Are 40+ year olds different?

[woodiechopper]

Like to get some advice from folks who have been lifting for years and are getting on in years.

Are there differences in how older people react to gear? It seems like a lot of the quantities mentioned in the main forum are either going to make you exhausted or not feel well.

Also, can you really lift as heavy when you're older? I keep on injuring myself with Olympic lifts.

What AS programs do people like for good fitness, wellbeing and gradual muscle development?

[bluethunder]

Being middle age is more diffucult to get & maintain muscle as well as increaseing fat. I lift slightly less weight now then I did say 5 yrs ago. Your body just gets weaker IMO and recovery can be a bit slower too. I am one who does not care how much I lift to show off in the gym but an more interested in feeling the burn & muscle with the mind/muscle connection. However having said all that I still can train much more than the average Joe Blow so I think it also depends on how many years you been training. Someone who is 40+ stepping into a gym for his first time or been working out not consistantly will find it very hard to gain good mass but it can be done.. Why do olympic style lifts and continue hurting yourself? Make no sense to me, leave your ego at the front door. As far as gear I am not the most experienced as I have been completly natural until this past year and evan then mildly. If your looking for gradual muscle gains then rHGH may be good as long as some diet is there of course. Some find your need to stack with other gear like test to fully compliment the hyperplasia HGH does. Currently I am on rHGH and just got a Rx for some test for HRT. But the doses are low.

[woodiechopper]

good advice! I probably need more flexibility before doing some of the fancier lifts. On the AS, I've tried some stuff in the past but never seem to get the quantities right.

Do you guys stay on year round like HRT? Or cycle on and off? What dosages?

[seanw]

good advice! I probably need more flexibility before doing some of the fancier lifts. On the AS, I've tried some stuff in the past but never seem to get the quantities right.

Do you guys stay on year round like HRT? Or cycle on and off? What dosages?

I am 49 and been lifting since I was 18, my weights have dropped of a small amount over the years, but since I decided to try AS I am lifting heavier than I have ever lifted. I started with 400mg of Test C and 300mg of deca once a week for 10 weeks. I put on about 10lbs and lost about 4% body fat. The amazing thing is, everybody noticed so I was stoked. I believe you should have a break between cycles, I am in the middle of PCT at the moment and I have found the enthusiasm waining and I think this is the psychological addition you get from growing so fast and now it stops until the next cycle, but I have set a goal to try and add another 8lbs before I start my next cycle.

[Juggernaut]

Interesting SeanW, how long ago did you do your cycle?

I picked back up working out about 4 years ago, I was 37-38..somewhere in there. Anycase I couldn't lift as much as I could when I was much younger but not that bad either. I've found that the heavier the weight the more I MUST stick to proper form throughout each and every lift. If I get the lest bit sloppy I can, and do sometimes, injure myself and it does take a good bit of time to recover. Keep in mind I've never done a cycle, wanted to get in a better condition before doing one...dropping weight and getting used to sticking to a diet and routine. At the current time I'm very close to jumping on........with that said, I can go toe to toe with my younger workout partner and from watching others in the gym and their routines mine is much harder, imho. The big difference for me is, due to my age and the longer recovery time, when I feel even the slightest bit of pain (I'm talking about throwing a back out or seriously pulling a muscle) I stop that instant. Pushing myself to the point of injury is serious counter productivity....better to suffer the loss of ego as too the loss of time out of the gym.

We do have to face the facts that we are getting old......but that doesn't mean we have to feel or look bad doing it. So what if I can't squat 600 lbs like could so long ago......but I can squat 415 for 10 reps and those 10 reps are spot on with proper form slow and controlled........I see a lot of bros younger and heavier than me that can't even do that.

With that said I am very much interested in seeing if the amount of weight lifted increases with the addition of AAS as well as to if recovery time increases.

[seanw]

Hey Juggernaut, I finished my first cycle just three weeks ago and there is no doubt that strength does increase but in my case recovery times actually decreased. I have read lots of threads from guys who are my age or even older who have gotten fantastic results from the moderate doses that I was taking. My goal was to put on some lean muscle and lose some BF, as that is something that I have really struggled with over the years although the diet was probably a major contributor to that as well, if you dont eat a lot, it doesnt matter how much AS you pump into yourself, you wont grow. I can now see after my first cycle what I can do with this stuff and I am really looking forward to my second cycle, given what I have learned from the first. I think you have to be carefull at out age to monitor things like BP, mine went up a bit but not to dangerous levels, but its still something that should be watched closely.

