Are these levels normal?

[applips]

Hey guys,

I posted a thread in steroid forum but it seems more like Low Test issue therefore reposting it here.

I have been suffering from ED and ZERO libido for almost 2 years now.

Depressed, no sex drive, no energy, emotional like a girl on PMS

Some of my test results came up few days ago as following and i wanna know what do you guys think as i want to take 3rd person's view other then my doctor.

	Result	Range
DHEAS	13.9 nmol/L	5.0 - 30.0
Androstenedione	4.2 nmol/L	1.0 - 10.7
Testosterone	122 pmol/L	100.0 - 720.0
DHT	2.1 pg/mL	2.0 - 10.0
Estradiol (E2)	12.0 pmol/L	1.0 - 6.0
Estrone (E1)	17.0 pg/mL	9.6 - 20.0
Testosterone/DHT Ratio	62.9 RATIO	10.0 - 350.0
Androstenedione/E1 Ratio	0.25 RATIO	0.05 - 1.10

More results are on the way

Cheers

[jasondd1]

I assume since you posted in steroid forum first you've cycled anabolics before? What kind of pct? how many cycles? When was your last cycle? Your numbers look low and worthy of trt to me(novice) But I'm wondering if an aggressive restart wouldn't be an option?

Hey guys,

I posted a thread in steroid forum but it seems more like Low Test issue therefore reposting it here.

I have been suffering from ED and ZERO libido for almost 2 years now.

Depressed, no sex drive, no energy, emotional like a girl on PMS

Some of my test results came up few days ago as following and i wanna know what do you guys think as i want to take 3rd person's view other then my doctor.

	Result	Range
DHEAS	13.9 nmol/L	5.0 - 30.0
Androstenedione	4.2 nmol/L	1.0 - 10.7
Testosterone	122 pmol/L	100.0 - 720.0
DHT	2.1 pg/mL	2.0 - 10.0
Estradiol (E2)	12.0 pmol/L	1.0 - 6.0
Estrone (E1)	17.0 pg/mL	9.6 - 20.0
Testosterone/DHT Ratio	62.9 RATIO	10.0 - 350.0
Androstenedione/E1 Ratio	0.25 RATIO	0.05 - 1.10

More results are on the way

Cheers

[applips]

I assume since you posted in steroid forum first you've cycled anabolics before? What kind of pct? how many cycles? When was your last cycle? Your numbers look low and worthy of trt to me(novice) But I'm wondering if an aggressive restart wouldn't be an option?

Hey Jason, no I never used steroids . I only had one injection of 250mg Test E or C which was given by my doctor when I was having a minor ED, he wanted to test out of this helps with the situation but that was all. I never used steroids.

That injection was about 22 months ago which should have recovered by now with no PCT.

In addition, I don't drink at all, I don't spoke, my diet is super clean and I exercise.

My doctor also says my E2 is high, Testosterones are low and also other stuff. He says I am young so first he would like me to use my body fix these problems before we can even think of trt. If that doesn't work then trt is the only option. I have no sex drive, no libido and terrible sex life for almost 2 years. This doctor is my last hope as previously any doctor I went to just had no idea what they are doing.

I am going to upgrade the thread with more information

[Moonjumper]

What are the ranges for the tests run?

[Simon1972]

very low.

You need investigation into why your test is low, have you had any issues in the past, existing or current health concerns. Current medication being taken etc. ???

Once thats been investigated id be looking at your thyroid, making sure those values are on track.

your dr would no doubt be looking at getting you on TRT, as your values warrant that. Also judging by your high E values would it be safe to say you are carrying some extra weight??
If thats the case, you would be looking at injectable trt, with an AI dosed at 2x a week starting at 50mg x 2 . But this is dependant on your other results .

I as Jason stated, i would also would be doing a htpa restart first, although with levels that low i doubt youd get a successful reaction.Still worth a try.

see your dr- see what he says, he may surprise you and do everything right.

keep us posted- it will take a while to get you dialled in, but its worth it.

[applips]

What are the ranges for the tests run?

Hey, sorry you lost me what do you mean by tests run?

[applips]

very low.

You need investigation into why your test is low, have you had any issues in the past, existing or current health concerns. Current medication being taken etc. ???

Once thats been investigated id be looking at your thyroid, making sure those values are on track.

your dr would no doubt be looking at getting you on TRT, as your values warrant that. Also judging by your high E values would it be safe to say you are carrying some extra weight??
If thats the case, you would be looking at injectable trt, with an AI dosed at 2x a week starting at 50mg x 2 . But this is dependant on your other results .

