100,000 slavics use first amendment rights

[Logan13]

100,000 slavics (Legal immigrants) used their first amendment rights to speak out at Gay rallies and school board meetings. They say that they have no problem with what goes on in someone's bedroom, but they will sit by as their children are force-fed the gay propaganda. "Gays have a right to protest in favor of the gay agenda, and we have the right to protest against the gay agenda."
Sacramento Bee newspaper
http://dwb.sacbee.com/content/news/s...15116920c.html
cut-n-paste
This is obviously being spun as hate speech, but the first amendment protects their right to protest regardless as no one group should expect a pass from those who oppose their agenda.

[J.S.N.]

are you talking about slavs?

the link doesn't work.

[scriptfactory]

I have no problem with people speaking about what they feel. That being said there are a lot more pressing issues that homosexuality. None of the ten commandments address homosexuality. Jesus never spoke against it even ONCE in the New Testament and yet some people feel it is one of the worst sins imaginable. Everyone sins, not just "gays"... In a world full of thieves, pedophiles, murderers and racists people seems to find too much time to speak out against homosexuals. Just my opinion, of course.

[J.S.N.]

reminds me of a great pynchon quote:

...the Firm- who, it is well known, will use anyone, traitors, murderers, perverts, negros, even women to get what They want.

[gixxerboy1]

I have no problem with people speaking about what they feel. That being said there are a lot more pressing issues that homosexuality. None of the ten commandments address homosexuality. Jesus never spoke against it even ONCE in the New Testament and yet some people feel it is one of the worst sins imaginable. Everyone sins, not just "gays"... In a world full of thieves, pedophiles, murderers and racists people seems to find too much time to speak out against homosexuals. Just my opinion, of course.

I dont know if this is what they are protesting. But some schools have a gay history month. I dont think thats something that should be going on in school and i could see why they would be protesting

[scriptfactory]

I dont know if this is what they are protesting. But some schools have a gay history month. I dont think thats something that should be going on in school and i could see why they would be protesting

Yeah, I don't know if I'd like my sons coming home and telling me what they learned during "gay history month". Sexual orientation is something that I would like to explain to my children. I don't need a school to handle that for me.

[Logan13]

Yeah, I don't know if I'd like my sons coming home and telling me what they learned during "gay history month". Sexual orientation is something that I would like to explain to my children. I don't need a school to handle that for me.

sorry about the link guys. They are not protesting homosexuality persay, they are against the ultra-liberal california school curriculum making Gay history month (april I believe) mandatory, making it mandatory that teachers teach about the contributions of homosexuals to all fields that they teach. Hell they do not even go out of their way to teach what blacks have contributed. And making "Alternative lifestyles" a one semester class that has become a prerequisite to graduation. Not finance, not parenting, not how to find a job..........."Alternative lifestyles". The part about this that I found amusing is that these ultra libs are not accustomed to people speaking out against them as it is usually the libs who are speaking out against everyone else. I guess they are finding out that Russia does not like Political correctness........

[cj1capp]

are you talking about slavs?

the link doesn't work.

DIDNT WORK FOR

[Kärnfysikern]

sorry about the link guys. They are not protesting homosexuality persay, they are against the ultra-liberal california school curriculum making Gay history month (april I believe) mandatory, making it mandatory that teachers teach about the contributions of homosexuals to all fields that they teach. Hell they do not even go out of their way to teach what blacks have contributed. And making "Alternative lifestyles" a one semester class that has become a prerequisite to graduation. Not finance, not parenting, not how to find a job..........."Alternative lifestyles". The part about this that I found amusing is that these ultra libs are not accustomed to people speaking out against them as it is usually the libs who are speaking out against everyone else. I guess they are finding out that Russia does not like Political correctness........

thats ****ed up. What a pointless thing to make mandatory.

It seems like the struggles of the libs in america is just backfiering. Shouldnt the point be that it should not matter if someone is gay, black, indian, midget.
But by pointing out shit in mandatory classes they just make the distinctions stronger, not erasing them.

Who the **** even cares if a contribution is made by a gay or straight dude? If someone wins a nobel prize Im not gonna care if he/she is banging males or females.

[Tock]

100,000 slavics (Legal immigrants) used their first amendment rights to speak out at Gay rallies and school board meetings. They say that they have no problem with what goes on in someone's bedroom, but they will sit by as their children are force-fed the gay propaganda. "Gays have a right to protest in favor of the gay agenda, and we have the right to protest against the gay agenda."
Sacramento Bee newspaper
http://dwb.sacbee.com/content/news/s...15116920c.html
cut-n-paste
This is obviously being spun as hate speech, but the first amendment protects their right to protest regardless as no one group should expect a pass from those who oppose their agenda.

