"Religion does more harm than good - poll"

**Prada** · 12-23-2006, 04:12 PM

http://www.guardian.co.uk/frontpage/...978046,00.html

More people in Britain think religion causes harm than believe it does good, according to a Guardian/ICM poll published today. It shows that an overwhelming majority see religion as a cause of division and tension - greatly outnumbering the smaller majority who also believe that it can be a force for good.
The poll also reveals that non-believers outnumber believers in Britain by almost two to one. It paints a picture of a sceptical nation with massive doubts about the effect religion has on society: 82% of those questioned say they see religion as a cause of division and tension between people. Only 16% disagree. The findings are at odds with attempts by some religious leaders to define the country as one made up of many faith communities.

Most people have no personal faith, the poll shows, with only 33% of those questioned describing themselves as "a religious person". A clear majority, 63%, say that they are not religious - including more than half of those who describe themselves as Christian.
Older people and women are the most likely to believe in a god, with 37% of women saying they are religious, compared with 29% of men.

The findings come at the end of a year in which multiculturalism and the role of different faiths in society has been at the heart of a divisive political debate.

But a spokesman for the Church of England denied yesterday that mainstream religion was the source of tension. He also insisted that the "impression of secularism in this country is overrated".

"You also have to bear in mind how society has changed. It is more difficult to go to church now than it was. Communities are displaced, people work longer hours - it's harder to fit it in. It doesn't alter the fact that the Church of England will get 1 million people in church every Sunday, which is larger than any other gathering in the country."

The Right Rev Bishop Dunn, Bishop of Hexham and Newcastle, added: "The perception that faith is a cause of division can often be because faith is misused for other uses and other agendas."

The poll suggests, however, that in modern Britain religious observance has become a habit reserved for special occasions. Only 13% of those questioned claimed to visit a place of worship at least once a week, with 43% saying they never attended religious services.

Non-Christians are the most regular attenders - 29% say they attend a religious service at least weekly. Yet Christmas remains a religious festival for many people, with 54% of Christians questioned saying they intended to go to a religious service over the holiday period.

Well-off people are more likely to plan to visit a church at Christmas: 64% of those in the highest economic categories expect to attend, compared with 43% of those in the bottom group.

Britain's generally tolerant attitude to religion is underlined by the small proportion who say the country is best described as a Christian one. Only 17% think this. The clear majority, 62%, agree Britain is better described as "a religious country of many faiths".

ICM interviewed a random sample of 1,006 adults aged 18+ by telephone between December 12 and 13. Interviews were conducted across the country and the results have been weighted to the profile of all adults. ICM is a member of the British Polling Council and abides by its rules

**Flagg** · 12-23-2006, 04:12 PM

Unfortunately this thread will be closed very shortly.

**Flagg** · 12-23-2006, 04:18 PM

The sooner Science disproves the existence of Heaven and Hell, the sooner we can lay to rest another silly superstition. Amazing that people would laugh at the existence of a Vampire or Werewolf but blindly believe in Angels.

**Snrf** · 12-23-2006, 04:24 PM

ibtln!

**crash187ct** · 12-23-2006, 04:37 PM

remind me again....or better yet, inform me for the first time....why would this be locked? religious posts still unwanted?? i'm guessing here....

SVTMuscle* · 12-23-2006, 04:57 PM

Originally Posted by Flagg

The sooner Science disproves the existence of Heaven and Hell, the sooner we can lay to rest another silly superstition. Amazing that people would laugh at the existence of a Vampire or Werewolf but blindly believe in Angels.

I always find it astonishing how some people will believe in Heaven/Hell/Angels, but yet, they dont believe in Aliens.

**Flagg** · 12-23-2006, 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by SVTMuscle

I always find it astonishing how some people will believe in Heaven/Hell/Angels, but yet, they dont believe in Aliens.

Agreed.

**Snrf** · 12-23-2006, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by SVTMuscle

I always find it astonishing how some people will believe in Heaven/Hell/Angels, but yet, they dont believe in Aliens.

