Test + HGH + Slin

[Livinlean]

Below is my proposed off season cycle. I will be starting this after I am done competing which could be in a couple weeks or in 2 months, if all goes well. Some of the stuff below is what my coach recommended and then I've gone and added extra things such as T4 which Ive read is important thanks to these forums. Now Im not trying to undermine my coach in anyway, more so just trying to learn this stuff for myself. I have bolded a couple questions that I have and I would love any feedback if you've got any!

HGH
4iu - Will start at 2iu and ramp up 1iu every week until I hit 4iu.

T4 - Start at 100mcg

Test prop
Weeks 1-8
150 EOD = 525mg/week
Weeks 1-4
Tren A
150 EOD = 525mg/week

Adex 0.25 EOD

About 2-3 weeks later (once my weight gets into the 200 range)

Humalog – Workout days only
• 5IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular. Ramp up 1IU each day until 8IU.


Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
10g carbs from karbolyn per IU of slin
10g glutamine
10g creatine
5-10g bcaa’s
2g vitamin C
2.5 scoops protein (1 scoop hyrdo, 1.5 scoop whey)
1 gram HCA should be taken with or within half an hour after the insulin shot.

30-60 minutes later:
6oz chicken
1.5 cup rice

PCT

HCG 250IU x 2 a week for final 10 weeks.

Clomid 100/100/50/50 (200 on 1st day)
Nolva 40/40/20/20/20/20

[Livinlean]

Its been a while since I have done a PCT so I will go fairly aggressive.

HCG 250IU x 2 week for final 10 weeks.

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50/50 (200 on 1st day)
Nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20

Bloods will follow. I don't know when I will get them done as I plan on letting my Dr handle that side of things.

[Livinlean]

Bump

[ScotchGuard02]

Below is my proposed off season cycle. I will be starting this after I am done competing which could be in a couple weeks or in 2 months, if all goes well. Some of the stuff below is what my coach recommended and then I've gone and added extra things such as T4 which Ive read is important thanks to these forums. Now Im not trying to undermine my coach in anyway, more so just trying to learn this stuff for myself. I have bolded a couple questions that I have and I would love any feedback if you've got any!

You're 20, so I feel obligated to list these posts before I comment on your post.
The Young and Steroids
Limp Dick
Just know that there will be sides. How severe? Just depends on your genetics after PCT.

LR3
Weeks 1-5
40mcg IM
Post workout or first thing in the morning on non workout days lr3 is a waste of money

HGH
Weeks
4iu - Will start at 2iu and ramp up 0.5iu every week until I hit 4iu. At that point I will go from a single AM injection and split it into 2 injections.
2 iu upon wakening, 2 iu pre workout (usually around 2-3pm) If you're shooting pharma, good regiment. If shooting bluetops you can start at 3iu and add the 4th after a week or 10 days. Stay on for as long as you can (at least 6mon to a year). Take it everyday if you have the money.

T4 - Start at 150mcg. Do I take this upon wakening? With my HGH? An hour before carbs.
Start with 100mcg. Take it when you wake up.

Test prop
Weeks 1-4
300mg EOD = 1050mg/week
Test Cyp
Weeks 1-4
125mg EOD = 440mg/week

Test Cyp
Weeks 5-12
375mg EOD = 1300mg/week

I don't see Arimadex or HCG. Do you have it in your cycle plan?

Should I add in Humalog at 8iu post workout? If yes, should I add it in for weeks 1-5 or weeks 6-10? I was thinking weeks 5-9 that way I can keep it away from the IGF.

Need to be careful with insulin, it can kill you.


