce the desired levels (E2 <40), then, yes, you will need to resort to an AI.