New pics - starting a 4 month routine

**gbrice75** · 07-31-2010, 07:57 PM

Hey all,

Been a while since I've posted any pics. Unfortunately I have no earlier pics as my hard drive recently crashed; my avy is all I have left!

I welcome all comments and critiques, and let me know what you think needs the most work - shoulders are kind of obvious. Also, I realize bodyfat is high particularly around the midsection - i'll be focusing on dropping to 10% or better on this routine i'm starting. Would also appreciate a BF estimate.

More pics to come tomorrow.

Current Stats:

34 years old
5'11
203lbs
BF - you tell me!

**gbrice75** · 07-31-2010, 07:59 PM

A couple more.

I'll have a few more tomorrow, wife is getting pissed now lol.

**HawaiianPride.** · 07-31-2010, 08:03 PM

Focus on rear delts, lower back, lat width, chest seperation. Arms look great. How about them wheels? What's your new routine going to consist of?

**gbrice75** · 07-31-2010, 09:38 PM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

Focus on rear delts, lower back, lat width, chest seperation. Arms look great. How about them wheels? What's your new routine going to consist of?

Thanks Pride, delts and lats are serious laggers for me. I've recently added deads back into my routine, so i'm not too worried about lower back - plus, I have alot of fat there so you obviously can't see anything anyway.

When you say chest separation, are you referring to closing the gap between the pecs, or upper/lower separation - i.e. separation between lower pecs and rib cage? Hopefully the latter since the former is more genetic with me as far as I can tell. Adding more size is the only way i'll know for sure.

Anyway, keep the comments coming, and please give me a BF estimate. A few more pics here as well.

**********EDIT********* - stupid cropping software didn't work, and I didn't check the pics before uploading - so now you know what my ugly mug looks like. Oh well!

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-01-2010, 08:54 AM

Separation between the lower pec area is what I meant. Those last 2 photos are much better. Again, arms are looking great, traps are bulging out, the major problem areas I would work on to complete your proportion would be the rear and side fibers of your Delt. Focus less on pressing movements on your shoulder day. Have you ever looked into Layne Norton's "Dynamic Delt" routine?

**gbrice75** · 08-01-2010, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

Separation between the lower pec area is what I meant. Those last 2 photos are much better. Again, arms are looking great, traps are bulging out, the major problem areas I would work on to complete your proportion would be the rear and side fibers of your Delt. Focus less on pressing movements on your shoulder day. Have you ever looked into Layne Norton's "Dynamic Delt" routine?

Thanks for the clarification on the chest separation.

I haven't seen that routine, but i'm going to google it now!

To answer your original question about wheels - I didn't take any pics, but can if it'll help. My legs are pure crap, not in proportion with my upper body. It's a shame, because i'm not one of those people who neglect legs, I actually work them pretty hard. It's not great, but I do squat 315 for close to 8 reps. They're just not responding very well. Also, they have alot of fat which doesn't help the appearance.

I am starting a new routine which I believe will help IMMENSELY with my legs as it incorporates front squats, hack squats, single leg squats, etc. - none of which I was doing prior.

Where would you put me at in terms of bodyfat? I'm thinking 17% - ish?

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-01-2010, 09:13 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Thanks for the clarification on the chest separation.

I haven't seen that routine, but i'm going to google it now!

To answer your original question about wheels - I didn't take any pics, but can if it'll help. My legs are pure crap, not in proportion with my upper body. It's a shame, because i'm not one of those people who neglect legs, I actually work them pretty hard. It's not great, but I do squat 315 for close to 8 reps. They're just not responding very well. Also, they have alot of fat which doesn't help the appearance.

I am starting a new routine which I believe will help IMMENSELY with my legs as it incorporates front squats, hack squats, single leg squats, etc. - none of which I was doing prior.

Where would you put me at in terms of bodyfat? I'm thinking 17% - ish?

I believe these are why were legs weren't responding. Front Squats brought my Quads up significantly. Hacks were great for overall development. Can't neglect Back Squats/SLDL's of course. Conventional DL's also brought my legs/glutes up.

BF looks between 15%-16%ish.

Here's a sample for those viewing this thread on L.N.'s article..

