Toyota

[Kratos]

Toyota Announces Larger Q1 Loss Than GM
In what may come as a shock to all the Detroit bashers out there, Toyota announced a huge first quarter loss along with a substantial loss for the entire year. It's Toyota's first such full year loss in decades.

The news flies in the face of the constant rhetoric in the news regarding the Big Three. Most pundits love to say that if GM and Chrysler had only built smaller, more efficient cars they would be in such a financial mess.

Well, the company that most often trotted out as the model for success is now in trouble too, so we'll see what those same pundits have to say now. This time maybe they'll blame it on the world economy as a whole, and they might even be right.

http://blogs.edmunds.com/straightlin...s-than-gm.html

What this shows is that the losses of the automakers has little to do with their product mix and a lot to do with the economies of scale that require certain minimum sales levels to make the companies profitable. It also suggest that the administrations requirements that the companies make more fuel efficient cars will not increase sales.

[Kratos]

Toyota in talks for Japan government loan
Toyota talking with Japan government about loan for finance unit amid projected net loss
Yuri Kageyama, AP Business Writer
On Tuesday March 3, 2009, 7:51 am EST
Buzz up! Print Related:Toyota Motor Corp.
TOKYO (AP) -- Toyota's financing unit is in talks with a Japanese government-backed bank on possible lending, the automaker said Tuesday, underlining the serious woes facing the car industry amid plunging global sales.

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{"s" : "tm","k" : "c10,l10,p20,t10","o" : "","j" : ""} Toyota Motor Corp. said no details had been decided. Kyodo News and NHK TV reported earlier in the day, without identifying sources, that Toyota's auto loan unit, Toyota Financial Services, had asked for a 200 billion yen ($2 billion) government loan.

A spokesman for Toyota Financial Services said the talks with the Japan Bank for International Cooperation were among the various ways being studied to gain funding. The lender does 70 percent of its business in the U.S., where sales have been plunging and credit tightening.

The Japan Bank for International Cooperation, which started helping cash-strapped Japanese businesses last year as the global financial crisis unfolded, said it does not comment on individual company matters. Some companies have been struggling for cash ahead of the fiscal year end of March 31.

The Finance Ministry said Tuesday it will provide an additional $5 billion from its foreign reserves this month to the Japan Bank for International Cooperation, to make sure there is ample cash available for needy businesses. Tokyo has about $1 trillion in foreign reserves.

Finance Minister Kaoru Yosano also said the ministry stands ready to raise the money pool available for lending in yen from 800 billion yen now to 1.2 trillion yen to help companies ride out the deepening global slump.

Toyota, which makes the Camry sedan and the Prius hybrid, had been growing solidly before the U.S. financial crisis hit last year. But now it is expecting a 350 billion yen loss for the fiscal year through March, as plunging global demand and a strengthening yen batter earnings.

Toyota's projected red ink for the fiscal year through March would mark its first such annual net loss since 1950, and a sharp contrast from the record 1.72 trillion yen profit it racked up the previous year.

Toyota is still faring better than General Motors and Chrysler, which together have received $17.4 billion in emergency loans from the U.S. government, and asked for an additional $21.6 billion in aid last month.

Nissan Motor Co. has said that it is considering various types of government aid, but it declined to say Tuesday whether it was requesting for Japan Bank for International Cooperation loans. Nissan has forecast a 265 billion yen net loss for the fiscal year through March.

Toyota shares fell 0.3 percent to 3,060 yen. The news of the lending talks broke before trading ended in Tokyo.

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Toyota...-14523159.html

[J431S]

I own a chunk of GM stock shares, do u think GM will revive anytime soon? If not why not so I can plan an exit strategy?

[MuscleScience]

Good I hope Toyota dies, along with anyone else that buys their shitty ass cars....LOL

[Kratos]

Good I hope Toyota dies, along with anyone else that buys their shitty ass cars....LOL

They aren't going bankrupt anytime soon.
They have plenty of money but they're borrowing money cheap from the gvmt cheap to create an unfair advantage in the market.

Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, are all taking gvmt funds. Mitsubishi (spelling) has been in trouble for years and needs 9 billion to keep going.

