Ok ENOUGH Speculating...

**The Deuce** · 10-18-2009, 07:17 PM

Everything I read contradicts the thing I read before... That's why I love this place so much.. You have a friggen question.. YOU ASK IT.. And it gets Answered... so ... I have very important.. Life or Death type questions I guess you could say..

1) How Necessary.. or.. umm HOW IMPORTANT is it that you MUST run Insulin with you HGH Cycle. Now I know it is important.. but here it is, My first run with HGH.. I know HOW DANGEROUS Insulin can be if it is not done correctly. Trust me, I will NOT do any thing if I am not 100% sure on it.. especially if the end result could be my DEATH. So.. I know as it sits.. I would like to run HGH without the Insulin right now.. I am going to run t3 with it.. Just because I know it is Important.. I will be running at least MINIMAL 200mgs of Test Per week also. But it's the SLIN that freaks the sh1t out of me. I don't wanna mess it up and oooohhh COMA... ohhh DEAD... I have read it's 100% safe with everyone if the run of slin is 10iu insulin taken 30 minutes after GH injection. But how can that be a guaranteed safe dose for EVERYONE to take?? How can someone write that and have it be ACCURATE.. Every human body is different.

Here's just a piece of something I read somewhere that has me thinking about the whole SLIN + HGH combo...

"The timing of GH and insulin injections is critical. If insulin is injected before the GH, your pancreas will stop release of insulin monitoring due to the exogenous source. GH when injected will mobilize stored glycogen release which will turn into glucose for energy. This will cause a rapid rise in blood sugar levels that will not shut down or stop rising due to the feedback loop being momentarily cut off. You will go hyperglycemic and end up in the hospital. You must first inject your GH, then the insulin; this will cause a rise in glucose release by the GH and will be controlled and shuttled into muscle tissue for repair by the later injection of insulin"

My One and Only Major question on this SLIN issue is.. CAN I RUN AN HGH CYCLE WITHOUT SLIN right NOW AND HAVE IT BE A SUCCESSFUL RUN OF GROWTH HORMONE???

2) Ok this question isn't as involved... but still a question nonetheless.. T3. Here's what I know SO FAR... The Use of some type of T3 hormone is critical since GH use will severely lower thyroid levels. Small exogenous sources are necessary to maintain normal levels and 25 mcg ed is sufficient. This will also aid in body fat loss by maintaining proper thyroid functioning.

IS THAT AN ACCURATE ASSUMPTION OF HOW TO PROPERLY KEEP A PROPERLY MAINTAINED THYROID FUNCTION???

3)Ok not so much a QUESTION but a statement overall.. as the DEADLINE approaches of my first SUB-Q inject of the wonderful compound HGH looms in the distance of ONLY 2 weeks away.. The countdown has begun so to speak. I know how to adequately ramp myself up safely so as to avoid possible sides and I KNOW how to back it OFF if Sides do Occur...

What are the MAJOR things I should watch out for... I heard along my travels.. BIRTHMARKS.. watch them and make sure they do not change in size, shape, color, tenderness, or any other different possible changes and IF this does happen.. STOP the GH immediately and seek advice from a medical professional...

IS THIS ACCURATE INFO?? Or more Old Wives tales made to scare and ward people OFF...

In the SAME context.. it is said to make note of ANY changes to ANYTHING.. ON THE SKIN.. in the skin.. and LUMPS that develop.. and skin changes in the pigment.. ALL TRUE?? And if it is.. HOW COMMON??

I know I am being a WORRY WART but I am trying to cover all my bases to be safe... Wouldn't ALL of You do the same exact thing if you couldn't get straight answers??

Thanks for your time bro's and I highly appreciate it.. and I will of course keep EVERYONE updated on how it goes.

P.S.- Just so ya'll KNOW... I will be injecting EVERY SINGLE DAY.. No 5on2off protocol.. No 6on1off... JUST STRAIGHT 7 days... No exceptions.. 1st dose in the AM at 4a.m. and second dose either After I workout.. or at High Noon. I will start at 2iu's daily and slowly ramp up by .5iu's per day/ every week.. BUT I will run 2iu's per day on 1 injection a day for 4 weeks straight.. then Week 5- 2.5iu's.. Week 6- 3iu's ED (and at this point I will split to TWICE a day Injects of 1.5iu's on each inject.. and so on and so on until I hit my sweet spot of either 6iu's-7iu's ED...