"There are many bodybuilders who have great physiques. They are so huge many people say, "they don't need to get any bigger." But the Deltoids are one body part that EVERYONE will look better with more muscle in that area. I don't care what anyone says, the first thing that tells people that "hey I am a bodybuilder" is the wide shoulder structure. It cannot be ignored. Having big shoulders makes you wider, makes your waist look smaller, makes your lats look bigger and makes your upper body as a whole look better.

Unfortunately, deltoids are a muscle group that can be quite stubborn. I genetically blessed few have wide shoulders with naturally round deltoids, but for the majority of us, we have to bust our asses to get bigger shoulders. The goal of this article will be to shed some light on how to properly train the deltoids. When I first got serious about bodybuilding I already had a good base. I had a big chest and big arms. But my body looked much like a ruler. I had no delts, they did not stand out at all from my arms. I knew that if I wanted to have any hope of making it in this sport that I would have to drastically widen my shoulders. I tried many different routines and half assed my way around the gym trying to find a routine that worked, in the end it took me doing quite a bit of research and experimentation to find a routine that worked.

Now it's time to get down to the nitty gritty science behind the shoulders. The deltoid complex is rather unique, it can move in almost any direction in almost any plane of movement. This provides many different exercises that can be used to stimulate the muscle fiber. The deltoid is composed of three different heads: the anterior (front) delt, the posterior (rear) delt, and the medial (middle) delt. So we can then deduce that to stimulate muscle fiber that we must provide exercises for each head of the deltoid complex to maximize muscle growth. I am a firm believer that each delt head should be isolated with a certain exercise in order to maximize growth. However, a good compound movement is also key for building overall size and strength in the muscle.

As far as compound shoulder movements go I believe that dumbbells are far superior to barbells. When you are using a barbell both your hands are locked into one position. They cannot be moved one way or another. Not only does this place more stress on your joints but in my opinion, takes away muscle fiber stimulation because your range of motion is hindered. But don't take my word for it. Try doing a workout with barbell shoulder presses and a workout with dumbbell shoulder presses. I guarantee that you will feel a difference in fiber stimulation. For this reason, I use predominately dumbbells in my shoulder workouts. I am a firm believer in full range of motion and being able to feel the muscle working during the exercise I'm doing. I will list my two different shoulder routines and then explain why I have chosen the exercises I that are listed.

Workout #1
*note- warm-up sets are done for ALL exercises
2 failure sets of seated dumbbell presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of Arnold presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of bent over dumbbell lateral raises (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets braced side lateral raises (6-12 reps)

Workout #2 (pre-exhaustion)
2 failure sets of cable side lateral raises (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of seated dumbbell presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of upright rows (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of bent over cable lateral raises (6-12 reps)

*I alternate these workouts every 4 weeks. Before I explain these workouts and their exercises I would first like to say that all exercises should be done with a FULL RANGE OF MOTION! I believe the amount of muscle fiber you can stimulate is directly proportional to how far you can stretch and how well you can contract a muscle. (Why do you think calves and forearms are problem body parts for so many people...because they have limited ranges of motion) For example, when doing seated dumbbell presses you SHOULD lower the dumbbells until they touch the top of your shoulders and then press them overhead until the dumbbells touch each other. When doing any kind of lateral raise you should raise the dumbbell to the height of the top of your head and slowly lower them to your side.

Repetition Cadence

Now I will discuss another issue of importance... repetition cadence. Each repetition should be done in controlled fashion. The most I ever use on lateral raises is 30-lb dumbbells. But I see people that weigh 50 pounds less than me using 45-lb dumbbells for the same exercise. How do they do that? I'll tell you how... they swing the weight. If I used momentum and swung the weight I guarantee you that I could do lateral raises with 55-65 lbs. So why don't I do it? Well simple, I want to get big and I'm not going to let my ego get in the way of that. If you are using momentum and swinging the weight you aren't stimulating jack. And if you don't stimulate muscle fiber guess what... you don't grow. When I do lateral raises I slowly lower the weight (usually I resist as hard as I can) this usually takes me 6 full seconds to lower the weight. To raise the weight, I use my shoulders, not momentum to quickly lift the weight through the positive part of the rep, but I do this in a controlled fashion. All exercises should be done in this slow controlled fashion. I will make a generalization and say that in most of my exercises the positive portion of the repetition takes me about 2 seconds whereas the negative portion takes me 6-8 seconds. True, I use less weight than many people in the gym, but guess what? I'm also bigger than most of those guys as well. So take heart about using lighter weights.

