Litvinenko poisoned with rare radioactive isotope

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 03:45 PM

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6180682.stm

Damn thats a nasty way to kill someone.

**Xtralarg** · 11-24-2006, 03:49 PM

It has been big news here, definitley something wrong!

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 03:57 PM

Putin might be getting a bit to cocky it seems like.

Not only poisoning a british citizen but also doing it with something that can be traced so easily.

**l2elapse** · 11-24-2006, 03:58 PM

that would suck, is it tasteless im guessing?

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by justinandrews7

that would suck, is it tasteless im guessing?

Im not sure how active polonium-210 is.
But these nasty isotopes are so dangerous you just need a tiny tiny bit of it inside your system and your gone.

**Xtralarg** · 11-24-2006, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by johan

Putin might be getting a bit to cocky it seems like.

Not only poisoning a british citizen but also doing it with something that can be traced so easily.

Stright out of a James Bond film.....the X Russian spy assassinated in London by the Russian secret Service!

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by Xtralarg

Stright out of a James Bond film.....the X Russian spy assassinated in London by the Russian secret Service!

yeah ****ing crazy, the cold war is over for christ sake.

**Xtralarg** · 11-24-2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by johan

yeah ****ing crazy, the cold war is over for christ sake.

Over but obviously not forgotten!

Im sure we will never hear the truth and it will all be smoothed over by British and Russion authorities.

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 04:15 PM

I did a quick search on polonium. DAMN its nasty

Polonium-210 is very dangerous to handle in even milligram or microgram amounts, and special equipment and strict control is necessary. Damage arises from the complete absorption of the energy of the alpha particle into tissue.

The maximum permissible body burden for ingested polonium is only 0.03 microcuries, which represents a particle weighing only 6.8 x 10-^12 g. Weight for weight it is about 2.5 x 10^11 times as toxic as hydrocyanic acid. The maximum allowable concentration for soluble polonium compounds in air is about 2 x 10^-11 microcuries/cm3.

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 04:16 PM

Originally Posted by Xtralarg

Over but obviously not forgotten!

Im sure we will never hear the truth and it will all be smoothed over by British and Russion authorities.

probably. All the EU countries would be to pissed if your goverment starts a pissing contest with russia. Putin has the gas and oil so he runs the show in europe. Maby this will be a wakeup call for us europeans that we should not let ourself become to dependant on russia.

**Xtralarg** · 11-24-2006, 04:20 PM

Originally Posted by johan

probably. All the EU countries would be to pissed if your goverment starts a pissing contest with russia. Putin has the gas and oil so he runs the show in europe. Maby this will be a wakeup call for us europeans that we should not let ourself become to dependant on russia.

I doubt our government will be overly bothered with it being a Russian who has died, if it was a British spy then it would be a different story though! No need to rock the boat IMO.

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-24-2006, 04:25 PM

Originally Posted by Xtralarg

I doubt our government will be overly bothered with it being a Russian who has died, if it was a British spy then it would be a different story though! No need to rock the boat IMO.

I kind of agree, but someday someone has to call the russian goverment on the stuff they are pulling right now. First the journalist, now this. All the while gazprom is buying the largest tv channel in russia.
They are returning right back into a totalitarian state

**Xtralarg** · 11-24-2006, 04:31 PM

Originally Posted by johan

I kind of agree, but someday someone has to call the russian goverment on the stuff they are pulling right now. First the journalist, now this. All the while gazprom is buying the largest tv channel in russia.
They are returning right back into a totalitarian state

Maybe one day somebody should, the question is who? USA or China I suspect are the only two who could?

**Logan13** · 11-24-2006, 08:46 PM

I heard that the doctors did not even think it was safe to perform an autopsy on him, this must be some nasty stuff.

