Tell me again my Canadian cousins, gun control works?

[biglouie250]

just some FYI: the 2nd amendment to the US constitution reads:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Now it is not very well known that "bear arms" in the English of the time meant that they were allowed to having a standing militia and NOT that individuals had the right to posses fire arms, "bear arms" today has taken on the meaning that individuals have the right to posses firearms which is not true to what the constitution meant in the English of the day. So to all who say "its my right" blah blah blah, you should probably read the constitution and understand it meant before you spew what you hear on TV.

[Teabagger]

You're the one spewing Louie...as a matter of fact the left wing gun grabbers don't even try to argue that bullshit any longer because any Constitutional scholar of any standing has told them its bullshit. They now just want to circumvent the Constitution. So you and the Brady Bunch can use any tactic you like to disarm US citizens...but claiming it is not a right that we the people have, not we the militia, is old, tiring and intellectully retarded.

[Phreak101]

So you se no logic in the fact that if there is less guns in society it will be hardet for criminals to get ahold of it
Its obviously proven to work in the nordic countries, we have very very few shootings. Offcourse they still happen everynow and then and offcourse there are illegal weapons here aswell. But every little shithead on the street cant get ahold of a gun here.

Not less guns, less LEGAL guns. Gun control measures are meant to make the weapons harder to get, not have less supply of them.

Gun control or not, if a junkie needs a gun, he can get one.

[Phreak101]

I'm afraid you're right there... and no laws on the planet will stop someone from getting an illegal firearm, just as no law on the planet will stop you or me from buying gear.

Whet they hope to do with the law is to reduce the availibility of guns to steal and resell on the black market (and that has worked as now most crime guns are smuggled from the US).



Well, yes and no...

You have to understand what the laws are here. First and foremost, we have no constitutional right to own weapons... firearm ownership is a privilege here.

There is an outright ban on certain types of weapons (handguns and assault weapons). We as a society choose to seriously restrict them.

On the other hand almost anyone can own hunting weapons (I own several myself). All you need to do is to get a firearms licence (which is basically a "screening"), and register the weapons.

The second part to this gun law dictates how you are to store the guns, and thats just common sense (gun safe or trigger lock, and weapon unloaded).



If my house is being robbed, I won't fire off a warning shot... if hearing the action of my 12ga cycle isn't enough for mr badguy to shit his pants, he'll get the shotgun colonestomy. End of story.

I got my 12ga under my bed and 3 shells of #4 in my night table. The gun has a trigger lock on it and the key is with the 3 shells.

Whats starting to worry me though is that apparently this maniac may have bought his restricted gun legally (which is complicated and involves months of paperwork and investigations). If thats the case, something went seriosuly wrong with his screening and some heads are gonna roll.

Red

All good points, I'm bowing out of this, the debate of gun control is a tough one because if you're anti-control you're practically condoning violence...damn.

[Kärnfysikern]

Not less guns, less LEGAL guns. Gun control measures are meant to make the weapons harder to get, not have less supply of them.

Gun control or not, if a junkie needs a gun, he can get one.

The net effect becomes less guns aviable. If it was as easy for criminals in sweden to get ahold of guns like in the states we would have more gun related crimes...

I agree with red, if someone REALY wants a gun they will get it just like we will get juice no matter what and druggies get drugs. But for the avarge thugh it might mean having a knife instead of a gun. Il rather face a robber that threatens me with a knife.

[RA]

just some FYI: the 2nd amendment to the US constitution reads:

"A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed."

Now it is not very well known that "bear arms" in the English of the time meant that they were allowed to having a standing militia and NOT that individuals had the right to posses fire arms, "bear arms" today has taken on the meaning that individuals have the right to posses firearms which is not true to what the constitution meant in the English of the day. So to all who say "its my right" blah blah blah, you should probably read the constitution and understand it meant before you spew what you hear on TV.

lol, you shot yourself in the foot.

[Prada]

The net effect becomes less guns aviable. If it was as easy for criminals in sweden to get ahold of guns like in the states we would have more gun related crimes...

I agree with red, if someone REALY wants a gun they will get it just like we will get juice no matter what and druggies get drugs. But for the avarge thugh it might mean having a knife instead of a gun. Il rather face a robber that threatens me with a knife.

Agreed. For me it is not even a debatable issue. Theoratically speaking one can debate the pros and cons of arms. Practically it's a non issue, in the real world, just go to as Johan has mentioned Nordic countries, even France, Switzerland, Germany, Austrialia, Canada. The level of gun related violence is extraordinairly and significantly less. I really dont even know why this is an issue.