Gvmts from Beijing to Berlin are bailing out their domestic auto makers.
Yet the media fuels an Anti-American sentiment. Japan is praised for fuel effecient cars but what people don't realize is it was American laws that created hybrid car madates durring the Clinton administration...a law that was repealed for stupidity...American companies rightly so killed hybrid programs and Japan simply didn't. The Japanese build smaller cars, because Japan is overpopulated.

The American car companies may emerge from bankruptcy but they'll be forced to shed huge amounts of market share to forgein competition in the process. They are also facing a media barrage to create furthre the American car company resentment.

Why do we hate our own companies? How is it selling these cars gave Japanese companies such a reputation for quality and dependibility (picture bellow). When was the last time you saw one on the road? Americans are sheap, no wonder detroit couldn't find a product they liked...who could imagine America would demand such a peice of shit.

Free trade doesn't work...it's killing America and costing us our economy.
We forced GM factories out of America. We can't export cars to Japan despite what the paper agreements say, they simply don't let us in.

Japanese manufacturing done in America is a joke, they assemble cars using cheap 13 dollar per hour labor with Japanese parts. The workers have no benifits and become a drain on the medical welfare system. And then they get praise for hiring Americans. Toyota imports something like 43% of all it's product.

America is exporting all prosperity, free trade is not free or equal. The more poor you are the easier you are to control.

[Prada]

Good I hope Toyota dies, along with anyone else that buys their shitty ass cars....LOL

Shitty ass cars?
Toyota and Lexus have the most reliable cars on the market.

[MuscleScience]

Shitty ass cars?
Toyota and Lexus have the most reliable cars on the market.

They are reliable, but the myth that american cars are not as reliable is just that a myth. They are shitty cars because I dont like any thing they build right now. I actually liked supra's but that is about it.

[Kratos]

Shitty ass cars?
Toyota and Lexus have the most reliable cars on the market.

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/bu...ss/17auto.html
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6581...est/index.html
http://autos.aol.com/article/2009-ve...bility-ranking
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/29/r...ames-mounting/


all the cars are so good these days, you almost can't go wrong

[jbm]

I love Japanese small cars but for SUV nothing beats US...

[xlxBigSexyxlx]

Yes we can!

[IM708]

Yes we can!

Was there even a single reference to obama in this whole thread?

[Prada]

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/10/17/bu...ss/17auto.html
http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6581...est/index.html
http://autos.aol.com/article/2009-ve...bility-ranking
http://www.autoblog.com/2009/04/29/r...ames-mounting/


all the cars are so good these days, you almost can't go wrong

Personally Id never buy an American car. Horrendous depreciation and not very reliable. Audi is another manufacturer I wouldnt buy. However I think Toyota and Honda over the years have a reputation that they built. Jaguar not good IMO and Trucks are not the Japs forte. JD Power is a good company that did the testing.

[warchild]

american cars suck, thats why gm is done

[Tigershark]

Yes we can!

lmao

[eliteforce]

I think your underestimating the inherent problems of the US domestic auto industry, those foreign companies are not going bankrupt; they may have borrowed money but they are not bankrupt; do you think anyone at the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, Bloomberg, any leading economist- would agree with you that the financial condition of Toyota, Honda, Porche/VW, Diamler is similar to GM or Chrysler?
The American makes are still having problems with reliability- alot of basic stuff-little platic things breaking off, the antena breaking, gaskits breaking and leaks, aircon compressors failure, service, service.. (stuff usually covered by warranty but costs absorbed by GM and Chrysler) then there's the crappy ac delco radio, the swishy power steering , the bad gas milage, the bulkiness , few compact models and bad ones at that.. the NYtimes article you just posted shows that american companies are nowhere near the Japanese in reliability rankings.
The Japanese totally beat the Americans in the hybrid market, Japan got the models out there first and they were decent albeit expensive.. what did the American companies do, they spent their time reinventing long dead 70's models like the Camero and Charger.. big expensive models that can't make any real money.

It's true what you say, Japanese factories in the US are not an equal substitute for a domestic company based in the US.. but one thing the media never talks about is these Japanese and German companies have an inherent advantage since those countries provide health care-those car companies don't have to worry about it when American companies get bogged down with providing that; the USG has debated that endlessly for the last 30 years but come up with no consistent health plan. the US government has never coordinated with their commercial manufacturing industries like Japan and Germany have.

