Are minorities effected as a result of 9/11

[FranciscoG]

1) Do you believe other minority groups are effected as a result of the 9/11 attacks?

(Other meaning none arabs)

2) Are immigrants looked at differently due to incidents like Fort Hood?

3) Have these effects been positive/negative/none with respect to other cultures that simply appear simular to arabs?

(appearance of: Olive skin, dark eyes, dark hair)


Feel free to say whatever you want, be as offensive as you want to be within the rules.

People that get offended easily may not want to read.

Lets debate

[FranciscoG]

Do you think immigrants, or those that look like immigrants, in America are faced with sanctions or discriminated againts as a result of the actions taken by Al Qaeda?

[Mooseman33]

immigrants in america have just as many, if not more rights then the white man.

the white man is left paying for something that happened hundreds of years ago, which is complete bullshit.

muslims and middle easterners im sure get looked at funny/mean from time to time in different places..
but its the same everywhere, we as americans catch a ton of shit in other countries.
what goes around comes around....

[FranciscoG]

immigrants in america have just as many, if not more rights then the white man.
Are you saying that immigrants get to vote, work in places that hire US citizen only, over all have the same rights as ¨the white man¨ or exactly what are you saying?
the white man is left paying for something that happened hundreds of years ago, which is complete bullshit.

Explain how this applies to minorities that resemble arabs?

muslims and middle easterners im sure get looked at funny/mean from time to time in different places..
but its the same everywhere, we as americans catch a ton of shit in other countries.
what goes around comes around....

Explain how Americans catch shit and justify how ¨what goes around comes around¨

1) Do you believe other minority groups are effected as a result of the 9/11 attacks (minority being immigrants that resemble arabs)?


2) Are immigrants looked at differently due to incidents like Fort Hood?
Even though the shooter is a US citizen and not an immigrant.

[Mooseman33]

in some discrits, immigrants vote. see San Fran, home of the weirdos.

are u saying illegal immigrants? if thats the case then none of them should be allowed anything in our country, not a damm thing..

arabs should get looked at differently. hell, every attack against the U.S in the last 6 plus years was made by an arab or someone who really closely resembled them.

u are not stupid, u know how the world treats americans. we are not to well liked right now.

[FranciscoG]

Not talking about illegals.

I do not know of any districts were immigrants get voting rights. I know it is again federal law for none US citizens to vote in federal elections.

15 of the 19, 9/11 terrorists were Saudi? All 15 got expedited visas with little or no questions because US government gives that right to persons of Saudi Arabia. Without these 15 9/11 would not have happened. Post 9/11 immigration laws changed with respect to other immigrants besides the Saudis. The laws became more dicriminatory.

In latin america Americans are not look down upon. I do know in France, americans are looked as almost an animal class. But I do not know of other counties, even france, that restrick americans. I believe even Iran issues visas to americans. You can fly to Cuba with an american passport without issues. So I really don´t see your point.

Fort Hood was carried out by an american not some immigrant. You can not be an immigrant and attend OCS as you know. I bet you anything I look on this board and find anti-immigrant post as a result of fort hood.

[Mooseman33]

ft. hood was the result of some scum bag muslim, carrying out his jihad on us.

just cause a visa gets issued does not mean it is a friendly place.
go to africa, nigeria, americans are looked at like a lottery ticket. they have no issue grabbing u and charging ransom. very unsafe to americans.
there are a ton of others, i know them too personally as i worked at some.

the french treat everyone like shit, arrogant people..

are u saying that people in america are wrong for looking at arab immigrants in a different light now considering all the damage done to the innocent people here?

[FranciscoG]

are u saying that people in america are wrong for looking at arab immigrants in a different light now considering all the damage done to the innocent people here?

Nope.

1) lets say a given country is attacked by a group of people form another country, let me politically incorrect, if it aint for the fvcken saudis there wouldnt have been al qaeda, 9/11, USS Cole, Oh ________ name many more jihadist murderer in the name of Suni/woooohaoooobi (yeah I am miss spelling it) fvck nuts.

2) Discriminating again latin men (or for that matter other men not arab but look arab) I am saying is wrong.

3) Got a problem with the saudis right, no argument there, fix that problem... Not by what has happened. So what I am saying happened. Over-all immigration laws were rewritten and none that effected, you guessed it, the Saudis.

Oh and just one question? On the views you hold do you think you are in the minority or majority with respect to your views?