Well, I Googled but couldn't find anything about 100000 slavic protesting at gay rallies and school board meetings. Once again, it seems that Logan has heard one thing, but understood it to be something else.

There has been some controversy over a bill that would require school textbooks to include a mention about the history of gays and lesbians.

From http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...&sn=002&sc=594

State law now requires that "men, women, black Americans, American Indians, Mexicans, Asians, Pacific Island people and other ethnic groups" be included in textbook descriptions of "the economic, political and social development of California and the United States of America, with particular emphasis on portraying the role of these groups in contemporary society."

"This is simply adding the LGBT community to the groups that the state has said must be included in the curriculum," said Geoffrey Kors, executive director of Equality California, which backs the bill. "There's nothing special or different.

Seems to me that if the government is going to include mention about all those other groups, there's no reason to exclude gays and lesbians, especially since there is a problem with gay-bashing. Of course, some folks just don't like queers, and don't want their children to hear anything about them from anyone.

Well, seems to me that they're gonna have to either mention all the minority groups, or none of them. Whichever way they want to go is fine by me.
--------------------------------------
Oh, by the way, I did some more Googling, and it turns out that the California Governor (Arnold) vetoed that bill about a month ago. Ya, the California Senate and House amended it so that only age-appropriate information would be presented to the kids. But I guess Arnold figured signing that bill into law wouldn't help his re-election bid . . .
-------------------------------------
-Tock

entire article follows:

CALIFORNIA
Bill would include gays in public school texts
Plan will reignite debate over who controls curricula
Wyatt Buchanan, Greg Lucas, Chronicle Staff Writers

Sunday, April 16, 2006

A proposal to require California public school textbooks to include gay and lesbian history is a top priority of the Legislature's Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, Transgender Caucus, but opponents say it would indoctrinate students.

The bill is garnering national attention because California makes up roughly 12 percent of the nation's textbook market, though major publishers said they produce national editions for other states so the law won't force kids elsewhere to learn about Harvey Milk or gay pride.

Sponsored by Sen. Sheila Kuehl, D-Santa Monica, the bill is to come before the full state Senate as soon as Monday, when it also will rekindle a long-running debate over whether state officials or California's 1,053 local school boards should choose curricula.

Another Kuehl bill, which became law in 2000, prohibits schools from discrimination based on sexual orientation. Kuehl was out of the country last week and unavailable for comment.

State law now requires that "men, women, black Americans, American Indians, Mexicans, Asians, Pacific Island people and other ethnic groups" be included in textbook descriptions of "the economic, political and social development of California and the United States of America, with particular emphasis on portraying the role of these groups in contemporary society."

"This is simply adding the LGBT community to the groups that the state has said must be included in the curriculum," said Geoffrey Kors, executive director of Equality California, which backs the bill. "There's nothing special or different.

"All students will benefit from a curriculum that's inclusive and diverse," he said. "The goal is to have students, when they learn about history, to learn about all the history and not have one group excluded. No one benefits from erasing an entire group from the history of the nation and the world."

Opponents of the bill, including major conservative religious political groups, have said the bill will require children to become supporters of gay rights.

"This is about pushing a blatant sexual agenda -- including sex changes that involve cutting off body parts -- upon impressionable schoolchildren as young as kindergarten," said Randy Thomasson, who heads the Campaign for Children and Families.

Thomasson said teaching about racial differences is not like teaching about sexual orientation because, he believes, people can change their sexual orientation. He said the bill "will require the positive portrayal of these lifestyles, with the goal of forcing students to accept them and even consider themselves eligible to engage in them."

Californians contacting the Traditional Values Coalition about the bill are outraged, said Benjamin Lopez, legislative analyst and lobbyist for that organization, which is focusing on six Democratic senators viewed as swing votes on the bill.

"We're seeing the same level of concern, objection and interest as we did with (San Francisco Assemblyman) Mark Leno's gay marriage bill," Lopez said.

The California Family Council cast the bill as "indoctrinating children with a pro-homosexual viewpoint," in its e-mail newsletter this week.

The California School Boards Association, which hasn't taken a position, generally favors vesting more decision-making authority in local boards rather than the state.

"It should be a local-level decision as to what information is appropriate," said Erika Hoffman, the association's senior lobbyist.

The state of Texas recently required health textbooks that used gender-neutral terms for marriage partners to be edited to specify man-woman relationships, said Stephen Driesler, executive director of the school division for the Association of American Publishers.

In California's education standards, gay issues are mentioned only in regard to health education and in a more clinical than cultural context.

Researchers at San Francisco State University studying gay youth and their families have found that not teaching about gays and lesbians affects adolescent development.

