Gen. Pace calls homosexuality immoral

[Tock]

i dont think homosexuality should be allowed in military....

It seems to work just fine in other countries. Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel, for example, are among twenty-four foreign armed forces that have lifted their gay bans since the Dutch became the first military to do so in 1974. England recruiters, in fact, go to gay areas to get gays to enlist. In Israel, everyone serves time in the military, including gays.

I don't see what the problem is here in the USA.

[DNoMac]

The military's been kicking out lots of gay people -- 8,116 between 1994 and 2005. Despite the great need for Arabic-speaking people, they kicked out 66 interpreters because they were gay. I guess that's what happens when you let the government run a war . . .



From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don't_ask,_don't_tell

-----------------------------------------------
Statistics on the number of persons discharged from the military in the fiscal years since the policy was first introduced (1993):

Year Coast Guard Marines Navy Army Air Force Total
1994 0 36 258 136 187 617
1995 15 69 269 184 235 772
1996 12 60 315 199 284 870
1997 10 78 413 197 309 1,007
1998 14 77 345 312 415 1,163
1999 12 97 314 271 352 1,046
2000 19 104 358 573 177 1,231
2001 * — — — — — 1,273
2002 * — — — — — 906
2003 * — — — — — 787
2004 15 59 177 325 92 668
2005 16 75 177 386 88 742
Total 113 655 2,626 2,583 2,139 8,116

I wasn't saying that I didn't believe you, because I know it goes down. I was just saying from personal experience, I had never heard of it. I've only known of one guy who was gay that made it through his enlistment (not sure if it was known). Who knows though, I could be working with some guys who are gay and just not know it. I'd be rather shocked though, they are a rough-neck bunch of fellas. Again, what kind of discharge is it?

[DNoMac]

Figures the navy has the most

[Carlos_E]

I'd be rather shocked though, they are a rough-neck bunch of fellas.

You just described by bf. He's in the military.

[mcpeepants]

It seems to work just fine in other countries. Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel, for example, are among twenty-four foreign armed forces that have lifted their gay bans since the Dutch became the first military to do so in 1974. England recruiters, in fact, go to gay areas to get gays to enlist. In Israel, everyone serves time in the military, including gays.

I don't see what the problem is here in the USA.

these nations show that politicians and the pentagon are trying to hide their bigotry under the premise of "hurting troops" morale. Israel is one of the top militaries on the planet and Britain and Australia, which have troops in Iraq, should throw that notion in the garbage.

the white house says we're fighting the terrorists because they "hate our freeedon" yet the US will not allow gays to openly serve in the military

[biglouie250]

he also said this on the leadership of Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld: "He leads in a way that the good Lord tells him is best for our country"......

anyone that says something like that is a moron. harvard educated or not that statement makes him the dumbest person in the military.

[alphaman]

i dont think homosexuality should be allowed in military....

Who does? (except gays and liberal politicians who want gay votes.)

[Carlos_E]

Who does? (except gays and liberal politicians who want gay votes.)

...and Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel. I'm sure they did it for political reasons.

[alphaman]

...and Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel. I'm sure they did it for political reasons.

poticially? I don't know what that is, but I'm sure it was for political reasons.

[Carlos_E]

It's called a typo. I'm sure you've made one before. Either way my point stands. You honestly think Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel allow gays in the military for votes?

[alphaman]

It's called a typo. I'm sure you've made one before.

I was just kidding. What you typed sounded funny to me. Kinda like pootie-cialis. You sure you didn't subconsciously type it?

Either way my point stands. You honestly think Britain, Germany, Canada, Australia, and Israel allow gays in the military for votes?

England, Germany and Australia are all more socially liberal than we are. Israel is a different story because everybody has to join. Just think of how many people would be coming out of imaginary closets here if they brought the draft back.

Dude -- I really don't feel that strongly about it -- it doesn't matter if I do or not because I'm not in the military. What military people think is a different story. I guarantee that if a vote was taken, it would be overwhelmingly obvious that gays aren't wanted by soldiers in the military.

[DNoMac]

You just described by bf. He's in the military.

