IM insulin injections

**einstein1905** · 05-14-2004, 05:35 PM

Since AR was down today, my life was essentially on hold. So, I decided to do a little experiment and martyr my fingertips in the name of science. Shooting Humalog IM instead of subQ will speed up its onset of activity as well as shorten its total activity time....I see both of these things as an advantage to us. I've heard people say that shooting Humalog IM will lead to too fast an activity onset.....I don't agree, and my numbers prove this to be so.

We use insulin post w/o to expedite the replenishment process of intracellular glucose and amino acids, primarily in muscle. The quicker the onset of insulin activity, the less time our muscles will be in a nutrient-deprived state. Also, the shorter the total period of activity for insulin, the less time we have to eat an insulin-specific diet (i.e. no fats and limited carbs).

take a look at the following with the above in mind.

**abstrack** · 05-14-2004, 10:55 PM

great post einstein! keep this at top

**rambo** · 05-15-2004, 04:16 PM

Absolutely. I'll be starting to go IM soon. STICKY!

**jbigdog69** · 05-15-2004, 04:34 PM

Excellent!!! You da man....

**JonnyO** · 05-15-2004, 08:39 PM

good info.

***Mr. Sparkle*** · 05-17-2004, 12:37 AM

Wow if I ever use slin... Ill probally go IM. Good info once again bro

**01dragonslayer** · 05-17-2004, 08:04 AM

Great post Steiny. I think I'll try IM insulin injects for my bridge.

Swellin · 05-17-2004, 08:45 AM

Wow...nice post.

**DougoeFre5h** · 05-17-2004, 08:43 PM

Awsome post!

Swellin · 05-17-2004, 09:12 PM

Just a thought, it would be nice to see the results from sub-q as a control.

**einstein1905** · 05-17-2004, 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Swellin

Just a thought, it would be nice to see the results from sub-q as a control.

And a good thought it is....I'll get around to that next week. This week I'm going to go IM but use r-ALA too to see what effects it may have on BG vs time.

**majorpecs** · 05-18-2004, 06:51 AM

So are slin pins capable of im injections? or do you use regular pinz to do the im slin injections?

**einstein1905** · 05-18-2004, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by majorpecs

So are slin pins capable of im injections? or do you use regular pinz to do the im slin injections?

slin pins work fine.

**SLUMPBUSTR** · 05-21-2004, 09:28 AM

ever since you posted that info i switched to im. i love it, i feel like its in and out of my system in no time. i still eat the correct meals on time but the other day i was a little late on my 45 min after meal and i felt no sign's of hypo, usually if im even a min off it kicks in. im just interested to see how much if any added bennefit it will have on more muscle mass then subq.

**einstein1905** · 05-21-2004, 09:42 AM

Originally Posted by SLUMPBUSTR

ever since you posted that info i switched to im. i love it, i feel like its in and out of my system in no time. i still eat the correct meals on time but the other day i was a little late on my 45 min after meal and i felt no sign's of hypo, usually if im even a min off it kicks in. im just interested to see how much if any added bennefit it will have on more muscle mass then subq.

Yeah, it'd be hard to argue that subQ is better after trying IM with insulin . The only potential difference on lean mass may be the site-specific effects would be shifted from adipose to muscle, but the site-specific effects are minimal. You're still getting full systemic delivery....it's just occurring faster.

Today after I lift, I'm going to add 300mg of r-ALA into the mix.....r-ALA allegedly skews nutrient uptake in favor of muscle as opposed to fat, in addition to its other actions. I'm not going to be able to notice this effect by BG measurements alone, but I'll take BG often and plot it again.

I've been thinking about trying GH, LR3, and Humalog all IM into the muscles worked post w/o.....we'll see.

**SLUMPBUSTR** · 05-21-2004, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Yeah, it'd be hard to argue that subQ is better after trying IM with insulin . The only potential difference on lean mass may be the site-specific effects would be shifted from adipose to muscle, but the site-specific effects are minimal. You're still getting full systemic delivery....it's just occurring faster.

Today after I lift, I'm going to add 300mg of r-ALA into the mix.....r-ALA allegedly skews nutrient uptake in favor of muscle as opposed to fat, in addition to its other actions. I'm not going to be able to notice this effect by BG measurements alone, but I'll take BG often and plot it again.

I've been thinking about trying GH, LR3, and Humalog all IM into the muscles worked post w/o.....we'll see.

i was wondering if it would have any site-specific effects as well. cause if so then you'd have to take half in one muscle and half in the other. but like you said i doubt the effects are enough to make a big difference, maybe enough to bring up a lagging muscle though, like if one bicep is a bit smaller then the other. idk

youll have to let us know if you notice any difference after about a week or so with the r-ALA.

the gh, LR3, humolog combo has been running through my head ever since i first tried igf-1. im starting my next cycle in about in less then a week and i will deffinatly using the humolog and igf-1. and if i can afford it gh as well.