"It's very important for self-esteem and for (gay youth) feeling their lives matter and are important," said Caitlin Ryan, who leads the Family Acceptance Project at the school's César E. Chávez Institute.

An American Academy of Pediatrics policy states that environments critical of gay people interfere with the development of gay youth. And a 2003 Preventing School Harassment Study by the California Safe Schools Coalition found that school climate improves and students feel safer and experience less name-calling and other harassment at schools where gay and lesbian issues are taught.

The state adopts new standards for kindergarten through grade 8 in the four core subject matters -- history, math, science and English -- every six years. The state has just completed history and is revising science standards this year. English is set for review in 2008.

Maureen DiMarco, senior vice president for education policy and government affairs at Houghton Mifflin publishing, said states that did not want students to learn about gay and lesbian history and social contributions would not have to include it in their textbooks.

"With controversial curriculum -- and unfortunately gays and lesbians are controversial in a lot of states -- whether that would be included would be determined by each state," she said.

Some California districts, like Berkeley Unified, already discuss gay issues.

"Yes, we discuss that in high schools and middle and elementary schools as well," said Mark Coplan, a district spokesman. "Divorce, divided families, how family situations change. We deal with all of it."

[Logan13]

For some reason, that article in the Bee is no longer available, so here is the one from the LA Times posted below. Tock may not like the fact that other Americans have the gual to oppose his agenda in public but the fact is that they have as much right to free speech as the gay agenda does. Perhaps Tock's idea of free speech is only speech that falls in line with his own ideals. Sorry Tock, but everyone can exercise their first amendment rights, not just ultra-liberal homosexuals.........
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...home-headlines

For Gays, a Loud New Foe
Sacramento's large enclave of immigrant Slavic evangelicals is becoming a force on social issues. Their actions shock many.
By Rone Tempest, Times Staff Writer
October 13, 2006
SACRAMENTO — Organizers of the annual Rainbow Festival were prepared for trouble.

The Q Crew, a local "queer/straight alliance," distributed cards telling people what to do if approached by hostile demonstrators. Sympathetic local church groups formed a protective buffer along the festival ground's cyclone fence. Mounted police were on patrol. Jerry Sloan manned a table for Stand Up for Sacramento, a recently formed gay self-defense organization.

"So far, so good," he said. "No Russians."

The festival, held last month amid the gay bars, restaurants and shops of midtown's "Lavender Heights" neighborhood, went off without conflict. But the elaborate security preparations reflected growing tensions between Sacramento gays and the city's large and vociferous community of fundamentalist Christians from the former Soviet Union.

Over the last 18 months, Sacramento Russian-language church members have picketed gay pride events, jammed into legislative committee meetings when gay issues were on the agenda and demonstrated at school board meetings.

Incited by firebrand Russian Pentacostal pastors and polemical Russian-language newspapers, the fundamentalists turn out en masse for state Capitol protest rallies.

Last June, urging readers to attend a massive rally, the Russian newspaper the Speaker told them:

"Make a choice. It's your decision. Homosexuality is knocking on your doors and asking: 'Can I make your son gay and your daughter lesbian?' "

In most instances, the Russian-speaking demonstrators far outnumber representatives from all other anti-gay groups combined. Anti-homosexual rallies that a few years ago attracted a few dozen participants now regularly draw hundreds and sometimes thousands, many with a heavy Russian accent.

Even in a state capital where impassioned public demonstrations are a daily event, the Slavic fundamentalists stand out. Elderly women in babushkas stand next to small children carrying signs stating: "Perversion is Never Safe" and "I Am Not Learning About Gay People."

Speakers address the crowds fervently in Russian and Ukrainian.

After a wave of religious refugees that began coming here in the late 1980s, Sacramento now has one of the largest Russian-speaking populations in North America: an estimated 80,000 to 100,000 Slavic immigrants, community members say. They came primarily from the Ukraine, Georgia, Belarus and the other southern Soviet republics, and settled mostly in Sacramento's northern and western suburbs.

These immigrants are different from their Russian-speaking counterparts in New York's Brighton Beach, San Francisco's Richmond district or West Hollywood, all established Russian-immigrant enclaves that are mostly Jewish or Russian Orthodox and generally coexist with large gay populations.

West Hollywood's 11-member Russian Advisory Board recently voted 8 to 3 to send a letter to Moscow Mayor Yuri Luzkov, asking him to reconsider his decision banning gay pride events in the Russian capital.

"We want you to consider the unique partnership that has developed here in West Hollywood between the large population of Russian-speaking immigrants and the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community," the letter said.