[Pale Horse]

I started lifting when I was 15 , will be 39 in a month. Old injuries are more nagging than before. I personally ran a monster cycle last time and ran my max bench to 450 an all time high for me. But I also ended up at some point with a umbilical hernia. Since then I no longer have a desire to be huge and herculean. I want to be ,sounds kinda funny (like the bowflex dude in the commercials) lean and riped and well maintained fighting off age. I'm on hrt and my natty was 190 at age 37 so this was and is a godsend. I'm going lighter w/more reps as thunder said, screw the ego crap. I have to finally admit it, I'm not as young as I used to be.

[Juggernaut]

Thanks for the input Seanw. I keep an eye on my BP a good bit now and I see my doc every six months, provided I'm not injured or suffering some other aliment. I guess for my first cycle I'm looking more for increase strength and fat loss more than growth. With your information concerning recovery I might have to take a good look at what my routine while on will be, adjusting as I discover what does and doesn't work for myself. My first looks very similar to your except I've Test E as oppossed to C but the Deca I'll also run....I'm very interested in the joint lubrication benifits most say this compound adds. That is something I've really noticed those of us up in the years suffer from more so than muscle pulls and strains. I wouldn't mind seeing some growth but not the most important too me this go round.....more or less my first cycle is a tester as to how my body will react to the compounds, what reactions my body has if any and so forth.

[Pale Horse]

I have run just about everything except deca and a-bombs. Winny kicks my ass within days I feel like I have arthritus. I stick w/test prop/fina mostly. Never come off I go down to normal levels but on hrt IMO it doesn't matter. I've got a vasectomy and a circus full of kids, I'm done.

[Juggernaut]

I started lifting when I was 15 , will be 39 in a month. Old injuries are more nagging than before. I personally ran a monster cycle last time and ran my max bench to 450 an all time high for me. But I also ended up at some point with a umbilical hernia. Since then I no longer have a desire to be huge and herculean. I want to be ,sounds kinda funny (like the bowflex dude in the commercials) lean and riped and well maintained fighting off age. I'm on hrt and my natty was 190 at age 37 so this was and is a godsend. I'm going lighter w/more reps as thunder said, screw the ego crap. I have to finally admit it, I'm not as young as I used to be.

39 and you had a 450 bench? Bro that is an awwsome lift! My bench sucks....just not my fortay I guess. Shame the hernia had to come along. I like you have forgone the need to lift super heavy. I don't want to look like Coleman but maybe a little thicker than the bowflex look. I'm sure each of us on this thread right now probably looks better than half the men younger than we are. People could just being super nice but when I tell them my age they all say there is no way I'm that old. I guess my long rage goal is to be of such good health that once retirement age arrives I can enjoy a more active lifestyle. I don't want to look and feel like crap at the age of 65. I want to blow my kids inheritance skydiving, suba and white water rafting....not down at the lodge comapiring liver spots with the other members.

[Pale Horse]

Agreed Juggy, man it's a biatch gettin older. I was freakin when I put that much up. I ran an experimental cycle BDTR style and I grew like the hulk. I'm not a BBer I'm someone who works out. My bb buddies were making comments, it was nice to hear them,then age gave me a wakeup call ie:hernia. I was lookin like a BBer guys at the gym had to know I was juicing who gives a bleep!

[Juggernaut]

I have run just about everything except deca and a-bombs. Winny kicks my ass within days I feel like I have arthritus. I stick w/test prop/fina mostly. Never come off I go down to normal levels but on hrt IMO it doesn't matter. I've got a vasectomy and a circus full of kids, I'm done.

I've some a-bombs....enough for four weeks. Picked them up just to see what will happen. Like you my kid bearing days are loooooooong over with. I picked up a good amount of prop, deca and test so I could do three or four cycles so I'll experiment to see what I like and dislike. I'm also hitting my doc up for full blood work including test ranges........I know he knows nothing about gear so I'm sure if I point out that my levels are low I can get him to put me on HRT. If I think he'll go along with it I ask for injections as opposed to patches and creams.

[seanw]

Thanks for the input Seanw. I keep an eye on my BP a good bit now and I see my doc every six months, provided I'm not injured or suffering some other aliment. I guess for my first cycle I'm looking more for increase strength and fat loss more than growth. With your information concerning recovery I might have to take a good look at what my routine while on will be, adjusting as I discover what does and doesn't work for myself. My first looks very similar to your except I've Test E as oppossed to C but the Deca I'll also run....I'm very interested in the joint lubrication benifits most say this compound adds. That is something I've really noticed those of us up in the years suffer from more so than muscle pulls and strains. I wouldn't mind seeing some growth but not the most important too me this go round.....more or less my first cycle is a tester as to how my body will react to the compounds, what reactions my body has if any and so forth.

