newbie test-c / hgh cycle

**lavaman** · 06-16-2005, 06:38 PM

Steroids now often used for slimming, not just sports By Mark Sappenfield and Adam Karlin
Thu Jun 16, 4:00 AM ET

During the two months of its wide-ranging inquiry into steroid abuse , Congress has come a long way from slugger Mark McGwire. When lawmakers opened a fourth hearing on the subject Wednesday, they were talking not about the batting averages and biceps of professional ballplayers, but the waistlines and weight of teenage girls.

It was an attempt to explore the growing concern nationwide about steroid abuse among young women. Yet in the process, it also laid bare perhaps a deeper and more overlooked trend in steroid abuse - one that goes beyond sport or sex. Many steroid users - both men and women - take the drug not to run faster, jump higher, or throw harder, but simply to look better.

Among boys, it has been called the "Adonis Complex" - a desire for the perfect body, as old as ancient Greece, now abetted by chemical means. Among girls, it is seen as part of a disorder akin to anorexia - a pathological desire to get the fit, toned figure of modern fashion. Indeed, to a growing number of scientists, steroids are no longer linked only to sports, but to a society fixated by the shape and size of the human body.

"There is a consensus that the problem is real," says Gary Wadler, a doctor of sports medicine and a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency. "[Steroid abuse] is not just about making the team, ...It goes significantly beyond that."

Getting a handle on the scope and nature of steroid abuse has long been difficult. Most scientists agree that surveys prove that a problem exists, even if researchers disagree on the numbers. One survey by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, for example, suggests that 5 percent of high school girls have abused steroids - findings that in many ways led to Wednesday's hearings.

Although at least one panelist took issue with those numbers, suggesting they are high, there is convincing evidence - both statistical and anecdotal - that a significant percentage of those who do abuse steroids are not athletes. A survey of 13 high schools in Oregon found that, among boys, 4.5 percent of nonathletes took steroids. The figure is in the same ballpark as the one for athletes: 6.5 percent.

The data for girls were even more revealing. Some 2.1 percent of nonathletes took steroids, compared with 1 percent of athletes. For girls in particular, the trend is an outgrowth of the increased stakes of women's sports in the Title IX era, as well as shifting perceptions of what is considered to be physical perfection. In a rebellion against the waifish looks of past generations, today's girl power has increasingly embraced raw power and the more robust look that goes with it.

"It used to be bulimia was the fad choice, and most college women would go through it," says Amanda Gruber, a psychiatrist at Harvard University's McLean Hospital in Belmont, Mass. "This is the new thing.... Now it's attractive to be thin and toned."

In Wednesday's congressional hearing US sprinter Kelli White, who testified to her use of performance enhancing drugs to win races, also admitted to being seduced by the the glamorous effect the drugs had on her body.

"There are a lot of pressures to look a certain way," said Ms. White. "We need to teach women how to be comfortable with their bodies."

Clinicians certainly don't wish to discourage physical fitness. But any trend can be taken too far. One study by Dr. Gruber found some women so obsessed about maintaining their appearance that they "refused to eat out at restaurants or at friends' houses because of their need to be certain that they were ingesting the precise amounts of calories, protein, fat, and carbohydrates that they believed necessary to maintain their physique."

In this context, steroids can become just another tool in the chemical arsenal - like diet pills or protein shakes. "It's the easiest way for a woman to decrease body fat," adds Gruber. "No matter how much you diet, for many women to reach these increasing aesthetic ideals, they need to do something like take steroids."

To scientists, this represents a failure to adequately convey the serious medical side effects of steroid abuse for women and men - such as heart and liver damage. The percentage of people who feel that steroids are dangerous drugs fell from 71 percent in 1992 to 56 percent in 2004, according to a report by Monitoring the Future.

"That translates into a risk for increased usage," says Dr. Wadler. "If we get glib with this, then it is sowing the seeds for problems down the road, as we found out with the East Germans."

One response has been ATLAS and ATHENA, two gender-specific programs devised by the Oregon Health and Science University to counter the pressure from peers and coaches to turn to steroids and other body-shaping drugs.

"You don't talk about calories or unhealthy behavior," says Linn Goldberg, co-principal investigator for the programs. "You talk about what's healthy, and what you need."

