Sub-q inj question??

**BigSwol** · 11-21-2006, 10:27 PM

When shooting sub q, is aspiration still necessary? I just figure since your in fat won't you still get some blood into the pin? Or do you just find a decent area and inject?

BigSwol

**MorganKane** · 11-21-2006, 10:55 PM

I dont aspirate on sub-q.
Dont think its necessary since you dont really have any veins to inject into.

**Gear** · 11-21-2006, 10:58 PM

Not for Sub-Q, IM only.

-Gear

**C_Bino** · 11-21-2006, 11:39 PM

Why would you not have to aspirate when you go sub-q?
Please explain this to me, because it makes no sense to think you cant get into a vein sub-q if you guys know your anatomy. Where do you think your blood vessels lie in muscles? Well if you think that you are COMPLETELY wrong.

**Gear** · 11-22-2006, 12:11 AM

I have never bothered to aspirate when injecting Sub-Q because my doc said there is no need to. You always hear people injecting IM and hitting nerves, going through veins, drawing back blood etc, but I have never come across cases as such when it comes to Sub-Q. I just think the chances of something happening are way higher when injectin IM. But I'm sure there is a small chance of something happening even when injecting Sub-Q.

-Gear

**C_Bino** · 11-22-2006, 12:36 AM

Well I will put this the simplest way possible. When you are lean you see your veins through your skin right? so well that should tell us something, these veins are ONTOP of our muscle's. So knowing this to be a 100% fact now if you inject somewhere where you have a thicker layer of fat do you think those veins no longer exist under the skin and ontop of the muscles?

I will say this, sure Im no doctor but I have learned some thigns over the years studying anatomy and working with cadavers. Doctors dont always know everything that I will guarantee. Veins do not ever run through muscles, think about it, if there was a vein in the middle of your muscle and you contract that muscle you would be cutting off the blood supply. Blood vessels run ontop of muscle and in between them deeper in your body but never go into a muscle.

I think the risk of drawing back blood while aspirating is GREATER sub-q. When you know your body and know when you are inside a muscle with a pin you aint gonna draw no blood thats for sure. I have never once in my entire life drawn blood, because I know my body and know how deep to get into a muscle.

Just tryin to keep you guys safe is all, not tryin to bust anyones balls.

**Hard Head** · 11-22-2006, 10:19 AM

Good Call Bino.

**BigSwol** · 11-22-2006, 05:45 PM

So then the answer is yes, always aspirate . Just wanted to know if injecting sub q does it basically look the same when aspirating? IE, when going IM and aspirating you normally see little air bubbles when done corectly.....can I assume it looks the same when done sub q? Sorry for the stupidity, in advance...just want to be prepared.

BigSwol

**C_Bino** · 11-22-2006, 06:52 PM

Originally Posted by BigSwol

So then the answer is yes, always aspirate . Just wanted to know if injecting sub q does it basically look the same when aspirating? IE, when going IM and aspirating you normally see little air bubbles when done corectly.....can I assume it looks the same when done sub q? Sorry for the stupidity, in advance...just want to be prepared.

BigSwol

Yup, looks the exact same. Sure you will be using a slin pin so its a lot smaller but still you will draw some air into the syringe.

**BigSwol** · 11-22-2006, 10:07 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

Yup, looks the exact same. Sure you will be using a slin pin so its a lot smaller but still you will draw some air into the syringe.

Thanks bro, I appeciate it!

BigSwol

**Ufa** · 11-22-2006, 10:23 PM

edit

**BigSwol** · 11-23-2006, 06:34 AM

Actually I was refering to HCG , but I believe this can be done either way also.

BigSwol

**MorganKane** · 11-23-2006, 08:21 AM

I asked my wife and one of co workers. Both have been oncology nurses for over 15 years, both have specially training for the IV team on of the countries largest cancer centers and both do infusions for a living.
None of them aspirate a sub-q shot. Both said "no need too". I know my wife has done well over 100,000 injections/ports/iv etc.

I never aspirate and dont think its needed.

**C_Bino** · 11-23-2006, 09:24 PM

Originally Posted by MorganKane

I asked my wife and one of co workers. Both have been oncology nurses for over 15 years, both have specially training for the IV team on of the countries largest cancer centers and both do infusions for a living.
None of them aspirate a sub-q shot. Both said "no need too". I know my wife has done well over 100,000 injections/ports/iv etc.

I never aspirate and dont think its needed.

For what reason? And do you aspirate for IM?

Please explain this to me.

**cj1capp** · 11-23-2006, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

For what reason? And do you aspirate for IM?

Please explain this to me.

for a sub q shot no aspritation is needed because there are no large viens to inject into.the little viens cbino is talking about are called venules http://www3.umdnj.edu/histsweb/lab7/lab7venules.html ,and they are so small that blood must be broken down into smaller parts for transport. but a IM shot, well muscle is full of large viens and injecting oil or water intointradermal injection is a needle that you inject just under the skin, (epidermis.....hence the name dermal)" Think of how a TB test is done, the injection is given just below the skins surface, unlike most injections that are done intramuscular (deep into the muscle)"a vien can be deadly thats why you should aspirate for IM shoots

here is a step by step guide with pictures
http://www.cc.nih.gov/ccc/patient_ed...epubs/subq.pdf

**cj1capp** · 11-24-2006, 09:28 AM

any one have any more input.

**MorganKane** · 11-24-2006, 09:44 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

For what reason? And do you aspirate for IM?

