1st Time Tren Train (part II)

[petemitchell30]

I was able to come across some Tren Ace, and have been doing it a 75mg EOD along with my 200mg test cyp (TRT) for a little over a week now.

1)No sides at all except for a little bacne (overcome by getting acne body wash).
2) I'm not very hungry.
3) I'm a little leaner, but I'm unsure if this is due to Tren or the fact I'm probably eating less than 2000 calories a day, very clean, and 60% of it protein.
4) Not much bigger, but strength....DAMN. I'm considerably stronger in every lift.

I'm thinking about bumping it up to 100eod, we'll see.

I've also come across some clen . I'm going on a 2 weeks on 2 weeks schedule, provided I like it. I'm willing to go as high as 120mcg but no higher. Its weird because I hear about the jitters, shakes, sweats insomnia etc....So far, I'm 2 days into it, and have yet to be able to even tell when I take it.
Day 1 - 30mcg
Day 2 - 60mcg

Playing around with the idea of adding 350/week or so of masteron if I handle the 100eod Tren well for a couple of weeks....

[ironbeck]

"MORE IS NOT BETTER" A test/tren cycle is one of the best cycles imo. Your using tren e so be patient, you will get more sides lol. Clen also takes time to build up in the system, be careful because clen and tren work oppositely on your breathing and lung capacity! I wouldn't bother with the Clen unless your a cardio freak or compete in higher lv sports and need your cardio. Be nice to your heart you only have 1 lol. Save the mast for another cycle. BE PATIENT you should get some awesome results.

[ironbeck]

Are you or have you been prone to acne? at your age/ if your diet is super clean and you bath regularly(twice daily)and at those dosages acne shouldn't be a major issue. Unless your gear isn't up to par.

[bobbypump]

Make sure you have a DA on hand for Tren .. Prolactin will build up. Do you run AI on your TRT protocol? I have tried clen while not on cycle, and it did give me shakey hands and elevated body temp.

[petemitchell30]

ironbeck I'm running ACE not E. I am not really prone to acne, once I started with the acne body wash it pretty much dried up. My diet, thus far is super clean....I'm currently eating tuna, rice, and mustard. Its easy to eat clen on tren , because I have no appetite so I have no craving for shitty food.

Bobbypump I'm taking .5 caber 2X a week, might back it off to .25 2X a week after I get my e2 and prolactin checked today. I run .25 arimidex mon, wed, and sat for my TRT protocol.

I bumped my Clen up to 90mcg today, and I literally can't feel any difference when I take it. If I bump it to 120mcg and can't feel it, I might just drop it. More experimental right now than anything.....like I said, I've leaned out a lot this week, but all I've eaten is tuna, rice, chicken, and mustard. So I'm not sure if its from the tren, clen, or diet.

[MuscleScience]

If you're having great results with where you are at then stick with it. The goal is to get the best bang for your buck and use as little drugs as possible to Still get great results.

Tren has a very steep curve when it comes to law of deminished returns. Meaning the line between just right and too much is much smaller than other AAS compounds because of how potent it is.

[hammerheart]

Subscribed...

How common is to get switched esters for Tren ? I have anecdotal evidence I got Tren A over E. Feeling good on it btw.

[petemitchell30]

Subscribed...

How common is to get switched esters for Tren? I have anecdotal evidence I got Tren A over E. Feeling good on it btw.

Happened to me. I was trying to get tren E and it turned out to be tren A (potency unknown). roidtest.com is good to check. Only like $30.

Muscle Science
My strength gains are crazy....the reason I'm upping a bit is because I'd like to see some size gains as well. Also, my ester is so short, if I start getting sides I can just reduce the dosage.

Also, I forgot to say that I'm taking Cialis to help with the blood pressure.....and because, well, its fun.

[kelkel]

Listen to MS. Keep your dose low. No need to bump it up at all, just be patient. I'll frequently run 100 mgs tren -a (total per week) along side my TRT and absolutely love it. More is not always better. You'll also be fine dropping your caber back to .25 x 2 per week. .5 is overkill in most all cases, imho.