N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

Drake Equation

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

SVTMuscle* · 12-23-2006, 05:18 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

Drake Equation

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

Very interesting

**Snrf** · 12-23-2006, 05:26 PM

yup, total thread hijack but fcukit.

Even if you do it at conservative estimates you end up with quite a few intelligent species in just OUR galaxy..and there are 500 billion in the universe (estimate of course)...

according to my conservative estimate of N=100bn x 20% x 1.5 x 1% x 10% x 10% x 1/1,000,000th we have 2 intelligent life forms in our galaxy...

multiply that across the universe and you have 1 trillion different intelligent life forms.....

edited to make it WAY more conservative....just so people can't say im too optimistic

edited again cuz i checked on NASA site and it said they believe there are 500 billion galaxies not 125

**crash187ct** · 12-23-2006, 06:31 PM

Originally Posted by Snrfmaster

N = R x fp x ne x fl x fi x fc x L

Drake Equation

http://www.activemind.com/Mysterious..._equation.html

thats retarded

**Snrf** · 12-23-2006, 06:41 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drake_equation

more on it there

**Joey2ness** · 12-23-2006, 08:08 PM

Originally Posted by SVTMuscle

I always find it astonishing how some people will believe in Heaven/Hell/Angels, but yet, they dont believe in Aliens.

Some people believe when someone dies a untimely death or suffer before death they take the risk of becoming a ghost and haunt the place where they died. Ghosts cant go up or down they stay on earth so some choose to believe in heaven

P.S. I have no idea how something can exist if you cant see or touch it.

**JohnboyF** · 12-23-2006, 08:14 PM

Thank GOD!!!

i got this in before the lock

**MuscleScience** · 12-24-2006, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by Joey2ness

Some people believe when someone dies a untimely death or suffer before death they take the risk of becoming a ghost and haunt the place where they died. Ghosts cant go up or down they stay on earth so some choose to believe in heaven

P.S. I have no idea how something can exist if you cant see or touch it.

Gravity, microwaves, radio, air!
Valid Point

**rafael** · 12-24-2006, 03:15 AM

i believe in what i can see / touch / smell...basically i use my senses,,,anything else is bull imo

**Sepsis** · 12-24-2006, 04:28 AM

one day everyone will realize that religion was invented to control the massases and does nothing but divide humanity! ****ing idiots!

**singern** · 12-24-2006, 10:59 AM

If I may use a known quote. "organized religion is a crutch for weak minded people"

IMO:
religion was once used as a "scared straight tactic" and today is certainly useful in places where people still live by the sword, cutting each others heads off. However in modern civilized society the need for such control has been replaced with the rule of law, order, and civil rights. With the exception of those people who need that extra help in there lives.

Having said that I should add that faith in itself is an extremely personal thing and should be respected even if we do not believe.

**alphaman** · 12-24-2006, 11:28 AM

Originally Posted by singern

If I may use a known quote. "organized religion is a crutch for weak minded people"

Having said that I should add that faith in itself is an extremely personal thing and should be respected even if we do not believe.

Do these two statements belong in the same post?

**alphaman** · 12-24-2006, 11:31 AM

Originally Posted by Sepsis

one day everyone will realize that religion was invented to control the massases and does nothing but divide humanity! ****ing idiots!

Post a source.

**Prada** · 12-24-2006, 11:56 AM

The only reason that this thread may be locked is when individuals take it off on a tangent and can not have a civilized discussion on it. Hence, those not mature enough or lacking the mental capacity have to resort to arguing in a disrespectful manner and name calling like children on a playground.

One thing I have learned is that arguing about religion is futile, one will not change the mind of the other, therefore respecting others POV is the least that can be done. I have to admit that in my experience there are only very, very few individual which with whom one can have an enlightening discussion about religion without passions flaring. The rest are either atheist or extremist.

**Snrf** · 12-24-2006, 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by Prada

The only reason that this thread may be locked is when individuals take it off on a tangent and can not have a civilized discussion on it. Hence, those not mature enough or lacking the mental capacity have to resort to arguing in a disrespectful manner and name calling like children on a playground.

