How the imams terrorized an airliner

[Logan13]

How the imams terrorized an airliner
Washington Times
11/28/06
Muslim religious leaders removed from a Minneapolis flight last week exhibited behavior associated with a security probe by terrorists and were not merely engaged in prayers, according to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials.
Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted "Allah" when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.
"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."
A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20, and yesterday led a protest by prayer with other religious leaders at the airline's ticket counter at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, called removing the imams an act of Islamophobia and compared it to racism against blacks.
"It's a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while black and flying while Muslim," Mr. Bray said.
The protesters also called on Congress to pass legislation to outlaw passenger profiling.
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, Texas Democrat, said the September 11 terrorist attacks "cannot be permitted to be used to justify racial profiling, harassment and discrimination of Muslim and Arab Americans."
"Understandably, the imams felt profiled, humiliated, and discriminated against by their treatment," she said.
According to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials, the imams displayed other suspicious behavior.
Three of the men asked for seat-belt extenders, although two flight attendants told police the men were not oversized. One flight attendant told police she "found this unsettling, as crew knew about the six [passengers] on board and where they were sitting." Rather than attach the extensions, the men placed the straps and buckles on the cabin floor, the flight attendant said.
The imams said they were not discussing politics and only spoke in English, but witnesses told law enforcement that the men spoke in Arabic and English, criticizing the war in Iraq and President Bush, and talking about al Qaeda and Osama bin Laden.
The imams who claimed two first-class seats said their tickets were upgraded. The gate agent told police that when the imams asked to be upgraded, they were told no such seats were available. Nevertheless, the two men were seated in first class when removed.
A flight attendant said one of the men made two trips to the rear of the plane to talk to the imam during boarding, and again when the flight was delayed because of their behavior. Aviation officials, including air marshals and pilots, said these actions alone would not warrant a second look, but the combination is suspicious.
"That's like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater. You just can't do that anymore," said Robert MacLean, a former air marshal.
"They should have been denied boarding and been investigated," Mr. MacLean said. "It looks like they are trying to create public sympathy or maybe setting someone up for a lawsuit."
The pilot with another airline who talked to The Washington Times on condition of anonymity, said he would have made the same call as the US Airways pilot.
"If any group of passengers is commingling in the terminal and didn't sit in their assigned seats or with each other, I would stop everything and investigate until they could provide me with a reason they did not sit in their assigned seats."
One of the passengers, Omar Shahin, told Newsweek the group did everything it could to avoid suspicion by wearing Western clothes, speaking English and booking seats so they were not together. He said they conducted prayers quietly and separately to avoid attention.
The imams had attended a conference sponsored by the North American Imam Federation in Minneapolis and were returning to Phoenix. Mr. Shahin, who is president of the federation, said on his Web site that none of the passengers made pro-Saddam or anti-American statements.
The pilot said the airlines are not "secretly prejudiced against any nationality, religion or culture," and that the only target of profiling is passenger behavior.
"There are certain behaviors that raise the bar, and not sitting in your assigned seat raises the bar substantially," the pilot said. "Especially since we know that this behavior has been evident in suspicious probes in the past."
"Someone at US Airways made a notably good decision," said a second pilot, who also does not work for US Airways.
A spokeswoman for US Airways declined to discuss the incident. Aviation security officials said thousands of Muslims fly every day and conduct prayers in airports in a quiet and private manner without creating incidents.

[ebjack]

"That's like shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater. You just can't do that anymore," said Robert MacLean, a former air marshal.

you have never been allowed to shout "fire" in a crowded theater

[Teabagger]

They were on their way to Phoenix? Sounds about right. There is a mosque in the Phoenix area that preaches the radical BS and it members are almost universally anti-american. Screw them, and screw the stupid racist politicians that try and play the race card....

[Phreak101]

Don't like the treatment, write home to Uncle Osama and tell him to knock the shit off. Then we as a country won't have a problem letting you indulge the freedoms that the blood of my grandfathers paid for and the a$$holes in your region seek to eliminate.

[mcpeepants]

the bias of the article by the Washington times can be seen from the title. It assumes that the imams are doing the terrorizing and the passengers and airlines are just victims. just state the information that is given and wait for the investigation. Especially since several airline companies had to settle anti-discrimination law suits with the goverment because of religious and ethnic profiling after 9-11. Phreak101 are you implying that US soldiers fought for our freedoms in WW2 and that we should honor it by giving up our freedom?

