First cycle ever: Sust/EQ nothing else

**Originator X** · 11-20-2008, 12:59 PM

Nothing interesting to report, still doing ED Sust. I'm a happy camper.

Chicken: Raw chicken 3.5lbs, I eat 1/2 chicken 1.75lbs but I rounded to 1lbs of meat.
1lbs=16oz=448gr (16oz*28gr/oz). I read that chicken has 21 gr per oz.

Eggs: http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/nutrient.php?id=1124
But I realize it was caculated for 100gr of egg whites.

***FireGuy*** · 11-20-2008, 02:48 PM

OK, you are still way off!! 454 Grams= 1 Lb.
Next, Chicken does not contain 21 grams of protein per ounce. More like 7 grams per ounce. I am not trying to bash on you I just dont see how you can expect to get your diet anywhere near where it should be if you dont have a basic understanding of caloric values and how to calculate them.

**Originator X** · 11-26-2008, 01:38 PM

Hello all. I wanted to wish you all a Happy Thanksgiving and keep you updated on my cycle.

I am currently on the 5th week into my cycle. I have gained 7 lbs so far, but I think is mostly from the amount of food I've been consuming. As stated before, strength has increased about 10%-15% overall. I have no issues so far. I am also taking .25ml ED of Arimidex , just in case. Finally got all my PCT stuff in check. As far as muscle development, I see some changes but not drastic. My arms (weakest part) def. increased in size, but like I said, not drastically. I no longer am keeping away from heavy lifting. After the joints issue dissapeared, I started lifting my max once again.

Also, I started shooting into my thighs, since I am taking ED Sust shots. No issues in this area.

Well fellas, I will update after Thanksgiving. Be well.

**WARMachine** · 11-26-2008, 02:28 PM

Thanks for the update...

If you arent making bigger gains by the end of the next week, you might have issues...

**wukillabee** · 11-26-2008, 09:17 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

Thanks for the update...

If you arent making bigger gains by the end of the next week, you might have issues...

Yep, id say the culprit would be the arimidex ed for no reason. Only use an ai on cycle when needed. If u want to run something similar as a precaution then look into 25-50mg of proviron ed of ur cycle, not arimidex bro. I made the mistake of running .25mg arimidex ed after my gyno sides went away just to be safe and thats when all the gains stopped completely!

***FireGuy*** · 11-26-2008, 10:28 PM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Yep, id say the culprit would be the arimidex ed for no reason. Only use an ai on cycle when needed. If u want to run something similar as a precaution then look into 25-50mg of proviron ed of ur cycle, not arimidex bro. I made the mistake of running .25mg arimidex ed after my gyno sides went away just to be safe and thats when all the gains stopped completely!

He has changed his dosage a time or two but last I checked this is his first cycle and he was running between 750-1000 mgs of test a week plus a healthy dose of EQ. It would not surprise me if he needs and AI the entire time.

**WARMachine** · 11-26-2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Yep, id say the culprit would be the arimidex ed for no reason. Only use an ai on cycle when needed. If u want to run something similar as a precaution then look into 25-50mg of proviron ed of ur cycle, not arimidex bro. I made the mistake of running .25mg arimidex ed after my gyno sides went away just to be safe and thats when all the gains stopped completely!

AI's dont work like that bro. If actual gyno appears, Adex and Nolva wont reverse them.

Nolva would be the resort, because it would block any further excess estrogen from getting to the receptors.

Adex has been known to hurt gains a bit, but honestly, ive never had that issue.

Now Nolva on cycle, thats a gain killer.

**Shurik** · 11-27-2008, 02:24 AM

Agree. Better safe than sorry, its not worth it to squeeze in few extra pounds by not running AI.

**wukillabee** · 11-29-2008, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

He has changed his dosage a time or two but last I checked this is his first cycle and he was running between 750-1000 mgs of test a week plus a healthy dose of EQ. It would not surprise me if he needs and AI the entire time.

Oh, didnt know a first timer would consider anything like that. Then again, this guy doesnt surprise me. Yeah if hes runnin a gram of test and some eq for first cycle then he needs an ai for sure on cycle!

**wukillabee** · 11-29-2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

AI's dont work like that bro. If actual gyno appears, Adex and Nolva wont reverse them.

Nolva would be the resort, because it would block any further excess estrogen from getting to the receptors.

Adex has been known to hurt gains a bit, but honestly, ive never had that issue.

Now Nolva on cycle, thats a gain killer.