The Sacramento community, on the other hand, is overwhelmingly evangelical — Baptist and Pentecostalist. The charismatic Pentacostal church, introduced in the Ukraine in the 1920s by missionary and martyr Ivan Efimovich Vornaev, includes speaking in tongues and washing of feet. The churches' social views are based on a literal interpretation of the Bible.

"The main issues in the Russian community here," said Vitaly Prokopchuk, a Sacramento County sheriff's deputy, "are gay issues, abortion issues and family-definition issues. To these people, these issues are very cut-and-dry in the Bible."

Sacramento has more than 70 Russian fundamentalist congregations. One of them, Bethany Missionary Slavic Church, has 3,200 members and claims to be the largest Russian-language church outside of Europe.

"Sacramento is the No. 1 gathering place for non-Jewish, non-Russian Orthodox, fundamentalist Russian and Ukrainian immigrants," said University of Oregon geographer Susan W. Hardwick, an expert on the Russian immigrant community. Similar but smaller communities, Hardwick said, have established themselves in Portland and Seattle, where they also are beginning to flex their political muscle.

But nowhere approaches Sacramento, which has a 24-hour Russian-language cable television station, two radio stations and several newspapers, all of which push a conservative message marked by strident opposition to homosexuality. A recent edition of the Speaker, for example, promoted a book, "The Pink Swastika," that contends that the extermination of Jews during World War II was the work of homosexuals inside the Nazi Party.

For Sacramento gay leaders, the sudden appearance of organized demonstrators was a major shock after years of building support in the state capital.

"We've been accepted and were just perking along," said Sloan, a 69-year-old church pastor and co-founder of Lam**a Community Center, which serves the gay community. "That's why this Russian thing was such a jolt to people."

Leaders of the religious right, however, celebrate the Russian efforts as a revival.

"My hope and my prayer," said Mark Matta, a former legislative aide who heads the Christian Public Awareness Ministries, "is that they will become a voice in the wilderness for the rest of the country."

Many credit the Slavic Christian immigrant community with filling a void left by the traditional American church and providing reinforcements in the ongoing culture wars over what should define family, acceptable sexual relationships and marriage.

"Russian Christians bring a fresh faith and uncorrupted family values to this country. They are a shining model for the rest of us in terms of faith, family, work ethic, patriotism and community," said Randy Thomasson, president of the Campaign for Children and Families.

Gay civil rights activists, meanwhile, accuse the demonstrators of hateful and aggressive tactics that they say sometimes lean dangerously toward violence.

Signs displayed by the demonstrators often equate homosexuality with pedophilia and describe the AIDS epidemic as a message from God. One of the common tactics of the demonstrators is to tap gays forcefully on the head and announce that they have been "saved."

"They've declared war on us for some reason," said Stand Up for Sacramento founder Nathan Feldman, a jewelry store clerk. "They got it into their heads that California is the land of sin and that it is their duty to cleanse the state, starting with homosexuals."

Feldman said he formed his self-defense organization after he was surrounded by dozens of Russian-speaking demonstrators at a June gay pride parade.

"I ended up getting spit on and yelled at," said Feldman, whose organization recently staged a counterdemonstration outside Bethany Slavic Missionary Church.

Prokopchuk, the Sacramento County sheriff's deputy, is for many here the voice of law and order in the Russian-Ukrainian community. A garrulous bear of a man with a burr haircut, he appears regularly on local Russian television and radio. His cellphone constantly rings with calls asking him to interpret and explain American laws and responsibilities.

Like many here, Prokopchuk, 32, arrived with his family 16 years ago from his native Ukraine after Soviet leader Mikhail S. Gorbachev loosened emigration rules for religious refugees who faced persecution under the Communist regime.

Before emigrating, many of the refugees learned about Sacramento from two sources: a short-wave fundamentalist religious radio program, "Word to Russia," that originated here, and a Russian-language newspaper, Our Days, that was printed in Sacramento and distributed to underground churches in the Soviet Union. A local Russian Baptist church persuaded several Sacramento evangelical churches to sponsor the refugees.

Prokopchuk attributes the recent political activities in Sacramento to culture shock and anti-homosexual prejudices imported from the home country.

"Back home," Prokopchuk said, "homosexuality was looked at as kind of a disgrace and a lifestyle for immoral people and prisoners. I came from a town of 30,000 people but did not know even one openly gay person."

But an even bigger factor, Prokopchuk said, is the widespread fear in the Russian-Ukrainian community that the American popular culture will capture their children.

"It's not only about homosexuality. It's also about drinking, about premarital sex and about drugs," Prokopchuk said. "Some of these people even regret coming here because they have a feeling they are losing their kids."

At a shopping center in suburban Antelope outside Sacramento, young Russians and Ukrainians skateboard in the parking lot and gather on the outdoor patio of a Starbucks.