It is very easy to cheat when doing shoulders and use other parts of the body to assist the shoulders in lifting the weights. This must be avoided if you are serious about muscle growth. For example, many people cheat when doing side lateral raises by moving the entire upper body to move the weight (this is actually quite comical to watch). This must be avoided. This is why I do braced side lateral raises. These are very useful as they virtually eliminate all cheating. Here is how they are done.

First, grab a bar or a seat or anything to stabilize yourself with you arm that you will not be using to lift the weight. Now, lean away from whatever you are holding onto. Now simply do a raise with the arm that has the dumbbell in it. Notice that you will not be able to use the rest of your body to help you lift the weight. Notice in workout #2 that cable raises are done before dumbbell presses. I'm sure some of you are wondering why in the hell I would put an isolation exercise before a compound exercise. Well I'll tell you why...to stimulate muscle fiber better. Have you ever been doing shoulder presses and felt like you could do another rep but you failed to get it because your triceps gave out and you couldn't lock out the weight? This happens quite frequently and is normal. The triceps are a smaller and weaker body part than the shoulders so when doing a press they will frequently fatigue before the shoulders.

So you are undoubtedly missing out on some fiber stimulation if you feel your shoulders can still do more. So how do we remedy this? We pre-exhaust the shoulders with an isolation exercise. If a couple of failure sets are done with an isolation exercise then the shoulders will already be fatigued and stimulated from the isolation exercise before the compound movement is even done. So when shoulder press is done, your shoulders will fail before your triceps do since you have already pre-fatigued them with an isolation exercise. Thus your shoulders have failed, rather than your triceps, this means you have better stimulated your shoulder muscle fiber.

So lets review on how to work shoulders...

DO...
Use heavy weights (that can be controlled) Go through a full range of motion Use isolation exercises in conjunction with compound movements Work at a slow and controlled cadence

DO NOT...
Cheat when lifting the weight Lift the weight quickly and in an uncontrolled manner Use more weight than you can do in a controlled manner Use more weight just to be a show off Use any other part of your body to lift the weight."

Many people have attested to this being a super beneficial growth routine for lacking shoulders. Let me know what you think..

**gbrice75** · 08-01-2010, 09:19 AM

LoL thanks bro, I just googled and read through this exact article. I do hit those same exercises, but not necessarily in that order which could be part of the problem. Also, I think i've been overtraining shoulders as I never really 'feel' like i've worked them enough - mental $hit.

With this new routine i'm starting, it incorporates something more similar to total body workouts with high frequency training. It's a book called Huge In A Hurry written by Chad Waterbury. He's a pretty well respected member of the BB community. Give it a look if interested, there's some pretty good stuff in there and i'm psyched to be starting a routine completely different from anything i've done thus far.

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-01-2010, 09:26 AM

I'll look into it, thanks.

On the routine, I would substitute Upright Rows for something else though. This movement wreaks havoc on my joints and tendons.

**gbrice75** · 08-01-2010, 10:28 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

I'll look into it, thanks.

On the routine, I would substitute Upright Rows for something else though. This movement wreaks havoc on my joints and tendons.

I had a problem with uprights for the longest, same deal as you - a ton of joint and tendon pain, especially in my wrists. I changed up my form and started using an EZ Curl bar. I can now do significantly more weight without the pain!

**Archangel.** · 08-01-2010, 11:04 AM

Originally Posted by HawaiianPride.

I believe these are why were legs weren't responding. Front Squats brought my Quads up significantly. Hacks were great for overall development. Can't neglect Back Squats/SLDL's of course. Conventional DL's also brought my legs/glutes up.

BF looks between 15%-16%ish.

Here's a sample for those viewing this thread on L.N.'s article..