So there ya Have it.. The DEUCE is taking the plunge and is making sure all his ducks are in a row before he commences.. Once again I appreciate ALL OF THE HELP EVERYONE HAS EXTENDED MY WAY ALONG THIS JOURNEY.. I CAN NOT WAIT UNTIL IT FINALLY IS GOING ON.. I believe it to be my Key.. So here we go... I can't wait to hear the responses and all the info that you guys will be able to set me straight on... THANKS A MILLION. I know I have said it a lot, but HEY without you guy'ss help.. THIS WOULD NOT BE POSSIBLE !!! So Thanks !!! Haha

**Someguy123** · 10-18-2009, 07:48 PM

where are you getting your info from?? NO, it is not at all important to run slin with GH. you can do it if you want to. and it will certainly give you some nice gains, if you have the right diet. but it is by no means neccesary at all, and i have no idea who would ever tell you that??

i cant give you any info on T3, since ive never used it. im naturally lean so it serves no purpose for me really. id rather take clen personally.

theres nothing to "ramp up to" with HGH. just start taking it. in the unlikely event that you develop some bad sides, then just cut back your dosage. what do you plan on dosing to start with?? everyone is different, but from what ive read, it seems most guys dont develop all the joint pains until theyre running higher doses, like 6iu a day or so. i run 3-4iu a day, and never have a problem.

edit, i just noticed you wrote down your dosing plans. and they look plenty safe as far as im concerned.

**The Deuce** · 10-18-2009, 08:58 PM

Thank you !! Appreciate it brother man.. You give me AAS and I am knowledgeable as all hell.. throw my in a convo about HGH/SLIN/IGF-1 or anything of that nature and Im lost.

As far as the whole... SLIN thing, it is info that I have read here and there and that's why I made this thread because NO ONE COULD GIVE ME A SOLID ANSWER where ever I searched and researched at.. it was always.. YES IT'S A NECESSITY or.. YOU WON'T SEE HARDLY ANY CHANGES IN MUSCULAR STRUCTURE IF YOU DON'T USE IT ... OR this was the best one.. IF YOU DON'T IMPLICATE Slin FROM THE VERY BEGINNING OF YOUR HGH CYCLE.. You will either A) Develop Pancreatic Cancer quickly **I never personally believed this one** or B) Make yourself extremely prone to developing a diabetes illness **This one I actually thought held truth**

Like I said, I want to make sure I have ALL my bases covered so A) I am safe and healthy during my course of administration of HGH B) That I actually do it correctly and yield the proper benefits out of it that I should.

T3 I am going to implicate because at 25mcgs per day.. it really will not do any harm at all.. not really looking for added fat loss, just looking to keep my thyroid kickin' at full throttle...

Clenbuterol is something I can not use for another 8 weeks MINIMUM because I am on a medication that interacts with it.. I will be 100% weened off that medicine in 6 weeks.. and I am going to allow a good 2 weeks of time to elapse before I even ponder the possibility of that substance.. I might not ever use it.. but if I do.. I wanna be completely clear of the medicine that directly interacts with it... ya know??

Yah, I am going up to 6iu's per day.. and seeings how I have NEVER ran HGH before I dont think i'll go slammin' 6iu's per day to start off.. that could be bad.. lol.. I am gonna stick to my ramp up.. I AM IN NO RUSH.. I believe the HGH to be a permanent placement in my supplementation just like my TRT. At least that is the plan.. obviously if something comes up and I have to stop.. then so be it.. but for now. I see no foreseeable reason to ever have the need to come off until my Bodybuilding career is over and even at that point i'll probably run LOW DOSE for it's ANTI-AGING Benefits... ya never know.. the future and what it holds.. well it's a funny thing.. YA JUST NEVER KNOW.

**j4ever41** · 10-19-2009, 08:11 PM

yeah i think you would be best served to ramp up,imo you could ramp up a little quicker such as 2iu the first 2-3 weeks then increase 1iu per week until you hit you goal,not t3 but i have taken t4 while on gh ( 50mcg ) and had good results,i have never taken slin but running as you are planning there is no need to,the couple of peps i know that are using slin are doing so post wo with 10 + iu of gh,goodluck.

**Someguy123** · 10-19-2009, 08:15 PM

after reading this thread. im getting motivated to do some reasearch on T3. im starting a 6 month cycle of GH tomorow. this will be the third time ive done gh. and ive never read anything about this thyroid slow down, while on gh??

