Iran Does Far Worse Than Ignore Gays, Critics Say

[Logan13]

I find it hilarious that the far left often sympathizes and makes excuse for Ahmadinejad and his anti-american rhetoric.
Iran Does Far Worse Than Ignore Gays, Critics Say
Fox News
Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's seemingly ridiculous claim that "we don't have homosexuals, like in your country" masks the cruel reality that his government does far worse than ignore gays, human rights groups charge.

"There are criminal laws on the books in Iran that allows for people to be killed for being homosexual," said Paula Ettelbrick, executive director of the International Gay and Lesbian Human Rights Commission.

Just how many gays may have been killed — some say the figure is more than 400 — is impossible to determine. Routine harassment and systematic torture of gays in Iran is quite common, charge human rights groups.

"The most likely sentence is some jail plus anywhere between 10 and a couple of hundred lashes," said Scott Long, who follows gay rights issues for Human Rights Watch. "No one who survives them is likely to forget them."

But Ahmadinejad's flip follow-up answer to the question posed to him Monday at Columbia University — "We do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who has told you that we have" — suggests he won't take the issue seriously.

Human rights groups have long railed against the Iranian government's persecution of gays, which Ettelbrick calls "a campaign by the government to draw attention to the risks of people expressing their sexuality." Some believe that repression has only worsened since Ahmadinejad became president.

"When I first heard his comments yesterday, I laughed," said Arsham Parsi, founder of the Toronto-based Iranian Queer Organization.

"But after I thought about it, I realized this is really a very strong statement. By denying we exist, he does not even acknowledge that we have human rights."

Iranian gays who try to operate in these circles do so at great peril. In one case widely covered by Western news agencies, Iran allegedly executed in July, 2005, an 18-year-old man and a minor for the "crime" of homosexuality.

The stories and a series of disturbing pictures of the executions were covered by the Iranian Student News Agency (ISNA), and widely distributed on the Internet.

• Click here to see the pictures. Warning: Graphic Content.

Iranian officials insisted the two were guilty of not just homosexuality, but the forcible rape of an underage boy. Gay rights supporters say those charges are often applied to homosexuals who engage in consensual relations.

Parsi said initial Iranian news reports said the two young men were executed because they were gay. But as reports and pictures of the case became more widely disseminated, Iranian officials only later included information about additional criminal charges.

According to Iranian law, consensual gay sex in any form is punishable by death. Violators are reportedly given a choice of four methods of execution: hanging, stoning, halving by sword — or being dropped from the highest perch.

Ironically, Parsi says the truth is that Iranian officials actually know quite a bit about homosexuals in Iran. Gay men in Iran are allowed medical dispensations from mandatory military service, for example, and the country's secret police constantly monitor gay activities through Internet chat rooms and other electronic methods.

[Kärnfysikern]

The far left sympathise with assholes like him because they in general dont want democracy and they support anyone that is against the west.

[mcpeepants]

it's like Ahmadinejad is preaching to the republican base

[Logan13]

it's like Ahmadinejad is preaching to the republican base

too bad that the far left is the group that is always playing the apologist for him.......

[Logan13]

The far left sympathise with assholes like him because they in general dont want democracy and they support anyone that is against the west.

impressive and true.

[mcpeepants]

too bad that the far left is the group that is always playing the apologist for him.......

he spouts the same anti-rhetoric that a lot of republicans politicians and fundamentalist Christians do. if your so incensed by his view, maybe you should take a look at and rebuke some of the anti-gay politicians and religious figures that are closer to home.

[RA]

The far left sympathise with assholes like him because they in general dont want democracy and they support anyone that is against the west.

Totally agree

[Bigen12]

Strange that there aren't any dissenting opinions.....

[Logan13]

he spouts the same anti-rhetoric that a lot of republicans politicians and fundamentalist Christians do. if your so incensed by his view, maybe you should take a look at and rebuke some of the anti-gay politicians and religious figures that are closer to home.