Juggernaut you are going to get growth whether you like it or not Deca does work on the joints, I noticed my knees didnt creek anymore when I was doing leg presses. I am not not trying to turn into man mountain either. I am on 170lb right now and 13% BF and I look better than just about every guy I look at. I want to get to 180. I also want to maintain the bf to 11% if I can get there, thats a challenge not a requirement.

[Pale Horse]

That's what I had to do was educate my own doc, it is incredible. I had to go to an a different doc my regular one wouldn't even consider it. Even then he (the new doc) ran 2 blood tests and I had to practically beg him, he gave me the shot (I do at home) and gel for in between shots.

[Juggernaut]

Sean, bro my knees and ankles crack so bad it sounds like I'm making popcorn. hahahaha Seriouly I'm so looking forward to that benifit. Size would be nice but I'm sitting at 240 now but my BF is kind of high as well.

That's what I'm talking about the 1victor.....my doc is cool and he knows I'm big into the whole health thing so I'm sure he'll go along with my suggestions.

[seanw]

Sean, bro my knees and ankles crack so bad it sounds like I'm making popcorn. hahahaha Seriouly I'm so looking forward to that benifit. Size would be nice but I'm sitting at 240 now but my BF is kind of high as well.

That's what I'm talking about the 1victor.....my doc is cool and he knows I'm big into the whole health thing so I'm sure he'll go along with my suggestions.

Jesus 240 !!! I can only dream The bf should drop when you are on the cycle, especially if you do cardio, I do weights Mon, Tues, Thurs and Friday. The other days are cardio only and thats an hour on the treadmill at 70% of my target heart rate, on an empty stomach first thing in the morning. If you eat right as well, the fat will fall off you !!!

[Pale Horse]

good to know I was @ 255-260 last feb and I'm at 215-220 now and was at my biggest was barely pushing into 40" waist now a strong 36 and some 34" (depends on the pants)

That's why it was so easy for me to get big I had the size and the lifting experience, the test just cranked everything up. Lugging around 250 lbs can make you stronger than you think.

[Juggernaut]

I just started back on my diet but my routine is cardio for 45 minutes in the AM followed by 30-45 minutes of weight training, then another cardio session for 30 minutes in the afternoon....monday thru Friday. I'll shed a good amount of fat with this routine......three years ago I was a plump 268 and dropped all the way dowm to 214 but for the strangest reasons my body feels better at a heavier weight so it's slowly creaped up....but not in the gut like it was before....generally when I tell people how much I weigh they don't believe me. They're used to seeing someone at 250 pounds as being a fatty I guess. You guys have me all excited again about getting on ccyle ASAP.

Vic, that's what I'm hoping will help me out...the fact that I carry all this weight, once it starts to drop I look forward to doing something I've never been able to do....a pull-up. I swear it has taken me forever to get to the point where I can do a couple full ones.....for months all i've done was the negative portion....the up side is for the first time in my life I have lats!

[Pale Horse]

It's funny that you say that cause I was thinkin about gettin on one next week. We will have all of the holiday fitness buffs there but who cares. After New Years is the worst.

[Juggernaut]

It's funny that you say that cause I was thinkin about gettin on one next week. We will have all of the holiday fitness buffs there but who cares. After New Years is the worst.

Well you know as well as we all do that they will drop like flies three weeks afterwards. Do you guys do anything different than normal during cycles, concerning lifting routines and such?

[Pale Horse]

yes. My lifts are lighter and my diet is cleaner. I should really clean up my diet year round. Plus recovery is a little longer.

[seanw]

I go to a single body part per day. So Chest and Biceps on Monday, Back and TricepsTuesday, Wednesday cardio and abs, Thursday Soulders, Friday Legs, Sat and Sun cardio only. I lift a lot more intensly, if you have a workout partner it will make a HUGE difference, I am screaming when I walk out of there and feel like I have been pumped up like a balloon, God I love the pump AS gives you. I eat clean all the time, you have to get at least 1.5g of protein per lb body weight a day as well as at least 3000 calories, thats for growing so I guess you could back off the calories but you definitly need the protein. There are plenty of diets in the Diet Forum that could help as well. I cant believe I am giving advice to someone with as many post counts as you, you must know all this sh!t anyway. Good luck mate !!!