They aren't going bankrupt anytime soon.
They have plenty of money but they're borrowing money cheap from the gvmt cheap to create an unfair advantage in the market.

Honda, Mazda, Toyota, Nissan, are all taking gvmt funds. Mitsubishi (spelling) has been in trouble for years and needs 9 billion to keep going.

Gvmts from Beijing to Berlin are bailing out their domestic auto makers.
Yet the media fuels an Anti-American sentiment. Japan is praised for fuel effecient cars but what people don't realize is it was American laws that created hybrid car madates durring the Clinton administration...a law that was repealed for stupidity...American companies rightly so killed hybrid programs and Japan simply didn't. The Japanese build smaller cars, because Japan is overpopulated.

The American car companies may emerge from bankruptcy but they'll be forced to shed huge amounts of market share to forgein competition in the process. They are also facing a media barrage to create furthre the American car company resentment.

Why do we hate our own companies? How is it selling these cars gave Japanese companies such a reputation for quality and dependibility (picture bellow). When was the last time you saw one on the road? Americans are sheap, no wonder detroit couldn't find a product they liked...who could imagine America would demand such a peice of shit.

Free trade doesn't work...it's killing America and costing us our economy.
We forced GM factories out of America. We can't export cars to Japan despite what the paper agreements say, they simply don't let us in.

Japanese manufacturing done in America is a joke, they assemble cars using cheap 13 dollar per hour labor with Japanese parts. The workers have no benifits and become a drain on the medical welfare system. And then they get praise for hiring Americans. Toyota imports something like 43% of all it's product.

America is exporting all prosperity, free trade is not free or equal. The more poor you are the easier you are to control.

[Kratos]

I think your underestimating the inherent problems of the US domestic auto industry, those foreign companies are not going bankrupt; they may have borrowed money but they are not bankrupt; do you think anyone at the Wall Street Journal, Financial Times, Bloomberg, any leading economist- would agree with you that the financial condition of Toyota, Honda, Porche/VW, Diamler is similar to GM or Chrysler?

All companies with their hand to their respective gvmts.

The American makes are still having problems with reliability- alot of basic stuff-little platic things breaking off, the antena breaking, gaskits breaking and leaks, aircon compressors failure, service, service.. (stuff usually covered by warranty but costs absorbed by GM and Chrysler) then there's the crappy ac delco radio, the swishy power steering , the bad gas milage, the bulkiness , few compact models and bad ones at that.. the NYtimes article you just posted shows that american companies are nowhere near the Japanese in reliability rankings.


That perception only exists in the public's mind. What you say about waranty claims simply isn't true. There are no aircon compressor failures, raido's they put in today in gm cars will blow your ear drums, gaskit leaks (every car company has some, americans have no higher instances), antena breaking (what?, maybe if you run into a tree branch), plastic things breaking (be a little less specific), swishy power stearing (maybe in the 1980's, but it was concidered pimp to have a little play in the wheel back then).
The laws of thermodynamics still are equal in a Japanese engine. Weight, drag coefficent, and horespower not country of orgin matter. If you drive a tin box with 100hp, you get better milage. The larger Japanese models are equal in fuel economy. Unless you do what ford is doing by offering direct injection coming this year, there are no efficency superiorities in a Japanese engine.
Nowhere near? They are a few slots down the list...but that means they break how much more often?

The Japanese totally beat the Americans in the hybrid market, Japan got the models out there first and they were decent albeit expensive.. what did the American companies do, they spent their time reinventing long dead 70's models like the Camero and Charger.. big expensive models that can't make any real money.

The hybrid market is a market that shouldn't exist. A PR bonanza for the jap companies that they cashed in on. It was a legal mandate by the US gov that they develop them. A hybid power train has no practical applications for the enviroment, or cost vs fuel consumption.
Plug in hybids may prove better. A Prius is a $15k car sold for 30 with more ecological impact then a conventional.

but one thing the media never talks about is these Japanese and German companies have an inherent advantage since those countries provide health care-those car companies don't have to worry about it when American companies get bogged down with providing that.

