Am I crazy?

**TheNextBigThing** · 01-25-2007, 10:01 PM

Before everyone jumps on the bandwagon and flames me to death let me explain to you what I am thinking. I am a semi elite athlete who has a very good chance of making alot of money in the near future if I play my cards right and I can only cycle AAS once a year (if im lucky). The problem is that as of late I have had trouble with injuries and keeping some extra body fat off (I know diet plays a key role, but I can't afford to lose any weight). I am in my early 20's and have have many years of consistent training and competition behind me. My body is really hurting as of late and I feel like I am going to need something to get a few more years of good competition out of myself. I have toyed around with the idea of a GH cycle for a little over a year now and I feel that if there is a time for it, this is probably it. I know because I am young I will need a higher dose and I was considering working my way up to 10 or 12 iu's cycling IGF and T4 for 10 months on and 3 off (maybe another cycle after, if it goes well). Money is no object if it helps me reach my goals. So there it is. What do you think? Worth it or not? What is your opinion?

**RedBaron** · 01-26-2007, 12:27 AM

I will avoid the age question and respond to the real question ... will HGH help you feel better to compete more aggressively? I think that is the real question you are wanting a response to.

The problem with using HGH as a pain reduction substance and to maintain joint health is somewhat complex. Because one of the immediate effects is an accelerated rate of your joint tissues reproducing (as well as some other physiologic changes), you will end up with a lot more fluid and water in your joints. For several months after the onset of the HGH cycle, your joints and connective tissues are probably going to feel a heck of a lot worse than they do right now. The end result after many months may well be some healthier joints ... but if you are actively competing, you may not have the luxury of feeling like crap for several months to get there.

The way I have used it has resulted in some improved joint and tissue health after a LOT of years of abuse, but I really felt BAD for about the first 6 months or so. My knees, elbows, shoulders, wrists, fingers, back, and the like felt so bad that I seriously considered scrapping the use of HGH forever. I rode it out past the first 6 months, and by 8-9 months into that first cycle my joints felt better than they had in years. But the first several months I had to even tone down my workout a tad because I hurt so freaking bad. For me it wasn't a huge deal ... I was done actively competing and was using HGH for long-term health, repair, and a way to continue growing. If I were still actively competing in a sport that really stressed my joints, I would have to pull back for that first several months ... there is no way I could have gone 100%. That was my experience.

I know there are others that don't react quite so drastically with respect to joint pain, and I know that following my suggested gradual roll-in of the dose will help somewhat in that regard, but my suggestion is if you are an elite level athlete with potential for a very lucrative contract in the near future, I would be careful with your consideration of HGH. While it may actually offer some relief, it may also swell up your joints at the wrong time ... and cost you a heck of a lot more than the expensive price of the HGH. That would be my two-bits for what it is worth. Best of luck to you.

**IBdmfkr** · 01-26-2007, 02:36 AM

What dosage have you been running RB and what brand if you don't mind me asking?

**crazyhorse666** · 01-26-2007, 04:26 AM

sounds like somthing that you realy need to think about. only you can make the right choice. goodluck.

***perfectbeast2001*** · 01-26-2007, 04:34 AM

If GH may present a problem for the first few months (which he obviously cant afford to have as he is currently a competitive athlete) then how about the use of IGF instead?

**RedBaron** · 01-26-2007, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by I**mfkr

What dosage have you been running RB and what brand if you don't mind me asking?

Currently or in the beginning? When I was having problems with joint pain and the like over those first cycles, I was running Genotropin mini-quicks ... two of their 0.8mg cartridges a day. When I added it all up and figured out what I was spending running those that way, I went hunting for a more cost effective alternative.

Now days I run more along the lines of 9-10 IU's a day (3 IU's 4am, 3 IU's 8am, 3 IU's 1pm) of the import offerings (Jintropin mostly) ... which seems to give me about what those two Genotropins did.

I am pretty much at a point where I am thinking I am going to "downsize" ... even HGH isn't able to make my joints believe they havent been carrying around a lot of USDA beef for many, many years now, and I am finished with any type of competitions anyway. My joints have been grumping at me for the last couple of years in increasingly vocal fashion, and I think I have figured out why many of my old school bodybuilding friends are significantly smaller than they were back in the day ... it just hurts too dang much to carry around that much muscle on old, tired joints.

