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  1. #1
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    igf -> endurance?!

    so as an endurance athlete I was wondering if IGF-1 works PWO after an endurance exersize (cardio, cycling 3hours)?

    I also use HGH (brust cycles) and Insuline (PWO after weight training)

    the whole point is I want the hyperplasia and new muscle cells, but I need slow twitch muscle cells instead of fast cells (endurance athlete)!

    (and off course it's easier, in this way I can take 3xInsuline PWO weight training and 4xIGF PWO endurance training per week!)

    am I thinking correctly?



    scheme;

    mo; Insulin . Weighttraining
    tu; IGF End. Tr.
    we; Insulin. Weighttraining
    tu; HGH (3x2IU)
    IGF End. Tr.
    fr; Insulin Weighttraining
    sa; IGF End. Tr.
    tu; HGH (3x2IU)
    IGF End. Tr.

    I'm also not sure if 2x6IU burst per week are enough, but it's my 1st HGH cycle, I'm still young and 70kg and don't have the money to do 3x15IU lol
    Last edited by coureurtje112; 11-16-2007 at 06:17 PM.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by coureurtje112 View Post
    so as an endurance athlete I was wondering if IGF-1 works PWO after an endurance exersize (cardio, cycling 3hours)?

    I also use HGH (brust cycles) and Insuline (PWO after weight training)

    the whole point is I want the hyperplasia and new muscle cells, but I need slow twitch muscle cells instead of fast cells (endurance athlete)!

    (and off course it's easier, in this way I can take 3xInsuline PWO weight training and 4xIGF PWO endurance training per week!)

    am I thinking correctly?



    scheme;

    mo; Insulin . Weighttraining
    tu; IGF End. Tr.
    we; Insulin. Weighttraining
    tu; HGH (3x2IU)
    IGF End. Tr.
    fr; Insulin Weighttraining
    sa; IGF End. Tr.
    tu; HGH (3x2IU)
    IGF End. Tr.

    I'm also not sure if 2x6IU burst per week are enough, but it's my 1st HGH cycle, I'm still young and 70kg and don't have the money to do 3x15IU lol
    Im so confused, what I can tell you is check your blood sugar.I'm on the other end of spectrum in your sport, but while on IGF short efforts are too long.Your throwing in insulin and HGH which both effect your glucose and then your going to try to pile on major miles while lifting.Can you say BONK!!
    I think the muscle cells you produce is based on your gentics not your exercise,but how you train those muscles cells is up to you.Which is all that really matters.If you do take the IGF you can cut your insulin dose in half.I'm sure that gear can help with HGH dosing and if think of anything else to help you I will post it.What catagory are you and do have good winter plan aready outlined?

  3. #3
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    cat. high enough

    "think the muscle cells you produce is based on your gentics not your exercise,but how you train those muscles cells is up to you"

    -> so this would mean I will get relatively more slow fibers then an other person anyway because of my genetics, the type of exersize done doesn't matter as long as the IGF-1 receptors are activated? but now the question is how do they get activated? only my muscle breakdown or also by muscle strain after a good 120km cycling?

    -------

    Fiber Type and Performance
    Our muscle fiber type may influence what sports we are naturally good at or whether we are fast or strong. Olympic athletes tend to fall into sports that match their genetic makeup. Olympic sprinters have been shown to possess about 80 percent fast twitch fibers, while those who excel in marathons tend to have 80 percent slow twitch fibers.

    Are Athletes Born or Built?

    Can Training Change Fiber Type?
    This is not entirely understood, and research is still looking at that question. There is some evidence showing that human skeletal muscle may switch fiber types from "fast" to "slow" due to training.

    Keep in mind that genetic differences may be dramatic at the elite levels of athletic competition. But following the principles of conditioning can dramatically improve personal performance of a typical athlete.

    With consistent endurance training, muscle fibers can develop more and improve their ability to cope with and adapt to the stress of exercise.





    AND

    Although there is no direct scientific evidence of localised muscle growth, it has been suggested that IGF-1 receptors are upregulated specifically to the surface of cells that have undergone strenuous exercise, thus the reasoning for site-specific injections. Many users claim to see site-specific growth, however this as of yet cannot be validated as Long R3IGF-1's mode of action.
    ok this could be cycling

    When you train intensely and break down muscle tissue, the damage causes an increase in IGF-1 receptor concentrations. These receptors are produced in an effort to reapair the damaged tissue. These newly formed receptors are extremely responsive to IGF-1(for a duration of time). When you inject into the muscle just trained or even subcutaneously(under the skin) of that muscle, the exogenous IGF-1 has a much better chance of circulating to those new receptors first, before being transfered across the body and ending up attaching to insulin receptors and IGF-1 receptors in other areas.
    not...