This thread is about Iran's policy of killing homosexuals. Either stick to it, or refrain from comment as you are only proving my point that the far left is always making excuses for the iranian leader.....

[mcpeepants]

This thread is about Iran's policy of killing homosexuals. Either stick to it, or refrain from comment as you are only proving my point that the far left is always making excuses for the iranian leader.....

Iran is very socially conservative and they definitely persecute homosexuals and this is a good reason why not to mix religion and state. One surprising thing is that sex changes are legal in Iran and that state support has increased since Ahmadinejad became power. Iran will change with time.

[bpm1]

im sure its a true statement like u said ,THEY KILL ALL THE GAYS!!!!! so where are the bleeding heart liberal human rights freeks now!!! they always disappear in these situations, just like afganistan, where are all the womens rights groups for those women?!! guess they dont care bout women over there, a bunch of hypocrites and liars if u ask me

[bpm1]

Iran is very socially conservative and they definitely persecute homosexuals and this is a good reason why not to mix religion and state. One surprising thing is that sex changes are legal in Iran and that state support has increased since Ahmadinejad became power. Iran will change with time.

id love to see documentation on that(from a legitimate source, mind you)

[mcpeepants]

id love to see documentation on that(from a legitimate source, mind you)

all post two articles below

[mcpeepants]

Sex change funding undermines no gays claim


· Ahmadinejad account rejected in Iran
· Homosexuality illegal but transsexuals tolerated

Robert Tait in Tehran
Wednesday September 26, 2007
The Guardian

When Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran's combative president, provoked his latest controversy in New York this week by asserting that there were no homosexuals in his country, he may have been indulging in sophistry or just plain wishful thinking.

While Mr Ahmadinejad may want to believe that his Islamic society is exclusively non-gay, it is a belief undermined by the paradox that transsexuality and sex changes are tolerated and encouraged under Iran's theocratic system.

Article continues
Iran has between 15,000 and 20,000 transsexuals, according to official statistics, although unofficial estimates put the figure at up to 150,000. Iran carries out more gender change operations than any country in the world besides Thailand.

Sex changes have been legal since the late Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini, spiritual leader of the 1979 Islamic revolution, passed a fatwa authorising them nearly 25 years ago. Whereas homosexuality is considered a sin, transsexuality is categorised as an illness subject to cure.

While the government seeks to keep its approval quiet, state support has increased since Mr Ahmadinejad took office in 2005. His government has begun providing grants of £2,250 for operations and further funding for hormone therapy. It is also proposing loans of up to £2,750 to allow those undergoing surgery to start their own businesses.

Maryam Khatoon Molkara, leader of the country's main transsexual organisation, said some of those undergoing operations were gay rather than out-and-out transsexuals. "In Iran, transsexuals are part of the homosexual family. Is it possible that a phenomenon exists in the world but not in Iran? Transsexuality is a real disaster. It's a one-way street. But if somebody wants to study, have a future and live like others they should go through this surgery."

At Columbia University on Monday, Mr Ahmadinejad said homosexuality did not exist in Iran. "In Iran we don't have homosexuals like in your country," he told a questioner who accused his government of executing gay people. "In Iran we do not have this phenomenon. I don't know who has told you that we have it."

But Ms Molkara - who persuaded Khomeini to issue the fatwa on transsexuality - said his stance was inconsistent with the state's sex-change policy. "They are saying homosexuality doesn't exist, but they have never given me a chance to use my influence among transsexuals to prevent transsexuality from happening," she said. "You could change the culture but the press and state TV are not allowed to write or say anything about transsexuality."

The president's claim was an eye-opener to Iranian human rights lawyers, who said the country's Islamic legal code made draconian provision for homosexual offences by men and women.

It also outraged international gay rights activists, who recalled numerous executions under Iran's sodomy laws. When legal officials announced the execution of 12 prisoners at Tehran's Evin prison in July, they said the condemned included several "sodomites". According to campaigners, several gay men have been caught up in a wave of hangings over the summer, although the claims are hard to verify.