Like I said in the other thread, your absolutely right. However, I guess when I say "rough neck", you'd have to know the guys to understand what I mean. Like your boyfriend, I'm sure there are plenty of gay guys who fit this discription. But I guess when I say rough neck, I among other things, these guys are horn balls/perverts. They are open about there sexuality and there sexual experiences, a lot have been with prostitutes. To kill time, guys will tell stories about past sexual encounters.

[Carlos_E]

Like I said in the other thread, your absolutely right. However, I guess when I say "rough neck", you'd have to know the guys to understand what I mean. Like your boyfriend, I'm sure there are plenty of gay guys who fit this discription. But I guess when I say rough neck, I among other things, these guys are horn balls/perverts. They are open about there sexuality and there sexual experiences, a lot have been with prostitutes. To kill time, guys will tell stories about past sexual encounters.

When they tell you stories they could be changing the gender. Like mine, they think he's dating a woman who competes bodybuilding and works in IT. One day he called me on the phone asking me about female bodybuilding because the guys were asking him questions. I was rolling lau***ng saying you painted yourself into a corner huh?

[Carlos_E]

pootie-cialis. You sure you didn't subconsciously type it?

I have no diea what that is.

I'm not in the military. What military people think is a different story. I guarantee that if a vote was taken, it would be overwhelmingly obvious that gays aren't wanted by soldiers in the military.

As you said, you're not in the military. What do you know? From talking to people who are in the military they really don't give a shit. When they're getting shot at the last thing on their mind is if the guy next them is gay. You're taking your personal view and assuming everyone else feels the same.

[mcmajor]

its happening every single day. those guys do it each other left right and centre. only you have to keep your mouth shut. no telling, period!..denial is the motto. just like condoms wont be distributed in prisons!

[Logan13]

Again with the equating homosexuality and bestiality. sigh.
The statement that homosexuality is aberrant and way outside of the norm is pretty debatable. I live in a major city. I can tell you that gays are everywhere. *everywhere*. And where ever you live, I can assure you they are everywhere too, just not as obvious to you.

Your statement may be true.....for where you live. Read my entire postings, not just a few words for which you would like to argue.

[Tock]

I wasn't saying that I didn't believe you, because I know it goes down. I was just saying from personal experience, I had never heard of it. I've only known of one guy who was gay that made it through his enlistment (not sure if it was known). Who knows though, I could be working with some guys who are gay and just not know it. I'd be rather shocked though, they are a rough-neck bunch of fellas. Again, what kind of discharge is it?

What kind of discharge, eh?
If they catch you in the act, that would probably be a less than honorable discharge, which is like a big 666 tattooed on your forehead when you go looking for a job, because employers look at your discharge papers, and if you have anything less than an Honorable, you're SOL.
Ya, they can still give you 5 years in prison for having gay sex, even though it's no longer illegal anywhere in the US.

Me, I was smart and got a lawyer before I told the USAF I was gay. I got out with an Honorable discharge, but I know of a few others that weren't so lucky.

[Tock]

Dude -- I really don't feel that strongly about it -- it doesn't matter if I do or not because I'm not in the military. What military people think is a different story. I guarantee that if a vote was taken, it would be overwhelmingly obvious that gays aren't wanted by soldiers in the military.

Yes and no.

If you were to ask soldiers who didn't know any gay people, they'd probably say they wouldn't want any in the military. But, as was my case in the USAF, the guys in my barracks (the same ones I shared the showers with) all felt that I should be allowed to stay in the USAF.

The first guy, a marine, who got wounded in Iraq recently came out of his closet. He got some awards for something, got to do photo-ops with Bush & etc before he came out, but I'm pretty sure that if they could patch him up good enough to go back to Iraq, his former marine buds would take him back.
Same thing would probably apply to the gay guy who was awarded "Soldier Of The Year" from the Army, a few years ago.

The deal is, straight guys usually like us gay guys once they get to know us. A few hard-core types never will, and that's fine by me, can't expect everyone to like ya. But a vote like that, well, how it turns out depends on how you do it, whether or not they're voting for the gay people they know, or the gay people they don't know.

[DNoMac]

I'm in the military and I could give a fvck if somebody is gay. People always get the impression that if a guy is gay, he is guaranteed to come on to you. I can't speak for other members of the military, but if there was a vote, I'd probably have to say the majority would vote otherwise.