Humalog – Workout days only
• 8IU’s immediately post workout, intramuscular


Immediately after Humalog injection – do the following
• Injection + 5 minutes – drink shake with 10g glutamine / 10g creatine / 55g dextrose (7 grams per IU of Insulin )
• Injection + 15 minutes – drink shake with 80g of whey isolate protein in water
• Injection + 60 – 75 minutes – eat a protein / carb meal with 40-50g of protein, 40-50g of carbs, NO FATS (you may wish to add another whey isolate protein drink with this meal)
Avoid fats for 2-3 hours for Humalog IM, 3-4 hours for Humalog subQ, 4-5 hours for Humulin-R.
keep some glucose tablets or other simple carbs on hand (Orange Juice, Full sugar Coke, etc.) for the active window of your insulin. Hypo symptoms can and will hit hard and fast and you will have little time to react. This is the main danger of insulin use. Be ready.

Instead of having one shake 5 mins after injection and another 15 mins after injection, can I not just have one shake with all those ingredients?

Down on your lower post, you don't need 6 weeks of heavy PCT. Your body will do all it's recovery in about 4 weeks. The additional 2 weeks just adds load to your body with little benefit. You're a young guy be careful there's a good chance this heavy cycle can hurt you.

[Livinlean]

Down on your lower post, you don't need 6 weeks of heavy PCT. Your body will do all it's recovery in about 4 weeks. The additional 2 weeks just adds load to your body with little benefit. You're a young guy be careful there's a good chance this heavy cycle can hurt you.

Thank you scotch for your advice. Im actually 25, my age has stayed the same on bio since I first signed up back in 2011. I am currently on cycle and this is what I will be doing once my off season starts. I have enough HCG for 10 weeks so I will run the final 10 weeks of my AAS with HCG but I may even cut that cycle down to 10 weeks that way I can get more time off and recover for my next one. Arimidex will start at 0.5mg ED then slowly progress to 0.25 EOD. The reason for this is that I am currently on 1.25 letro and I will start with higher Adex to help avoid an estro rebound.

My current HGH is blue top and norvo, I was not able to get Pharm GH at that time. I now have a connect and should have it within 2 maybe 3 months but I am only able to get a 45IU per month so I may do 1.5IU of pharm with maybe another 3IU of blue top/norvo but I think I will decide how to configure that once I have the GH in me and just play it by feel. I am leaning towards ED GH shots as it seems to be the best protocol and I plan on running GH for about a year (my off season).

[ScotchGuard02]

You've been 25 since 2011? Share with me how that works. I've been doing all this crap for "anti aging" and you found the secret. LOL If you have HCG for only 10 weeks, you're good running it like you said. 10 week Test Cyp cycle isn't long enough. The ester is too long. 12 weeks to 14 weeks is better. I would start with .25mg/eod and see if you need more. Moving up in dosage is probably a better idea than moving down in dosage until something happens. I would take HGH ed if you have the money. Bluetops? Some are good and some are crap. You won't be able to tell until you start using it. Cross your fingers that your source is good. Unless you're going pro, HGH is an overkill IMO. I'm always nervous about you young guys messing up your natural growth hormone supply. Think about it.

[Livinlean]

You've been 25 since 2011? Share with me how that works. I've been doing all this crap for "anti aging" and you found the secret. LOL If you have HCG for only 10 weeks, you're good running it like you said. 10 week Test Cyp cycle isn't long enough. The ester is too long. 12 weeks to 14 weeks is better. I would start with .25mg/eod and see if you need more. Moving up in dosage is probably a better idea than moving down in dosage until something happens. I would take HGH ed if you have the money. Bluetops? Some are good and some are crap. You won't be able to tell until you start using it. Cross your fingers that your source is good. Unless you're going pro, HGH is an overkill IMO. I'm always nervous about you young guys messing up your natural growth hormone supply. Think about it.

Lol I meant my bio has said "Age 20" since the first time I signed up and for someone reason hasn't changed since I have aged.

I ended up changing my cycle now to Prop and Tren A at 525 each to help keep the gains of this post show rebound as clean as possible. I will readjust my Adex dosing down to .25 EOD as you have advised.