  4. #4
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    keep in mind that when I see you bodybuilder guys it looks but I think 10kg extra muscle mass on my legs won't make me cycle a bit faster!

  5. #5
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    [QUOTE=coureurtje112;3708511]cat. high enough

    "think the muscle cells you produce is based on your gentics not your exercise,but how you train those muscles cells is up to you"

    -> so this would mean I will get relatively more slow fibers then an other person anyway because of my genetics, the type of exersize done doesn't matter as long as the IGF-1 receptors are activated? but now the question is how do they get activated? only my muscle breakdown or also by muscle strain after a good 120km cycling?

    -------

    Fiber Type and Performance
    Our muscle fiber type may influence what sports we are naturally good at or whether we are fast or strong. Olympic athletes tend to fall into sports that match their genetic makeup. Olympic sprinters have been shown to possess about 80 percent fast twitch fibers, while those who excel in marathons tend to have 80 percent slow twitch fibers.

    Are Athletes Born or Built?

    Can Training Change Fiber Type?
    This is not entirely understood, and research is still looking at that question. There is some evidence showing that human skeletal muscle may switch fiber types from "fast" to "slow" due to training.

    Keep in mind that genetic differences may be dramatic at the elite levels of athletic competition. But following the principles of conditioning can dramatically improve personal performance of a typical athlete.

    With consistent endurance training, muscle fibers can develop more and improve their ability to cope with and adapt to the stress of exercise.





    AND

    Although there is no direct scientific evidence of localised muscle growth, it has been suggested that IGF-1 receptors are upregulated specifically to the surface of cells that have undergone strenuous exercise, thus the reasoning for site-specific injections. Many users claim to see site-specific growth, however this as of yet cannot be validated as Long R3IGF-1's mode of action.
    ok this could be cycling

    When you train intensely and break down muscle tissue, the damage causes an increase in IGF-1 receptor concentrations. These receptors are produced in an effort to reapair the damaged tissue. These newly formed receptors are extremely responsive to IGF-1(for a duration of time). When you inject into the muscle just trained or even subcutaneously(under the skin) of that muscle, the exogenous IGF-1 has a much better chance of circulating to those new receptors first, before being transfered across the body and ending up attaching to insulin receptors and IGF-1 receptors in other areas.
    not...[/QUOTE

    what is your question?Whats the rant about IGF and training all about?I just said check your sugar.Not IGF doesn't work or can't produce more cells or train them.
    Where are you?Not to many Americans using kilometers

  6. #6
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    why should I check my sugar?

    my q; does this scheme make sense;


    scheme;

    mo; Weighttraining Insulin .
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    we; Weighttraining Insulin
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    fr; Weighttraining Insulin
    sa; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    su; Endurance. Tr...IGF

    tuesday+sundag HGH 3x2IU=6IU/day or someting like that (bursts? or do I need higher dosage?)
    Last edited by coureurtje112; 11-17-2007 at 03:12 PM.

  7. #7
    Nickster#1's Avatar
    Nickster#1 is offline Banned
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    When you inject into the muscle just trained or even subcutaneously(under the skin) of that muscle




    You never inject under the skin. you either go straight into the muscle, or you go SQ. SQ is going into your fat tissue, not under your skin. And in my humble opinion, your wasting your time and money with at least the HGH. twice a week?

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by coureurtje112 View Post
    why should I check my sugar?

    my q; does this scheme make sense;


    scheme;

    mo; Weighttraining Insulin .
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    we; Weighttraining Insulin
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    fr; Weighttraining Insulin
    sa; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    su; Endurance. Tr...IGF

    tuesday+sundag HGH 3x2IU or someting like that (bursts? or do I need higher dosage?)
    I'm not sure why a guy that doesn't want bulk up wants to take insulin.If it were me I would dose IGF after every workout. You won't build or train extra fast twitch fibers because of doing IGF after weight training unless your doing explosive movements.
    The sugar comes back to hgh and IGF which with some people causes Hypoglycemia.If it were me I would dose hgh 5-6 days at 2-3 ius per day IGF am and pwo to keep levels in blood constistant 40-80mcg daily and ditch the insulin all together, but thats up to you I just know to me the benifits of insulin do not away the sides.
    The reason asked about your cat is if your in the lower ranking than deca is great for endurance if your not going to get tested.I had unbeilevable results on it.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickster#1 View Post
    When you inject into the muscle just trained or even subcutaneously(under the skin) of that muscle




