What do you guys think of this article about the war?

[Kärnfysikern]

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Mili...ctory_999.html

[Teabagger]

Partially right, mostly wrong. Israel did "lose" the war with Hez diplomaticlly, politically, and image wise. They did not achieve their ground objectives, true, but this was not due to inability or lack of military capability, but to the political calls made by the Israeli Cabinet. Hez is now a big hero....to the terrorists.

The cease fire will not last, but this time will be different. Israel will blitz into Lebanon in an all out unrestricted campaign to destroy everthing in its path...period. Lebanon will cease to exist as any viable entity. Israel will not need to occupy anything...they will just destroy, completely, the country. There will be civilian causalities, many, but Hez will have brought this conflict to a point that for Israel it will be all or nothing...and if necessary I would not be surprised to see Israel use tactical nukes to make a large part of Lebanon uninhabitable as a kind of radioactive border if you will. This may seem far fetched to many...but the festering boil that is the Mid East is ready to burst.

And for those who say the fight in the Mid East in not Europe or Americas fight are only deluding themselves. We all have a dog in this fight because to have the entire Mid East in the hands of IslamoFacsists would spell doom for Western civilization as we currently know it.

[zOaib]

Israel only has a long-term future if it can reach a mutually acceptable accommodation with its neighbors. So long as those neighbors are states, a policy of pursuing such an accommodation may have some chance of success. But as the rise of Fourth Generation elements such as Hezbollah and Hamas weaken and in time replace those states, the possibility will disappear. Unfortunately, Israeli politics appear to be moving away from such a course rather than toward it.

For America, the question is whether Washington will continue to demand that we go down with the Israeli ship.

the above i quote form the end of the article , his insight is very interesting , and it gives rise to questions , where one would ask , do they want peace or do they want war , because peace is only possible through fairness and showing care towards what should be really done , unfortunately the crystal ball i have , shows me that the peace option will be definatley overlooked .

[Kärnfysikern]

Partially right, mostly wrong. Israel did "lose" the war with Hez diplomaticlly, politically, and image wise. They did not achieve their ground objectives, true, but this was not due to inability or lack of military capability, but to the political calls made by the Israeli Cabinet. Hez is now a big hero....to the terrorists.

The cease fire will not last, but this time will be different. Israel will blitz into Lebanon in an all out unrestricted campaign to destroy everthing in its path...period. Lebanon will cease to exist as any viable entity. Israel will not need to occupy anything...they will just destroy, completely, the country. There will be civilian causalities, many, but Hez will have brought this conflict to a point that for Israel it will be all or nothing...and if necessary I would not be surprised to see Israel use tactical nukes to make a large part of Lebanon uninhabitable as a kind of radioactive border if you will. This may seem far fetched to many...but the festering boil that is the Mid East is ready to burst.

And for those who say the fight in the Mid East in not Europe or Americas fight are only deluding themselves. We all have a dog in this fight because to have the entire Mid East in the hands of IslamoFacsists would spell doom for Western civilization as we currently know it.

If Israel ever used tactical nukes they would be dead aswell because no country would support them from that point. Heck I would be suprised if even Bush could continue to support them after such a thing.

If they did destroy Lebanon wouldnt that just turn lebanon into a new breeding ground for fanatics. Another generation of people that now acctualy have a valid reason to hate Israel.

[Teabagger]

Saying Bush made a mistake by referring to the wacko terrorists as Islamic Facsists is BS. He was not referring to every muslim. If a muslim is offended by that comment...then they must agree with the facists and who gives a sh*t if they are offended or not...they already hate us. I like straight talk...and if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then guess what...I bet its a duck.

[Kärnfysikern]

Saying Bush made a mistake by referring to the wacko terrorists as Islamic Facsists is BS. He was not referring to every muslim. If a muslim is offended by that comment...then they must agree with the facists and who gives a sh*t if they are offended or not...they already hate us. I like straight talk...and if it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck...then guess what...I bet its a duck.

got to agree with that.

[singern]

First off let me say that this article is so offbeat its crazy, it sounds like a speech by Nasrala.