I as Jason stated, i would also would be doing a htpa restart first, although with levels that low i doubt youd get a successful reaction.Still worth a try.

see your dr- see what he says, he may surprise you and do everything right.

keep us posted- it will take a while to get you dialled in, but its worth it.

Thank you for looking into this Simon, and yes you are spot on, I do carry extra weight (hips and thighs mostly) although i have lost about 18KG in last few months with extra clean diet and hard work at the gym.

I dont have any health issues that i know off and i never been on any type of medication.

I just came back from my doctor and he wants me to try HTPA restart first before putting me on trt. He said you are still young to be on trt and hopefully we can bring you back without putting you on trt although there are 30% chances that it may work and he wants to take that chance. He prescribed me HCG and Arimidex for 6 weeks along with 2 other tablets which i am not sure what they are (Pharmacy didnt have them in stock so i am picking them up tomorrow and will post here)

He wants me to run this protocol for 6 weeks, get off everything for 2 weeks and then do another blood test.

I am finally getting some help from a doctor after 2 years of suffering, it tells you how hard it is to get help for low test issues.

[Simon1972]

high E is related to ezyme found in fat converting T to E.

the vicious cirle is that low T can cause high fat, and usually you have to lower your food intake to accomadate- this then cascades and cause all types of sh!t to occur in your body, lowering your metabolism etc etc- hence the long road to recovery.

your dr seems on the right track. what are your doses of all the drugs he prescribed?

[applips]

high E is related to ezyme found in fat converting T to E.

the vicious cirle is that low T can cause high fat, and usually you have to lower your food intake to accomadate- this then cascades and cause all types of sh!t to occur in your body, lowering your metabolism etc etc- hence the long road to recovery.

your dr seems on the right track. what are your doses of all the drugs he prescribed?

Cheers Simon, Thanks for giving me confidence on my doctor He is my hope.

You are right in regards to the fat and vicious circle because when this issue started 2 years ago i had 9% bodyfat.

The dosages are the following for HCG and Arimidex

HCG 500iu - 3 times a week
Arimidex 0.5 tablet EOD

[kelkel]

I think your doctor is wrong, unless you have more BW you can post showing LH, FSH, full Thyroid Panel, Prolactin, Cortisol, etc. I say this as all you have now is BW showing low T, but nothing indicating the cause. Now your doc want's to throw HCG and Adex in the mix to band aid the problem. You do not know at this time if the issue is testicular or pituitary related. HCG over time is suppressive to Pituitary function. Unless your doctor is seeing abnormally elevated LH and FSH levels I don't follow his logic.

I have no issue with very low dose Adex but that would be all until more thorough BW is reviewed. Right now you have zero clue what's causing this. It could be primary or secondary issues or a combination. It could be pathological or trauma related.

Know that HCG by itself is a form of TRT. Adex at the dose prescribed will crush your estrogen rather quickly. It's more than goes do on a normal 500mg per week test cycle. The accuracy of your estrogen tests also comes into question. If it's not an E2 Sensitive Assay odds are it reads higher than what you actually are. Sometimes very much so.

[applips]

I think your doctor is wrong, unless you have more BW you can post showing LH, FSH, full Thyroid Panel, Prolactin, Cortisol, etc. I say this as all you have now is BW showing low T, but nothing indicating the cause. Now your doc want's to throw HCG and Adex in the mix to band aid the problem. You do not know at this time if the issue is testicular or pituitary related. HCG over time is suppressive to Pituitary function. Unless your doctor is seeing abnormally elevated LH and FSH levels I don't follow his logic.

I have no issue with very low dose Adex but that would be all until more thorough BW is reviewed. Right now you have zero clue what's causing this. It could be primary or secondary issues or a combination. It could be pathological or trauma related.

Know that HCG by itself is a form of TRT. Adex at the dose prescribed will crush your estrogen rather quickly. It's more than goes do on a normal 500mg per week test cycle. The accuracy of your estrogen tests also comes into question. If it's not an E2 Sensitive Assay odds are it reads higher than what you actually are. Sometimes very much so.

Hi KelKel, thanks for your reply. More results are coming (this friday) i am not sure if they are for full Thyroid Panel, Prolactin, Cortisol, etc but they are for chlostrol, blood suger etc for sure. My urine was also taken for lever function i guess.

I am confused too about my levels and dont know when and where i fuked up.