[almostgone]

Listen to MS. Keep your dose low. No need to bump it up at all, just be patient. I'll frequently run 100 mgs tren-a (total per week) along side my TRT and absolutely love it. More is not always better. You'll also be fine dropping your caber back to .25 x 2 per week. .5 is overkill in most all cases, imho.

I did the same after reading about you doing this is another thread and am loving it. Will check my H&H in a few weeks (was going to anyway since mine likes to act up occasionally). I'm loving the low dose tren and have not missed the sides of running higher tren doses at all!

[petemitchell30]

I appreciate all of you taking the time to read and offer advice.

Kel I remember you telling me about the caber, which is why I am pulling my prolactin so soon during the cycle. The only reason I began with .5 2x a week anyway is due to the fact I'm scared to death of gyno, I have little doubt I'll be able to decrease the dosage as soon as my results come in.

Can anyone speak to the dilemna I've having with Clen ? I'm now taking 90mcg a day, and I don't feel a thing. Literally do not feel a bit of difference after taking it. My research leads me to believe that at 90mcg of clen, I should be able to notice something....a little anxious, jittery, faster heart beat, energy.....something.

Its from a company called Lisar of Thailand. I posted it in the brand section, but haven't had any comments as of yet.

[petemitchell30]

So update on the Clen .....bumped it to 120mcg today. For the first time I felt it. Hard to articulate what "it" is, but I could tell. Almost felt like a dirty vyvanse. Gave me a very mild headache, and I felt just the slight bit jittery for about an hour after I took it.

I've never tried Clen before this week, but from what I've read this sounds correct. 120mcg is the max dosage for me on this, just not willing to go any higher. Doing a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off schedule.

[kelkel]

Kel I remember you telling me about the caber, which is why I am pulling my prolactin so soon during the cycle. The only reason I began with .5 2x a week anyway is due to the fact I'm scared to death of gyno, I have little doubt I'll be able to decrease the dosage as soon as my results come in.

pete post up your level when you get your BW back please. It'll help other guys learn.

[petemitchell30]

Question, everything I read says ED is better than EOD. I cannot commit to ED long term, but does anyone have any thoughts on going ED when I can, and EOD when I know ahead of time I won't be able to pin the following day?

[kelkel]

Hell, I go EOD and skip weekends. Never had an issue.

[hammerheart]

So update on the Clen .....bumped it to 120mcg today. For the first time I felt it. Hard to articulate what "it" is, but I could tell. Almost felt like a dirty vyvanse. Gave me a very mild headache, and I felt just the slight bit jittery for about an hour after I took it.

I've never tried Clen before this week, but from what I've read this sounds correct. 120mcg is the max dosage for me on this, just not willing to go any higher. Doing a 2 weeks on 2 weeks off schedule.

Good. That will avoid downregulation and subsequent crashes.

Are you still not getting sides? Neither am I, though I'm not doing a proper blast/cycle, and I'm loving the thing. I can up and down the dosage w/o feeling different. With Test I can only dream of that, 10mg more or less puts me off balance.

[petemitchell30]

Good. That will avoid downregulation and subsequent crashes.

Are you still not getting sides? Neither am I, though I'm not doing a proper blast/cycle, and I'm loving the thing. I can up and down the dosage w/o feeling different. With Test I can only dream of that, 10mg more or less puts me off balance.

I'm doing 100 EOD, and 120MCG Clen ED right now, and have zero sides. Actually sleeping BETTER (I have always had a hard time sleeping.)

My current dilemma, is that I'm not leaning out like I'd like too. True I'm not doing a lot of cardio, but I'm 6'4" 240 and eating well under 3000 calories a day, around a 40/40/20 macro split....probably closer to a 50/30/20 split (protein, carb, fat). I haven't GAINED any weight, but I haven't lost much either. I don't look leaner...what gives?

Is it possible that tren has lowered my T3 to the point where I'm holding onto fat more than usual?

Suggestions?