HGH ED it is. The blue tops I have are from a good source for sure as almost all the BBers in the area and a couple pros use the same stuff from the same source, but I still want pharm in the long run lol. I just got my national qualification this past weekend and will be making a run at my pro card next year... Im in for a fun off season.

[ScotchGuard02]

If you're taking Tren A (Nor19) I would highly recommend you get Prami or Caber to augment the Adex. Gyno can come from prolactin as well as progesterone.

[NACH3]

Its been a while since I have done a PCT so I will go fairly aggressive.

HCG 250IU x 2 week for final 10 weeks.

Clomid 100/100/100/50/50/50 (200 on 1st day)
Nolva 40/40/40/20/20/20

Bloods will follow. I don't know when I will get them done as I plan on letting my Dr handle that side of things.

I'd just run the Clomid 4 weeks(you could frontload your SERMs for 2 wks I you want to) 100/100/50/50 -- then run your nolva for 6wks 40/40/20/20/20/10(last 2 wks could be at 20 of 10)

Are you going to run Tren ?

[Livinlean]

If you're taking Tren A (Nor19) I would highly recommend you get Prami or Caber to augment the Adex. Gyno can come from prolactin as well as progesterone.

Scotch, this tren dosage is actually the same dose from my contest prep where I did not have the need to run prami or caber. I however do have prami on hand as I do anytime I run a cycle.

[Livinlean]

I'd just run the Clomid 4 weeks(you could frontload your SERMs for 2 wks I you want to) 100/100/50/50 -- then run your nolva for 6wks 40/40/20/20/20/10(last 2 wks could be at 20 of 10)

Are you going to run Tren?

Nach, I like your idea. I have plenty of compounds on hand and I would rather use more than not enough. I will do the 4 weeks of clomid and 6 weeks of nolva. I am running the tren for now at least as this is what was advised to me by my coach and a few pros at my last show. Im not sure if I will run it the whole length of the rebound phase but I will at least run it for 4 weeks to help keep this rebound as lean as possible. I think I will get a log going after my water gain levels off to help keep track of this off season cycle as far as dosing etc.

[Ashop]

If you're taking Tren A (Nor19) I would highly recommend you get Prami or Caber to augment the Adex. Gyno can come from prolactin as well as progesterone.

Ditto. Run some CABER @ 1/2MG TWICE PER WEEK.

[ScotchGuard02]

I got gyno with Tren a couple of times. The main thing is to control the E2 before anything happens.

[Mr.BB]

Ditto. Run some CABER @ 1/2MG TWICE PER WEEK.

0,25mg twice a week is enough to effectively reduce prolactin.

[NACH3]

0,25mg twice a week is enough to effectively reduce prolactin.

Ya beat me to it BB

As long as OP is taking his AI and making an effort to controlling E2 first and foremost - I totally agree that .25mgs is sufficient to reduce PRL... If BW says otherwise he just makes a sm tweak w/AI or DA(of both of need be)

[NACH3]

Nach, I like your idea. I have plenty of compounds on hand and I would rather use more than not enough. I will do the 4 weeks of clomid and 6 weeks of nolva. I am running the tren for now at least as this is what was advised to me by my coach and a few pros at my last show. Im not sure if I will run it the whole length of the rebound phase but I will at least run it for 4 weeks to help keep this rebound as lean as possible. I think I will get a log going after my water gain levels off to help keep track of this off season cycle as far as dosing etc.

I agree & this is my approach, also... Better safe than sorry and having to scramble to find something last minute(why we always have everything we need on cycle b4 we start)! Plus DAs are powerful and if you don't need it then you've done a good job controlling E2!

When's your show? And if you have a while off b4 starting prep take the time to grow... And imho, a longer prep(16wks) I find works better for some... What's the length of your prep LivinLean?

[Livinlean]

I agree & this is my approach, also... Better safe than sorry and having to scramble to find something last minute(why we always have everything we need on cycle b4 we start)! Plus DAs are powerful and if you don't need it then you've done a good job controlling E2!