    You never inject under the skin. you either go straight into the muscle, or you go SQ. SQ is going into your fat tissue, not under your skin. And in my humble opinion, your wasting your time and money with at least the HGH. twice a week?
    I agree

  10. #10
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nickster#1 View Post
    When you inject into the muscle just trained or even subcutaneously(under the skin) of that muscle




    You never inject under the skin. you either go straight into the muscle, or you go SQ. SQ is going into your fat tissue, not under your skin. And in my humble opinion, your wasting your time and money with at least the HGH. twice a week?
    you're right about SQ! (the text came from internet, i think they mean also SQ instead of "under the skin")

    twice a week? of 3times then? the idea is to mimic the HGH levels when being young (also coming out in bursts), by high dosage HGH 2-3 a week.
    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...light=HIGH+HGH
    Last edited by coureurtje112; 11-17-2007 at 03:07 PM.

  11. #11
    coureurtje112 is offline New Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jonnycerious View Post
    I'm not sure why a guy that doesn't want bulk up wants to take insulin .If it were me I would dose IGF after every workout. You won't build or train extra fast twitch fibers because of doing IGF after weight training unless your doing explosive movements.
    The sugar comes back to hgh and IGF which with some people causes Hypoglycemia.If it were me I would dose hgh 5-6 days at 2-3 ius per day IGF am and pwo to keep levels in blood constistant 40-80mcg daily and ditch the insulin all together, but thats up to you I just know to me the benifits of insulin do not away the sides.
    The reason asked about your cat is if your in the lower ranking than deca is great for endurance if your not going to get tested.I had unbeilevable results on it.
    ok tnx. I think I better don't take chanches when testing, i use winny and testprop with detection time +-2weeks.

    ok I'm aware of the risks of getting a hypo and I know what PWO food to take by using Insuline,IGF.

    I don't know if you're right about keeping IGF levels constant. There are some studies that show IGF receptors need at least 24hours to recover from processing injected IGF!

    I can off course run HGH also on say mondays and fridays maybe this is better, hgh+insuline is good combi regarding sides and this way i will keep igf constant troughout the week (hgh->igf peak after t=2h) but with IGF about EOD and HGH bursts twice a week

    mo; Weighttraining Insulin.
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    we; Weighttraining Insulin
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    fr; Weighttraining Insulin
    sa; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    su; Endurance. Tr...IGF

    monday+friday HGH 6IU

    6IU each day will be a way to low dosage reading this. but WTF, 15iu a day, your body doesn't know how to handle more then 3iu injected in one time. 5injects a day WTF.

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...light=HIGH+HGH
    Last edited by coureurtje112; 11-17-2007 at 03:12 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by coureurtje112 View Post
    ok tnx. I think I better don't take chanches when testing, i use winny and testprop with detection time +-2weeks.

    ok I'm aware of the risks of getting a hypo and I know what PWO food to take by using Insuline,IGF.

    I don't know if you're right about keeping IGF levels constant. There are some studies that show IGF receptors need at least 24hours to recover from processing injected IGF!

    I can off course run HGH also on say mondays and fridays maybe this is better, hgh+insuline is good combi regarding sides and this way i will keep igf constant troughout the week (hgh->igf peak after t=2h) but with IGF about EOD and HGH bursts twice a week

    mo; Weighttraining Insulin .
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    we; Weighttraining Insulin
    tu; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    fr; Weighttraining Insulin
    sa; Endurance. Tr...IGF
    su; Endurance. Tr...IGF

    monday+friday HGH 6IU

    6IU each day will be a way to low dosage reading this. but WTF, 15iu a day, your body doesn't know how to handle more then 3iu injected in one time. 5injects a day WTF.

    http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...light=HIGH+HGH
    Sounds like you have a plan and youve done some research.How did you like winny?tabs or inject?

  13. #13
    Gear's Avatar
    Gear is offline HGH/IGF/Insulin Forum ~ AR-Hall of Famer
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    I have read this whole thread and I have a headache. Let's discuss this topic on more simple terms.

    As an athelete who is a cyclist, you will need endurance and hyperplasia benefits.

    If you are after endurance benefits, you will need to concentrate on recovering faster. Having said this, insulin would be your best option in this case as insulin will force feed your muscle cells with nutrients which will give you a better recovery. A better recovery means less muscle loss, and if you are after endurance benefits a minimum amount of cell loss is defenitely a good thing. So, take your insulin post weight training and post endurance training. I usually don't recomend taking insulin post endurance training but since your are cycling for 3 hours, after those 3 hours your body will defenitely be starving for fuel to recover even if your session wasn't intense. Insulin will certainly assist in pushing that needed fuel into cells at this time.