As for visas getting issues to saudis that wasnt my point. In 2001 if a mexican, brazilian, ________ latin male wanted a visa he would have had to wait and go through a process; The saudis did not have the same process...

[PT]

i think so. everytime a plane is hijacked or a suicide bomb goes off its always muslims doing it. im not prejiduce but i can see how some people look at them differently if on a plane with them. i personally have nothing against arabs and consider them in the same catergory as i consider every race. were all human no matter were your from so what the fuk is the difference what color your skin is. now those radical muslim extremists, i freaking hate them all

[FranciscoG]

Moose like many other conservatives says ¨liberalism is a disease¨

I don´t agree. Extermism is a disease.

I did not want to hijsck the other thread. I did send you a pm (PT)

Do I think the whole state of Texas is filled with people that look down on latin men? No.

Do I think the US as a result of 9/11 inacted laws that effected latin men? Yes. Do I think the US solved the Saudi issue? NOOOOOpe.

Do I think that every latin male should have his picture taken and fingerprinted as he enters the country as a result of 9/11. Nope.

Do I think the USA as a whole treats latin males different post 9/11? Yes. Again on this very board I bet anything there are posts that are anti-immigrant post the last incident Fort Hood. Carried out by a US citizen.

[Flagg]

People seem to forget that terrorist acts by other groups/militia are still being carried out in the world today, only thats not sexy enough for the Media unless its a Muslim doing something to the West.

Yep there is a massive uprising since 9/11, but invading Iraq and Afghanistan didn't help either.

Who the Hell wants to hear about whats going on in Brazil or Nepal when you can be spooked by what's happening in London or Berlin or New York?

Yes it is a massive problem but it's perpetuated by us. You know, when oil runs out in the Middle East and the Saudis become skint, or when Jerusalem is finally wiped off the map, does anyone think the West will give a shit about the Middle East or Muslims afterwards?

[FranciscoG]

As a result of the whole. Immigration laws and sociological views have changed.

In the USA these changes as a whole have effected other groups besides the arab/muslims that perpetraided modern influx of terrorism.

Let me more politically incorrect. Do I think every single man, woman, and child in the USA is racist? Nope, but I do believe there are pleaaaaaaaanty people that are. I do believe there is discrimantion. I do believe there is ¨anti_ that guy looks like an arab¨ attitude.

I do not like it. I do not agree with it. Regardless of white or latin or whatever I don´t look at others as second class. If you are white and american you are just as american as latin and american to me.

[Mooseman33]

there is nothing wrong with americans being gunshy around arab looking people. its not like they will fight fare, they fvking blow shit up..
i understand about being discriminated on, but looking, paying attention is not discrimination, it would be considered smart in todays times.

they know what happened, if they dont understand then i dont know what to tell u. im sure there not happy as they are innocent victims also, their lifes changed as well, but if they get mad cause they get looks, fvk em they can leave..

theres always mexico....lol just kidding pharm

[Kratos]

Yes it is a massive problem but it's perpetuated by us. You know, when oil runs out in the Middle East and the Saudis become skint, or when Jerusalem is finally wiped off the map, does anyone think the West will give a shit about the Middle East or Muslims afterwards?

Yes, I do think the West will still have conflict with the muslim world until they overtake the west. At that point the earth will be an overpopulated shit hole and I'll be glad to be dead.

[Kratos]

this is not news.
but no, I don't think spanish speaking people are typically looked at as scape goats for 911 or mystaken for arabs too often.

[FranciscoG]

*to Moose*

To me you represent the silent majority.

And, Moose its not about the looks. Its about society as a whole, the guy that looks like an arab may not get the promotion, a fair shake in divorse courts, and many other issues. You want examples of shit you aint going o get a fair shake at, just ask.


I respected your posts because they are what I see as the majority opinion, and its not about agreeing or disagreeing its reality. Thus we hold these truths to be self-evident, right?

People that say well, ¨we dont discriminate in the US¨ and ¨its wrong to say blaw blaw blaw¨ have represented the minority and will do so.

And yeap you are pretty much right. Look like an arab don´t want to be discriminated against... Hey pack your shit up and leave.

Want to go have a good time and spend some cash on yourself, look else where.

The solution is simple. The explanation is as clear as day for me.

PT, now you can see why I feel as I feel.

[FranciscoG]

this is not news.
but no, I don't think spanish speaking people are typically looked at as scape goats for 911 or mystaken for arabs too often.

9/11 was caused by Saudi nationals, don´t think there is going to be any arguments there.