Hezbola was and still is a powerful terrorist army, with an arsenal larger then anyone projected, that much can not be denied. but what victory? every indication I have seen said the victory is based on the single fact Nasrala is still alive. Its like saying the US lost in Afghanistan just because Bin Laden is still alive. The IDF hasnt been defeated, they just failed to complete there mission to take out the terrorist army Hezbola.

Lebanon has been devastated, hezbola has lost virtually all infrastructure, communications, transportation, not to mention the huge price they will pay the Lebanese people when the dust settles and its time to settle the tab. Without the knowledge or permission of the Lebanese government, they attacked a sovereign nation, and brought down the hammer of the Israel military, and taken Lebanon back 30 years.
so I have to ask, What Victory? What drugs are those people taking?

[Phreak101]

First off let me say that this article is so offbeat its crazy, it sounds like a speech by Nasrala.

Hezbola was and still is a powerful terrorist army, with an arsenal larger then anyone projected, that much can not be denied. but what victory? every indication I have seen said the victory is based on the single fact Nasrala is still alive. Its like saying the US lost in Afghanistan just because Bin Laden is still alive. The IDF hasnt been defeated, they just failed to complete there mission to take out the terrorist army Hezbola.

Lebanon has been devastated, hezbola has lost virtually all infrastructure, communications, transportation, not to mention the huge price they will pay the Lebanese people when the dust settles and its time to settle the tab. Without the knowledge or permission of the Lebanese government, they attacked a sovereign nation, and brought down the hammer of the Israel military, and taken Lebanon back 30 years.
so I have to ask, What Victory? What drugs are those people taking?

Agreed. I don't understand why any of these articles are not mentioning how Israel was leashed by pressure from its Western allies. Rockets or no rockets, if Israel had been allowed to press on w/o interruption from neighboring nations, I'd imagine Lebanon and Hez would be in ruins...

[Teabagger]

If Israel ever used tactical nukes they would be dead aswell because no country would support them from that point. Heck I would be suprised if even Bush could continue to support them after such a thing.

If they did destroy Lebanon wouldnt that just turn lebanon into a new breeding ground for fanatics. Another generation of people that now acctualy have a valid reason to hate Israel.

When all efforts at resolving a conflict which threatens a nations very existence fail, both on the politico/diplomatic front as well as conventional military campaign the only recourse is complete capitulation, or.....something more devastating. Israel would survive the use of tac nukes...there would be harsh condemnation from the world and the US, but secretly, Western Europe and America, would not have huge heartburn. They are just as sick of the Islamic radical bunch as Israel, and becoming, albeit too slowly, aware of the dangers of "tolerance" of the radicals in our midst.

The only reason these people have to hate Israel is that it exists, and is not Muslim...makes no difference if its "valid" or not...the hate is still there, and will continue to be.

[Kärnfysikern]

Nukes are not just another weapon in the arsenal and should never be treated as such. Any goverment using nukes without there beeing a imidiet thread to the existance of the nation(hezbollah sure as hell wont make Israel cease to exist within the close future) is a reckless and iresponsible goverment comiting a atrocity. I would support any sanction against Israel imaginable if they ever used a nuclear weapon. If Israels economy dies the country dies.

Even if that didnt happen what good would it do in the long run? No one could deny Iran getting nukes if they have a iresponsible nuke happy neightboor, other arab countries would get nukes asap aswell. Sooner or later Israel would go down.

Even if a majority of arabs have been brainwashed into hating israel there is still only a small part of them acctualy doing something, I bet the overwhelming majority of them just want to go about there lifes just like any person anywhere in the world.
If you go in and kill there mothers, daughters and sisters I bet the terrorist organisations would get more new people than they can handle.

Nukes should not exist in the first place and they sure as hell should never be anything but a nice deterant. A weapon so ridicilously powerfull that it is worthless.

[collar]

-- A rise of Syrian and Iranian influence generally, matched by a fall of American influence. If Israel and America were clever, Syria's comeback could offer a diplomatic opportunity of a deal in which Syria changed sides in return for a peace treaty with Israel that included the return of all lands. The crystal ball says that opportunity will be spurned.

Give me a break..