When I start that process (probably sometime this year), I will drop back to 3-4 IU's of HGH just to general health purposes and run it at least several months out of the year (if not year round) ... I want to downsize, but not soften up and lose all traces of the muscle that took 20 years to build.

**TheNextBigThing** · 01-26-2007, 11:23 AM

Originally Posted by perfectbeast2001

If GH may present a problem for the first few months (which he obviously cant afford to have as he is currently a competitive athlete) then how about the use of IGF instead?

I have used IGF with success before, but I really didn't get any noticable effects until I hit 120mcg ed. At the price for those cycles (price really doesn't matter too much) I thought GH may be a better alternative because the IGF really didn't make me feel any better in terms of joint pain and some other nagging injuries.

Red Baron - I really appreciate your input on the pain GH causes because I did not know it could get that bad, but luckily for me my season wouldn't start until the last 4 months of GH use. That means I will have a tough time training during the off season though, which I will have to take into consideration.

Any other info or reccomendations anyone wants to pass along will be greatly appreciated.

**Columbus** · 01-26-2007, 11:30 AM

Risking the chance or opportunity to (as you state) do pro, seems absolutely ridiculous to me before you know the entire logisitics.

I mean, what if you are tested. What if you submit to a drug test? lie detetctor? Who knows, maybe you'll have to start off in Europe.......so many things, so many ways to blow it......do be another Clarrett....do it smart...see how the game plays out....then make your decision.

**TheNextBigThing** · 01-26-2007, 12:14 PM

Originally Posted by Columbus

Risking the chance or opportunity to (as you state) do pro, seems absolutely ridiculous to me before you know the entire logisitics.

I mean, what if you are tested. What if you submit to a drug test? lie detetctor? Who knows, maybe you'll have to start off in Europe.......so many things, so many ways to blow it......do be another Clarrett....do it smart...see how the game plays out....then make your decision.

There is no test for it. At least not yet, which is another reason I may want to run it earlier instead of after it is too late. But you are right, jumping into this without knowing everything would be a stupid thing to do and that is why I posted on here. I was hoping that everyone on here with anything to add, or maybe bring up something I didn't think of would post and then afterward I could make an informed decision on what to do.

**TheNextBigThing** · 01-26-2007, 07:00 PM

Bump for the evening crowd.

**jdavis2007** · 01-26-2007, 08:12 PM

I absolutely encourage good pharma use by responsible adults. Use for competing athletes can sometimes be an ethical debate, but in the end you are only trying to use GH to get your joints right. I would seriously consider mega-dosing Glucosamine/chondroitine while on GH. It will not completely halt joint probs described above while on GH, but it will help enough not to be a hindrance. Since they don't have a viable test for GH...I would actually stack IGF-Lr3 with GH as your joints will get to the "sweetspot" faster with the two...plus you will gain some strength, etc. Hope this helps....

**TheNextBigThing** · 01-26-2007, 08:27 PM

Originally Posted by jdavis2007

I absolutely encourage good pharma use by responsible adults. Use for competing athletes can sometimes be an ethical debate, but in the end you are only trying to use GH to get your joints right. I would seriously consider mega-dosing Glucosamine/chondroitine while on GH. It will not completely halt joint probs described above while on GH, but it will help enough not to be a hindrance. Since they don't have a viable test for GH...I would actually stack IGF-Lr3 with GH as your joints will get to the "sweetspot" faster with the two...plus you will gain some strength, etc. Hope this helps....

It definitely helps, because in all reality, I pretty much never considered the use of glucosamine while on GH simply because I thought it would pale in comparison to GH itself. I was also planning on running a few cycles of IGF while on with a couple of months in between each. Pretty much the only thing holding me back from starting this now after everyones replys and my own research is me hoping that I am not sentancing myself to some type of early and painful death or disfigurement of some sort.

Again, thanks everyone for your replys and hopefully I can get a few more.