"There are many bodybuilders who have great physiques. They are so huge many people say, "they don't need to get any bigger." But the Deltoids are one body part that EVERYONE will look better with more muscle in that area. I don't care what anyone says, the first thing that tells people that "hey I am a bodybuilder" is the wide shoulder structure. It cannot be ignored. Having big shoulders makes you wider, makes your waist look smaller, makes your lats look bigger and makes your upper body as a whole look better.

Unfortunately, deltoids are a muscle group that can be quite stubborn. I genetically blessed few have wide shoulders with naturally round deltoids, but for the majority of us, we have to bust our asses to get bigger shoulders. The goal of this article will be to shed some light on how to properly train the deltoids. When I first got serious about bodybuilding I already had a good base. I had a big chest and big arms. But my body looked much like a ruler. I had no delts, they did not stand out at all from my arms. I knew that if I wanted to have any hope of making it in this sport that I would have to drastically widen my shoulders. I tried many different routines and half assed my way around the gym trying to find a routine that worked, in the end it took me doing quite a bit of research and experimentation to find a routine that worked.

Now it's time to get down to the nitty gritty science behind the shoulders. The deltoid complex is rather unique, it can move in almost any direction in almost any plane of movement. This provides many different exercises that can be used to stimulate the muscle fiber. The deltoid is composed of three different heads: the anterior (front) delt, the posterior (rear) delt, and the medial (middle) delt. So we can then deduce that to stimulate muscle fiber that we must provide exercises for each head of the deltoid complex to maximize muscle growth. I am a firm believer that each delt head should be isolated with a certain exercise in order to maximize growth. However, a good compound movement is also key for building overall size and strength in the muscle.

As far as compound shoulder movements go I believe that dumbbells are far superior to barbells. When you are using a barbell both your hands are locked into one position. They cannot be moved one way or another. Not only does this place more stress on your joints but in my opinion, takes away muscle fiber stimulation because your range of motion is hindered. But don't take my word for it. Try doing a workout with barbell shoulder presses and a workout with dumbbell shoulder presses. I guarantee that you will feel a difference in fiber stimulation. For this reason, I use predominately dumbbells in my shoulder workouts. I am a firm believer in full range of motion and being able to feel the muscle working during the exercise I'm doing. I will list my two different shoulder routines and then explain why I have chosen the exercises I that are listed.

Workout #1
*note- warm-up sets are done for ALL exercises
2 failure sets of seated dumbbell presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of Arnold presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of bent over dumbbell lateral raises (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets braced side lateral raises (6-12 reps)

Workout #2 (pre-exhaustion)
2 failure sets of cable side lateral raises (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of seated dumbbell presses (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of upright rows (6-12 reps)
2 failure sets of bent over cable lateral raises (6-12 reps)

*I alternate these workouts every 4 weeks. Before I explain these workouts and their exercises I would first like to say that all exercises should be done with a FULL RANGE OF MOTION! I believe the amount of muscle fiber you can stimulate is directly proportional to how far you can stretch and how well you can contract a muscle. (Why do you think calves and forearms are problem body parts for so many people...because they have limited ranges of motion) For example, when doing seated dumbbell presses you SHOULD lower the dumbbells until they touch the top of your shoulders and then press them overhead until the dumbbells touch each other. When doing any kind of lateral raise you should raise the dumbbell to the height of the top of your head and slowly lower them to your side.

Repetition Cadence

Now I will discuss another issue of importance... repetition cadence. Each repetition should be done in controlled fashion. The most I ever use on lateral raises is 30-lb dumbbells. But I see people that weigh 50 pounds less than me using 45-lb dumbbells for the same exercise. How do they do that? I'll tell you how... they swing the weight. If I used momentum and swung the weight I guarantee you that I could do lateral raises with 55-65 lbs. So why don't I do it? Well simple, I want to get big and I'm not going to let my ego get in the way of that. If you are using momentum and swinging the weight you aren't stimulating jack. And if you don't stimulate muscle fiber guess what... you don't grow. When I do lateral raises I slowly lower the weight (usually I resist as hard as I can) this usually takes me 6 full seconds to lower the weight. To raise the weight, I use my shoulders, not momentum to quickly lift the weight through the positive part of the rep, but I do this in a controlled fashion. All exercises should be done in this slow controlled fashion. I will make a generalization and say that in most of my exercises the positive portion of the repetition takes me about 2 seconds whereas the negative portion takes me 6-8 seconds. True, I use less weight than many people in the gym, but guess what? I'm also bigger than most of those guys as well. So take heart about using lighter weights.