Across the lot, Natasha Bugriyev, 31, watches warily from the counter of her Russian vitamin shop.

Compared to many immigrants, Bugriyev and her husband, a building contractor, have been quite successful since coming to Sacramento from their native Moldova 12 years ago.

The couple, active members of a Russian Baptist church, live in a 4,500-square-foot home in Roseville, an affluent Sacramento suburb. She drives a new BMW 745. He has a new Nissan Titan pickup truck.

Recently, however, they have been considering moving back to Moldova.

"Honestly, I'm scared for the kids," Bugriyev said. "We have a 5-year-old and a 1-year-old. I'm scared that when they go to school they will be in a class where they are taught it is OK for a man to sleep with another man. We are thinking that after another five years, we will move back to Moldova."

Michael Lokteff, 69, is a former high school teacher who was the voice of the "Word to Russia" broadcasts into the Soviet Union. A cheerful, white-haired lay Baptist who takes a glass of wine with his meals, Lokteff said that many of the immigrants were unprepared for culturally laissez-faire California.

In part, Lokteff blames his own broadcasts, which he said left the listeners with the impression that America, and particularly Sacramento, was a Christian bastion.

"They even thought my program was government-sponsored," Lokteff said. "They came here expecting a Christian commune, and all of a sudden the first thing they see is a gay parade."

Like the Calvinist Puritans who were the first to settle in the New World, many in the Slavic religious community have an apocalyptic worldview. To them, the United States is a chosen nation but the American church is apostate and hapless, not up to the job. The Slavic Christians view it as their duty to cleanse and save the nation in preparation for Jesus Christ's return to Earth.

"We feel the American church already lost the battle 20 years ago by remaining silent," said Victor Chernyetsky, 47, a Soviet-trained engineer who serves as administrator for the Bethany Slavic Missionary Church. "We can't remain silent. There are a lot of sins."

One of the first Slavic immigrants to jump into politics was Galina Bondar, an energetic 39-year-old registered nurse from Ukraine whose father is a leading fundamentalist pastor.

Bondar said she was inspired by a radio interview with conservative activist Randy Thomasson, who took her under his wing and taught her the rules of engagement in Sacramento. "He was the first one who taught me the civil process, Political Science 101," Bondar said.

In 1997, Bondar started her own weekly Russian-language radio program, "Heal Our Land," which tracks legislation of interest to the Russian church. She began speaking at Sacramento Russian Baptist and Pentacostal churches, urging political action.

Bondar, as much as anyone, was responsible for organizing and directing public protests, including a raucous 2005 appearance at a legislative hearing on gay marriage that marked the political coming-out of the Slavic community.

"We hate government oppression of religious freedom and family values, whether in Russia or California," Bondar said. "We just have more we can do about it in California."

Taking her movement to a new level, Bondar was one of three people in the Russian-language community to file as a candidate for a suburban school board.

On Sept. 5, the day after the Sacramento Rainbow Festival, several hundred sign-wielding demonstrators appeared at the Capitol to oppose a state Senate bill, SB 1437, that would have banned negative references based on sexual orientation from state textbooks and classes.

In the crowd were Bondar's mother, father and grandmother.

The next day, Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger vetoed the bill, stating that protection against discrimination already existed in state law.

"We may not have gotten the veto without them," said Thomasson, who spearheaded the lobbying effort against the bill.

To Bondar, the veto was a clear victory.

"Very satisfying," she said. "It shows people who participated in the civic process that their hard work was not in vain."

-Logan13

[J.S.N.]

there's something a bit masochistic about people like that. they wanna be judged as just people supposedly but they're so in your face about "queer agenda."

[Tock]

Well, reading the article from the LA Times, it looks like those Slavs, contrary to what you posted above:

They say that they have no problem with what goes on in someone's bedroom, but they will sit by as their children are force-fed the gay propaganda.

do indeed have a problem with what goes on in other people's bedrooms. They evidently are Baptist and Pentecostal folks, told by their preachers that their children are in danger of being turned into little gays and lesbians. Ya, they're just ill-informed immigrants, whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders who object to people who transgress their religious beleifs.

And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep blacks in line . . .

-Tock

[Logan13]

Well, reading the article from the LA Times, it looks like those Slavs, contrary to what you posted above:



do indeed have a problem with what goes on in other people's bedrooms. They evidently are Baptist and Pentecostal folks, told by their preachers that their children are in danger of being turned into little gays and lesbians. Ya, they're just ill-informed immigrants, whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders who object to people who transgress their religious beleifs.

And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep blacks in line . . .

-Tock

People do not get to choose their race.....DO NOT try to equate your sexual choices with race.....

[J.S.N.]