The laws enacted post 9/11 to ¨serve and protect¨ did not address Saudi nationals. The little visa with little to to no questions for Saudis, still there. Me getting strip searched at the airport on the way to see my sister the fall out (true story)...


Again to me its pretty simple.

[Kratos]

I've been stip searched at the airport, and I'm white dude. True story. And I'm not just saying that to shut you up. It's happend more then once. I flew a lot for my job and have been through the ringer at airports.

It sucks but whatever. The only time the extra security measures since 9/11 bothered me is when my youngest brother was extensivly searched...he has mental problems and can't deal with that shit.

[Kratos]

but if you grow a long un-kept beard down to your chest and wrap a towel around your head and wear a tunic...yeah, I could see that not working in your favor

[FranciscoG]

Over-all if I was going to say ¨the USA is a minority (persons that look arab but are not) friendly country¨ I would be going against my life´s experiences.

Its not the airpot alone, its not the looks alone, it not the fact that I speak english perfectly but people ask where I am from (born in Texas), Its not the the legal system has an enormious raciat disparity, Its the immigrations laws the effected other nationals then Saudi´s, Its not the well they (being arabs) attacked us and so well its just the way it is, its not the promotions that are passed by, its the individuals that speak out of ignorance, its not anyone of those factors, Its not the majority opinion, its not the second class citizenship, and no its not cause some latin male is going to look extra terroirst cause he grew out his facial hair... It is the totality of the circumstances.


I am sure again people will, ¨well not everyone has views like Moose¨.... But really in totality I disagree, Moose from what I seen represents the majority.

[Mooseman33]

ignorance is different for all, we all have different beliefs.

your comments can be taken that way.
My comments can be taken that way.

[FranciscoG]

Opinions are opinions, facts are facts.


When I say the majority of the American people agree with you, that an opinion. When I say I don´t miss Texas cause frankly I believe again most Americans think the racial profilling is just fine is also an opinion.

One can even say to say that a majority of any given nation is ___________ is a racist point of view.

But most Americans, do agree with you, are just fine discriminating against other based on appearance.

Lets look at the facts:



Interestingly, however, even more Americans (71%) believe such profiling is necessary in today’s environment. Eighteen percent (18%) disagree and see profiling as an unnecessary violation of civil rights


59% of adults say factors such as race, ethnicity and overall appearance
Sixty-two percent (62%) of whites and 52% of those of other races say profiling should be used at airports



http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...line_security/

And then there is:

Its a very easy YES or NO question.

99.9% of all Terrorists look alike. They are middle eastern young men who are ALL Muslims.

From: http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...sage965001/pg1


So again, am I racist when I say, A great majority of americans think its just fine to profile based on appearance?

[Mooseman33]

nothing wrong with profiling
if it keeps us safe, if it does not then there is no need for.

we are at times of national security, and to accomplish that the aclu needs to take a back seat.

profiling does not make someone a racist.

[Kratos]

what are you getting at with this thread
what do you want to change?

[Dont wanna be old]

1) Do you believe other minority groups are effected as a result of the 9/11 attacks?

(Other meaning none arabs)

2) Are immigrants looked at differently due to incidents like Fort Hood?

3) Have these effects been positive/negative/none with respect to other cultures that simply appear simular to arabs?

(appearance of: Olive skin, dark eyes, dark hair)


Feel free to say whatever you want, be as offensive as you want to be within the rules.

People that get offended easily may not want to read.

Lets debate

1. Currently in Detroit metro area the big news is investigation of a Muslim cleric killed last year . He was not Arabic . Autopsy showed he was shot in the back . The news reported he had opened fire on them and claimed to never be taken alive. I remember distinctively . Later news crew filming masc where approached by followers and pushed around . I believe any practitioners of the Muslim faith are being watched .

2.3. I don't see anyone confused with being Arabic .
I did make a delivery to a gas station last summer . A car with some guys from California came in to buy a soda . The gentleman said gracias to the cashier ( Arabic guy ) . OMG this guy was so pissed . I was chuckling under my breath . I asked him what's up ? He said the guy insulted him by thanking him in Spanish as if he was a Mexican . I had to bite my lip to keep from busting out laughing .

[FranciscoG]

what are you getting at with this thread
what do you want to change?

I don´t want to change anything.
I just do not understand it when people express the American people do not believe in profiling, The great majority do. Further when people state that racisim does not exist with respect to appearance, I don´t understand that either.

[FranciscoG]

nothing wrong with profiling
if it keeps us safe, if it does not then there is no need for.

we are at times of national security, and to accomplish that the aclu needs to take a back seat.

profiling does not make someone a racist.