I dont drink, i dont smoke. To me this doctor is the only one who actually acknowlegded my issue, others said my levels are in normal "given range"(100-720). Another specilist did full panel tests before this and told me that i am healthy as horse and if i have ED the cause of my ED is unknown and i am one of 40% of the people whos cause for ED is unknown (and closed the case). I also visited psychologist for 6 months and found no help what so ever. I found this new doctor after 2 years of suffering and pain. Currently i am depressed and i am not sure how long i can keep my relationship up with my partner (who deserves better then this).
I am so frustrated. Its been almost 2 years . I cry, i am in so much pain. I want this to end. I wanna go back to where i was 2 years ago , a normal guy and full of libido. I have lost myself.

Is there a way to monitor my E2 levels for 6 weeks?

What should i do Kelkel,

[jasondd1]

Listen to kel. We need to see all the blood work to see if that plan is solid. It might very well be but it's still the mechanic way of doctoring. Lets try this nope, maybe its the alternator, nope could be the heads, nope i bet it's the transmission.

[applips]

Listen to kel. We need to see all the blood work to see if that plan is solid. It might very well be but it's still the mechanic way of doctoring. Lets try this nope, maybe its the alternator, nope could be the heads, nope i bet it's the transmission.

Hey asondd, yes, i am going to wait for my other results. Its just couple of days (friday).

Until then i am not starting this protocol

I will post results as soon as they are available to me.

[kelkel]

Until then i am not starting this protocolI will post results as soon as they are available to me.

Good. Lets hope the necessary items are being checked. Remember, many doc's don't know hormones as they're not really trained in them in med school. Unless they take the interest or further their education with an A4M Certification odds are some of the guys here may know more.

Re labs there are private labs where you can request and have your own BW pulled very inexpensively. Assuming you're in the states although some states do not allow this. Take a look at discounted labs (dot) com as well as private md labs (dot) com. Remember what I said that without an initial E2 Sensitive Assay you are working of potentially flawed numbers. I think the E2 Sens Assay is about $40 at one of the locations I mentioned above. If you were to implement adex I'd start at a very low dose.

So many things can cause low T and step one is full BW. It gives you a direction to look in. Think of it this way. If BW shows an elevated LH and FSH level yet you have low T then the issue is testical related. Your hypothalamus / pituitary are working OT trying to stimulate you downstream to no avail. At this point you'd want to look into an ultrasound of your testicals to check for varicoceles, etc. If LH and FSH are low and T is low then the problem is pituitary suppression. You then need to track down what's causing it. Such as:

Hypothyroidism is a main cause of hypogonadism.
Pathologies (pituitary tumors) will shut you down and can be indicated by elevated prolactin levels.
Cortisol issues can effect you both ways, pituitary and testicularly.
Trauma to your head or testicals. The issues can have a delayed on-set as well.
And more...

Try and be patient and be vocal about what you want done. Don't settle for just "you have low T" as you want to know why. Push for this. In the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum is a solid list of BW. Check it out please.

[applips]

Good. Lets hope the necessary items are being checked. Remember, many doc's don't know hormones as they're not really trained in them in med school. Unless they take the interest or further their education with an A4M Certification odds are some of the guys here may know more.

Re labs there are private labs where you can request and have your own BW pulled very inexpensively. Assuming you're in the states although some states do not allow this. Take a look at discounted labs (dot) com as well as private md labs (dot) com. Remember what I said that without an initial E2 Sensitive Assay you are working of potentially flawed numbers. I think the E2 Sens Assay is about $40 at one of the locations I mentioned above. If you were to implement adex I'd start at a very low dose.

So many things can cause low T and step one is full BW. It gives you a direction to look in. Think of it this way. If BW shows an elevated LH and FSH level yet you have low T then the issue is testical related. Your hypothalamus / pituitary are working OT trying to stimulate you downstream to no avail. At this point you'd want to look into an ultrasound of your testicals to check for varicoceles, etc. If LH and FSH are low and T is low then the problem is pituitary suppression. You then need to track down what's causing it. Such as:

Hypothyroidism is a main cause of hypogonadism.
Pathologies (pituitary tumors) will shut you down and can be indicated by elevated prolactin levels.
Cortisol issues can effect you both ways, pituitary and testicularly.
Trauma to your head or testicals. The issues can have a delayed on-set as well.
And more...

Try and be patient and be vocal about what you want done. Don't settle for just "you have low T" as you want to know why. Push for this. In the Finding A Doc sticky at the top of this forum is a solid list of BW. Check it out please.