[hammerheart]

It's a possibility but having T3 that low will also make you feel lethargic. I'd have rather added the T3 than clen . Myself, I'm on 50mcg T3, but that's for hypothyroidism.

Though, I don't really understand your logic to get both bigger and leaner - I'd just focus on one at a time.

My sleep too is good the night ahead pin day but gets poor again the day other.

[petemitchell30]

It's a possibility but having T3 that low will also make you feel lethargic. I'd have rather added the T3 than clen . Myself, I'm on 50mcg T3, but that's for hypothyroidism.

Though, I don't really understand your logic to get both bigger and leaner - I'd just focus on one at a time.

My sleep too is good the night ahead pin day but gets poor again the day other.

Bigger and leaner, as in I'd like my muscles to grow moderately, and my fat to shrink. I was under the impression that with AAS this was achievable. Today, for the first time, I can begin to notice I'm a little leaner. I'm not sure if I've experienced muscle growth, but I'm damn sure a lot stronger!

Am starting to see a little acne on my back at this point.....so I guess I'm not totally sides free.

[hammerheart]

Bigger and leaner, as in I'd like my muscles to grow moderately, and my fat to shrink. I was under the impression that with AAS this was achievable. Today, for the first time, I can begin to notice I'm a little leaner. I'm not sure if I've experienced muscle growth, but I'm damn sure a lot stronger!

Am starting to see a little acne on my back at this point.....so I guess I'm not totally sides free.

Well body fat is expressed as a percentage of total mass. If you attain lean muscle gains that means the %bf will automatically go down and make you leaner.

Acne is nothing.

[petemitchell30]

I'm consistently eating less than 3000calories a day on a 40/40/20 split or better. I'm not leaning out like I thought I would from this. Anyone have any idea why this could be?? Suggestions?

At 6'4" 240 I sure thought I'd lean out pretty quick on this diet +100mg eod of tren ace.

[petemitchell30]

So, Kel, I got my results back from labcor from last week. Prolactin was 2 (range 4-15). So, like you predicted....I'm going to back it off to .25 per week.

Oddly enough, my e2 was a little high, 48 (range 8-35). However, I feel great, and when I take more arimidex than that, I have a hard time getting wood...and my libido sucks. 48 isn't nearly high enough for me to have to worry about gyno is it?? I actually feel pretty good around that number.

Thoughts?

[Nephets]

Bigger and leaner, as in I'd like my muscles to grow moderately, and my fat to shrink. I was under the impression that with AAS this was achievable. Today, for the first time, I can begin to notice I'm a little leaner. I'm not sure if I've experienced muscle growth, but I'm damn sure a lot stronger!

Am starting to see a little acne on my back at this point.....so I guess I'm not totally sides free.

have you given any thought to doing one then the other and not both at the same time. pack on as much size as you want and eat accordingly, then do a mini cut at the end, and eat accordingly. May have a little better results.

[kelkel]

So, Kel, I got my results back from labcor from last week. Prolactin was 2 (range 4-15). So, like you predicted....I'm going to back it off to .25 per week.

Oddly enough, my e2 was a little high, 48 (range 8-35). However, I feel great, and when I take more arimidex than that, I have a hard time getting wood...and my libido sucks. 48 isn't nearly high enough for me to have to worry about gyno is it?? I actually feel pretty good around that number.

Thoughts?

Leave your E2 alone then. I'd always rather have it a bit high than low. Also factor in when you took your last adex dose and when the BW was pulled.

[petemitchell30]

so kel, I took 200mg test on sunday, along with .25 adex. Then took .25 adex again tuesday, and had bloods taken wed mid morning. Does that evidence to you that my e2 is generally higher or lower than 48?

Nephets I'm already about 13-15% bodyfat I'd guess....so I'm really looking to trim down as much as I can. So long as the tren can help me maintain my current level of muscle w/o losing, thats what I'm looking for. Obviously, if I could gain 5 lbs or so in the process I wouldn't complain, but I was really hoping for a recomp type cycle....which is why I'm a little discouraged that I'm not shedding fat like I had hoped.