**lavaman** · 06-20-2005, 12:42 AM

Energy level is back on track!!!!
thanks for the advice on the b12 it really helped alot I'm taking 2000mg of the b12 along with the gear/gh.. I found out that pomagrante juice from trader joe's is really good for you while your on AAS. It helps clean out the liver/kidneys.. I acutally had bad cramps from something and drank a couple of cups and it went away after a few hours.

My results at the start of week 8 are pretty good so far..
I went from having no defintion in my arms .. to having bulges in my arm, you can see a seperate tricept muscle/bicep/chest muscle even with my high bf.. most of my weight is in my stomach so you can start to see veins popping out of my arms.

My stomach has went down alot!
i COULD ONLY FIT IN A 4XL 4 MONTHS AGO AND NOW i CAN FIT INTO AN XL, well I can get it on.. and it's very tight but Hey i can put it on!
lol.

My BF has gone done a 1 percentage but my weight has increased about 17 pounds since the start of the cycle.. so i'm guessing i've gained all muscle?
this week i'm starting my legs and going back to the cardio..
I'm going to cut the Test-cyp at week 12 and then do two weeks of winny, where I'll just finish it off with some nolva....

**lavaman** · 06-20-2005, 12:44 AM

What should I do at the end of my AAS cycle?
I was going to stop the test-cyp at week 12 and then do two weeks of winny at 100mg ED, and then start nolva...
What point should I go back to my 150 mg low dose of test-cyp for hrt?

**lavaman** · 06-20-2005, 12:45 AM

WOOOO HOOOOOOO!

My jin passed customs and is on it's way to my house.. thanks God for online tracking!
It's my first time using jintropin!

**abstrack** · 06-20-2005, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by lavaman

What should I do at the end of my AAS cycle?
I was going to stop the test-cyp at week 12 and then do two weeks of winny at 100mg ED, and then start nolva...
What point should I go back to my 150 mg low dose of test-cyp for hrt?

I would just continue with HRT. If you are on for life, might as well enjoy the ride and keep on driving.

**Gear** · 06-20-2005, 08:16 AM

HRT for life, hrmm. Take advantage of it because you can.

-Gear

**lavaman** · 06-20-2005, 08:20 AM

so If i'm cycling then how do I do pct? at the end of my 12th week, last injection should not use nolva? or give my body a break....?
and my hrt test cyp dose is 150 mg a week, should I start that right away or wait.. I wanted to lean out ...

**lavaman** · 06-20-2005, 10:54 PM

bumparooooooooo!

I got my jino kits wooo hooooooo.... really nice packaging and great looks like good quality!

**lavaman** · 06-21-2005, 01:42 AM

OK I thought I would share my picture!
I dont have a good before picture but just imagine no muscles at all! seriously there was no bulge or definition before this cycle.

Let me know what you think nothing compared to bodybuilding stage but does it look like i'm 40 percent bf.. it's all in my gut..

**abstrack** · 06-21-2005, 07:20 PM

No need to do pct IMO if you are on HRT. Just keep on running the cyp or even switch to enanth. You could run nolva continiously at 20mg and that would be suffucient.

**dale** · 06-21-2005, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by lavaman

so If i'm cycling then how do I do pct? at the end of my 12th week, last injection should not use nolva? or give my body a break....?
and my hrt test cyp dose is 150 mg a week, should I start that right away or wait.. I wanted to lean out ...

150mg a week???? my HRT gave me (6) refills on my cyp. hell, i only need two for myself (400mg) and he did the same thing for the deca . LOLOLOLOL.....my friends were kissing my ass for days until i gave my extras up. i only plan to do one cycle this year anyway. i just wanted to see what would happen when i added AAS and IGF to my GH.

**lavaman** · 06-21-2005, 10:58 PM

Wow that's great, I have medical insurance that goes through Kaiser Permanante and they have their own doctors and facilities and specific guildines for HRT! It sucks, I only get a few bottles and they monitor the presecription like a controlled substance. So I have to buy extra AAS to run cycles.