**Logan13** · 11-24-2006, 08:49 PM

Originally Posted by johan

I kind of agree, but someday someone has to call the russian goverment on the stuff they are pulling right now. First the journalist, now this. All the while gazprom is buying the largest tv channel in russia.
They are returning right back into a totalitarian state

And everyone seems so shocked that Russia is vetoing the sanctions against Iran. I think that we need to send a Swedish diplomatic party to Russia to ask Putin to stop what he is doing.

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-25-2006, 04:50 AM

Originally Posted by Xtralarg

Maybe one day somebody should, the question is who? USA or China I suspect are the only two who could?

Well the dependance on the EU goes both ways. The EU is buying 80% of the gas russia is exporting. We could in principle say shape up or we take our buisness elsewhere. That could ruin russia while it would only dent the EU economy. But that wont happen aslong as we are not cooperating. Like this whole pipeline that is going to run through the baltic sea to germany. The germans will become utterly dependent on Russia.

Originally Posted by Logan13

And everyone seems so shocked that Russia is vetoing the sanctions against Iran. I think that we need to send a Swedish diplomatic party to Russia to ask Putin to stop what he is doing.

Well that is another thing. Like I have always said. Putin might be ruthless, but he sure aint stupid. He wont support Iran if its going to hurt Russia and he is no friend of islam.
This is one case where the EU should use its gas imports as a barganing tool with russia. Maby promise to buy more gas if he just drops his resistance to sanctions. But it wont happen aslong as every EU country individualy is trying to get the sweatest deal with russia while ****ing other countries over.

Originally Posted by Logan13

I heard that the doctors did not even think it was safe to perform an autopsy on him, this must be some nasty stuff.

Yeah. I had a lab a couple of days ago where our teacher demonstrated how bad a isotope of iridium is. He had it in a thick lead container, carefully removed the top and let us se the sample through a angled mirror. It was like a spec of dust and still the geiger counter went absolutely nuts when he moved it close to the opening. He could only do it because the sample was old, when he has a fresh sample he cant even be in the same room and open the container. This polonium 210 is about as active as the iridium. But a alpha emiter instead of a gamma so its less risky to be around but alot worse to get into the body.

If the docs doing a autopsy just got a tiny tiny bit into the system they would get sic and probably get cancer in a few years.

Its polonium-210 kind of the same as the Americium-241 that is used in smoke detectors. Pretty much harmless outside of the body. But ingest it and you are gone.

The one thing I dont understand here is the rarity of the polonium. The quick search I did on it yesterday reviles that it is extremely rare. What a utterly stupid way to poision someone because it excludes everyone not having acess to research isotopes. Maby Putin intetionaly wants it to be obvious to send a message?

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-25-2006, 08:31 AM

More on the poisoning
http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/wo...in&oref=slogin

If substantial amounts of polonium 210 were used to poison Alexander V. Litvinenko, whoever did it presumably had access to a high-level nuclear laboratory and put himself at some risk carrying out the assassination, experts said yesterday.

Polonium 210 is highly radioactive and very toxic. By weight, it is about 250 million times as toxic as cyanide, so a particle smaller than a dust mote could be fatal. It would also, presumably, be too small to taste.

“This is wild,” said Dr. F. Lee Cantrell, a toxicologist and director of the San Diego division of the California Poison Control System. “To my knowledge, it’s never been employed as a poison before. And it’s such an obscure thing. It’s not easy to get. That’s going to be something like the K.G.B. would have in some secret facility or something.”

This must have been putin sending a message. There is no other reason to use such a wierd thing to kill him.

**Kärnfysikern** · 11-25-2006, 08:35 AM

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/11/25/wo...rtner=homepage

Before news broke of the radiation poisoning, Alex Goldfarb, a friend of Mr. Litvinenko, read what was described as the former spy’s deathbed statement, addressed largely to President Putin.

“You may succeed in silencing me, but that silence comes at a price,” the statement read. “You have shown yourself to be as barbaric and ruthless as your most hostile critics have claimed.”

“You have shown yourself to have no respect for life, liberty or any civilized value,” the statement said. “May God forgive you for what you have done, not only to me but to beloved Russia and its people.”