I'm debating as to whether or not to decrease my calories, but damn....i'm pretty hungry all the time as it is eating under 3000 per day.

[kelkel]

I was curious about the timing of your injection and its peak when compared to your adex dosage and whether is was basically in full effect or not. I would surmise that your test was peaked and dex in full force at the time of BW so that's were your E2 lives when test is peaked.

[petemitchell30]

HALFWAY POINT SUMMARY

Sides
Guys, knock on wood....so far no sides. Sleeping like a baby, no aggression (i hate traffic a little more), no anxiety, and thank GOD no cough as of yet. A little acne on back and arms....but keeping it at bay with salicylic acid body wash.

Dosages
Test Cyp 200mg Every Sunday, adex as needed.
Week 1&2 = Tren 75 EOD, Caber .5 2X week
Week 2-4 = Tren 100EOD, Caber .5 2X week.
Weeks 4-8 will be taking = Tren 125EOD, Caber .25X week.

Gains
Fat Loss - haven't noticed in mirror, but started at 240 and now (halfway, 4 weeks in) am 234 and stronger. So must have lost some fat right?
Size - I feel like I have gained a little mass, but minimal.
Vascularity - I don't know if its the Tren, the Cialis, or the combination, but I look like I have spider spinning webs on me when I lift.

Question for Guys Who've Done Tren
How much of these strength and mass gains can I expect to keep when I drop tren and am just back on good ole TRT dose of 200cyp every sunday?
When I come off Tren, will my metabolism go back to normal (pre tren) or will it be super slow for a while?

[Mr.BB]

Normal to lose a bit of strength, but if you keep your carbs up you might be able to use same weights but do less reps.

Metabolism will go back to normal , you might even feel good after it.

[petemitchell30]

So I have about 2 weeks left...I'm starting to see some fat loss. Nothing insane, but my midsection is getting tighter. If I'm being honest, I think its more from sticking to my diet than the tren . I'm pretty happy with my results. If I had to quantify them I'd estimate I've gained 5 lbs of muscle and lost 5 lbs of fat because I weigh the same, but am significantly stronger and just look a little better put together.

I still think that tren is the most overhyped drug I've ever heard of with regards to sides and gains both. Maybe because I'm running such a moderate dose with nothing but TRT alongside, but my sides are non-existent and my gains have been slow and steady....which is pretty much what I wanted.

I actually went into my doc last week for a TRT visit to re-up my prescriptions, and told him I was midway through a tren cycle. He told me that it was actually perfect timing, because the bloods from my visit came back it would let me know definitively how the tren was effecting me, and therefore help me make an informed decision as to whether or not it was safe for me to use in the future. From what I know, I really like it (obviously subject to change if its fucking me up internally). The slow and steady gains are what I'm looking for. Providing my bloods look good, this might be the only cycle I run from now on.

When I'm done I'll post a before and after pic so that guys who are looking to run this same cycle can have an idea of what to expect. Thanks for following along fellas, and thanks to the vets who've offered advice.

[kelkel]

Pete, "adex as needed?"

[NACH3]

I'm consistently eating less than 3000calories a day on a 40/40/20 split or better. I'm not leaning out like I thought I would from this. Anyone have any idea why this could be?? Suggestions?

At 6'4" 240 I sure thought I'd lean out pretty quick on this diet +100mg eod of tren ace.

Ever try carb cycling? Intermittent fasting? The problem must ly in your training & diet still... unless your tren is bunk but I don't see that... cal deficits may eat at more of your muscle tissue(not what we want)... and I'd have also opted for T3 on cycle instead of Clen ...
best of luck and keep it going & updating us too, brother!

[hammerheart]

[QUOTE=petemitchell30;7234459I still think that tren is the most overhyped drug I've ever heard of with regards to sides and gains both. Maybe because I'm running such a moderate dose with nothing but TRT alongside, but my sides are non-existent and my gains have been slow and steady....which is pretty much what I wanted. [/QUOTE]

This is the first time you used Tren, so you can't be sure about purity and strength of product. Just sayin'

[petemitchell30]

Kel - yes....usually test cyp on sun, and .25 adex mon/wed/sat...i have a pretty good feel for it it gets a little low or a little high, and I just adjust accordingly if I need to.