When's your show? And if you have a while off b4 starting prep take the time to grow... And imho, a longer prep(16wks) I find works better for some... What's the length of your prep LivinLean?

I just stepped off stage this weekend and won't be stepping on stage until about roughly a year or so. My current prep was about 16 weeks and I may end up doing the same but it is way too early to tell. I will definitely be taking time to grow as that is my main reason for taking the time off instead of competing right away. Just started my GH today at 2IU.

[Mp859]

I just stepped off stage this weekend and won't be stepping on stage until about roughly a year or so. My current prep was about 16 weeks and I may end up doing the same but it is way too early to tell. I will definitely be taking time to grow as that is my main reason for taking the time off instead of competing right away. Just started my GH today at 2IU.

You have pics of what you look like?
Just curious because that's up there with the amount of shit I'm running.

What are your stats? And what class do you compete in?

[Livinlean]

You have pics of what you look like?
Just curious because that's up there with the amount of shit I'm running.

What are your stats? And what class do you compete in?

Currently in mens physique. Long term goal is classic physique or even BB but I have a ways to go for that.
I stepped on stage at just below 180 and I am just under 5'10. Regular off season weight is between 200-205 currently I'm 190.
Also I will throw in that my cycle is different than what you see above. IGF is thrown out and my test dose is at 525 prop with the addition of tren at 525 for maybe 4 more weeks but the test will stay for 6-8 weeks.
I don't have many pictures on my laptop but I attached what I could find.

[Mp859]

Currently in mens physique. Long term goal is classic physique or even BB but I have a ways to go for that. I stepped on stage at just below 180 and I am just under 5'10. Regular off season weight is between 200-205 currently I'm 190. Also I will throw in that my cycle is different than what you see above. IGF is thrown out and my test dose is at 525 prop with the addition of tren at 525 for maybe 4 more weeks but the test will stay for 6-8 weeks. I don't have many pictures on my laptop but I attached what I could find. <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164417"/> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164418"/> <img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=164416"/>

You look good but TBH but you are using a lot of shit right now. Save your receptors for when you can't grow anymore. I would put that money towards extra food. Where are your legs at? I would setup a lean bulking offseason and try to put on mass. You for sure do not need slin and gh right now.

[Livinlean]

You look good but TBH but you are using a lot of shit right now. Save your receptors for when you can't grow anymore. I would put that money towards extra food. Where are your legs at? I would setup a lean bulking offseason and try to put on mass. You for sure do not need slin and gh right now.

Thanks I appreciate that. The GH is in there so that I can take a while off the gear without losing my progress. I want to take about 6 months off completely from test to let my body recover and just can't afford the set back in terms of tissue loss. As far as the extra food, I have a sponsorship for meal prep and another for supplements so saving money on gear doesn't make any difference on what food and supplements I can put in my body.

My legs are big enough for classic or MW but I would get blown away in LH. I had to stop training legs about 2-3 weeks out to fit into my shorts so give me a week or two and ill post an accurate pic up.

Honestly I have thought about holding off on the slin and I think ill just play that one week to week. As far as saving my receptors for when I can't grow, I started gear earlier in my life than I should have and honestly because of that I think I put a limit on what my body can do. After my last show I ran 600mg of test during my rebound phase and I didn't even put any extra mass on...

I am just waiting on a lean bulk plan to be emailed to me from my coach. Until then I am just trying to reverse diet while still enjoying a few treats here and there.

When you say set up a lean bulking off season are you referring to a gear protocol or a well tuned meal plan? I really want to stay away from gear until I can recover properly after this blast and get my swimmers tested and again that is the reason for adding GH.