[Teabagger]

-- A rise of Syrian and Iranian influence generally, matched by a fall of American influence. If Israel and America were clever, Syria's comeback could offer a diplomatic opportunity of a deal in which Syria changed sides in return for a peace treaty with Israel that included the return of all lands. The crystal ball says that opportunity will be spurned.

Give me a break..

Newt Gingrich made the same point tonite on Fox. I think it is a good point as well...and well worth each side seriously considering....

[IronFreakX]

ROFL I thought this what do u guys think and then when u open its when u jackoff lol

I woudaa said because of hot asses LOL

[Teabagger]

regarding Israel using tac nukes I was not saying it was right, I was trying to say that as the neighbors around her become more radicalized by the Islamofascist her very existence will be threatened. At that point...who knows. I am pissed at our government as well as Europe for not collectively putting pressure on Israel as well as Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon to create peace...or risk having that governemnt removed from power by the international community.

Require Israel to return to its 1948 borders. Allow free travel between all the countries...like a Free Trade Agreement we have in the US with Canada and Mexico. Offer incentives for all involved in the form of economic, technology, and debt forgiveness. Provide aid packages to rebuild and expand infrastructure, create an economic base which can employ those wanting to simply work and provide for their family in peace and security. The countries can maintain whatever type of ruling government they have or choose without interferance from the West. Sounds good huh?? Doesn't sound like teabagger does it Well here is the kicker, the caveat so to speak. With the concessions, compromises, and aid comes responsibility.

Each soverign country will be held responsible and accountable for the actions of its citizens. In other words the Arab countries would have to roll up the terror organizations in their countries. The organizations that would not accept the existance of Israel and continue to foment attacks on Israel. The militias, resistence fronts...whatever they want to be called would be disarmed at the least and offered inclusion in the political process in their country. But the agenda of wiping out Israel would have to history. Encourage and assist in an aggressive student/cultural exchange program, shut down the radical madrasas that only teach hate. This post has gotten too long, but I do believe this could/would work. The US and Europe would have to cooperate as well and for once agree that for the common good there can be no "top dogs" or that there be only one agenda....peace in the Middle East. I think that would be harder to do than implementing the actual process.

I know my posts are mostly harsh and belligerant toward the Palastineans, Arabs and Iranians but it is only in response to the Nazispeak by some, or the blatantly false representations of Israel and/or the US as the sole "bad guy" and them as innocent victims. I haven't and don't talk much about my personal experiences. I have had enough war to last several lifetimes. I do know, up close and personal the pain and suffering of war, I have seen all too often the "collateral damage" and unintended consequences of battle, so I do not celebrate war, or "hate" any ethnic or religioius group. At any rate, thats me, for all of you I have offended in the past, and will probably offend in the future, I just wish our fighting were always only with words.
Peace.

[Kärnfysikern]

regarding Israel using tac nukes I was not saying it was right, I was trying to say that as the neighbors around her become more radicalized by the Islamofascist her very existence will be threatened. At that point...who knows. I am pissed at our government as well as Europe for not collectively putting pressure on Israel as well as Syria, Iran, Saudi Arabia and Lebanon to create peace...or risk having that governemnt removed from power by the international community.

Require Israel to return to its 1948 borders. Allow free travel between all the countries...like a Free Trade Agreement we have in the US with Canada and Mexico. Offer incentives for all involved in the form of economic, technology, and debt forgiveness. Provide aid packages to rebuild and expand infrastructure, create an economic base which can employ those wanting to simply work and provide for their family in peace and security. The countries can maintain whatever type of ruling government they have or choose without interferance from the West. Sounds good huh?? Doesn't sound like teabagger does it Well here is the kicker, the caveat so to speak. With the concessions, compromises, and aid comes responsibility.

Each soverign country will be held responsible and accountable for the actions of its citizens. In other words the Arab countries would have to roll up the terror organizations in their countries. The organizations that would not accept the existance of Israel and continue to foment attacks on Israel. The militias, resistence fronts...whatever they want to be called would be disarmed at the least and offered inclusion in the political process in their country. But the agenda of wiping out Israel would have to history. Encourage and assist in an aggressive student/cultural exchange program, shut down the radical madrasas that only teach hate. This post has gotten too long, but I do believe this could/would work. The US and Europe would have to cooperate as well and for once agree that for the common good there can be no "top dogs" or that there be only one agenda....peace in the Middle East. I think that would be harder to do than implementing the actual process.