[breacherup]

I don't think it's the mere presence of guns. In Switzerland there is mandatory service in the military reserves and males are REQUIRED to keep their "assault" rifles and 50 rounds of ammo in their homes. I don't recall of any school shootings, or work place massacres in Geneva.I have been there, I saw young men with rifles slung over their shoulders in stores and walking down the street.

[Prada]

Go look at the chart.
http://www.mppgv.org/gun%20owner%20responsiblity.htm

The next link, I read this article in French this morning by an Americain or Australian ,I forget, Philip Alpers, has done many studies on gun related, laws, crimes etcetera.
This version is in Portugese or spanish but the chart is very comprehenisble on pg 22
http://www.desarme.org/publique/medi...ip%20alpers%22

Notice anything that deviates from the standard or the norm?

[breacherup]

Agreed. For me it is not even a debatable issue. Theoratically speaking one can debate the pros and cons of arms. Practically it's a non issue, in the real world, just go to as Johan has mentioned Nordic countries, even France, Switzerland, Germany, Austrialia, Canada. The level of gun related violence is extraordinairly and significantly less. I really dont even know why this is an issue.

according to the link in your last post, the Swiss have a higher percentage of homes with firearms but a lower gun death rate than the USA, so again I state that it is not just the presence of firearms-and the link from your post backs up my claim.

[IronFreakX]

Yeah that chart.....

The US is bigger than those countries so we are bound to have more......but % wise it could be the same....

Plus the years are different.......maybe that was the highest year for the US and the lowest for all the others??

Crap.

[Kärnfysikern]

Go look at the chart.
http://www.mppgv.org/gun%20owner%20responsiblity.htm

A couple of interesting things there. Especialy finland with 50% of households with firearms and yet only one tenth of the homocide rate as usa. Offcourse I doubt finns has the same kind of gun fetisch as americans. Im willing to bet 99% of those guns are hunting rifles.

[Kärnfysikern]

according to the link in your last post, the Swiss have a higher percentage of homes with firearms but a lower gun death rate than the USA, so again I state that it is not just the presence of firearms-and the link from your post backs up my claim.

correct me if Im wrong. But in swiss those with firearms are those in the homeguard right? and its a severe crime to even just open the ammo box they are assigned without beeing ordered to?

[breacherup]

the link backed up my point. I'm sure if you really dug in to the numbers and looked in to who was doing the shooting, you would be more interested in keeping violent offenders locked up than banning firearms.

[Prada]

Look at the second article. "Homicides in the industrial world between 1966-2002." On pg 22, of the 14 deadliest homicides in the industrialized world 7 are in the USA, no other single country is repeated. So no other country comes in two times yet for some reason USA comes in not 2 not 3 not 5 but seven times. To be fair, does America's population represent 50% of the industrialized world? Which would fairly represent this statistic. No it's much less then that, yet it represent 50% of the deadliest homicides.

In the first article I calculated that the mean(avg) of gun homicides per 100,000 is 0.69. No single country is above 1.3/100 000 yet for some reason US is at 4.4/100 000. There are 8 times more homicides then the avg country.

I'm not saying gun control is good and resolves everything, I do however suspect that culture has a lot to do with it

[Prada]

A couple of interesting things there. Especialy finland with 50% of households with firearms and yet only one tenth of the homocide rate as usa. Offcourse I doubt finns has the same kind of gun fetisch as americans. Im willing to bet 99% of those guns are hunting rifles.

You are most probably right Johan. I doubt they carry sub-machine guns or Kalashnikovs.

[Prada]

Yeah that chart.....

The US is bigger than those countries so we are bound to have more......but % wise it could be the same....

Plus the years are different.......maybe that was the highest year for the US and the lowest for all the others??

Crap.

According to your claim on size, Canada therfore should have more, correct?
Australia should have just about the same, right?

Size has nothing to do with it. It's laws(made by lawmakes and those who implement the laws) and culture.

[biglouie250]

lol, you shot yourself in the foot.

no read it again the "right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed"

now insert what i said in there bro. "the right of the people to have a standing militia shall not be infringed"

and before you call me a liberal again, i love my browning rifle and i really want to get my hands on an authentic WW2 BAR working model.......i just said what i said to annoy some people. hi teabagger.

[biglouie250]

intellectully retarded.

if the context of words change over time there is nothing intellectually retarded about it. language evolves.