Gvmt healthcare still has to be deducted from their paycheck and from the taxable profits of the corperations and small businesses. It isn't free healthcare. There is a difference between providing benifits and becoming owned by the unions...the unions took too much. Toyota won't even let union reps in the factories.

http://www.themotorreport.com.au/322...kruptcy/#title
you mentioned porsche, they're looking not so healthy either
Obama's new cafe standards are going to be quite a hurdle for them as well.

I'm not saying Toyota or Honda are in the same financial problem as GM or Chrysler. But, that toyota for one is burning cash faster...they just happen to still have 20 billion in the bank. Clearly if they can one up GM in money loss, their business model isn't much better.

I'm saying through free trade we are competing with other goverments as well as their car companies. So, all the bitterness about the auto-bail out leading us to abandon out own companies is misguided frustration.

We should be much more critical of the financial crisis and gvmt mis-management that created it...as well as the fact our banks got a blank check.

It's also a crime that our gvmt is seizing 60% of GM in bankruptcy and giving the rest of the company to the union. Why? They give stock holders the finger...uninsured bond holders the finger...shed massive amounts of debt...but they're required to retain the biggest two monkey's on their back through bankruptcy. It's criminal.

[Kratos]

Yes we can!

you know it buddy!!!

[eliteforce]

Actually I got all that stuff from the horses mouths, a few years ago when I was in the US I was visiting a relatives house; at one point we went in the garage and the issue of their cars came up; he and his wife had bought their cars the same year, she went with the Honda and he decided to get the bigger american sedan- the pontiac bonnevile.. and those were all the things that had gone wrong with the pontiac when the honda had no problems.. alot of it is dumb stuff, the safety handles were fastened above the window with plastic snapon clips-the broke off after a passenger had griped them too hard during a turn, on the honda they were simply screwed on with metal screws, the antenna had this mechanism where it automatically goes up and down everytime the radio is switched on, it broke and so did LCD panel on the acdelco radio, the main gaskit between thefuel injector and the intake manifold failed- that was the biggest problem because by then the warrantee was up and the repair was very expensive, again a cheap part like the handles..the airconditioning had failed twice, it wasn't a terrible car but the american makes have alot of cheap parts even when the overall design isn't that bad..they select the lowest bidder on the parts too often. he didn't hate the car but it was just clearly second rate to the Honda and thats the problem; they're just not as good as the foreign brands. i had a good experience with a small gmc truck for a few years though, but i had to sell it while it was only a few years old but it worked fine until i was forced to get rid of it.

[Kratos]

Actually I got all that stuff from the horses mouths, a few years ago when I was in the US I was visiting a relatives house; at one point we went in the garage and the issue of their cars came up; he and his wife had bought their cars the same year, she went with the Honda and he decided to get the bigger american sedan- the pontiac bonnevile.. and those were all the things that had gone wrong with the pontiac when the honda had no problems.. alot of it is dumb stuff, the safety handles were fastened above the window with plastic snapon clips-the broke off after a passenger had griped them too hard during a turn, on the honda they were simply screwed on with metal screws, the antenna had this mechanism where it automatically goes up and down everytime the radio is switched on, it broke and so did LCD panel on the acdelco radio, the main gaskit between thefuel injector and the intake manifold failed- that was the biggest problem because by then the warrantee was up and the repair was very expensive, again a cheap part like the handles..the airconditioning had failed twice, it wasn't a terrible car but the american makes have alot of cheap parts even when the overall design isn't that bad..they select the lowest bidder on the parts too often. he didn't hate the car but it was just clearly second rate to the Honda and thats the problem; they're just not as good as the foreign brands. i had a good experience with a small gmc truck for a few years though, but i had to sell it while it was only a few years old but it worked fine until i was forced to get rid of it.

That's the horse's mouth?
The pontiac bonneville hasn't been made since 2005
and if you want to talk about a power antenna...you'd have to go pre 1999. That's over 10 years ago minimum and I'm guessing it was even pre- the last possible model you could get an antenna that went up and down. From 2000-2005 the antenna was interlaced in the glass so it didn't need to go up and down.

[eliteforce]

yea both cars were 97or98 models, but those kinds of recent experiences kill sales for GM domestic.. also GM cars sold in asia or europe are different than the ones sold in the US, more so than Toyota or Honda, or the European car manufacturers, the Toyota you get in the US is pretty much the same as the one you get in Japan, China or Europe.. the GM in Asia is doing better than the GM N.America.