    When it comes to hyperplasia, both HGH and IGF can be used. However, you don't necessaraly need to use both of these compounds. The creation of new cells can lead to weight gain, and the last thing a cyclist will want is excess weight. However, a few excess muscle cells will certainly give you the ability to go for longer so you will need to find a "fine line" between gaining weight and endurance benefits. HGH/IGF aren't the type of drugs which stack on weight right away, but using these compounds on long terms basis will certainly lead to weight gain.

    When using insulin, as stated above use it after endurance and weight training. When using HGH, you will need to use it ED, 5/2, 6/1, EOD or 3x/p. Using HGH once or twice per week would create minimim unnoticable benefits meaning you would get nothing from it, so you would only be wasting your money.

    -Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear View Post
    I have read this whole thread and I have a headache. Let's discuss this topic on more simple terms.

    As an athelete who is a cyclist, you will need endurance and hyperplasia benefits.

    If you are after endurance benefits, you will need to concentrate on recovering faster. Having said this, insulin would be your best option in this case as insulin will force feed your muscle cells with nutrients which will give you a better recovery. A better recovery means less muscle loss, and if you are after endurance benefits a minimum amount of cell loss is defenitely a good thing. So, take your insulin post weight training and post endurance training. I usually don't recomend taking insulin post endurance training but since your are cycling for 3 hours, after those 3 hours your body will defenitely be starving for fuel to recover even if your session wasn't intense. Insulin will certainly assist in pushing that needed fuel into cells at this time.

    When it comes to hyperplasia, both HGH and IGF can be used. However, you don't necessaraly need to use both of these compounds. The creation of new cells can lead to weight gain, and the last thing a cyclist will want is excess weight. However, a few excess muscle cells will certainly give you the ability to go for longer so you will need to find a "fine line" between gaining weight and endurance benefits. HGH/IGF aren't the type of drugs which stack on weight right away, but using these compounds on long terms basis will certainly lead to weight gain.

    When using insulin, as stated above use it after endurance and weight training. When using HGH, you will need to use it ED, 5/2, 6/1, EOD or 3x/p. Using HGH once or twice per week would create minimim unnoticable benefits meaning you would get nothing from it, so you would only be wasting your money.

    -Gear
    where have you been?You have shed new light on insulin for myself.Now I believe insulin could help me as well.Im a sprinter but sesions can 3-4 hours long in the gym and on the road(reapted efforts at maxium intensity).With recovery there is strength and power to be gained.Do you think I could add it to the CJC-1295 without gaining to much weight?

  15. #15
    Gear's Avatar
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    Jonny,

    I am still here . My weekends are very buzy so I don't get much time to get online. Monday through to Friday I am here pretty much full time.

    When using insulin , in most cases it's fairly difficult to gain weight. The only time you will gain weight is if you consume excess carbohydrates as these excess carbs will be stored as fat. If you follow a proper insulin diet protocol, you are more than likely not gain any weight and receive maximum recovery benfits. Insulin is a wonderfull drug when it comes to recovery, no question about it.

    If there is a compound you are using which has the potential for weight gain and recovery gains, then as I said above, you need to find that "fine line" between gaining weight and recovering only. This goes for any compound you use. I guess you need to go by how you feel. You may gain weight and gain great recovery without losing any endurance. Like I said, go by how you feel.

    If you want to discuss this any further please start another thread.

    -Gear

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear View Post
    Jonny,

    I am still here . My weekends are very buzy so I don't get much time to get online. Monday through to Friday I am here pretty much full time.

    When using insulin , in most cases it's fairly difficult to gain weight. The only time you will gain weight is if you consume excess carbohydrates as these excess carbs will be stored as fat. If you follow a proper insulin diet protocol, you are more than likely not gain any weight and receive maximum recovery benfits. Insulin is a wonderfull drug when it comes to recovery, no question about it.

    If there is a compound you are using which has the potential for weight gain and recovery gains, then as I said above, you need to find that "fine line" between gaining weight and recovering only. This goes for any compound you use. I guess you need to go by how you feel. You may gain weight and gain great recovery without losing any endurance. Like I said, go by how you feel.

    If you want to discuss this any further please start another thread.

    -Gear
    Thanks Gear,this place would be a 3 ring circus without you, and I would be a retarded dancing monkey that doesn't know s#@$!
    I will start another thread tomorrow after read a few more profiles.......

  17. #17
    Gear's Avatar
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    Thanks Jonny, always glad to help. We'll continue you're topic when you're ready.

    -Gear

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