**The Deuce** · 10-20-2009, 04:15 PM

From what I do KNOW is that T3 is not an absolute necessity but it is very important aspect and AIDS in the whole process.. but just a REPLACEMENT dose of even 12.5mcgs is sufficient .. 25mcgs being the OPTIMAL DOSAGE according to the literature I have read.. I mean.. it definitely CAN NOT HURT.. especially if you factor in minimal of TRT dosing of Testosterone ... the T3 won't take away any if it all muscle...

I dunno all I have read says it's GREAT to utilize it with your HGH cycle and I guess until I read multiple times otherwise then I am going to stick with the plan of 25mcgs per day...

Plus for me.. it WONT hurt to lose a bit more BF%... SITTING at 12%ish in the OFF-SEASON isn't HORRIBLE.. but I wouldn't mind being 9-10% in the Off-season and 2-3% on COMP DAY.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 10-20-2009, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

Plus for me.. it WONT hurt to lose a bit more BF%... SITTING at 12%ish in the OFF-SEASON isn't HORRIBLE.. but I wouldn't mind being 9-10% in the Off-season and 2-3% on COMP DAY.

Do you think that's a reasonable goal???

.... 2% is extremely low. few can get down to that %.

Post a updated pic please? (not calling you out at all bro; just would like to gauge where you're at now. and also to gauge what you look like prior to GH.)

**The Deuce** · 10-21-2009, 09:10 PM

Originally Posted by Vitruvian-Man

Do you think that's a reasonable goal???

.... 2% is extremely low. few can get down to that %.

Post a updated pic please? (not calling you out at all bro; just would like to gauge where you're at now. and also to gauge what you look like prior to GH.)

I really think it is a reasonable goal.. with a proper diet and cardio regimen, and training protocol.. yes carb depleted.. and all the water sucked right out of 2-3% is NOT too unbelievable.. My buddy who just won MR. MAINE was 2.2% and started 16 weeks ago at 11%

That was HIM ... at 2.2%.. and he is gonna help me on my first CUT DOWN to that bf% range..

And like I said... Not like I am gonna be able to do it.. but that's the goal I am aiming for.. If I set a goal for like 5% I am obviously gonna blow by that with ease.. why NOT set the bar HIGH and try my damndest to get as LOW as HUMANLY possible for DAY of competition !?!? Ya know??

As far as current Picture. I will work on that.. it's been awhile, but I am sitting comfortably at 12. In off season.. BULKING.. So it's not really ANYTHING pretty to look at.. really I am my own worst critic but I KNOW I HAVE IMPROVED SINCE LAST ROUND OF PICS 2 months ago.. but here is where I was 2 months ago....

So you figure in probably.. 2% less body fat.. I have been slamming the CHEST so that's Popping more.. and well.. all around in the past two months has FILLED in a lot more.. but... I hate pictures.. I don't think they ever do someone real justice.. but hey.. it's not like you can stop by and see for yourself.. ya know.. on the other end tho... You are right.. I need updated pics.. i will do them THE DAY THAT I DO MY FIRST HGH Inject and then do a comparison in a 6 month time frame.. How's that sound? Countdown is underway.. I start the HGH on HALLOWEEN !!!! Mwahahahaha !!!!

lol

**j4ever41** · 10-22-2009, 01:09 AM

hi Deuce, what i meant was i have not taken t3,im sure you be okay 25mcg with no muscle loss

**Someguy123** · 10-23-2009, 11:33 AM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

You are right.. I need updated pics.. i will do them THE DAY THAT I DO MY FIRST HGH Inject and then do a comparison in a 6 month time frame.. How's that sound? Countdown is underway.. I start the HGH on HALLOWEEN !!!! Mwahahahaha !!!!

lol

thats exactly what im doing. i took pics last saturday. and started my GH on monday. i was a little choked though. nobody in town does bf% measuring here. so i have to rely on guesstimation from my pics. come may though, ill be able to see what kind of progress ive made. cant wait

**The Deuce** · 10-23-2009, 07:45 PM

Isn't it EXCITING... Progress and Results !?!?!? I love Watching my body changing FROM the things I do to make it that way.. A tweak in a DIET.. Or a Change in Workout Regimen... Or adding NEW and Different Compounds !!! GOD I LOVE BODYBUILDING... The only thing better than that is My Kick ass Family (Wife, Kids, and Dog)

**Someguy123** · 10-24-2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

Isn't it EXCITING... Progress and Results !?!?!? I love Watching my body changing FROM the things I do to make it that way.. A tweak in a DIET.. Or a Change in Workout Regimen... Or adding NEW and Different Compounds !!! GOD I LOVE BODYBUILDING... The only thing better than that is My Kick ass Family (Wife, Kids, and Dog)

i do love bodybuilding for my own satisfaction. but my competitive days are over for good. just not worth the stress on the body, for a little trophy. but all you guys that have the motivation and drive to keep doing it. i commend you.