Is profiling based on racial appearance not racist?
What is your definition of racisim?

[FranciscoG]

1. Currently in Detroit metro area the big news is investigation of a Muslim cleric killed last year . He was not Arabic . Autopsy showed he was shot in the back . The news reported he had opened fire on them and claimed to never be taken alive. I remember distinctively . Later news crew filming masc where approached by followers and pushed around . I believe any practitioners of the Muslim faith are being watched .

2.3. I don't see anyone confused with being Arabic .
I did make a delivery to a gas station last summer . A car with some guys from California came in to buy a soda . The gentleman said gracias to the cashier ( Arabic guy ) . OMG this guy was so pissed . I was chuckling under my breath . I asked him what's up ? He said the guy insulted him by thanking him in Spanish as if he was a Mexican . I had to bite my lip to keep from busting out laughing .

I agree the issue is more religion than race here. A persian jew is not an arab muslim. An afgan Hazara Shia is not a Saudi Sunni muslim.

The problem is people don´t wear a Star of David sleave cover (referencing the modern eara´s only religious identification in germany WWII) if they did wear something like that this conversation would not be happening...

So what does one have to result to, other appearance. Which as seen less than 2 months ago is just as effective (the nigerian bomber) as looking at the only common link radical sunni/wooohaaaabi islam.


What you see in that gas station is the norm. There are pleanty of latin people I can´t tell national origion of.

[Mooseman33]

Is profiling based on racial appearance not racist?
What is your definition of racisim?

absolutely not.
Profiling is not discriminating. profiling is not always bad.
hell listen to the news, dont watch it but listen one night and when they talk about local crimes, as they call the crime out, u can guess the race of the person. u will be right 95% of the time.

it is to easy for any minority in our country to cry racisim.

if there is truth behind it, well you know how it goes, where there is smoke, there is fire.

u are beating a dead horse here my friend, so i ask you, seeing how u are the one with the issue, what is racism to u?

[Kratos]

I don´t want to change anything.
I just do not understand it when people express the American people do not believe in profiling, The great majority do. Further when people state that racisim does not exist with respect to appearance, I don´t understand that either.

It's about resources, not racism. They can only stop x number of people. Do you want them to waste their time searching little old ladies. I think you'll find it has less to do with race and more to do with appearance of economic status. For example a brown man with a clean shave in a suit holding a brief case vs a white man that looks like the uni-bomber, the white dude will get searched.

profiling is only racist if race is the only reason for the profile

[FranciscoG]

To me racism is profiling based on appearance.

I do listen and well more read the news.
I really do not want to address u can guess the race of the person. u will be right 95% of the time.

I am not getting into the black and white issue, since its OT.

You see I think when one is subjected to being profiled based on appearance one will look at it is a different light than when one is doing the profiling.

Here is a good example. Lets look at the US Department of Justice:

http://bjs.ojp.usdoj.gov/

search for profile of child molesters.


Demographic characteristics of child molesters :

White : 77,6



So you would be fine with profiling whites right? I mean the majority of sick fvck that fck kids are whites. White people own that stat if there was such a thing as owning a child molester´s stats. if a kid gets raped it more than often by a white.

So in order to protect kids, You would be fine with all white people being screened and search 1 mile outside of any school zone, if it protected kids in an area were a recent child molestation had taken place.

Hell lets go deeper. Lets say if a child is molested then all white people should have thier pictures taken and fingerprinted and give DNA is that area, why not if a child is molested.


http://www.topix.com/forum/afam/TU8SR7K33U7OMVEDL

And LOL, here is a Topix page slamming white people that molest kids and read through the comments. You see its not racism it just protecting kids from the ethnic group that more than likly rapes kids, right? I mean you wouldn´t have a problem giving some civil rights right? You fit the profile, hell that aint racist by profiling according to your last post right?


Lets assume you are actually Russian and not an american, so you only belong to the stats by appearance.

[Mooseman33]

100% i would have no problem with it.

but u are beating a dead horse, u say u dont want to get into the white and black thing then type half a page about "whites"

common sense has to be applied.

[Kratos]

Dumb ass, what's the percentage of white people in this country vs the number of child molestors.
In Japan, most child molesters are Japanese. In Nigeria, most child molesters are black. In Australia, most child molesters are white. But of course all the dumb anti-white racists will only use stats from majority white countries to "prove" that whites have the most child molesters.