It is very easy to cheat when doing shoulders and use other parts of the body to assist the shoulders in lifting the weights. This must be avoided if you are serious about muscle growth. For example, many people cheat when doing side lateral raises by moving the entire upper body to move the weight (this is actually quite comical to watch). This must be avoided. This is why I do braced side lateral raises. These are very useful as they virtually eliminate all cheating. Here is how they are done.

First, grab a bar or a seat or anything to stabilize yourself with you arm that you will not be using to lift the weight. Now, lean away from whatever you are holding onto. Now simply do a raise with the arm that has the dumbbell in it. Notice that you will not be able to use the rest of your body to help you lift the weight. Notice in workout #2 that cable raises are done before dumbbell presses. I'm sure some of you are wondering why in the hell I would put an isolation exercise before a compound exercise. Well I'll tell you why...to stimulate muscle fiber better. Have you ever been doing shoulder presses and felt like you could do another rep but you failed to get it because your triceps gave out and you couldn't lock out the weight? This happens quite frequently and is normal. The triceps are a smaller and weaker body part than the shoulders so when doing a press they will frequently fatigue before the shoulders.

So you are undoubtedly missing out on some fiber stimulation if you feel your shoulders can still do more. So how do we remedy this? We pre-exhaust the shoulders with an isolation exercise. If a couple of failure sets are done with an isolation exercise then the shoulders will already be fatigued and stimulated from the isolation exercise before the compound movement is even done. So when shoulder press is done, your shoulders will fail before your triceps do since you have already pre-fatigued them with an isolation exercise. Thus your shoulders have failed, rather than your triceps, this means you have better stimulated your shoulder muscle fiber.

So lets review on how to work shoulders...

DO...
Use heavy weights (that can be controlled) Go through a full range of motion Use isolation exercises in conjunction with compound movements Work at a slow and controlled cadence

DO NOT...
Cheat when lifting the weight Lift the weight quickly and in an uncontrolled manner Use more weight than you can do in a controlled manner Use more weight just to be a show off Use any other part of your body to lift the weight."

Many people have attested to this being a super beneficial growth routine for lacking shoulders. Let me know what you think..

I COMPLETELY agree with almost everything this guy is saying.

"Notice in workout #2 that cable raises are done before dumbbell presses. I'm sure some of you are wondering why in the hell I would put an isolation exercise before a compound exercise. Well I'll tell you why...to stimulate muscle fiber better. Have you ever been doing shoulder presses and felt like you could do another rep but you failed to get it because your triceps gave out and you couldn't lock out the weight? This happens quite frequently and is normal. The triceps are a smaller and weaker body part than the shoulders so when doing a press they will frequently fatigue before the shoulders.

So you are undoubtedly missing out on some fiber stimulation if you feel your shoulders can still do more. So how do we remedy this? We pre-exhaust the shoulders with an isolation exercise. If a couple of failure sets are done with an isolation exercise then the shoulders will already be fatigued and stimulated from the isolation exercise before the compound movement is even done. So when shoulder press is done, your shoulders will fail before your triceps do since you have already pre-fatigued them with an isolation exercise."

This is EXACTLY the reason why I have been training my delts the way I do for the past 6 months. It's totally ironic, because I never came across this guys article until now. Hell, I just finished posting my current delt routine for someone 5 mins ago, and I have my laterals etc before the final dumbell presses. The guy said my delts/traps were awesome, what do I do for them, another testament to this theory of training delts. I don't think I would do 4 exercises at 2 failure sets though, as I don't feel the delts really need more than 3 exercises in a given workout for ideal stimulation. I stick to three, and it works great. Nevertheless, I feel this article is right on track.

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-01-2010, 11:11 AM

Yep, he has a valid point in his stimulation theory in regards to using isolation before compound. I'll agree, Layne is pretty much spot on with everything he writes.