**goldenFloyd** · 06-22-2005, 12:19 PM

yo dale, do you need a new friend? lol.

lavaman, 1. awesome work. 2. your enthusiasm for getting your health on track definitely shows in your posts. 3. it is great to be open-minded and willing to listen to advice - the bros here are all pointing you in the right direction.

4. definitely give the board some updates with how you like the jino. I'm running jino at 4iu / day and wondering if getting the domestic pharma's would yield much better results. I'm only running 80mg of questionable anavar / day with the GH, but thinking of adding t3 to the mix because I am trying to burn fat like you.

5. no acne or hairloss from the winny / test cyp combo? i'm taking accutane right now and I've noticed 2-3 new small pimples on my jaw since adding the var to the mix... the only evidence that it is doing something.

6. if you have more stories about KP, let the board know - they are my provider as well.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

**lavaman** · 06-22-2005, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by goldenFloyd

yo dale, do you need a new friend? lol.

lavaman, 1. awesome work. 2. your enthusiasm for getting your health on track definitely shows in your posts. 3. it is great to be open-minded and willing to listen to advice - the bros here are all pointing you in the right direction.

4. definitely give the board some updates with how you like the jino. I'm running jino at 4iu / day and wondering if getting the domestic pharma's would yield much better results. I'm only running 80mg of questionable anavar / day with the GH, but thinking of adding t3 to the mix because I am trying to burn fat like you.

5. no acne or hairloss from the winny / test cyp combo? i'm taking accutane right now and I've noticed 2-3 new small pimples on my jaw since adding the var to the mix... the only evidence that it is doing something.

6. if you have more stories about KP, let the board know - they are my provider as well.

KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!

Hey thanks for the nice post!

My first batch of gh was a chinese generic from Clubhgh in canada, I'm sorry it was horrible if you ask me.. I got results sure.. but the sides were bad.
Cramping, bloating, and red welts all over my stomach.

My second batch was from signature pharmacy, domestic ( oasis) great great great great product, hardly any sides no welts, a little bloating at 4 iu.. but that's because I was stubburn and started right off with 4iu a day..

I just got my jino, and it's been two days, and I have to say that I can feel more bloating and cramping then before. It sort of increased the past two days I dont know if it has to do with switching? All in all, I got a great price and I can't afford to go back to domestic because of finnancial costs.

What's KP?

Oh and the winny/testcp, my hair has started to thin a bit.. I just started noticing.. **** it I hope it will grow back! my the gh will counter it.
The winny is great for making your muscles look harder, and I have more cuts.. I mean if you can see my picture.. their actually is some definition and before my cycle I had nothing.

My only complaint is that the winny has started to slow down my sex drive, but I mean it was really high before the winny becoause of the test.

**lavaman** · 06-22-2005, 03:13 PM

Wierd!

1. it's been little over 2 weeks I've been doing the liquidex/nolva, and befoer I had bitch tits from being overweight.. and now they've shrunk like 50 percent!
theirs actually sagging skin you can pull lol.. that's some great stuff!

2. I've been getting heart flutters ever since I added the nolva/liquidex/winny, and it goes away when I relax and breath deeply.. is it anxiety or something else.
I had my bp checked and it was 135/80 .. boarderline high but considering i'm on all the AAS it's going to be elevated before aas it was 120/65

**lavaman** · 06-22-2005, 03:18 PM

I guess I should update my progress in the strength arena..
my bench is up to 275 4 times 3/4th of the way down to the chest.. january 29th it was 135 barely once.. Not bad!

**lavaman** · 06-22-2005, 03:23 PM

pharmachy's in California are so freaking dumb...
they won't let you buy pins unless you have a prescription!
But I just grab and Old test-cyp/gh bottle that is empty with my name on it, and tell them I'm from out of town and I ran out.. then they let me buy whatever I want.. and it's much cheaper then buying it online I think!

Speaking of pins!
does anyone really notice a diffrence betwen brands of pins?
and for gh is 29 gauge the standard, I tried 30 and it sucks.. it bends too much..

for winny, I'm using 25g 1 inch, and test cyp 23 gauge 1.5.

My wife says that I inject myself so easly like a herion addict! it doesnt bother me at all.. I've done bi's, chest, thighs, glut, shoulders...

Biceps are tricky....chest is cool with the winny you dont feel shit at all.