Thank you so much KelKel for your detailed reply. I totally agree in finding the cause of low test levels, thank you for putting me on the right direction as it all makes sense. Its just that after 2 years of suffering you have no patience left in you. You are also right about doctors not having knowledge of these types of issues and that's why it took me 2 years to find someone who actually sat down with me and understood my problem and didn't tell me that my levels was all good and closed the case. I am from Australia, I know in America you guys have lots of help available for these type of issues but being in Australia I can tell you that getting help for low test is so difficult that its nearly impossible. There are no private labs (that I know off which can do blood tests without doctors letter, which is fine but when I go to a doctor they tell me I am all good and there is no need for further tests). It was only this doctor who actually did my tests again (not sure if all required one as you said) and told me that my levels are low as for 2 years I thought my levels were normal as per other doctors). KelKel I wish I can get any help or a proper doctor regardless if I have to travel to other cities. I tried calling few clinics (I found online) but they more seemed to be interested getting money from clients by providing so called homemade testosterone patches which does nothing for you and costs about 2,000 a year with no blood tests etc.

I will post my results on Friday and till than I am holding off everything.

I would really really appreciate if you could give your expert opinion on my results. I will try the lab tomorrow again, they said it should be ready by Thursday or Friday so figurescrossed for Thursday

[applips]

Got other two pills i was talking about, they are the following

Clomiphene 25mg EOD
7-keto dhea 25mg daily

[Simon1972]

Are you taking these now?

[applips]

Are you taking these now?

Hey Simon, i am supposed to take these but i am holding it off until my other test results. I will post the results as soon as i have them.

[Mr.BB]

Totally agree with kel here, was about to write that hcg with tht set of lab tests is strange.

You forgot to mention in your other thread that you had high bodyfat, it is important to explain the e2 as simon already mentioned.

The only thing I would do with the labs you showed would be the arimidex for the high e2, but you really need full panel to see the whole picture.
The labs in my country are the opposite, they take more time for the hormones lol

In your opinion whats the reason for the extra bodyfat and how many hours of sleep are you having? Also do you get very sleepy after dinner/supper?

[Moonjumper]

Hey, sorry you lost me what do you mean by tests run?

Was just curious what all had been pulled. However I was on mobile so it might not have been displaying everything as far as ranges go. I see they are above now.

[applips]

Ø

Totally agree with kel here, was about to write that hcg with tht set of lab tests is strange.

You forgot to mention in your other thread that you had high bodyfat, it is important to explain the e2 as simon already mentioned.

The only thing I would do with the labs you showed would be the arimidex for the high e2, but you really need full panel to see the whole picture.
The labs in my country are the opposite, they take more time for the hormones lol

In your opinion whats the reason for the extra bodyfat and how many hours of sleep are you having? Also do you get very sleepy after dinner/supper?

Thanks BB for your reply. Apologies, didn't know it was important information, now I know thanks to Simon In my view the basic reason I had the body fat increase was due to the consumption of trashy calories intake after my injury and ED issues. And not getting help, depressed me to the point that I just let myself go. I also blamed ED for my injury as the injury was caused by me not paying attention when training and it back fired. On a positive note though I have dropped my body fat back to 22% as off 2 weeks ago and it is continually coming further down (when looking at myself, when high in body fat, I had more fat on my hips, thighs and stomach, lower body then upper) - I still got fat on my thighs but stomach is getting flatter on daily basis and hips have gone in now where previously they were popping out).

The only thing I have noticed after reducing BF is my nipples, i have gyno in its initial stages which previously i thought was just chest fat. But after reducing body fat now I can see my pointy nipples (not worst but its there and they burn)

I get around 7 to 8 hours sleep, No I don't get sleepy after dinner etc, sometimes I have sleep issues but its like once in couple of month I may not be able to sleep the whole night but its very rare. I usually sleep between 11:30 and 12:30 and get up between 7:30 and 8:00

My quality of sleep is OK, not what I had before, like 2 years ago I would sleep like no tomorrow. I am using fitbit to track my sleep activities and it seems normal to me.

Lol labs here are pretty fast, 3 or 4 days but apparently they have a huge backlog due to the holidays.

On the other hand, in my doctor's defense, he seems genuinely interested in finding the cause of my low levels and he clearly told me that trt should be our last spot when we have no other choice and as my levels have been down for almost 2 years or more and the dose of hCG will not cause any issue and Arimidex is there to help you with E2 and its for 6 weeks.

I am interested to find other solutions then injecting testosterones for life which is not easy. I had to travel for work and taking all meds with me will just be painful.

Called my doctor and they still haven't received the results and advisedd me to check back next week

[applips]

Was just curious what all had been pulled. However I was on mobile so it might not have been displaying everything as far as ranges go. I see they are above now.