Please explain this to me.

Since you hitting the fatty tissue there are no reason too. Also, injecting HGH into a vein would not really do much.

I do aspirate for IM.

What type of education do you have in this field?

**Gear** · 11-24-2006, 10:42 AM

I have to agree with everything cj1capp has said, and that's excatly why I never bothered to aspirate when doing Sub-Q injections. I just don't think it's necessary.

However, I see where Bino is heading though, certinly a safe direction for beginners and experienced users. The advice given by Bino defenitly won't hurt you and perhaps will keep you that little more safer than usual. So wether aspirating for Sub-Q is necessary or not, I would still absorb the information he has given on this.

-Gear

**C_Bino** · 11-24-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by MorganKane

Since you hitting the fatty tissue there are no reason too. Also, injecting HGH into a vein would not really do much.

I do aspirate for IM.

What type of education do you have in this field?

Well see this is my point...you do aspirate IM. Well there are no veins INSIDE muscle, sure just like you are pointing out there is no veins INSIDE fat. So you are merely aspirating IM incase you arent quite inside the muscle, same idea for sub-q my friend. I think doctors etc done apirate because they believe they know where to inject...so they sometimes dont do it for IM either. I dont HAVE to do it for IM because I have never once hit a blood vessel and know how to avoid them. So if you are good at sub-q as well sure you probably are fine...but my point is why take the chance. The bottom line is it is VERY possible to still hit a blood vessel while doing sub-q.

And cj1capp, yes the arterial blood vessels are deeper in the body than the veins that you can see "sticking out" but they are not too small to have to disregard aspiration. I mean when you get blood work done they stick it pretty much sub-q and draw the blood from a vein that is apparent on the surface. Why would it be so impossible to hit a vein like that with a slin pin? And why is it too small that you dont need to aspirate? I dont get it.

Like I said before im just tryin to keep people safe, i may not be 100% right or wrong, but people shouldnt be lead to believe you cant hit a vein sub-q or that the vein is too small to worry about.

**MorganKane** · 11-24-2006, 12:31 PM

C_bino,

Its hard to argue with your reasoning and one thing for sure is that it dont hurt to aspirate . I appreciate you looking out for everybody.

**cj1capp** · 11-24-2006, 12:37 PM

cbino i argee with your words "Like I said before im just tryin to keep people safe, i may not be 100% right or wrong, but people shouldnt be lead to believe you cant hit a vein sub-q or that the vein is too small to worry about."
better safe than sorry

**Hard Head** · 11-24-2006, 10:11 PM

It takes so little time and effort to aspirate , why would anyone not bother to?

Agreed that doctors and alot of nurses don't but guess what, they aren't injecting themselves! I get allergy shots and am friendly with the nurse who administers them in my Tri's. I asked her if she aspirates, the answer was never. She gives 100's of shots a day. I was getting cortisone inj on my ankls, ths freaking doc just jabbed the needle in and started poking it around and pumping the cortisone in, no aspiration, I wanted to slug him.

**C_Bino** · 11-24-2006, 10:32 PM

This was a great thread. Lots of good info from some smart ass bros on here. Im gonna do an HCG shot sub-q and not aspirate , if Im not on for a while kill Morgan and cj1 please.
LOL

**BigSwol** · 11-25-2006, 07:26 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

This was a great thread. Lots of good info from some smart ass bros on here. Im gonna do an HCG shot sub-q and not aspirate , if Im not on for a while kill Morgan and cj1 please.
LOL

Outstanding....I was thinkin the same thing.

But for real, thanks again bros. Good insight.

BigSwol

**BigSwol** · 11-25-2006, 07:29 AM

Not to beat a dead horse here....I was reading a thread and a bro suggested shooting his HCG , into his delts...with a slin pin. My quesiton here is how would you know if the slin pin was in muscle or fat, seeing as its only a 1/2 inch. All in all if you weren't in a vein but didn't penitrate the fatty tissue, one wouldn't really know right?

BigSwol

**Gear** · 11-25-2006, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by BigSwol

Not to beat a dead horse here....I was reading a thread and a bro suggested shooting his HCG , into his delts...with a slin pin. My quesiton here is how would you know if the slin pin was in muscle or fat, seeing as its only a 1/2 inch. All in all if you weren't in a vein but didn't penitrate the fatty tissue, one wouldn't really know right?

BigSwol

If you want it in the fat shoot it Sub-Q around the belly area. That is the most common way of shooting something Sub-Q. If you want it in the muscle, shoot it in a spot where there is where thin skin and not much fat (eg. bicep), this way you can be sure the needle is in the actual muscle and not the skin or the fat.

-Gear

**cj1capp** · 11-25-2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by C_Bino

This was a great thread. Lots of good info from some smart ass bros on here. Im gonna do an HCG shot sub-q and not aspirate , if Im not on for a while kill Morgan and cj1 please.
LOL

c bino you have me LOL, thanks for all your help.

**BigSwol** · 11-27-2006, 06:53 PM

Originally Posted by Gear

If you want it in the fat shoot it Sub-Q around the belly area. That is the most common way of shooting something Sub-Q. If you want it in the muscle, shoot it in a spot where there is where thin skin and not much fat (eg. bicep), this way you can be sure the needle is in the actual muscle and not the skin or the fat.

-Gear

Im with ya bro, I was just asking a hypothetical question.....very good though.

Thanks

BigSwol