[Logan13]

the bias of the article by the Washington times can be seen from the title. It assumes that the imams are doing the terrorizing and the passengers and airlines are just victims. just state the information that is given and wait for the investigation. Especially since several airline companies had to settle anti-discrimination law suits with the goverment because of religious and ethnic profiling after 9-11. Phreak101 are you implying that US soldiers fought for our freedoms in WW2 and that we should honor it by giving up our freedom?

Actually, in the original title, the word terrorize was in iltalic. As far as bias, you may be able to that if it were the Washington Post. Phreak is not saying give up our freedoms, he is saying that we should not give up on common sense. That is what it comes down to.

[mcpeepants]

Actually, in the original title, the word terrorize was in iltalic. As far as bias, you may be able to that if it were the Washington Post. Phreak is not saying give up our freedoms, he is saying that we should not give up on common sense. That is what it comes down to.

How the imams terrorized an airliner
By Audrey Hudson
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
November 28, 2006


Muslim religious leaders removed from a Minneapolis flight last week exhibited behavior associated with a security probe by terrorists and were not merely engaged in prayers, according to witnesses, police reports and aviation security officials.
Witnesses said three of the imams were praying loudly in the concourse and repeatedly shouted "Allah" when passengers were called for boarding US Airways Flight 300 to Phoenix.
"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."
A pilot from another airline said: "That behavior has been identified as a terrorist probe in the airline industry."
But the imams who were escorted off the flight in handcuffs say they were merely praying before the 6:30 p.m. flight on Nov. 20, and yesterday led a protest by prayer with other religious leaders at the airline's ticket counter at Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport.
Mahdi Bray, executive director of the Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation, called removing the imams an act of Islamophobia and compared it to racism against blacks.
"It's a shame that as an African-American and a Muslim I have the double whammy of having to worry about driving while black and flying while Muslim," Mr. Bray said.
The protesters also called on Congress to pass legislation to outlaw passenger profiling.
Rep. Sheila Jackson-Lee, Texas Democrat, said the September 11 terrorist attacks "cannot be permitted to be used to justify racial profiling, harassment and discrimination of Muslim and Arab Americans."
"Understandably, the imams felt profiled, humiliated, and discriminated against by their treatment," she said.


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[RA]

They should stfu. If they want to fly post 9/11 just pray quietly. No one should discriminate based on religion but shouting "allah" on a plane these days..shit just use common sense

[mcpeepants]

I just copied that from the washington times website. There was nothing iltalicized in the title. It reads just how it sounds.

Phreak101 said "Don't like the treatment, write home to Uncle Osama and tell him to knock the shit off." Therefore it's OK to mistreat muslims because they "look" like Osama and happen to have the same religion. Yah that sounds like freedom.

[Logan13]

I just copied that from the washington times website. There was nothing iltalicized in the title. It reads just how it sounds.

Phreak101 said "Don't like the treatment, write home to Uncle Osama and tell him to knock the shit off." Therefore it's OK to mistreat muslims because they "look" like Osama and happen to have the same religion. Yah that sounds like freedom.

I took it from drudge report, where it was italicized. Common sense prevails over ideals........

[RA]

I took it from drudge report, where it was italicized. Common sense prevails over ideals........

cosigned

[singern]

Phreak101 said "Don't like the treatment, write home to Uncle Osama and tell him to knock the shit off." Therefore it's OK to mistreat muslims because they "look" like Osama and happen to have the same religion. Yah that sounds like freedom.

Its unfortunately the reality of the times, ..... If 99% of world terrorists were Mexicans, you can bet that any suspicious behavior would put them off my plane, faster than a microwave burrito. This is not a loss of freedom, but the preservation of life. Why would anyone be offended by that simple concept.

You cannot deny the plain fact that the Islamic community has done absolutely nothing to address or remove the radical element.
Just like I tell my kids, Either you clean up your mess, or you wont like the way I do it........

[JohnboyF]

Allah!!!

[Phreak101]

Actually, in the original title, the word terrorize was in iltalic. As far as bias, you may be able to that if it were the Washington Post. Phreak is not saying give up our freedoms, he is saying that we should not give up on common sense. That is what it comes down to.

Exactly

[Phreak101]

I just copied that from the washington times website. There was nothing iltalicized in the title. It reads just how it sounds.