No worries mate, cheers for the reply

[applips]

Hey Guys,

I got my test results back as following

	Result	Range
DHEAS	13.9 nmol/L	5.0 - 30.0
Androstenedione	4.2 nmol/L	1.0 - 10.7
Testosterone	122 pmol/L	100.0 - 720.0
DHT	2.1 pg/mL	2.0 - 10.0
Estradiol (E2)	12.0 pmol/L	1.0 - 6.0
Estrone (E1)	17.0 pg/mL	9.6 - 20.0
Testosterone/DHT Ratio	62.9 RATIO	10.0 - 350.0
Androstenedione/E1 Ratio	0.25 RATIO	0.05 - 1.10

	Result	Range
Sodium	139 nmol/L	135 - 145
Potassium	4.3 nmol/L	3.5 - 5.2
Chloride	100 nmol/L	95 - 110
Bicarbonate	22 nmol/L	22 - 32
Urea(E2)	5.0 nmol/L	3.5 - 8.0
Creatinine	97 umol/L	60 - 110
Calcium/DHT Ratio	2.25 nmol/L	2.15 - 2.55
Adj. Ca.	2.25 nmol/L	2.15 - 2.55
Magnesium	0.82 nmol/L	0.70 - 1.10
Phosphate	0.97 nmol/L	0.75 - 1.50
T. Protein	79 g/L	60 - 82
Albumin	40 g/L	35 - 50
ALP	86 U/L	30 - 120
Bilirubin	4 umol / L	< 25
GGT	80 U/L	< 51
AST	21 U/L	< 41
ALT	55 U/L	< 51

	Result	Range
THS - Thyroid Stimulation Horm	1.55 mIU/L	0.50 - 5.0
Glucose (Fasting)	5.0 nmol/L	1Fasting (3.0 - 5..4)
Total Chol.	5.6 nmol/L	< 5.6
HDL Chol.	1.0 nmol/L	> 1.0
LDL	2.4 nmol/L	< 2.5
Triglyceride	2.7 nmol/L	< 2.0

The Following tests were taken today
Androgen Studies
FSH
LH and Prolactin

In regards to GGT doctor thinks that it may have caused by the antibiotics he gave me and i was on those tablets when my blood was taken as there is no other reason of GGT to raise as i dont drink or smoke or anything.

Please provide your valuable advise

[Simon1972]

interesting results, update that last post with your FSH and LH when they arrive,

what has your dr said about your results so far?

[applips]

interesting results,

Interesting in negative way or possitve?

update that last post with your FSH and LH when they arrive,

what has your dr said about your results so far?

Wow, Excellent video thanks Simon

My doctor wants me to start the protocol as i was supposed to start as of two weeks ago. I had a chat with him about the finding the cause and he had a good grip on the topic. I dont remember his exact words but his view was that this protocol will also help identify the issue. He also told me that what i am thinking is all normal and he will never even think of putting me on trt until we have no other option left. He also talked me through in details for Arimidex as he said its a tricky drug and getting exact dose can be tricky and keep a close eye on how i am feeling while on arimidex and we may do a blood test after 3 weeks in to see if dose adjustment is required but he is hoping to see some posstive results at the end of 6 weeks cycle.

He also checked my chest, my puffy nipples. He says its not gyno i am so happy about that although i have extremly puffy and sensetive nipples which he thinks arimidex will help with.

Just to get a 2nd opinion, i went to another doctor and told him that i was prescribed these meds and what he thinks? After looking at the prescription and checking his computer his question to me was "Why are you using these meds to lose weight, you are not fat". I told him that NO its not for losing weight but for low testosterones and ED. Then he looks at my results and tells me that they are in certified range and he is not a specialist and he will have to refer me to a speicialist but he cannot refer me to a specialist until the level goes lower then 100.

It reminded me of all the pain i went through when i was trying to find a doctor to help me. So i got out of there and promised myself that i will never ever go back to these GPs again. So which leaves me back to my actual doctor. He is the only one in this whole town so if i lose him i will never get help.

.

[Simon1972]

interesting in bad way..... your T is low, your E is high, but from what you are saying it sounds like your dr is doing as well as can be expected, especially in Australia.
Its refreshing when you find a dr that is willing to help, and work with you- i would really persevere with him and keep your relationship freindly- avoid the need to be overly pushy as you are from a small town and drs are hard to come by.
Thats something most on these forums dont understand, Australia is Backward- but sometimes you get that Gem of a dr willing to help.