**lavaman** · 06-23-2005, 10:23 PM

The cramping, and pain in the sides has gone away after drinking a huge 64 ounce bottle of pure cranberry juice. I dont know what the hell caused it but that sure helped!

almost put up 300 today.. only could do it halfway with a spotter.. but that was at the eend of my workout..
Next week i'll max out in the beginning...!

**lavaman** · 06-27-2005, 06:23 PM

My Source and some other folks on this board have suggested that a good cutting cycle would inlcude tren /prop, and/or winny, anavar .

After my 12th week, of using test-cyp what combination do you all suggest for a cutting cycle.
I have about 40ml of prop 100/tren75 and 125 25 mg winny tabs, and 100 10mg Var tabs.
When and what amounts do you all reccomend?

**lavaman** · 06-30-2005, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by lavaman

My Source and some other folks on this board have suggested that a good cutting cycle would inlcude tren /prop, and/or winny, anavar .

After my 12th week, of using test-cyp what combination do you all suggest for a cutting cycle.
I have about 40ml of prop 100/tren75 and 125 25 mg winny tabs, and 100 10mg Var tabs.
?

When and what amounts do you all reccomend?

**Two4the$$** · 07-06-2005, 04:12 AM

I'd guess it wouldn't be a bad idea to train naturally for 5 - 6 weeks... You can continue the GH, but i would chill with the roids... then go back. The reason is? You may not have to worry about a chemical dependancy, but I would DEFINITELY consider psychological addiction. There's more than one reason to cycle.

How much is your Jino costing you?

**lavaman** · 07-06-2005, 03:18 PM

Hey, thanks for the post/advice.
It can be pyscologically addicting, I don't think that happens as early as on your first cycle though.. but who knows..

**running_donkey** · 07-11-2005, 09:10 AM

Lavaman,
how is it going? I just came across this thread and found it interesting. Like yourself, I am presently overweight and dieting down. I'm 41y.o. 6'2 and my peak weight was 374 eleven weeks ago. I've been on a steady diet with weight training and cardio. I've come down to 332 as of this past friday. That's 42 pounds in 11 weeks. Needless to say I'm pretty happy. About five weeks ago I started doing hgh(jintropin). Right now i'm doing 15iu's a week, but I'm going to up it to probably about 21 iu's a week. Since I started the gh, the weight has literally been falling off me. It's crazy. I'm getting married in october, and my goal by then is to get under 300. I think I could even hit 290, but I'll be happy to just get under 300 by then. Like yourself I can't weigh myself at the home scale as it only goes up to 300, lol. I've been using the scale at jenny craig as well as buying some of their food. It's pretty damn goood, but I need to add lots of protein to it. How are you measuring your bodyfat %? I ordered a set of digital skinfold calipers that should arrive this week. I'm going to measure my bf% and do pics as this friday will be the twelve week mark. I'm dying to do a cycle myself, but I'm way too paranoid to do it at these bodyfat levels. When i get my bf down to about 15%, i'll start a cycle then(my first). Like yourself, being overweight, I got the whole man-boob thing going on. I'm too afraid doing a cycle at this point would only elelvate my estrogen levels and exacerbate that problem. I'm lovin' this gh though. The fat is melting off and my strength levels are going up. My jintropin is a bit on the pricey side, as I'm paying $700 for a 100iu kit. Still cheaper than the legit stuff though.
good luck to you as you seem to be doin' great.

**Two4the$$** · 07-11-2005, 12:49 PM

Don't lul yourself to believing that you can't become addicted to the emotionaly high. Take breaks from high doses for periods... Trust me. I had a bit of a depressed stage AFTER pct, and it seems (since I NEVER get depressed) that it may have had something to do with it. There are other reasons too, like your cholesteral, and that your ligaments and tendons can't handle high loads increasing quickly over short times. It's a recipe for injury. Take my word for it, cycle.