People do not get to choose their race.....DO NOT try to equate your sexual choices with race.....

c'mon now. there's no way i'd choose to be gay if it meant for an easier life or something like that.

[Tock]

Posted by Tock:
Well, reading the article from the LA Times, it looks like those Slavs, contrary to what you posted above:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
They say that they have no problem with what goes on in someone's bedroom, but they will sit by as their children are force-fed the gay propaganda.


Posted by Tock:
do indeed have a problem with what goes on in other people's bedrooms. They evidently are Baptist and Pentecostal folks, told by their preachers that their children are in danger of being turned into little gays and lesbians. Ya, they're just ill-informed immigrants, whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders who object to people who transgress their religious beleifs.

And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep blacks in line . . .

-Tock

People do not get to choose their race.....DO NOT try to equate your sexual choices with race.....

Well, then, let me say it this way:

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep Jews in line . . .


And, I notice that you declined to respond to my question,
And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Am I to construe that you have no response, and therefore was merely just "blowing wind," attempting to make gay people look like participants in some sort of conspiracy?

-Tock

[Logan13]

Posted by Tock:
Well, reading the article from the LA Times, it looks like those Slavs, contrary to what you posted above:


Quote:
Originally Posted by Logan13
They say that they have no problem with what goes on in someone's bedroom, but they will sit by as their children are force-fed the gay propaganda.


Posted by Tock:
do indeed have a problem with what goes on in other people's bedrooms. They evidently are Baptist and Pentecostal folks, told by their preachers that their children are in danger of being turned into little gays and lesbians. Ya, they're just ill-informed immigrants, whipped into a frenzy by religious leaders who object to people who transgress their religious beleifs.

And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep blacks in line . . .

-Tock






Well, then, let me say it this way:

All in all, what's going on there sorta reminds me of what they used to do regarding inter-racial marriage in the deep south, and with women voting, and making businesses stay closed on Sunday -- it's just a clash of cultures, and an ugly one. Not that much different, really, than the KKK trying to keep Jews in line . . .


And, I notice that you declined to respond to my question,
And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Am I to construe that you have no response, and therefore was merely just "blowing wind," attempting to make gay people look like participants in some sort of conspiracy?

-Tock

Will you ever tire of playing the victim and start living with your own identity?

[gixxerboy1]

I don't think the should teach gay history. If a great gay scientist found the cure for cancer he should be in our history books. But it shouldn't say the gay scientist. just like it shouldn't say the white or Jew scientist. Have separate months for different groups just separate us more. Its teaching that we are different yet the minorities want to have the same right and be treated as equal. And they should be.
When will it end. What about Italian history month. Or Scientology month.

[Phreak101]

I don't think the should teach gay history. If a great gay scientist found the cure for cancer he should be in our history books. But it shouldn't say the gay scientist. just like it shouldn't say the white or Jew scientist. Have separate months for different groups just separate us more. Its teaching that we are different yet the minorities want to have the same right and be treated as equal. And they should be.
When will it end. What about Italian history month. Or Scientology month.

Agreed. The over-compensation in an effort for tolerance leads to more seperation. Black history month, gay history month, etc., it needs to end.

Sorry if there is not enough in the history books about anyone but christian white men in the history of the US, but the US is a young country, it's time to start acting as Americans and not segregating groups, for good or bad purposes.

[Tock]

And, I notice that you declined to respond to my question,
And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Am I to construe that you have no response, and therefore was merely just "blowing wind," attempting to make gay people look like participants in some sort of conspiracy?
-Tock

Will you ever tire of playing the victim and start living with your own identity?

Will you ever answer my question?
When you do, then I will answer yours.

-Tock

[Carlos_E]

What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

Clue me in because I don't know.

[scriptfactory]

What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?

Clue me in because I don't know.

You know, the gay propoganda. Like all gays want to turn our children into gays and take over the world... I thought EVERYONE knew that...

[Carlos_E]

Oh, OK. I didn't know that. I should have my gay membership card revoked. I'm a bad homosexual not doing my part to spread propaganda.



*BAD GAY! BAD!*

[scriptfactory]

Oh, OK. I didn't know that. I should have my gay membership card revoked. I'm a bad homosexual not doing my part to spread propaganda.



*BAD GAY! BAD!*

[Logan13]

And, I notice that you declined to respond to my question,
And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Am I to construe that you have no response, and therefore was merely just "blowing wind," attempting to make gay people look like participants in some sort of conspiracy?
-Tock



Will you ever answer my question?
When you do, then I will answer yours.

-Tock

Have you not learned by now? Most of what you say or ask is not worth the time to reply to it? I will just do what most of the population would do with you and your gay banter.........

[Carlos_E]

I will just do what most of the population would do with you and your gay banter.........