Follow your drs lead.
arimidex 0.5 EOD seems high and yes you will crash your E on that dose.

id hate to go against drs orders , but maybe talk to him ,if you could start of slow first 0.25 EOD then draw bloods and adjust from there. Tell him you dont want to go full tilt and rather ease into it. ( this make you look like less of a druggy too !)

if he keeps on top of it all, he can always adjust dosages- im sure with him and (covertly) us you can find that sweet spot.

[applips]

interesting in bad way..... your T is low, your E is high, but from what you are saying it sounds like your dr is doing as well as can be expected, especially in Australia.
Its refreshing when you find a dr that is willing to help, and work with you- i would really persevere with him and keep your relationship freindly- avoid the need to be overly pushy as you are from a small town and drs are hard to come by.
Thats something most on these forums dont understand, Australia is Backward- but sometimes you get that Gem of a dr willing to help.

Follow your drs lead.
arimidex 0.5 EOD seems high and yes you will crash your E on that dose.

id hate to go against drs orders , but maybe talk to him ,if you could start of slow first 0.25 EOD then draw bloods and adjust from there. Tell him you dont want to go full tilt and rather ease into it. ( this make you look like less of a druggy too !)

if he keeps on top of it all, he can always adjust dosages- im sure with him and (covertly) us you can find that sweet spot.

Thank you so much for your help Simon and understanding. You are right, i dont wanna piss him off as he is the only one who is willing to help and when i say only one i mean literly.

It does look like the high dose of arimidex. I was thinking to go against his advice and have 0.5mg every 3 days instead of every other day but i am not sure. His point on this dose was that my body is converting testosterone into estrogen and with 1500iu hcg per week the testosterone to estrogen conversion will increase therefore Arimidex is necessary.

Which makes sense in a way that i have no other source of producing estrogen as i avoid food, cosmetics or any product which may introduce estrogen in males body.

I am scared though, what if i miss that sweet spot, he wanted me to keep an eye on how i feel and also on my morning woods(fyi i didnt have morning wood for 2 years). I am not sure how am i going to do that as i have no experience with Arimidex. Your help will greatly be appriciated on this.

As a simple way, I was thinking to use my puffy nipples as an indicator and when they go down i reduce the dose, what do you think about that?

Also is it possible to keep the dose for 2 weeks and then reduce it? How long it takes arimidex to crash estrogen i mean is it in days or few weeks?

> > I have Anastrol by Aspen 1mg tablets (i guess its same as Arimidex) sorry for calling it arimidex <<

[Simon1972]

Puffy nips are apoor indication, although it is related, puffynips are a result of long term high e. If you go by that you will assume the armidex isdnt working when it is.

If you must, do .5 every 3.5 days.

It's too high, but if you can't get your Dr to budge, go for it. See how you feel. But keep an eye on it, advise your Dr if yu ou feel like you have crashed.

Remember, your Dr is running your show, be upfront with him. Some drs see patients mentioning forums as disrespecting their practice . so be careful.

[applips]

Puffy nips are apoor indication, although it is related, puffynips are a result of long term high e. If you go by that you will assume the armidex isdnt working when it is.

If you must, do .5 every 3.5 days.

It's too high, but if you can't get your Dr to budge, go for it. See how you feel. But keep an eye on it, advise your Dr if yu ou feel like you have crashed.

Remember, your Dr is running your show, be upfront with him. Some drs see patients mentioning forums as disrespecting their practice . so be careful.

Thanks for the info about puffy nipples, they are literally out,

ok, i will talk to him when i go to get HCG injection today.

is there a way to know when i am crashing? In regards to the low energy etc i have low energy for years so its so hard to tell if low energy is caused by estrogen drop.

I had the first 0.5 last night and after years i slept like a baby. I took a day off to have a long weekend with Australia day so in total i had about 12 hours of sleep after a very long time is it good?

I also had Clomid 25mg

[Mr.BB]

So you are taking Hcg and clomid at same time?

Both testosterone and dht are low, these are the major androgens. Some men are affected by low dht, and can be a cause contributing to ED.

[applips]

So you are taking Hcg and clomid at same time?

Both testosterone and dht are low, these are the major androgens. Some men are affected by low dht, and can be a cause contributing to ED.

Hi BB, Yes Clomid 25mg daily with hCG 1500iu weekly. I am also taking 7-KETO DHEA 25mg Daily.

What should i do to level DHT, my doctor also advised me to take some zinc 25 to 50 mg daily if i can.