Phreak101 said "Don't like the treatment, write home to Uncle Osama and tell him to knock the shit off." Therefore it's OK to mistreat muslims because they "look" like Osama and happen to have the same religion. Yah that sounds like freedom.

I was hyperbolizing the situation. Logan said it best. It's commons sense that you should not be screaming about Allah on a plane AFTER you've already caused a ruckus about seating arrangements.

My point was in these troubled times, sometimes you have to bend your will for the pains caused by people like you. You cannot expect the people of this country to give you complete religious freedom when that very religion is being used to justify killing citizens! I never said it was because they "look" like Osama bin Laden. If I'm not mistaken the article said they were black.

[mcpeepants]

I took it from drudge report, where it was italicized. Common sense prevails over ideals........

"Common sense" failed there. The men were handicuffed in front of all those passengers and taken away and latter found to have no weapons or anything and released.

[mcpeepants]

Its unfortunately the reality of the times, ..... If 99% of world terrorists were Mexicans, you can bet that any suspicious behavior would put them off my plane, faster than a microwave burrito. This is not a loss of freedom, but the preservation of life. Why would anyone be offended by that simple concept.

You cannot deny the plain fact that the Islamic community has done absolutely nothing to address or remove the radical element.
Just like I tell my kids, Either you clean up your mess, or you wont like the way I do it........

Let say that al qaieda and its cohorts have 1 million terrorist armed and ready (over exaggerating their numbers). There are 1 billion muslims in the world. That would mean 0.1% of muslims are terrorist. We're suspecting all muslims because of 0.1% of there population.

[Phreak101]

Let say that al qaieda and its cohorts have 1 million terrorist armed and ready (over exaggerating their numbers). There are 1 billion muslims in the world. That would mean 0.1% of muslims are terrorist. We're suspecting all muslims because of 0.1% of there population.

.000001% of that .1% is all it takes to set off a dirty bomb in a crowded American city...

[singern]

Let say that al qaieda and its cohorts have 1 million terrorist armed and ready (over exaggerating their numbers). There are 1 billion muslims in the world. That would mean 0.1% of muslims are terrorist. We're suspecting all muslims because of 0.1% of there population.

It may be 1 percent that are terrorists, but its 50 to 60 percent that support them, and even more that celebrate there actions. Since the financing, training, and protection of terrorists comes from the Muslim community, and petrol dollars, you tell me.............

As has been repeated many times "we have to be correct all of the time, but terrorists only to be correct once"

[Logan13]

Let say that al qaieda and its cohorts have 1 million terrorist armed and ready (over exaggerating their numbers). There are 1 billion muslims in the world. That would mean 0.1% of muslims are terrorist. We're suspecting all muslims because of 0.1% of there population.

This same logic could be applied in regards to total Muslims who frequent airlines for travel as opposed to the very small amount of Muslim detained like these individuals were. They needed to use common sense, I believe that they were pushing the envelope in regards to this. They are obviously not part of the solution..........just as you are not.

[Logan13]

It may be 1 percent that are terrorists, but its 50 to 60 percent that support them, and even more that celebrate there actions. Since the financing, training, and protection of terrorists comes from the Muslim community, and petrol dollars, you tell me.............

As has been repeated many times "we have to be correct all of the time, but terrorists only to be correct once"

Common sense is inborn - it can not be taught to him.

[mcpeepants]

I was hyperbolizing the situation. Logan said it best. It's commons sense that you should not be screaming about Allah on a plane AFTER you've already caused a ruckus about seating arrangements.

My point was in these troubled times, sometimes you have to bend your will for the pains caused by people like you. You cannot expect the people of this country to give you complete religious freedom when that very religion is being used to justify killing citizens! I never said it was because they "look" like Osama bin Laden. If I'm not mistaken the article said they were black.

The investigation is done so we don't know what they said or didn't say. And why should it be a "crime" to pray or talk in arabic? You just pointed in your response that "you can't expect the people of this country to give you complete religious freedom when that very religion is being used to justify killing citizens." The kind of attacks your talk about freedom. Also the Nazis had a warped view of christianity, I didn't see us banning christianity in the US or thinking they should have less freedom.

I think the Imams are arabs based on my relocation from the news a couple days. The guy who says he is black in the article was not one of the Imams, he is the a director of Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation.

[Logan13]

The investigation is done so we don't know what they said or didn't say. And why should it be a "crime" to pray or talk in arabic? You just pointed in your response that "you can't expect the people of this country to give you complete religious freedom when that very religion is being used to justify killing citizens." The kind of attacks your talk about freedom. Also the Nazis had a warped view of christianity, I didn't see us banning christianity in the US or thinking they should have less freedom.