**einstein1905** · 05-21-2004, 10:39 PM

So, after tonight's workout, I decided to add some r-ALA to the mix. I used 300mg of Glucorell iimediately after lifting. All the other time points are identical to my initial graph from my first post, as far as timing and quantity of nutrient intake.....identical.
One thing to note is that my BG was about 10mg/dL lower after this workout, which was due to my not taking in sufficient carbs prior to lifting. I plotted my original numbers along with tonight's numbers for comparison. it's pretty clear the the r-ALA had a significant impact on BG levels, and it seems the effect persisted for at least 2.5-3hrs. I had to stop taking measurements after 3 hours, because the Lakers were on....

**flexshack** · 05-22-2004, 11:03 AM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

So, after tonight's workout, I decided to add some r-ALA to the mix. I used 300mg of Glucorell iimediately after lifting. All the other time points are identical to my initial graph from my first post, as far as timing and quantity of nutrient intake.....identical.
One thing to note is that my BG was about 10mg/dL lower after this workout, which was due to my not taking in sufficient carbs prior to lifting. I plotted my original numbers along with tonight's numbers for comparison. it's pretty clear the the r-ALA had a significant impact on BG levels, and it seems the effect persisted for at least 2.5-3hrs. I had to stop taking measurements after 3 hours, because the Lakers were on....

wow, aren't your starting BG levels really low?

**einstein1905** · 05-22-2004, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by flexshack

wow, aren't your starting BG levels really low?

Yes, I'd expect my BG values to be somewhere in the 75mg/dL range immediately after a w/o. That doesn't change the relative trends of the BG values over time, but I should be starting at a higher value.

**Legal_Lifter** · 05-23-2004, 01:14 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Since AR was down today, my life was essentially on hold. So, I decided to do a little experiment and martyr my fingertips in the name of science. Shooting Humalog IM instead of subQ will speed up its onset of activity as well as shorten its total activity time....I see both of these things as an advantage to us. I've heard people say that shooting Humalog IM will lead to too fast an activity onset.....I don't agree, and my numbers prove this to be so.

We use insulin post w/o to expedite the replenishment process of intracellular glucose and amino acids, primarily in muscle. The quicker the onset of insulin activity, the less time our muscles will be in a nutrient-deprived state. Also, the shorter the total period of activity for insulin, the less time we have to eat an insulin-specific diet (i.e. no fats and limited carbs).

take a look at the following with the above in mind.

awsome! that is the first self test with quick feedback i have heard relating to going IM. i tried both in the past, i hate sub-Q, now if i try IM, at least i know i am not wasting it or causing it to take "longer" to hit. thanks.

**Legal_Lifter** · 05-23-2004, 01:18 PM

hey, do you suppose that means if i have to use the other form (humalin???) that it will quicken/shorten it's action as well? maybe even to equal to a a sub-Q shot of humalog?

**einstein1905** · 05-23-2004, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by Legal_Lifter

hey, do you suppose that means if i have to use the other form (humalin???) that it will quicken/shorten it's action as well? maybe even to equal to a a sub-Q shot of humalog?

It will shorten its onset time and also the time befor eit peaks and its total duration of activity, but it will not be as dramatic as with Humalog. With Humalog, its inherent rate of activity and the rate of "absorption" are both large factors in its total activity rate/duration. With the longer-acting insulins, the rate of absorption is less of a factor, as the longer-acting insulins have other factors that delay their activities. I couldn't even guess by how much time an IM shot of Humalin R would be reduced before activity onset.

**SLUMPBUSTR** · 05-24-2004, 09:30 AM

youll have to excuse my stupidity....im not to sure of what your second graph means with the r-ALA. since the r-ALA is keeping your BG levels about 50-60 mg/dl lower does that mean you wouldnt need to consume as many simple carbs? sorry if im way off track here.

**Legal_Lifter** · 05-24-2004, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

It will shorten its onset time and also the time befor eit peaks and its total duration of activity, but it will not be as dramatic as with Humalog. With Humalog, its inherent rate of activity and the rate of "absorption" are both large factors in its total activity rate/duration. With the longer-acting insulins, the rate of absorption is less of a factor, as the longer-acting insulins have other factors that delay their activities. I couldn't even guess by how much time an IM shot of Humalin R would be reduced before activity onset.

if i can not get a legit script for humalog, i will have to use the humalin. do you supose that is the one i had b4 that was OTC??? i can not remember, it was a few years back. i just remember the best/safest one needed a script and the other did not... i am going to the pharmacy to refill other scripts today and can double check when i am there, but i'd prefer to walk in with more confidence and just tell them to give me the OTC form. i should still have plenty if slin pins (they work well for HCG as well)... i may also have found a doctor to be refered to that will get me off the androgel and on a more productive dosage if IM test and anti E's (i hope)...

**DougoeFre5h** · 05-26-2004, 05:46 PM

Im wondering why you never did this with a sub-q shot & identical nutrient intake for direct comparison.

**einstein1905** · 05-26-2004, 05:50 PM

Originally Posted by DougoeFre5h

Im wondering why you never did this with a sub-q shot & identical nutrient intake for direct comparison.