Please advise and i will talk to my doctor, i noticed that he is a good listener when you put a logical reason in front of him and if he wants to deny it he actually gives a strong reason for it. The more knowledge i have the more discussions i can have with him

Also i am much worried about Arimidex dose as you guys suggested, i was thinking to let couple of weeks go and then reduce the dose depending on how i feel but i am not sure how should i feel to know if i am good on estrogen. I am so confused about arimidex.

Simon reckons i can do 0.50mg twice a week, what do you think? I have already started 0.5mg EOD (from last Friday ) and the possitve thing i noticed is my nipples are way less sensitive then they were previously. Now touching shirt doesn't irritate me at all and i dont feel shirt putting pressure on my nipples . Right nipple is still puffy where left nipple goes up and down during the day (mostly puffy).

I am thinking to go againest my doctors advise and do .5 on monday and .5 on friday.

[Mr.BB]

Dont stress too much about adex, yes some ppl are extra sensitive to low e2, most arent, personnaly can have e2 at close to zero and not feel a thing. Not saying it is healthy to have low estrogen, on the contrary, just saying not to focus and stress about it, if its low on next bloodwork im sure your doctor will titrate.

Well, taking both clomid and Hcg is strange amd conflicting. Hcg is a luteinizing hormone agonist and clomid is a serm that will raise your endogenous luteinizing hormone (LH), so basically you are taking exogenous LH while trying to boost your own natural LH. Btw LH is the hormone resposible for signaling the production of testosterone is your testis.

Yes zinc is ussually good in males, about dht it would be easy to take proviron (dht analog) and see if your condition improves.

[applips]

Dont stress too much about adex, yes some ppl are extra sensitive to low e2, most arent, personnaly can have e2 at close to zero and not feel a thing. Not saying it is healthy to have low estrogen, on the contrary, just saying not to focus and stress about it, if its low on next bloodwork im sure your doctor will titrate.

Thanks BB, i am not really sure why i am that sensetive to estrogen, Just a quick update about my nipples. They are way less sensitive then they were before although they are still extremely puffy and mostly a bit more sensitive on days when I don't take Arimidex at night.

Also after 2 years, this morning, i had a morning wood when i woke up i had an erection and I had to quickly touch my penis to believe it. It was not as strong as I could remember 2 years ago but it was there.

Well, taking both clomid and Hcg is strange amd conflicting. Hcg is a luteinizing hormone agonist and clomid is a serm that will raise your endogenous luteinizing hormone (LH), so basically you are taking exogenous LH while trying to boost your own natural LH. Btw LH is the hormone resposible for signaling the production of testosterone is your testis.

Yes zinc is ussually good in males, about dht it would be easy to take proviron (dht analog) and see if your condition improves.

I am not sure why he prescribed Clomid, its 25mg daily for first 2 weeks and then 25mg EOD for 4 weeks

[applips]

Hey Guys, just to say Hi -

i am waiting to finish whole 6 weeks cycle before i post a full final update as things are going up and down on weekly basis so it is difficult to tell exactly although the experience has been positive so far with few bumps here and there.

I will post the update at the end of cycle and before my next blood test.

[applips]

Ok Guys, i think i am in the position to post my results, while trying to make it short

The real affect started from week 4, week 1 and 2 was OK, week 3 I started feelings changes and end of week 3 I started feeling great.


Positives:
- Energy boost (some days i had so much energy that i felt like a monster).
- Increased Libido, First 2 weeks i didn't feel much, week 3 I started feeling some libido on short term basis and from week 4 i saw major increase in libido, I felt like having sex after a long time.
- Testicular growth, before my testicles were kinda small i guess but they have grown and i noticed something. My left testicle is slightly bigger or longer then the right one (sometimes, not always). I followed some quick medical instructions available to check if i have testicular cancer symptoms. Results were negative. I don't really remember if they were like that before when i was all fit, may be they were i just didn't notice because i didnt have to really check or worry about it. But i not ignoring this possibility. I wil talk to my doctor.
- I have grown, i have put on size and mass, my back is big and my arms are bigger then i ever had in past. First time i saw my biceps and shoulders going big but thats all just can be my hard work at the gym as i had some much energy but i have definitely seen a difference in my size. Bodyfat drop was 4% in 6 weeks with almost zero weight lose.
- extreme Confidence boost starting from week 4, less anxiety. It is still there sometimes but way way less. This again can also be just because i have changed myself i have more confidence the way i look now.
- Gynecomastia like symptoms are gone. I now wear tight shirts without worrying about my nipples and tits where previously i was wearing lose shirts to hide my gyno like symptoms. This in itself is a big relief.
- It may not be related but i just felt really good in general
- Morning woods from week 3, hardly there was any morning when I didn't have morning wood
- I am passionate about my work but since I started this protocol, great ideas are coming in my head from all over the place. I was able to handle pressure situations without any issue and anxiety.