**the big 1** · 08-01-2010, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Thanks Pride, delts and lats are serious laggers for me. I've recently added deads back into my routine, so i'm not too worried about lower back - plus, I have alot of fat there so you obviously can't see anything anyway.

When you say chest separation, are you referring to closing the gap between the pecs, or upper/lower separation - i.e. separation between lower pecs and rib cage? Hopefully the latter since the former is more genetic with me as far as I can tell. Adding more size is the only way i'll know for sure.

Anyway, keep the comments coming, and please give me a BF estimate. A few more pics here as well.

**********EDIT********* - stupid cropping software didn't work, and I didn't check the pics before uploading - so now you know what my ugly mug looks like. Oh well!

looking good mate

**NMacFar** · 08-02-2010, 07:41 AM

Looking tight G!

**boyka** · 08-02-2010, 08:34 AM

My rear shoulder is lacking too. Btw, good looking arms bro...

**Archangel.** · 08-03-2010, 08:53 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Hey all,

Been a while since I've posted any pics. Unfortunately I have no earlier pics as my hard drive recently crashed; my avy is all I have left!

I welcome all comments and critiques, and let me know what you think needs the most work - shoulders are kind of obvious. Also, I realize bodyfat is high particularly around the midsection - i'll be focusing on dropping to 10% or better on this routine i'm starting. Would also appreciate a BF estimate.

More pics to come tomorrow.

Current Stats:

34 years old
5'11
203lbs
BF - you tell me!

Hey gbrice, you wanted my comments, so here they are.

You look way more muscular and defined than the pic you used to have as your avy, that's the only before pic I know of you. I think a little more arm size, back width/thickness/definition, bring up the traps, shoulder size/roundness. Having said all that, your chest is looking really good, and your abs are really coming out as well. It's obvious you've made some good progress my man. Since I just finished "cutting you up" lol, would you mind doing the same for me? I know you already commented on my progress, but could you pick me apart a bit too, thanks

**gbrice75** · 08-03-2010, 09:56 AM

Originally Posted by Archangel.

Hey gbrice, you wanted my comments, so here they are.

You look way more muscular and defined than the pic you used to have as your avy, that's the only before pic I know of you. I think a little more arm size, back width/thickness/definition, bring up the traps, shoulder size/roundness. Having said all that, your chest is looking really good, and your abs are really coming out as well. It's obvious you've made some good progress my man. Since I just finished "cutting you up" lol, would you mind doing the same for me? I know you already commented on my progress, but could you pick me apart a bit too, thanks

Thanks bro! Yea, unfortunately I lost ALL of my before pics (even the old very fat ones) because my hard drive crashed. I'm an idiot for being too lazy to backup.

I'm hoping this new program I just started will help bring up my lagging parts, I know I have a long way to go. Right now i'm still focusing on bodyfat reduction, so I don't expect much growth or changes in muscle shape this first 4 months. Once i'm happy with bodyfat (10% or less), i'll be full steam ahead on growth.

As for you, I doubt there's much I can cut down, but i'll try hard! lol

**njviking** · 08-03-2010, 11:16 AM

do you guys train shoulders 1x or 2x per week off cycle???

i recently started to do less for my shoulders-i was overtraining doing to many exercises. started to use lighter dumbells and really slow down my reps. esp. the negative. agree 110%. much smaller guys than me swinging 45-55 lb. dumbells and doing 10-12 count reps in less than 30 seconds. my 8-10 reps. of 30-40 lb DB's much slower - more disciplined with really concentrating on the negative has yielded better results for me.

gbrice - ur def. looking good. can def. see more mass and your ab's are coming on strong. def. a big difference in your shoulders. keep up the good work.

**Archangel.** · 08-03-2010, 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by njviking

do you guys train shoulders 1x or 2x per week off cycle???

i recently started to do less for my shoulders-i was overtraining doing to many exercises. started to use lighter dumbells and really slow down my reps. esp. the negative. agree 110%. much smaller guys than me swinging 45-55 lb. dumbells and doing 10-12 count reps in less than 30 seconds. my 8-10 reps. of 30-40 lb DB's much slower - more disciplined with really concentrating on the negative has yielded better results for me.

gbrice - ur def. looking good. can def. see more mass and your ab's are coming on strong. def. a big difference in your shoulders. keep up the good work.