Which is "I have nothing logical to back up my statement so I'll just pretend that I'm above it all to make myself feel better."

[Tock]

Originally Posted by Tock
And, I notice that you declined to respond to my question,
And what's this ". . . their children are force-fed the gay propaganda" BS? What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Am I to construe that you have no response, and therefore was merely just "blowing wind," attempting to make gay people look like participants in some sort of conspiracy?
-Tock

Have you not learned by now? Most of what you say or ask is not worth the time to reply to it? I will just do what most of the population would do with you and your gay banter.........

Have I not learned by now? Well, what I have learned is that you delight in demeaning other folks, and when challenged to back up what you say, there never is "proof for your pudding." I hope you don't cook for a living.

But go ahead, proove me wrong. Tell us all exactly what this gay propaganda you're speaking of. We are all on the edge of our seats, holding our breath, waiting for this information.

Can you do it?

-Tock

[Logan13]

Which is "I have nothing logical to back up my statement so I'll just pretend that I'm above it all to make myself feel better."

The problem is in your comprehension skills my friend, my Mensa membership will validate that. I do not want to hear about nor do I care about what you do in the privacy of your own home/apartment/trailer--whatever. One's actions and decisions in life are your's to bare. I do not judge someone for their sexual choices, but why do you insist on labeling yourselves in regards to your sexual choices? Is this all that you are---GAY? When you throw these life decisions in others faces who do not want to hear about it, you become just like the Bible bouncers who knock on our doors on Saturday morning trying to forcefeed their agenda. The door usually gets slammed in their faces, are we prejudice for doing so or do we simply not want to hear about it? Don't tell us about your sexual decisions, we just don't care. Do not force your decisions on me in an effort to alter my decisions. Just as you have the right to choose the gay lifestyle, I have the right not to condone it. Call it what you will, prejudice....people have the right to their opinions just as you do to yours. Those who oppose anything gay have become the targets of the gay population...for a group that demands understanding from the rest of us, you sure don't reciprocate. Keep your bedroom out of my living room and out of my kid's classroom! If you do not like MY decision, don't worry, I am not going to try to make you like it......get my point?
Next wave of "minority groups" that will demand "equal rights":
- polygamists will demand "equal rights" in regards to how many wives they can take. "If the gays can inter-marry, why can't I marry as many woman as I want?"
- pedophiles will demand "equal rights" in regards to their right and a child's right to choose to engage in sex.

-Logan13

[Kärnfysikern]

Well I wouldnt oppose to polygamists. Shit if some people arent satisfied with just beeing a couple and everyone is cool with it they can live however they please. Doesnt effect me.

[Tock]

. . . why do you insist on labeling yourselves in regards to your sexual choices? Is this all that you are---GAY?

Every time you mention your children or wife or girlfriend or whatever, you pretty much tell the world that you're a heterosexual. It's no different for we gays. We have boyfriends, you have girlfriends. What we say identifies us, what you say identifies you. You're being unreasonable when you say that we shouldn't tell what's going on in our lives, but it's ok for you and people you approve of to tell what's going on in theirs.
You may as well get used to it.

Keep your bedroom out of my living room and out of my kid's classroom!

Then you do the same. You want to keep gays off TV? Fine. Then keep heterosexuals off TV too. You want books portraying gay relationships out of schools? Fine. Then keep books portraying straight relationships out of schools. As they say down at the strip club, "Tit for Tat."

polygamists will demand "equal rights" in regards to how many wives they can take. "If the gays can inter-marry, why can't I marry as many woman as I want?"

As far as I can see, there is no compelling reason for the government to deny consenting adults the right to form polyamorous relationships. Maybe you know of a reason, but I can't think of any. Ever have a 3-way? Then you know of how much more fun they can be than just a run-of-the-mill 2-way.

- pedophiles will demand "equal rights" in regards to their right and a child's right to choose to engage in sex.

I don't think so. Children are not allowed to form contracts because they are presumed not to be mature enough to make informed decisions. Age requirements exist for those wishing to marry for the same reasons. Children are protected from sexual exploitation under the same reasonable age restrictions. So, in the remote possibility that some lone pedophile might demand "equal rights to have sex with young children," he or she will have to show why young children should be free to sign binding contracts with lending institutions, labor companies, businesses, the military, etc. And that will be very difficult.

You are such a worry-wart..

-Tock

[Tock]

And, Logan, I notice that you again declined to respond to my question regarding children being " . . . force-fed the gay propaganda," What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Your refusal to respond is evidence that you know of no gay propaganda.
Agree?
-Tock

[3Vandoo]

the majority of the people who are the majority of a society are now alienated by minorities and their rights, so far that now it is discriminatory!