Sex:
- After one year or so i was finally able to have sex. Starting week 4 i had high libido although i had extreme sexual anxiety. There was not a second i wasn't thinking about my ED during the sex. My brain was telling me "get it over with before you embarras yourself" so the first session lasted not more then 10 minutes, my penis stayed erect but i had to try so hard to kick out bad thoughs and invlove myself into sex, it was not really enjoying for me as I was continuously thinking about my ED But i felt so great after, it felt like i accomplished something. For next few days i was caught by the same anxiety again and was so scared to initiate the sex so i skipped the sex. The second time we tried in week 5, i didn't want to take it but i took levitra to get some help or I should say some mental relieve to overcome my anxiety. I wasn't sure if levitra was going to work as it stopped working for me previously. But it worked as this session was long and I enjoyed it and but there was not a minute i wasn't thinking about my ED again. It felt weird, i felt happy and sad at the same time, happy because i had sex and sad because i had to take help from levitra. Surprisingly i still had libido right after sex, i was so sleepy so i slept but next day when i woke up i was so horny, it felt like levitra is still pumping blood to my penis (which is impossible) so we had sex again and his time I was not thinking about my ED.

After that I had sex few more times in next couple of weeks and I used levitra.

After that I had 2 weeks break from all the drugs before I go for my blood work, So I was a bit scared that if i go off this protocol then i will be
1. Losing the sexual performance
2. Losing my gains
3. Losing the feeling of feeling good
4. Gyno-like symptoms may come back


Today it is full 2 weeks off, first 10 days were good, no issues, no changes, I felt great but from last 4 days I have lost about 50% of my libido. My energy levels are going up and down. My gains are still there and there are no gyno symptoms but I have started losing the that goodness feeling and having mood swings again.

What are your thoughts about all this and am I crashing again?


Sorry guys it was a long post. I am doing blood test again tomorrow.



...

[Simon1972]

Sounds all good. Expect some change in mood, I have after 1 year. I decided to backfill with pregnenalone and dhea and it seems to have helped. Also have a look at your dht levels, see how your results have changed from blood work to blood work.

[applips]

Sounds all good. Expect some change in mood, I have after 1 year. I decided to backfill with pregnenalone and dhea and it seems to have helped. Also have a look at your dht levels, see how your results have changed from blood work to blood work.

Thanks Simon, I will talk to my doctor about dht levels , I was taking Keto Dhea (if that's related). I am in a confusion, will my doctor do another cycle? Or is that all? do you think my test levels are raised now? Are they slowly coming down again?

I have lost morning wood, I know its difficult to tell without test results but these few weeks were happiest weeks of my life and I am scare to go back.

Does this mean the hcg worked? What that tells us though, what could be the cause of the initial issue?

Hopefully I get my test results and appointment before Easter.

[Simon1972]

Thanks Simon, I will talk to my doctor about dht levels , I was taking Keto Dhea (if that's related). I am in a confusion, will my doctor do another cycle? he has given you a ""cycle" to see if you will restart your htpa Or is that all?depends if you have restarted do you think my test levels are raised now? without a bloodtest nobody can tell you, Are they slowly coming down again? most likely yes

I have lost morning wood, I know its difficult to tell without test results but these few weeks were happiest weeks of my life and I am scare to go back. need bloodtest, the bloodtest will tell your dr if it has been successfull, your feeling nay be it hasnt- be patient and let the dr do his thing

Does this mean the hcg worked? What that tells us though, what could be the cause of the initial issue?most likely hcg would have helped,

Hopefully I get my test results and appointment before Easter.

see above, you need to not get so anxious- let your dr do his thing and dont pressure him.

get treated first- get onto trt if needed and from there ift will take you 1-2 years to get dialled in. be patient- drs work slow, but as long as you are getting treatment count your blessings. .

[applips]

see above, you need to not get so anxious- let your dr do his thing and dont pressure him.

get treated first- get onto trt if needed and from there ift will take you 1-2 years to get dialled in. be patient- drs work slow, but as long as you are getting treatment count your blessings. .

Thanks Simon,

I did my tests yesterday, going to see doctor on 1st of april.

I have gone back to the depression state i feel like sh!t

[Simon1972]

Post results here. Get the results ahead of time so you can read them and ask questions during your appointment.