There have been other high-profile cases in recent years, including that of two teenagers, Mahmoud Asgari and Ayaz Marhoni, who were publicly hanged in the north-eastern city of Mashhad in the summer of 2005 after admitting having sex. This summer, Pegah Emambakhsh, an Iranian lesbian, was granted permission to take her case to the court of appeal in Britain after claiming she would be in danger of execution if the Home Office implemented its ruling to deport her to Iran.

"Homosexuality is defined both for men and women in law. There is a section devoted to homosexuality," Shirin Ebadi, the Nobel peace prize-winning human rights lawyer, said. "There is one part for homosexuality in men, which is called lavat [sodomy], which is punishable by death. There is another for women, which is called mosahegheh. If the crime is committed up to three times, the penalty is 100 lashes. On the fourth, it is execution."

source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/sto...d=networkfront

[mcpeepants]

No Gays in Iran… But Many Same-Sex Couples

New America Media, Commentary, William O. Beeman, Posted: Sep 26, 2007

Editor’s Note: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s comment that homosexuality does not exist in Iran like it does in the West is true in a sense, writes anthropologist William Beeman. In fact, same-sex relations in Iran do look very different from what is called gay behavior in the West.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was derided for his statement in a Sept. 24 speech at Columbia University that homosexuality doesn't exist in Iran. Though many Americans may find it incredible, differences in the construction of sexual behavior do exist across cultures.

As an anthropologist, I can state with confidence that sexuality varies tremendously between cultures. The notion that one is either "gay" or "straight" does not accord with what we observe in human sexual behavior, which is far more flexible. This categorization is an artifact of American culture, which glories in binary categories for classifying people. Folks that identify as "bisexual" (yet another ambiguous category) in the United States often get grief from both the gay and straight community for "deluding" themselves about their sexuality.

Of course it is impossible to discern precisely what President Ahmadinejad meant in his remarks. But what is true is the construction of same-sex behavior and, indeed, same-sex affection in Iran is extremely different than in Europe and America. There has been a recent phenomenon of Western-style "gay culture" emerging in Iran – replete with gay bars, clubs and house parties – but this is very new, largely limited to the upper classes, and likely not known to President Ahmadinejad, whose social milieu is the middle and lower-middle class. This recent Western-style gay phenomenon is distinct from ordinary same-sex behavior as practiced traditionally in Iran. Indeed, there was not even a word for homosexuality in Persian before the 20th century. It had to be invented. The term used by President Ahmadinejad was “hamjensbaz,” a neologism that literally means, “playing with the same sex.”

In Iran, same-sex sexual behavior is classified rigidly into active and passive roles. The Arabic terms “fa’el” and “maf’oul” (active and passive – actually grammatical terms used to describe active and passive verbs) were the common designation for these roles. The passive partner is still called by the Arabic term “obneh,” or, more crudely, “kuni.” (Kun means anus.) The active vs. passive same-sex preference is well known in the Western world, but it is constructed quite differently in Iran and other Arab and Mediterranean cultures.

Active partners in Iran do not consider themselves to be “homosexual.” Indeed, it is a kind of macho boast in some circles that one has been an active partner with another male. Passive partners are denigrated and carry a life-long stigma if their sexual role is known, even after a single incident. They have been deflowered, as it were, in the same way that women might lose their virginity, and they are considered to be "xarob" or "destroyed."

In actual fact, many men are "versatile" in their sexual activity but if they are known to have relations with other men, they will always claim in public to be the active partner. Same-sex relations between females are undoubtedly practiced, but this is the deepest secret in Iran, and rarely talked about at all.

Emotional relations are very different. Men and women both may become exceptionally attached to people of the same sex, to the point that Westerners would swear that they must have a sexual relationship. It is not necessarily so. Kissing, holding hands, weeping, jealousy, physical contact and all the signs of partnership can exist without any sexual activity or, indeed, with an undercurrent of absolute horror that it might take place, because of the active-passive split in sexual classification and men's fear of being pegged as a passive partner. A man who truly loves another man doesn't want to degrade him by making him a passive sex partner.