One thing I have learned is that arguing about religion is futile, one will not change the mind of the other, therefore respecting others POV is the least that can be done. I have to admit that in my experience there are only very, very few individual which with whom one can have an enlightening discussion about religion without passions flaring. The rest are either atheist or extremist.

Don't tar everyone with the same brush, I'm an atheist, my father was a vicar among other things and my mum is a religious education teacher...I've grown up all my life having civilized discussions about religion w/o tempers flaring...

**singern** · 12-24-2006, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by alphaman

Do these two statements belong in the same post?

One is a personal opinion, the other is a show of respect. They can and do belong.

**Tock** · 12-24-2006, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by singern

One is a personal opinion, the other is a show of respect. They can and do belong.

Works for me.

Even though, IMHO, the Bible is not a book to be taken seriously,
I really don't care what other people beleive, so long as they don't push their beleifs off on other folks. Or on me. Live and let live.

**singern** · 12-24-2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

Works for me.

Even though, IMHO, the Bible is not a book to be taken seriously,
I really don't care what other people beleive, so long as they don't push their beleifs off on other folks. Or on me. Live and let live.

Thats where the respect part comes in.
Cheers mate.

**Joey2ness** · 12-24-2006, 07:45 PM

people will believe anything if enough people say it. Better illustrated, Mark Twain said "It is my belief that nearly any invented quotation, played with confidence, stands a good chance to deceive."

Im Here to Tear Down Christianity

Christians will tell you Virgin Mary gave birth to Jesus Christ but there is no scientific proof and Maury Povich was not there to do DNA or paternity testing back then.

Some people say Virgin Mary was 12 years old when was pregnant with baby Jesus. In bibilical times it was 14 years of age, which was the age of marriage and giving birth. CNN correspondent said Virgin Mary was barely in her teens when she was pregnant with Jesus.

Her parents might be shocked to find out she was pregnant. Its not unusual if the young girl concocted the whole story about how she got pregnant as it doesn't sound far-fetched. If her virgin birth was false then that would destroy Christianity as the religion that relys on the virgin birth. The teaching of the Catholic Church that Mary was a virgin is not accepted by a number of liberal Christian scholars

**alphaman** · 12-24-2006, 08:05 PM

Originally Posted by singern

One is a personal opinion, the other is a show of respect. They can and do belong.

Ok. It just seemed odd to call those who have faith 'weak-minded' and say that those who have faith should be treated with respect in the same breath... well.... I don't know -- it just seems conflicting, ya know?

**alphaman** · 12-24-2006, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by Tock

Works for me.

Even though, IMHO, the Bible is not a book to be taken seriously,
I really don't care what other people beleive, so long as they don't push their beleifs off on other folks. Or on me. Live and let live.

Who decides to let life continue? You and I have no choice in whether we live or die.

**Red Ketchup** · 12-24-2006, 08:21 PM

Originally Posted by singern

Having said that I should add that faith in itself is an extremely personal thing and should be respected even if we do not believe.

In full agreement here...

**Joey2ness** · 12-24-2006, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by Sepsis

one day everyone will realize that religion was invented to control the massases and does nothing but divide humanity! ****ing idiots!

Adolph Hitler

German dictator Adolf Hitler once remarked "The great masses of the people... will more easily fall victims to a big lie than to a small one." Sadly, for once in his life, the most evil, twisted and demented man in the history of the world made a correct observation regarding human behavior. Corporal Hitler was right: people will believe anything if enough people say it. Better illustrated, Mark Twain said "It is my belief that nearly any invented quotation, played with confidence, stands a good chance to deceive."

**Logan13** · 12-24-2006, 11:38 PM

2001 US Census data:
Christian 78% (Protestant 52%, Roman Catholic 24% Mormon 2%) other 10%, none 10%, Jewish 1%, Muslim 1%

http://www.census.gov/compendia/stat...es/07s0073.xls

I believe that it is just "stylish" to speak negatively about religion......
Many would like a world in which they would not be judged by what they do, problem is, they could not handle it.