Hmm, i know ur very knowledgable war but many would disagree on this one including myself. Using a serm on cycle from what ive read numerous times is a big no no and especially if ur running a 19-nor. Yes the serm will stop the receptors but what about all that build up of excess estro already in ur system thats cuasing the gyno sides? Thats why u need the ai to kill the estro in ur system. I ran 500mg test enth formy first cycle and week 6 had super sensitive nips and small pea size lumps in both nips, id say thats gyno sides. I then took .5mg of arimidex ed and after 7 days all symptoms went away and was bck to normal. BEing a newb and scared I stayed at .25mg ed for rest of cycle and thats when i noticed i stopped gaining. My strength stopped goin up, stopped gaining size, pretty much everything that was supposed to happen stopped. Especially from week 6 on wouldnt u say ur gains should really start coming? Well mine didnt and im sure it was due to the arimidex .25mg ed probably when i didnt even need it but took it anyway just to be safe, wont make that mistake again. For now on ima run proviron throughout every cycle up to pct to be safe and enhance my gains.

**WARMachine** · 11-30-2008, 01:36 AM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Hmm, i know ur very knowledgable war but many would disagree on this one including myself. (Thank you for the compliment! ) Using a serm on cycle from what ive read numerous times is a big no no and especially if ur running a 19-nor. (That is 100% correct)

Yes the serm will stop the receptors but what about all that build up of excess estro already in ur system thats cuasing the gyno sides? Thats why u need the ai to kill the estro in ur system. (I never said any different bro. Again, i agree.) I ran 500mg test enth formy first cycle and week 6 had super sensitive nips and small pea size lumps in both nips, id say thats gyno sides. I then took .5mg of arimidex ed and after 7 days all symptoms went away and was bck to normal. BEing a newb and scared I stayed at .25mg ed for rest of cycle and thats when i noticed i stopped gaining. My strength stopped goin up, stopped gaining size, pretty much everything that was supposed to happen stopped. Especially from week 6 on wouldnt u say ur gains should really start coming? (yes this is true. The Adex was most likely the culprit behind you not gaining.) Well mine didnt and im sure it was due to the arimidex .25mg ed probably when i didnt even need it but took it anyway just to be safe, wont make that mistake again. For now on ima run proviron throughout every cycle up to pct to be safe and enhance my gains.

I think you misunderstood me bro. I was simply saying that an AI will not do anything for gyno once it has already appeared.

IMO the best thing to do is to run an AI from the beginning of the cycle till PCT.

Some dont agree, citing that it could possibly cause a loss of gains, and it does. It is possible. (But on the other hand, Nolva is proven to hinder gains while taken on cycle.)

But IMO its better to sacrifice gains for a saftey of possible gyno.

Others will argue that if gyno appears then take Nolva. Which indeed would be the case to halt the gyno from worsening. However, that will not reverse gyno. True gyno. People often confuse the possible signs of gyno, will actual developed gyno. There is a difference.

In the case of gyno fully developing, Letro is the only resort (other than surgery) to reverse it.

Hopefully this clears it up for everyone.

**wukillabee** · 11-30-2008, 10:47 PM

Originally Posted by war4BTT

I think you misunderstood me bro. I was simply saying that an AI will not do anything for gyno once it has already appeared.

IMO the best thing to do is to run an AI from the beginning of the cycle till PCT.

Some dont agree, citing that it could possibly cause a loss of gains, and it does. It is possible. (But on the other hand, Nolva is proven to hinder gains while taken on cycle.)

But IMO its better to sacrifice gains for a saftey of possible gyno.

Others will argue that if gyno appears then take Nolva. Which indeed would be the case to halt the gyno from worsening. However, that will not reverse gyno. True gyno. People often confuse the possible signs of gyno, will actual developed gyno. There is a difference.

In the case of gyno fully developing, Letro is the only resort (other than surgery) to reverse it.

Hopefully this clears it up for everyone.

Agree with u 100 percent bro, i misunderstood. Compliments are well deserved ur way bro, you help many of us newbs on here and I thank you for that!

**Originator X** · 12-04-2008, 02:40 PM

Gentlemen, hope all is well upon receiving this update.

My weigh has increased by 10-12 lbs since starting this cycle. Strength is also keeps increasing lightly (on top of the initial increase of 10%). I definitely feel the gear working. I feel my heart beat all over my body. I guess my blood level is up and this makes for good pumps in the gym and maitain a harder feel of muscles during the day. I also am noticing a bit more vascularity.

My training keeps being intense and heavy. No joint problems at all. And will continue to push the envelope of my loads (safely, of course).

Thanks to all and especially to War4 for your help with this cycle. I will update soon.

PS. Yep, it's official: My stomach is much bigger than my chest judging from a side view thanks to the amount food intake =)

**WARMachine** · 12-05-2008, 03:47 AM

Nice going bro!

I feel my heart beat all over my body. I guess my blood level is up and this makes for good pumps in the gym and maitain a harder feel of muscles during the day. I also am noticing a bit more vascularity

Check your BP routinely, my heart rate goes up consideribly when im on cycle, but its always best to get a check up...