**The Deuce** · 10-24-2009, 12:45 PM

Well bro, I am not going for JUST A COUPLE of Little Trophies brotha.. God Blesses me with the Genetics to hold the MUSCLE MASS necessary to be successful.. I am not saying I am going to be the next MR. O but, I do believe I can make a career out of it.. in fact I know I can, My progress in just the past 8 months has been un-REAL of course the fact that I HAD PREVIOUSLY been Larger than I am now probably has a lot to do with it.. I am overcoming a bad motorcycle accident that almost killed me.. but NOW I AM BACK.. and I am back FULL FORCE !!!

I will go FAR in this Sport.. I promise EVERYONE that...

And if you don't have that kind of drive to succeed.. The seriously.. WTF is the Point.. Ya know???

**Someguy123** · 10-24-2009, 02:07 PM

Originally Posted by The Deuce

Well bro, I am not going for JUST A COUPLE of Little Trophies brotha.. God Blesses me with the Genetics to hold the MUSCLE MASS necessary to be successful.. I am not saying I am going to be the next MR. O but, I do believe I can make a career out of it.. in fact I know I can, My progress in just the past 8 months has been un-REAL of course the fact that I HAD PREVIOUSLY been Larger than I am now probably has a lot to do with it.. I am overcoming a bad motorcycle accident that almost killed me.. but NOW I AM BACK.. and I am back FULL FORCE !!!

I will go FAR in this Sport.. I promise EVERYONE that...

And if you don't have that kind of drive to succeed.. The seriously.. WTF is the Point.. Ya know???

yup i agree. when people ask me about doin comps, cause they know i used to compete. i tell them that unless they have the genetics, that they know they could get a pro card within 2-3 years. its just not worth it. if you do one or 2 comps, so you have some pics to show your grandkids, than thats cool.

i have the genetics to make it. but i know what kind of drug use is required to stay competitive nowadays. and im not willing to put my body through that. i havent competed since 2002, and since then competition has gotten extremely stiff. not to mention, i dont wanna give up my social life either. which is the reason i dont fight MMA anymore either.

BTW, i was doing some searching. and from what i found, T3 combined with GH is basically counterproductive, unless you plan to use it as strictly a fat cutting cycle. id have to go read the study again, but it was something along the lines that all the nitrogen retaining qualities of GH. get squashed when you take T3, due to it lowering your igf-1 levels.

**The Deuce** · 10-24-2009, 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by Someguy123

BTW, i was doing some searching. and from what i found, T3 combined with GH is basically counterproductive, unless you plan to use it as strictly a fat cutting cycle. id have to go read the study again, but it was something along the lines that all the nitrogen retaining qualities of GH. get squashed when you take T3, due to it lowering your igf-1 levels.

REALLY !?!??!

This is where I grabbed my info from, but yah I could use a lil bit extra drop in FAT.. not right now of course because it doesn't matter.. gotta love the OFF-SEASON... But here scope this out...

"For the slight thyroid support that may be desired:
conservative - take nothing
moderate - t-100x, bladderwrack, coleus forskolin, selenium, zinc, chromium, copper
aggressive - T3 at a dose of 12.5 - 25 mcgs or T4 at 100mcgs per day."

**Someguy123** · 10-25-2009, 08:01 AM

here is one excerpt i found from a study.

"...What may not be an effective strategy to maintain muscle mass during a T3 cycle is the use of exogenous growth hormone (GH). Studies have shown that when GH and T3 are administered concurrently, the increased nitrogen retention normally associated with GH use is abolished. This has been attributed to the observation that T3 increases levels of insulin like growth factor binding protein, reducing the bioavailability of igf-1 (14). Nevertheless, GH has fat burning properties independent of igf-1, so using GH with T3 would act additively to speed fat burning, but with little if any preservation of lean body mass. So again, if GH is used in conjunction with T3, anabolic steroid /prohormone use would be indicated...."

i couldnt find the full study. but here is the link that was posted with it. it just goes to the main site, but im sure the article is there if you search hard enough.

http://magazine.*************.net/pa...100&issueID=10

NM, looks like the link is blocked. ill PM it to you.