I think the Imams are arabs based on my relocation from the news a couple days. The guy who says he is black in the article was not one of the Imams, he is the a director of Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation.

You and other like-minded people will be held responsible for your inability to grasp the seriousness and the need for security in this country. I guess that when we get another terrorist attack, you can sit back and say "Thousands may have died, but at least we gave the Muslims their religious freedoms"
Warped view of reality....naive and dangerous.

[mcpeepants]

This same logic could be applied in regards to total Muslims who frequent airlines for travel as opposed to the very small amount of Muslim detained like these individuals were. They needed to use common sense, I believe that they were pushing the envelope in regards to this. They are obviously not part of the solution..........just as you are not.

If the same thing happened to you and you found to be innocents after being handcuffed in front of all those people, you would be pissed too. Are they a problem, because they seem to fit a couple of "descriptions" or something? It's easy to talk about profiling, until it starts happening to you.

[Phreak101]

The investigation is done so we don't know what they said or didn't say. And why should it be a "crime" to pray or talk in arabic? You just pointed in your response that "you can't expect the people of this country to give you complete religious freedom when that very religion is being used to justify killing citizens." The kind of attacks your talk about freedom. Also the Nazis had a warped view of christianity, I didn't see us banning christianity in the US or thinking they should have less freedom.

I think the Imams are arabs based on my relocation from the news a couple days. The guy who says he is black in the article was not one of the Imams, he is the a director of Muslim American Society Freedom Foundation.

"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."

Far cry from "just praying". Freedom or no, the times are changing. Deal with it. I would not walk into an NAACP meeting and start saying "ALL HAIL DAVID DUKE!". Sorry! But if you want to take advantage of what America has to offer, be sensitive to what AMERICANS are sensitive about. Americans are sensitive about 9/11, so as a Muslim, even an American citizen, just pray to yourself. No one wants to here the same prayers that were being recited as Nick Berg's head was being sawed off. If 6 irishman started praying very loudly on a British Airways flight, I'd be a little nervous as well! It's just about acting appropriately in your surroundings. When in Rome...

[Logan13]

If the same thing happened to you and you found to be innocents after being handcuffed in front of all those people, you would be pissed too. Are they a problem, because they seem to fit a couple of "descriptions" or something? It's easy to talk about profiling, until it starts happening to you.

Common sense would have avoided this situation. This occurred as a direct result with how these people were acting. To further my point, if it were simple profiling every muslim would be detained. BTW, profiling is not a bad thing, common sense.

[mcpeepants]

It may be 1 percent that are terrorists, but its 50 to 60 percent that support them, and even more that celebrate there actions. Since the financing, training, and protection of terrorists comes from the Muslim community, and petrol dollars, you tell me.............

As has been repeated many times "we have to be correct all of the time, but terrorists only to be correct once"

If 1 percent were terrorists, that would be 10 million terrorists. That would be more terrorists that the combined military of China, the US, and India. Even my idea of 0.1% is unrealistic because that would be a million terrorists. Where did that 50-60 come number up? If that were so, there would be know western people, christians, jews, securalist from Morocco to Indonesia. Europe would be seeing insurgent violence similar to Iraq.

[Phreak101]

You and other like-minded people will be held responsible for your inability to grasp the seriousness and the need for security in this country. I guess that when we get another terrorist attack, you can sit back and say "Thousands may have died, but at least we gave the Muslims their religious freedoms"
Warped view of reality....naive and dangerous.

Agreed. The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. If we give our freedoms away, people will take advantage. like people who have student visas and apply for flight school and then fly commerical jetliners into crowded buildings.

[mcpeepants]

"I was suspicious by the way they were praying very loud," the gate agent told the Minneapolis Police Department.
Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.
"That would alarm me," said a federal air marshal who asked to remain anonymous. "They now control all of the entry and exit routes to the plane."

Far cry from "just praying". Freedom or no, the times are changing. Deal with it. I would not walk into an NAACP meeting and start saying "ALL HAIL DAVID DUKE!". Sorry! But if you want to take advantage of what America has to offer, be sensitive to what AMERICANS are sensitive about. Americans are sensitive about 9/11, so as a Muslim, even an American citizen, just pray to yourself. No one wants to here the same prayers that were being recited as Nick Berg's head was being sawed off. If 6 irishman started praying very loudly on a British Airways flight, I'd be a little nervous as well! It's just about acting appropriately in your surroundings. When in Rome...