Nach3 - so the diet I listed, to be honest I did haphazardly. I stuck to it really closely during the week, and relied on the mystical powers of tren I'd read about to compensate for me losing all forms of discipline on the weekends. When this didn't work, I started being more consistent with my diet (although not perfect) and I saw better results. My point is, I think the problem was not in my plan itself, but rather in the application of said plan. Essentially, like so many other things in life, I got out of it what I put into it.

Bizarro -
Fair Point. I did test it with roidtest and it checked out....however, as you know that test doesn't measure potency. I felt enough of effects I had read about that I do feel it was correctly dosed. You have to remember, most people run tren with at least 500mg weekly of test prop + var or mast or winny. I ran it alongside my TRT plan...so I didn't experience any of the gains from high test or var/mast/winny. I'll be able to tell more when I have something to compare it to....for my next two cycles I plan on running the same thing (TRT + 125 or 150 EOD tren) but have ordered Geneza and Dragon Pharma (vets if i can't say this let me know and I'll edit). We shall see Sir!

[hammerheart]

Fair Point. I did test it with roidtest and it checked out....however, as you know that test doesn't measure potency. I felt enough of effects I had read about that I do feel it was correctly dosed. You have to remember, most people run tren with at least 500mg weekly of test prop + var or mast or winny. I ran it alongside my TRT plan...so I didn't experience any of the gains from high test or var/mast/winny. I'll be able to tell more when I have something to compare it to....for my next two cycles I plan on running the same thing (TRT + 125 or 150 EOD tren) but have ordered Geneza and Dragon Pharma (vets if i can't say this let me know and I'll edit). We shall see Sir!

Yes, we will. Myself I'm going to stick with my original plan and continue with Tren E. I wonder how do the dosage between A and E compare...

[petemitchell30]

Yes, we will. Myself I'm going to stick with my original plan and continue with Tren E. I wonder how do the dosage between A and E compare...

Man I don't know, but even though I responded really well to this cycle I'd be hesitant to use Tren E until I've done a few more Ace. I know its cheaper, but in reading about how horrible the sides can get, that 2-3 day half life of Ace starts looking real good to a newbie like me.

[hammerheart]

Man I don't know, but even though I responded really well to this cycle I'd be hesitant to use Tren E until I've done a few more Ace. I know its cheaper, but in reading about how horrible the sides can get, that 2-3 day half life of Ace starts looking real good to a newbie like me.

Whether it's cheaper depends on brand.... btw at moderate doses I think it's less harsher than acetate, of course if sides develop their going to last longer.

Today, I've noticed slight puffyness and leakage in the right nipple, after a couple of 50mg pins. I wonder if caber is getting ineffective at this dose. I'm taking .25 e3d. I have suspended the Tren atm as I'm pulling bloods, including PRL, this week. I will be happy to share results...

[petemitchell30]

How much Tren E are you taking? At roughly 450mg/week of ace .25 caber 2X a week had my progesterone at the veeeeery bottom end of normal. Are you sure your caber is good?

[hammerheart]

How much Tren E are you taking? At roughly 450mg/week of ace .25 caber 2X a week had my progesterone at the veeeeery bottom end of normal. Are you sure your caber is good?

Yes, the caber is indeed good, I'm acquainted with DA agonist so I know the feel/sides I get from them.

This week I went from 100mg Tren A weekly to 150. I'm not sure what you meant by having prog bottomed out, it's not that tren raises it, it mimics it.

[hammerheart]

And oh, the night sweats thing coupled with weird dreams has started.

[petemitchell30]

100-150 TrenA WEEKLY?? Do you see results from that? I couldn't feel any difference from my caber....but bloods showed that prog went from 16 to 2 after 3 weeks of .5 2X a week so I knew it was working.