**WARMachine** · 12-05-2008, 03:48 AM

Originally Posted by wukillabee

Agree with u 100 percent bro, i misunderstood. Compliments are well deserved ur way bro, you help many of us newbs on here and I thank you for that!

Thanks bro... No worries, im here to help anyone anytime. And if i dont know, i know someone who does...

**Originator X** · 12-09-2008, 06:52 PM

Gents, it's been a good cycle so far...for me.

I was going to question, on this post, the "full range of motion" of any given exercise versus a "partial range of motion". The reason for this: my spotter aka training partner, always told me that partial motion would equal bigger muscle belly. Well, I found out that it also means "injury". While he maintained his theory (he is bigger than me, naturally) he got injured while squatting. And he blames it on the "full" range of motion I have been pressing him about. But I really think is the lack of full range of motion. I told him repeatedly, if I do partial range...I would be much stronger than him....especially ON. I started a couple of years ago with "girly" squats, but now I squat ATF (ass to the flooor) type squats. So he is out of commission for a while.

I just thought I'd share with you guys so other noobs will see what's going on...at least on my cycle.

Until next time, bros!

***FireGuy*** · 12-09-2008, 07:30 PM

Full range of motion is good but not a huge fan of locking out on the top, that is where you put a lot of pressure on the joints. Partial motion can be very effective too, if you have ever seen Ronnie Coleman train he is almost exclusively mid range in his reps.

**Originator X** · 12-09-2008, 08:33 PM

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**Originator X** · 12-09-2008, 08:34 PM

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**Originator X** · 12-09-2008, 08:37 PM

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**Originator X** · 12-09-2008, 08:38 PM

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***FireGuy*** · 12-09-2008, 08:47 PM

Wtf?

**Originator X** · 12-10-2008, 08:27 AM

Sorry to all. My bro was dicking around last night. I guess it was a birthday joke or something. What a dork of a bro I have.

**Originator X** · 12-10-2008, 09:30 AM

wow. Last night at the gym, I noticed improvements on my physique while looking in the mirror. Some bulk and definition on top of minimal fat gain. Strength is up, pumps are good and I am happy so far. However, I am concerned about retaining my gains after cycle.

Now that I mention retaining, maybe you guys can educate me. I always wanted "quality" gains. This is why I went with Sust and EQ which are not known to be huge gainers therefore, I am less likely to lose muscle mass. Assuming I do everything (diet, training, cycle, pct, rest) by the book, how likely is it to lose muscle with these compounds after PCT??

**Originator X** · 12-12-2008, 01:41 PM

Update

Took BP and is at 130/70. Doctor said it's good. Strength has increased an additional 2-3% overall. Feeling good pumps and harder/fuller muscles are indicating good cycle so far.

Issue: I feel pain in my right wrist when doing barbell curls. This is not the first time this happens. It comes and goes throughout, since the moment I started lifting. I skipped training biceps on the last workout and am hoping to heal fast.

Massaging the tender area, I found out to be the small muscle (Flexor Carpi Ulnaris) that runs parallel to the forearm bone (Ulna) and connects to the pinky. I do wear wrist wraps when executing all bicep curling exercise. Since my arms need more improvement than any other bodyparts, I am getting frustrated with this issue.

How I'm thinking to get around this issue: I don't want to stop training biceps, so I'll go with lighter weights...BUT, either I'll do drop sets or supersets or 21s. Also, I'll use EZ barbell for now eventhough I like straight barbell. I am used to use these movements once a month in order to shock the biceps. But I am not sure if it's recommended to do 2 or 3 consecutive workouts of these. I want to stay away from reducing the size or strength of my lacking biceps. I feel I need to take full advantage of this cycle.

Does anyone have any thoughts re: previous (above) post?

Have a good w/e all.

**Shurik** · 12-12-2008, 10:04 PM

Thats crappy about your wrists, bro. I get that sometimes too but i just suck it up, sooner or later it goes away for me. I dont know if this will help or not but try taking some joint supplements maybe.
Are getting the EQ hunger yet??

**Originator X** · 12-15-2008, 09:38 PM

Yep, wrist is getting better. I've been taking Animal Flex since I started juicing.

Yeah, I've been feeling hungry as hell every 1.5 hours after stuffing myself. Which is great!

**Shurik** · 12-15-2008, 11:44 PM

Oooh I'm getting excited to try EQ. Are you still sticking with your diet or your just eating whatever do to eq hunger.

**Originator X** · 12-17-2008, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by Shurik

Oooh I'm getting excited to try EQ. Are you still sticking with your diet or your just eating whatever do to eq hunger.

I am sticking with my diet. Since most of my foods are clean (I do cheat once a week), it digests faster. Hence, the eating every couple of hours to get full. Other than that, EQ is great.