PRAISE GOD, The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. That's praying real loud. how is that threatening? They just did in another language that most Americans aren't use to. How is praying in arabic the same as prasing David Duke in room full of black people?

[singern]

If 1 percent were terrorists, that would be 10 million terrorists. That would be more terrorists that the combined military of China, the US, and India. Even my idea of 0.1% is unrealistic because that would be a million terrorists. Where did that 50-60 come number up? If that were so, there would be know western people, christians, jews, securalist from Morocco to Indonesia. Europe would be seeing insurgent violence similar to Iraq.

Thats correct. Just take a look at whats happening now in central, and northern Africa, and you will see the same barbaric bloodletting results you speak of. Fortunately most civilised counties have a system of laws, democracy, and a healthy definition of right vs wrong.

[Phreak101]

PRAISE GOD, The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. That's praying real loud. how is that threatening? They just did in another language that most Americans aren't use to. How is praying in arabic the same as prasing David Duke in room full of black people?

Praying in Arabic LOUDLY on a plane while sitting in a formation that was used to hijack planes BY OTHER ISLAMICS is threatening.

When I hear ALLAH UH AKBAR! screamed, it is usually followed by a giant explosion or a beheading.

Thats how its different.

[singern]

PRAISE GOD, The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT AMEN. That's praying real loud. how is that threatening? They just did in another language that most Americans aren't use to. How is praying in arabic the same as prasing David Duke in room full of black people?

Your missing the point,
If every Christian would say out loud "PRAISE GOD, The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT" followed by decapitating an innocent person, or blowing up a school bus......... would you then feel the same?

[Phreak101]

If racism was the open, it would be 1950 or apartheid South Africa. If profile every muslims, we couldn't be pretend be a free country. Just put up a sign, everyone is free unless or your muslim or arab or "look like one" because your always guilty until proven innocent.

Sounds good to me. Better than 3,000 more Americans dying...

[mcpeepants]

Common sense would have avoided this situation. This occurred as a direct result with how these people were acting. To further my point, if it were simple profiling every muslim would be detained. BTW, profiling is not a bad thing, common sense.

If racism was the open, it would be 1950 or apartheid South Africa. If profile every muslims, we couldn't be pretend be a free country. Just put up a sign, everyone is free unless or your muslim or arab or "look like one" because your always guilty until proven innocent.

[Phreak101]

Terrorist seating formation? Could you enlighten me on how islamic terrorist sit when there going to hijack a plane. Allah Akbar is used during muslims daily prayers. It's also used a battle cry. Also it's still speculative what they did and didn't say.

Passengers and flight attendants told law-enforcement officials the imams switched from their assigned seats to a pattern associated with the September 11 terrorist attacks and also found in probes of U.S. security since the attacks -- two in the front row first-class, two in the middle of the plane on the exit aisle and two in the rear of the cabin.

Feel enlightened now?

I don't give a sh!t what it's used for. Don't scream things associated with terrorism ON A PLANE! (Especially battle cry's ) Why is this so hard to grasp for you?

[mcpeepants]

Praying in Arabic LOUDLY on a plane while sitting in a formation that was used to hijack planes BY OTHER ISLAMICS is threatening.

When I hear ALLAH UH AKBAR! screamed, it is usually followed by a giant explosion or a beheading.

Thats how its different.

Terrorist seating formation? Could you enlighten me on how islamic terrorist sit when there going to hijack a plane. Allah Akbar is used during muslims daily prayers. It's also used a battle cry. Also it's still speculative what they did and didn't say.

[Phreak101]

If something like that happens to you, a bet you what be smiling?

What??

Why are my posts coming before yours?

[mcpeepants]

Sounds good to me. Better than 3,000 more Americans dying...

If something like that happens to you, a bet you what be smiling?

[Phreak101]

I don't know what christian terrorists say before they kill someone and I'm not about to try and found out.

They sure don't say "God is great!"

[mcpeepants]

Your missing the point,
If every Christian would say out loud "PRAISE GOD, The FATHER, SON and HOLY SPIRIT" followed by decapitating an innocent person, or blowing up a school bus......... would you then feel the same?

I don't know what christian terrorists say before they kill someone and I'm not about to try and found out.