I know my posts are mostly harsh and belligerant toward the Palastineans, Arabs and Iranians but it is only in response to the Nazispeak by some, or the blatantly false representations of Israel and/or the US as the sole "bad guy" and them as innocent victims. I haven't and don't talk much about my personal experiences. I have had enough war to last several lifetimes. I do know, up close and personal the pain and suffering of war, I have seen all too often the "collateral damage" and unintended consequences of battle, so I do not celebrate war, or "hate" any ethnic or religioius group. At any rate, thats me, for all of you I have offended in the past, and will probably offend in the future, I just wish our fighting were always only with words.
Peace.

Great post my man and a post I agree with 100%.

[k0nsl]

Partially right, mostly wrong. Israel did "lose" the war with Hez diplomaticlly, politically, and image wise. They did not achieve their ground objectives, true, but this was not due to inability or lack of military capability, but to the political calls made by the Israeli Cabinet. Hez is now a big hero....to the terrorists.

"Israel" completed none of its stated objectives. Ergo "Israel" lost.

[Flagg]

Nukes should not exist in the first place and they sure as hell should never be anything but a nice deterant. A weapon so ridicilously powerfull that it is worthless.

I like that. So true.

[Flagg]

"Israel" completed none of its stated objectives. Ergo "Israel" lost.

There is some truth in that. Terrorists aren't like a conventional tangiable army you can shoot at. You can never really win a war aganst terrorism. A war that never ends.

[singern]

There is some truth in that. Terrorists aren't like a conventional tangiable army you can shoot at. You can never really win a war aganst terrorism. A war that never ends.

Agreed.
The idea that the IDF was in anyway defeated is laughable,
Terrorism in this form is a cultural twist of the dominating religion. its in the schools, its on tv, its everywhere. No smart bomb can take out a culture. What you can do is make the price for terror so very high that the general population wont tolerate it.

The real looser here is Lebanon which will soon wake up to the fact that there country is in utter ruins, and logistically, and economically destroyed because of the Hezbola.

IMO: Any single bullet that fly's across the border from South Lebanon into Israel, I would send in the wuppass and take out an entire village. For every rocket I would take out half the country.

[Flagg]

Agreed.
The idea that the IDF was in anyway defeated is laughable,
Terrorism in this form is a cultural twist of the dominating religion. its in the schools, its on tv, its everywhere. No smart bomb can take out a culture. What you can do is make the price for terror so very high that the general population wont tolerate it.

The real looser here is Lebanon which will soon wake up to the fact that there country is in utter ruins, and logistically, and economically destroyed because of the Hezbola.

IMO: Any single bullet that fly's across the border from South Lebanon into Israel, I would send in the wuppass and take out an entire village. For every rocket I would take out half the country.

Sometimes I wonder if that's the only way, hit someone far FAR harder when they hit you, incapacitate them but there is always going to be some dumb stupid young muslim radical that is going to be promised glories of virgins in paradise that will gladly blow up planes or schools full of "infidels" for the glory of Allah. Prehaps religion should be outlawed.

[k0nsl]

There is some truth in that. Terrorists aren't like a conventional tangiable army you can shoot at. You can never really win a war aganst terrorism. A war that never ends.

There wouldn't have been a conflict had the "Israeli soldiers" not crossed the border and entered Lebanon. It was entirely their own fault and they should have been prepared for the consequences. So what do they do? They excerise their power within the media to make them out to be the "victim", as always.

[singern]

Im sorry, were you sleeping when this whole thing started?
Did you miss the part where Hezbola crossed the border into Israel, killed eight people, and kidnapped two. Al manar TV must be showing reruns of Nasrala's Hashish dance party........

[k0nsl]

Im sorry, were you sleeping when this whole thing started?
Did you miss the part where Hezbola crossed the border into Israel, killed eight people, and kidnapped two. Al manar TV must be showing reruns of Nasrala's Hashish dance party........