Maybe the G man should answer this, but I'll throw in my 2 cents; once a week, pre-exhaust with isolation movements first, and you're spot on with the controlled reps

**gbrice75** · 08-03-2010, 01:46 PM

For the 1st year or so that I was training, I was doing (everything) twice a week - I think I was definitely overtraining. I was hitting chest and shoulders on the same day, twice a week!

Since then, i've switched to once a week but honestly I STILL think i'm overtraining shoulders. I just never feel like i'm doing enough for them, so I tend to do way more exercises than I should, especially considering the relatively small size of the delts.

I really think this program is going to help me out!

PS - thanks for the kind words Viking! Now going over to Arch's thread to rip him apart!

**gettingthere** · 08-03-2010, 04:39 PM

Looking real thick gbrice, very good!!! its obvious that uv done a lot of research and are on the right road!! i know your like me and have real bad days, but u should be proud of what you have achieved

**gbrice75** · 08-03-2010, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by gettingthere

Looking real thick gbrice, very good!!! its obvious that uv done a lot of research and are on the right road!! i know your like me and have real bad days, but u should be proud of what you have achieved

Thanks bro, i'm really trying! How are things coming along with you?

**gettingthere** · 08-04-2010, 12:38 PM

You can see that your trying real hard and have everything down!! things going pretty good right now, feel my size is definately going up, workouts are nice and intense and feeling out the once baggy shirts so thats good!! as i said was kinda worried about going away at the end of month but i just have to get through it

**Twist** · 08-04-2010, 06:09 PM

Once per month I train anterior and posterior delts as I feel if you are doing proper back and chest/triceps exercises that they get worked enough. deadlift and dip and you will have good delts. I only do about two sets per week for the medial delt. I find most people I work with are overtraining them as they don't take into account chest and back day and how shoulders are effected.

HP: Great article! You seem to be putting out some good stuff lately. Keep up the good work. I too agree with fatiguing prime movers with isolation exercises prior to compounds. This is why I recommend leg extensions before squats for big quads (also to warm up the joints).

**vishus** · 08-04-2010, 06:35 PM

gbrice!!! nice to see the pics up, lookin thick and maybe a little sunburnt? haha hope to see some results out of this. will be checking in a lot to see how things r goin, stay on the path and you will get there

**HawaiianPride.** · 08-04-2010, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

Once per month I train anterior and posterior delts as I feel if you are doing proper back and chest/triceps exercises that they get worked enough. deadlift and dip and you will have good delts. I only do about two sets per week for the medial delt. I find most people I work with are overtraining them as they don't take into account chest and back day and how shoulders are effected.

HP: Great article! You seem to be putting out some good stuff lately. Keep up the good work. I too agree with fatiguing prime movers with isolation exercises prior to compounds. This is why I recommend leg extensions before squats for big quads (also to warm up the joints).

Exactly. Thanks for taking the time out of your hands to read what Layne had to say.

**Exilus** · 08-04-2010, 10:52 PM

How big are those arms? at least 18 inches for sure?

**gbrice75** · 08-05-2010, 05:25 AM

Originally Posted by vishus

gbrice!!! nice to see the pics up, lookin thick and maybe a little sunburnt? haha hope to see some results out of this. will be checking in a lot to see how things r goin, stay on the path and you will get there

Thanks bro, yea mad sunburn, lol - a week in Mexico will do that. I should re-take the pics now that i'm brown instead of red. Focusing on dropping the bodyfat now, desperately want to get to 10% before trying to add more size.

**gbrice75** · 08-05-2010, 05:27 AM

Originally Posted by Exilus

How big are those arms? at least 18 inches for sure?

Mine? LoL honestly I don't know, never paid attention to numbers other than waist size (the mindset of a fat man) but if 18" is considered decent, they're probably not there!

People keep commenting on my arms and I appreciate it, but just don't see it. They don't look like anything special to me, barely a bicep peak, etc. Just wondering what you're all seeing that i'm not?