Because it's not fun pricking my fingers and taking BG measurements every 5-10 minutes for 2+ hours. I think I'll do that friday. I had planned on doing it earlier.

**DougoeFre5h** · 05-26-2004, 05:52 PM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Because it's not fun pricking my fingers and taking BG measurements every 5-10 minutes for 2+ hours. I think I'll do that friday. I had planned on doing it earlier.

lol, well ill be looking forward to the results, your sacrifice is much appreciated

**Legal_Lifter** · 05-27-2004, 11:13 AM

To all willing guinea pigs: We salute you and appreciate your ******* sacrifices to further the sport!

:-)

**flexshack** · 05-27-2004, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Because it's not fun pricking my fingers and taking BG measurements every 5-10 minutes for 2+ hours. I think I'll do that friday. I had planned on doing it earlier.

very true.
btw einstein, i seem to be noticing a trend in my glucometer's readings. it seems if i drop just barely enough blood on the strip to get a reading, my result seems a little too low. but if i drop a more than ample amount of blood, my result seems higher. the other day, i tried to test this by doing what i described above and my results were 63 and 87 respectively, only 4 minutes apart. what's the deal here?

btw, i apologize for the digression.

**einstein1905** · 05-27-2004, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by flexshack

very true.
btw einstein, i seem to be noticing a trend in my glucometer's readings. it seems if i drop just barely enough blood on the strip to get a reading, my result seems a little too low. but if i drop a more than ample amount of blood, my result seems higher. the other day, i tried to test this by doing what i described above and my results were 63 and 87 respectively, only 4 minutes apart. what's the deal here?

btw, i apologize for the digression.

I use just enough blood so that the reverse side of the test strip has just become one solid color. Too little or too much will skew the readings

**ColdSore** · 07-12-2004, 12:35 AM

one thing i noticed on your graph....just making sure this is right...

you consumed your simple carbs 5 mins after your slin injection so they are redily avalible...then waited 30 mins (35min post shot) to consume your whey...

why is that?...just trying to learn

**einstein1905** · 07-12-2004, 01:03 AM

Originally Posted by ColdStone

one thing i noticed on your graph....just making sure this is right...

you consumed your simple carbs 5 mins after your slin injection so they are redily avalible...then waited 30 mins (35min post shot) to consume your whey...

why is that?...just trying to learn

Just playing with the timing.....I now go a bit earlier, 20 min.....you want to have your suply of amino acids ready at the peak of insulin activity, but I also want to give my dextrose enough time to be fully absorbed (from the GI tract) first.....20 min lag is plenty of time....15 works fine too.

**ColdSore** · 07-12-2004, 01:07 AM

Originally Posted by einstein1905

Just playing with the timing.....I now go a bit earlier, 20 min.....you want to have your suply of amino acids ready at the peak of insulin activity, but I also want to give my dextrose enough time to be fully absorbed (from the GI tract) first.....20 min lag is plenty of time....15 works fine too.

ok...i think i see now

**cpt steele** · 07-12-2004, 02:45 PM

If I understand correctly that the ala. will transport the nutrients and help control spill over

**powerlifter** · 07-12-2004, 03:45 PM

Einy you are too much ....... you are my favorite guinea pig LOL

**ColdSore** · 07-12-2004, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by cpt steele

If I understand correctly that the ala. will transport the nutrients and help control spill over

ala or do you need the r-ala?

**cpt steele** · 07-12-2004, 06:39 PM

R-ala is more powerful

**EcOcAt** · 07-18-2004, 05:05 PM

it is really important nothing else to inject to finish training?

it is that I train far from my house and take surroundings to 10-15 minutes in arriving. and as training to the half day and I leave my house in the morning, I cannot take the insulin to me raises without its integrity is in danger that I can do?

it can serve an isothermal bottle as which the cyclists use?

**einstein1905** · 07-18-2004, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by EcOcAt

it is really important nothing else to inject to finish training?

it is that I train far from my house and take surroundings to 10-15 minutes in arriving. and as training to the half day and I leave my house in the morning, I cannot take the insulin to me raises without its integrity is in danger that I can do?

it can serve an isothermal bottle as which the cyclists use?

You can't bring your insulin with you in the morning, and you train at midday? If so, you go home after training, correct? And it's a 15 minute drive? Just wait until you get home to inject then.....15 minutes isn't too long.

You can use an isothermal cooler with a small amount of ice in it.....that will work too. Preload your insulin in the syringe and just bring that though.......don't bring the whole vial.

**EcOcAt** · 07-18-2004, 05:34 PM

thanks!!

will buy an isothermal bottle of those of cyclists, I will preload the syringe and it will inside take it with ice is that

I have often read who the sooner I punctured myself better, but never I have known the reason for sure...

very good it devises

another thing...

after the training of noon the lunch, until now it was doing it of form continued to shot following the theory of thus having available those nutrients within the rank of action of the insulin , is this correct one? or I must hope other 15-20 minutes after the sugar ingestion to eat ?