[FranciscoG]

Dumb ass, what's the percentage of white people in this country vs the number of child molestors.
In Japan, most child molesters are Japanese. In Nigeria, most child molesters are black. In Australia, most child molesters are white. But of course all the dumb anti-white racists will only use stats from majority white countries to "prove" that whites have the most child molesters.

You did not read Moose´s comment about who commits all the crime or as he put is 95% or something.

[Kratos]

Racism Rears Its Ugly Head in Mexico
August 03, 2005|By Cinnamon StillwellMexico's President Vicente Fox is having a tough year.

During the much-publicized Minuteman Project in Arizona last March Fox's arrogant comments and dismissive attitude didn't win him too many fans north of the border. Then in May while making yet another speech about how America couldn't function without illegal immigrants from Mexico Fox managed to insult African Americans in the process. He claimed that illegals do the work that "not even black people want to do" implying that African Americans make up the lowest rungs of society.
About a month later came the unveiling of Mexico's latest series of postage stamps featuring none other than a black character like something out of a minstrel show. Needless to say Fox found himself on the defensive yet again -- with good reason.

It turns out that racism in Mexico both against blacks and dark-skinned indigenous Indians has a long history. Mexico's colonial past has left its mark on modern-day society. Prejudice toward "pureblood" Indians from those who are "mixed-blood" (Spanish and Indian) is rife. Almost uniformly people who are darker-skinned and of Indian descent make up the peasantry and working classes while lighter-skinned Spanish-descent Mexicans are in the ruling elite. Fox himself comes from that background as his appearance makes evident.

This inequality may explain in part why the majority of immigrants coming into the United States fall into the darker-skinned category. Beyond the failure of the Mexican government to sustain a decent economy darker-skinned Mexicans have a difficult time getting work because of job discrimination. According to the Web site IndigenousPeople.net "sixty percent of Indians over 12 years of age are already unemployed and of those who work most earn less than the minimum wage of about $2.50 a day." The same story notes that Mexico City's top restaurants don't allow patrons to bring along Indian domestic workers for fear of tarnishing their business image.

'Color Continuum'

Mexico's racial dynamics are perhaps best summed up by Steve Sailer in his article "Where Did Mexico's Blacks Go?" He writes that "[w]hat Mexico does have instead of a color line is a 'color continuum.' There are no sharp racial divides yet the rule for social prestige remains 'the whiter the better.'"
http://articles.sfgate.com/2005-08-0...in-mexico-city

[Kratos]

what would you say my odds would be of getting pulled over if I were black and driving a caddy with 24 inch rims in mexico city?

[FranciscoG]

100% i would have no problem with it.

but u are beating a dead horse, u say u dont want to get into the white and black thing then type half a page about "whites"

common sense has to be applied.

1)I used white and at the end added the person was not a white American but a Russian national, which looks like a white american but are not accounted into the stats.

2) So profiling is not racist according to you, okay. Taking away one´s civil right and making people of just once race subject to sanctions is fine, according to you.

So what is racism?

[Kratos]

As a Mexican, if you want to find racism in America, you'll find it. If you want to find success, prosperity and equality in America, you will find it.

America is what you make it.

If you want to have a Mexican pity party, that's fine. There is plenty of oppertunity for people with a good attitude.

Is there racism in America...yes. Does it have to impact your quality of life...no.

Have I every confused a Mexican with an Arab...no.

Maybe living in Texas has left you with a false impression of America.

[FranciscoG]

what would you say my odds would be of getting pulled over if I were black and driving a caddy with 24 inch rims in mexico city?

Maybe you are not following what I am expressing.

I don´t think people should be subjected to profiling based on appearance regarless of an airport, a school, or any other factors even in other nations.

Post a link and also post the stats about that article, cause I just never seen that as an issue here. But post the stats that back the article up.

[FranciscoG]

As a Mexican, if you want to find racism in America, you'll find it. If you want to find success, prosperity and equality in America, you will find it.

America is what you make it.

If you want to have a Mexican pity party, that's fine. There is plenty of oppertunity for people with a good attitude.

Is there racism in America...yes. Does it have to impact your quality of life...no.

Have I every confused a Mexican with an Arab...no.

Maybe living in Texas has left you with a false impression of America.

You are either not reading all my posts or i don´t know just posting for some other reason.

I am not Mexican; I am an American. I am actually a mixture of Brazilian and argentinian ethinically.

The topic is ¨Are minorities effected as a result of 9/11¨

If you want to go start another topic go on with your bad self. Stop highjacking this one.