**lavaman** · 07-12-2005, 07:43 AM

Originally Posted by running_donkey

Lavaman,
how is it going? I just came across this thread and found it interesting. Like yourself, I am presently overweight and dieting down. I'm 41y.o. 6'2 and my peak weight was 374 eleven weeks ago. I've been on a steady diet with weight training and cardio. I've come down to 332 as of this past friday. That's 42 pounds in 11 weeks. Needless to say I'm pretty happy. About five weeks ago I started doing hgh(jintropin). Right now i'm doing 15iu's a week, but I'm going to up it to probably about 21 iu's a week. Since I started the gh, the weight has literally been falling off me. It's crazy. I'm getting married in october, and my goal by then is to get under 300. I think I could even hit 290, but I'll be happy to just get under 300 by then. Like yourself I can't weigh myself at the home scale as it only goes up to 300, lol. I've been using the scale at jenny craig as well as buying some of their food. It's pretty damn goood, but I need to add lots of protein to it. How are you measuring your bodyfat %? I ordered a set of digital skinfold calipers that should arrive this week. I'm going to measure my bf% and do pics as this friday will be the twelve week mark. I'm dying to do a cycle myself, but I'm way too paranoid to do it at these bodyfat levels. When i get my bf down to about 15%, i'll start a cycle then(my first). Like yourself, being overweight, I got the whole man-boob thing going on. I'm too afraid doing a cycle at this point would only elelvate my estrogen levels and exacerbate that problem. I'm lovin' this gh though. The fat is melting off and my strength levels are going up. My jintropin is a bit on the pricey side, as I'm paying $700 for a 100iu kit. Still cheaper than the legit stuff though.
good luck to you as you seem to be doin' great.

Hey, you don't really have to worry about man-boobs while cycling unless your doing very high doses for a long period of time, and even then if you take some armidex/liquedex it will prevent gynocastamia from developing. In fact, after taking liquidex for a few weeks now I have seen a reduction in mine. Being overweight, increases the estrogen in your body anyways... so the liqudex/armidex will help reduce the estrogen.

How long have you been on the GH for and at what point did it start shedding off weight. I'm on my 11th week and at 4iu, and I've noticed a huge bf loss, recently though my weight has stayed the same I think since i'm cycling the test-cyp, winistrol, etc.

I measure my body fat by using calipers and then averaging the results from a digital body fat anyslzer. it's not perfect but it works since that's what i've been using from the beginning. I started off at 56 percent and now i'm at 34.

Anyways, I would definately think about adding some testosorone to your regimine, it will help loose the fat in your abdomen and make the hgh work more effectievely.

**running_donkey** · 07-12-2005, 10:25 AM

Hey Lavaman,
I'm in my sixth week of the jintropin. The first week or two when I took it I didn't notice a huge weight loss despite my rigorous diet and exercise. I think it was due to initial fluid retention from the growth. Since then though the weight has been flying off. In the last three weeks I've taken off 15.3 pounds! And those are weeks 9,10, and 11 of the diet. Everyone has been complimenting me on the weight loss as it has really become noticeable. The beautifull thing as well is that my strength has been going up as well.
My skinfold calipers should be arriving this week.
I've been doing 2.5iu mon-sat. 15 iu's total for the week. I think I might bump it up to 20-24iu's a week...4iu's 6/1.
Another reason I'm not going for the test. just yet is that the wife and I are tryin' to get pregnant, and the last thing I want to do is shut down the "boys". I've got febuary/march in mind for the first cycle. I'm thinking of doing like 400 test and 200 deca , or maybe 500sust/200 deca. We'll see.
My first kit of jintropin is gonna be done this week. I ordered another kit through my friend. He said he could get 120 iu kits for the same price. I thought great! Let's do it. Then I did some research and I think i might have ended up ordering fukking Fitropin. That's that 192 crap.

As we already ordered and gave the guy the dough, we're stuck with it. I'll know for sure tomorrow. Not only am I gonna be pissed if the stuff doesn't work, I'll also be pissed for wasting six weeks on the stuff. And I'll absolutely freak if I get red welts.

**running_donkey** · 07-13-2005, 11:27 AM

Yippee do dah! It was the Fitropin allright. God I hope this stuff works and doesn't cause any problems. $700 for a 120iu kit. I'm gonna blast through it and do 4iu ed 6/1. Skinfold calipers arrived yesterday. Got readings between 31% and 35%. Better than I expected. Looks like I got a lean body mass around 214lbs so my goal weight of 250 should look pretty good.