[gixxerboy1]

Every time you mention your children or wife or girlfriend or whatever, you pretty much tell the world that you're a heterosexual. It's no different for we gays. We have boyfriends, you have girlfriends. What we say identifies us, what you say identifies you. You're being unreasonable when you say that we shouldn't tell what's going on in our lives, but it's ok for you and people you approve of to tell what's going on in theirs.
You may as well get used to it.

I do think its a little different. Yes i guess it can be taken for granted that I'm hetero when I'm talking about my gf. Just like it would be assumed your gay if your talking about your bf. I just think the difference gays seem to not just let it be assumed or taken for granted. They announce it and make sure its know they are gay. It never their lover its their gay lover. Duh your a guy hes a guy of course he is your gay lover. I could figure it out

[Carlos_E]

I do think its a little different. Yes i guess it can be taken for granted that I'm hetero when I'm talking about my gf. Just like it would be assumed your gay if your talking about your bf. I just think the difference gays seem to not just let it be assumed or taken for granted. They announce it and make sure its know they are gay. It never their lover its their gay lover. Duh your a guy hes a guy of course he is your gay lover. I could figure it out

Honestly, I've never heard a guy call his lover "gay lover." Weird that you say you hear it often and I never have. I've hear lover, partner, husband or boyfriend. I say boyfriend. Not "My gay boyfriend!"

[Tock]

Honestly, I've never heard a guy call his lover "gay lover." Weird that you say you hear it often and I never have. I've hear lover, partner, husband or boyfriend. I say boyfriend. Not "My gay boyfriend!"

Ya, same here. Actually, I hear the term "Partner" or "Life Partner" these days. "Lover" is kind of old-fashioned . . .

Anyway, Logan seems to object to gay people appearing in public as anything other than people that pass for being heterosexual. He doesn't want to see it, he doesn't want his kids to see it, doesn't want anyone's kids to see it. He just wants gays to go back into the closet and stay there.
Well, somehow I don't think that is going to happen. Just like I don't think that he's ever going to tell us just what exactly that "gay propaganda" he mentioned in the first post of this thread is.

-Tock

[Carlos_E]

Ya, same here. Actually, I hear the term "Partner" or "Life Partner" these days. "Lover" is kind of old-fashioned . . .

Anyway, Logan seems to object to gay people appearing in public as anything other than people that pass for being heterosexual. He doesn't want to see it, he doesn't want his kids to see it, doesn't want anyone's kids to see it. He just wants gays to go back into the closet and stay there.
Well, somehow I don't think that is going to happen. Just like I don't think that he's ever going to tell us just what exactly that "gay propaganda" he mentioned in the first post of this thread is.

-Tock

I asked Logan the same thing and I got a rant about everything else but the question.

[gixxerboy1]

Honestly, I've never heard a guy call his lover "gay lover." Weird that you say you hear it often and I never have. I've hear lover, partner, husband or boyfriend. I say boyfriend. Not "My gay boyfriend!"

I don't here it alot. But do here it often when out. And its usually less professional people. You are correct i wouldn't think i would you introduce someone like that, But out in the city at night i do hear it. It doesn't bother me but i was trying to answer your question.

[Tock]

. . . It doesn't bother me but i was trying to answer your question.

One question I'd like to have answered is the one I've raised regarding Logan's little "dig" at gays in his first posting in this thread, where he alleges that gays are force-feeding propaganda to children (". . . children are force-fed the gay propaganda.").

Ya, Logan, I notice that yet again you again declined to respond to my question regarding children being " . . . force-fed the gay propaganda," What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of? Your refusal to respond is evidence that you know of no gay propaganda.
Agree?
-Tock

[scriptfactory]

One question I'd like to have answered is the one I've raised regarding Logan's little "dig" at gays in his first posting in this thread, where he alleges that gays are force-feeding propaganda to children (". . . children are force-fed the gay propaganda.").

Ya, Logan, I notice that yet again you again declined to respond to my question regarding children being " . . . force-fed the gay propaganda," What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of? Your refusal to respond is evidence that you know of no gay propaganda.
Agree?
-Tock

I think you can stop beating that particular dead horse. We all already know Logan doesn't know what he is talking about in regards to that statement... He was, to put it succinctly, talking out of his ass.

[Logan13]

And, Logan, I notice that you again declined to respond to my question regarding children being " . . . force-fed the gay propaganda," What exactly is this gay propaganda you are speaking of?
Your refusal to respond is evidence that you know of no gay propaganda.
Agree?
-Tock

If you lack the ability to figure that out through my very thorough response above, that is your problem. I will spend no more time on you Tock as you obviously lack quite a few things in your life for which I can not nor will I attempt to help you with.