More typically, male teenagers who become exceptionally attached may marry sisters in order to become kin to each other, thereby creating a lifelong bond. There is even a quasi-marriage ceremony based on the idea of “muta,” or temporary marriage, through which two men or two women can become fictive “siblings.” This takes care of many things, allowing intimate relations, and intimacy between family relations, but also imposing an even stronger taboo against sexual relations, which would be considered incest.

Iranians who come to Europe and the United States may "discover" that they are "gay" once they are liberated from the rigid cultural system that binds them into these polarized active-passive roles.

To be sure, sodomy is punishable by death in Iran, but such executions have been historically extremely rare compared with the routine incidence of same-sex sexual behavior in Iran. Much was made in the United States of two boys who were executed in the city of Mashhad a few years ago for "being homosexual," as the Western press put it. However, they were executed because they had essentially committed what we would call statutory rape on an under-aged boy. The boy's father was beside himself with rage and grief, and pressed charges. In many such cases, the shame of the family and the victim himself is so great that no one ever finds out.

In the end, both the United States and Iran classify sexuality in a way that fails to accord with the range of actual human proclivities. However, there is no doubt that the two systems are very different.

William O. Beeman is professor and chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities. He has been conducting research in Iran for more than 30 years, and is a fluent speaker of Persian. He is author of Language, Status and Power in Iran and The "Great Satan" vs. the "Mad Mullahs": How the United States and Iran Demonize Each Other, the second edition of which will be published later this year by the University of Chicago Press.

source: http://news.newamericamedia.org/news...f0343&from=rss

[Logan13]

No Gays in Iran… But Many Same-Sex Couples

New America Media, Commentary, William O. Beeman, Posted: Sep 26, 2007

Editor’s Note: Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s comment that homosexuality does not exist in Iran like it does in the West is true in a sense, writes anthropologist William Beeman. In fact, same-sex relations in Iran do look very different from what is called gay behavior in the West.

Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad was derided for his statement in a Sept. 24 speech at Columbia University that homosexuality doesn't exist in Iran. Though many Americans may find it incredible, differences in the construction of sexual behavior do exist across cultures.

As an anthropologist, I can state with confidence that sexuality varies tremendously between cultures. The notion that one is either "gay" or "straight" does not accord with what we observe in human sexual behavior, which is far more flexible. This categorization is an artifact of American culture, which glories in binary categories for classifying people. Folks that identify as "bisexual" (yet another ambiguous category) in the United States often get grief from both the gay and straight community for "deluding" themselves about their sexuality.

Of course it is impossible to discern precisely what President Ahmadinejad meant in his remarks. But what is true is the construction of same-sex behavior and, indeed, same-sex affection in Iran is extremely different than in Europe and America. There has been a recent phenomenon of Western-style "gay culture" emerging in Iran – replete with gay bars, clubs and house parties – but this is very new, largely limited to the upper classes, and likely not known to President Ahmadinejad, whose social milieu is the middle and lower-middle class. This recent Western-style gay phenomenon is distinct from ordinary same-sex behavior as practiced traditionally in Iran. Indeed, there was not even a word for homosexuality in Persian before the 20th century. It had to be invented. The term used by President Ahmadinejad was “hamjensbaz,” a neologism that literally means, “playing with the same sex.”

In Iran, same-sex sexual behavior is classified rigidly into active and passive roles. The Arabic terms “fa’el” and “maf’oul” (active and passive – actually grammatical terms used to describe active and passive verbs) were the common designation for these roles. The passive partner is still called by the Arabic term “obneh,” or, more crudely, “kuni.” (Kun means anus.) The active vs. passive same-sex preference is well known in the Western world, but it is constructed quite differently in Iran and other Arab and Mediterranean cultures.

Active partners in Iran do not consider themselves to be “homosexual.” Indeed, it is a kind of macho boast in some circles that one has been an active partner with another male. Passive partners are denigrated and carry a life-long stigma if their sexual role is known, even after a single incident. They have been deflowered, as it were, in the same way that women might lose their virginity, and they are considered to be "xarob" or "destroyed."