[Mp859]

Thanks I appreciate that. The GH is in there so that I can take a while off the gear without losing my progress. I want to take about 6 months off completely from test to let my body recover and just can't afford the set back in terms of tissue loss. As far as the extra food, I have a sponsorship for meal prep and another for supplements so saving money on gear doesn't make any difference on what food and supplements I can put in my body. My legs are big enough for classic or MW but I would get blown away in LH. I had to stop training legs about 2-3 weeks out to fit into my shorts so give me a week or two and ill post an accurate pic up. Honestly I have thought about holding off on the slin and I think ill just play that one week to week. As far as saving my receptors for when I can't grow, I started gear earlier in my life than I should have and honestly because of that I think I put a limit on what my body can do. After my last show I ran 600mg of test during my rebound phase and I didn't even put any extra mass on... I am just waiting on a lean bulk plan to be emailed to me from my coach. Until then I am just trying to reverse diet while still enjoying a few treats here and there. When you say set up a lean bulking off season are you referring to a gear protocol or a well tuned meal plan? I really want to stay away from gear until I can recover properly after this blast and get my swimmers tested and again that is the reason for adding GH.

It sounds like you are under eating for your goals. The meal prep companies always skimp your portions too.

Try to hit 4-5000 calories clean with minimal drugs, could even grow on a cruise if your food is right. Sure you won't be as hard but who gives a shit.

[Livinlean]

It sounds like you are under eating for your goals. The meal prep companies always skimp your portions too.

Try to hit 4-5000 calories clean with minimal drugs, could even grow on a cruise if your food is right. Sure you won't be as hard but who gives a shit.

Well Im currently on a clean 4200 calorie diet. My coach says he will send over my off season diet tonight so that parts taken care of. I get 3 of my meals prepped the rest I do myself but thats just breakfast, shakes and steak. I have weighed my food on multiple occasions its always 8oz meat as I specify.

Im not concerned at all about being hard. Im just concerned about losing size. I don't care to look stage ready all year. Mass gain is priority while keeping BF controlled.

I don't even care to cruise, I will be going off completely while my body can recover. 2-3 months after PCT my Doc will send me to get my swimmers checked and at that point if everything comes back well, we will go ahead and freeze a couple samples and that point I will assess whether I want to take more time off or jump back on the gear. Because of the fact that I plan to do this for life, I am willing to invest money into things like GH and Cyropreservation.

[Mp859]

Well Im currently on a clean 4200 calorie diet. My coach says he will send over my off season diet tonight so that parts taken care of. I get 3 of my meals prepped the rest I do myself but thats just breakfast, shakes and steak. I have weighed my food on multiple occasions its always 8oz meat as I specify. Im not concerned at all about being hard. Im just concerned about losing size. I don't care to look stage ready all year. Mass gain is priority while keeping BF controlled. I don't even care to cruise, I will be going off completely while my body can recover. 2-3 months after PCT my Doc will send me to get my swimmers checked and at that point if everything comes back well, we will go ahead and freeze a couple samples and that point I will assess whether I want to take more time off or jump back on the gear. Because of the fact that I plan to do this for life, I am willing to invest money into things like GH and Cyropreservation.

A little gh will do wonders when you come off and run a really good pct.

You will be surprised how hard it is to actually lose tissue as long as every thing is on point. You will be less full for sure but lean tissue won't be falling off you.

You should run a pct log I would've interested to see how it is going and can chime in when things are changing etc.

[Livinlean]

A little gh will do wonders when you come off and run a really good pct.

You will be surprised how hard it is to actually lose tissue as long as every thing is on point. You will be less full for sure but lean tissue won't be falling off you.

You should run a pct log I would've interested to see how it is going and can chime in when things are changing etc.

I was already thinking about running a log to help me keep track of everything. I will definitely do that and would love for you guys to chime in with wisdom!

[oldnsedentary]

Did you run the insulin ? How are things going, Livinlean?

[Livinlean]

Did you run the insulin? How are things going, Livinlean?

Have yet to run it. I have it on hand but I am waiting for my post show rebound to play out that way its easier for me to see what the insulin is actually doing.