I don't watch TV, only rarely. It is obvious that you do, however.

Look at this quote:

The Lebanese Shiite Hezbollah movement announced on Wednesday that its guerrillas have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon. "Implementing our promise to free Arab prisoners in Israeli jails, our strugglers have captured two Israeli soldiers in southern Lebanon," a statement by Hezbollah said. "The two soldiers have already been moved to a safe place," it added. The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they "infiltrated" into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.

This could be read in the Hindustan Times and is furthermore collaborated by Forbes and a slew of other papers.

So there really is no need to moan if you're a "Israeli" about this occurrence, none at all! Hezbollah did the right thing. The whole conflict was instigated by "Israeli soldiers" and could have been avoided by simply not going there in the first place. On top if it all, the pathetic little artificial state completed none of its outlined objectives, as I say

[singern]

The Lebanese police said that the two soldiers were captured as they "infiltrated" into the town of Aitaa al-Chaab inside the Lebanese border.

A Pathetically predictable response of denial, and propaganda.
The world at large and even the UN forces have confirmed the location of the infiltration by Hezbola terrorists into Israeli territory. I even remember a translated speech by Narsala himself praising the mission into Israel.

July 12
http://english.aljazeera.net
Hezbollah fighters seize two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. Eight Israeli soldiers are also killed in the attack.

And here is a little quote from the cockroach himself:
"Hassan Nasrallah: How can death become joyous? How can death become happiness? When Al-Hussein asked his nephew Al-Qassem, when he had not yet reached puberty: "How do you like the taste of death, son?" He answered that it was sweeter than honey. How can the foul taste of death become sweeter than honey? Only through conviction, ideology, and faith, through belief, and devotion."



Keep tossing crap into the ring and hope it sticks, is that your strategy?

[k0nsl]

July 12
http://english.aljazeera.net
Hezbollah fighters seize two Israeli soldiers in a cross-border raid. Eight Israeli soldiers are also killed in the attack.

Yep. Apparently you need some clarification on this crossing of border; two "Israeli soldiers" crossed the border of southern Lebanon. They were captured (rightfully), end of story - the pitiful little "state" got its panties in a bunch and started bombing but accomplished hardly anything, except taking the life of numerous children, elderly and entire families.

http://k0nsl.com/k0nsl/HeadlessBaby.jpg

On the other hand, the approval rating of Hezbollah in Lebanon and in Europe is increasing.

Keep tossing crap into the ring and hope it sticks, is that your strategy?

Only if I were you, but as we know, that isn't the case.

[singern]

Yep. Apparently you need some clarification on this crossing of border; two "Israeli soldiers" crossed the border of southern Lebanon. They were captured (rightfully), end of story - .

Yeah, I saw that movie on Al Manar it was called "The Jihadist guide to lobotomy" A wonderful documentary written by Nasrala on his first pilgrimage to the Hashish hotel, where he meets Bin Laden, and Hitler.................I didnt know Nasrala could bend over that way, but you wacky Jihadists are full of surprises..

[Pazienza]

http://www.spacewar.com/reports/Mili...ctory_999.html

Good article. Even a blind man can see that Israel lost in every way in this battle, it might be due to the weak leadership of Olmert and Peretz. Israel did no achieve a single goal. Israel lost in ground battles. The only "win" Israel won was destroying Lebanese infrastructure, most of which were civilian infrastructure. This was costly for Israel because now Arab countries see a strategy in which Israel is beatable. For a small guerilla army to cause so much havoc on the Jewish state was a huge feat. It dashed the mythical Israel Army and its power, the aura is no more. This is the most dangerous outcome for Israel.

Also this was a preview of a war between the US and Iran or Israel and Iran. If this war was successful it could have been used as a model against Iran. Since it was a failure, that plan it out the table, and Iran seems stronger. Will Israel even attempt to attack Iran now? Highly unlikely.

Imagine a guerilla army with 3000 full time soldiers did such a great job. Imagine an Iranian army with much better weaponry and better training, facing a country like Israel. The outcome is easily predictable. The dynamics in the Middle East is bound to change with the Iranian powerhouse now in the picture.