In actual fact, many men are "versatile" in their sexual activity but if they are known to have relations with other men, they will always claim in public to be the active partner. Same-sex relations between females are undoubtedly practiced, but this is the deepest secret in Iran, and rarely talked about at all.

Emotional relations are very different. Men and women both may become exceptionally attached to people of the same sex, to the point that Westerners would swear that they must have a sexual relationship. It is not necessarily so. Kissing, holding hands, weeping, jealousy, physical contact and all the signs of partnership can exist without any sexual activity or, indeed, with an undercurrent of absolute horror that it might take place, because of the active-passive split in sexual classification and men's fear of being pegged as a passive partner. A man who truly loves another man doesn't want to degrade him by making him a passive sex partner.

More typically, male teenagers who become exceptionally attached may marry sisters in order to become kin to each other, thereby creating a lifelong bond. There is even a quasi-marriage ceremony based on the idea of “muta,” or temporary marriage, through which two men or two women can become fictive “siblings.” This takes care of many things, allowing intimate relations, and intimacy between family relations, but also imposing an even stronger taboo against sexual relations, which would be considered incest.

Iranians who come to Europe and the United States may "discover" that they are "gay" once they are liberated from the rigid cultural system that binds them into these polarized active-passive roles.

To be sure, sodomy is punishable by death in Iran, but such executions have been historically extremely rare compared with the routine incidence of same-sex sexual behavior in Iran. Much was made in the United States of two boys who were executed in the city of Mashhad a few years ago for "being homosexual," as the Western press put it. However, they were executed because they had essentially committed what we would call statutory rape on an under-aged boy. The boy's father was beside himself with rage and grief, and pressed charges. In many such cases, the shame of the family and the victim himself is so great that no one ever finds out.

In the end, both the United States and Iran classify sexuality in a way that fails to accord with the range of actual human proclivities. However, there is no doubt that the two systems are very different.

William O. Beeman is professor and chair of the department of anthropology at the University of Minnesota, Twin Cities. He has been conducting research in Iran for more than 30 years, and is a fluent speaker of Persian. He is author of Language, Status and Power in Iran and The "Great Satan" vs. the "Mad Mullahs": How the United States and Iran Demonize Each Other, the second edition of which will be published later this year by the University of Chicago Press.

source: http://news.newamericamedia.org/news...f0343&from=rss

seems that you know alot about gays and transexuality. Are you hiding something peepants?

[Bigen12]

Sex change funding undermines no gays claim


source: http://www.guardian.co.uk/gender/sto...d=networkfront

I'm amazed it's so common place, not that I think there is anything in the world wrong with it.

I wonder.......

Once, say a man has a sex change......

Do Iranian men willingly have sex with them?
Are these gender reassigned people sought after as sexual partners?
I wonder how many Iranian men are married to a being that was once a man and don't even know it?
Seeing as Ahmadinejad is so proud of not having any gays in Iran, has he or someone close to him had the change?

We could be all wrong about this guy, he could simply be a woman, who's had a sex change, and is simply having a monthly problem??

[bpm1]

deff a different take on sexuality

[mcpeepants]

seems that you know alot about gays and transexuality. Are you hiding something peepants?

this coming from one of the lead posters of threads about gays.

[mcpeepants]

I'm amazed it's so common place, not that I think there is anything in the world wrong with it.

I wonder.......

Once, say a man has a sex change......

Do Iranian men willingly have sex with them?
Are these gender reassigned people sought after as sexual partners?
I wonder how many Iranian men are married to a being that was once a man and don't even know it?
Seeing as Ahmadinejad is so proud of not having any gays in Iran, has he or someone close to him had the change?

We could be all wrong about this guy, he could simply be a woman, who's had a sex change, and is simply having a monthly problem??

This story surprised me particularly from a country as conservative as Iran.

[Logan13]

this coming from one of the lead posters of threads about gays.

Retaliatory postings