[Juggernaut]

I go to a single body part per day. So Chest and Biceps on Monday, Back and TricepsTuesday, Wednesday cardio and abs, Thursday Soulders, Friday Legs, Sat and Sun cardio only. I lift a lot more intensly, if you have a workout partner it will make a HUGE difference, I am screaming when I walk out of there and feel like I have been pumped up like a balloon, God I love the pump AS gives you. I eat clean all the time, you have to get at least 1.5g of protein per lb body weight a day as well as at least 3000 calories, thats for growing so I guess you could back off the calories but you definitly need the protein. There are plenty of diets in the Diet Forum that could help as well. I cant believe I am giving advice to someone with as many post counts as you, you must know all this sh!t anyway. Good luck mate !!!

You can't go by my post counts....I clown around in the lounge a lot. I know a good bit but I'm always on the lookout for new and more current information. And judging from my own experiance and what you just stated it seems we both have a good idea as too what we are doing.

[darmadoc]

As a 47 year old who has done 2 cycles of test and deca , the only down side is that recovery is a b_tch! The old gonads are already not firing on all eight cylinders, and after a long period of suppression, it can take a very long time to recover, even with proper PCT.

[seanw]

As a 47 year old who has done 2 cycles of test and deca, the only down side is that recovery is a b_tch! The old gonads are already not firing on all eight cylinders, and after a long period of suppression, it can take a very long time to recover, even with proper PCT.

Well thats not good news, I am two weeks into PCT after my first cycle. I have no problems with my dick at this stage, apart from the fact that I just spent three days in Manilla and my dick is about to drop off from over use !!!

What symptoms have you had, what did u do for PCT ?

[pwrlift220]

I started lifting in my early 20's and powerlifting around the same and stayed drug free till the last year. I am 42 now and have made some great gains with minimum supplement gear. Did two cycles and had no problems.

[Juggernaut]

I started lifting in my early 20's and powerlifting around the same and stayed drug free till the last year. I am 42 now and have made some great gains with minimum supplement gear. Did two cycles and had no problems.

Good stuff.....how was recovery time for you and did your lifts increase? Was your cycle to build mass or to help cut down on the fat?

[woodiechopper]

I was thinking about moving to shorter cycles (6 week) and making them more continuous.

Wks 1-4 dbol @50mg ed
Wks 1-6 tren en 150mg e3d
Wks 1-6 test cyp 400mg ew
Wks 5-6 prop/masteron 100mg ed

I want to add 5-10lbs but avoid any significant side effects and also not hurt aerobic performance too much. Like another bro on this thread, I'd prefer lean, functional strength rather than huge bulk (who wants to buy all new suits anyway!?).

[darmadoc]

I did a 10 wwek cycle of test-e 500/wk and deca 400/wk. I did PCT with clomid 300 day 1; then 100/d for a week then 50/d for 2 weeks. I also took clomid 20/d starting at the end of the cycle and going through the PCT. My dick is still not working, 2 weeks later. Complicating all this is that I am going through a somewhat nasty divorce. This may be part of the problem, however. I got my test level checked yesterday, and will have the result Monday. I'll post it when I get it.

[Pale Horse]

darma a nasty divorce will cause supermans dick to go limp, the stress is unbelievable. I'd count that as THE mitigating factor, the boys WILL be back in town soon!

[seanw]

I did a 10 wwek cycle of test-e 500/wk and deca 400/wk. I did PCT with clomid 300 day 1; then 100/d for a week then 50/d for 2 weeks. I also took clomid 20/d starting at the end of the cycle and going through the PCT. My dick is still not working, 2 weeks later. Complicating all this is that I am going through a somewhat nasty divorce. This may be part of the problem, however. I got my test level checked yesterday, and will have the result Monday. I'll post it when I get it.

Try doing some Tribulus or Tongkat Ali (four times Stronger) if you can get it. They are natural supplements that help restart the test production. If you have to get the dick back in action have a go at some Cialis, I dont normally have a problem but if you are looking to get it up and keep keep it up for a while this stuff is awsome. I have just come off almost the exact same cycle excpet I used Test C not Test E but they are almost the same anyway, I have had no probs with the boys. I reckon the stress is your problem, I went through that and I didnt even jerk off for a month let alone do the deed !!!

[woodiechopper]

you could also try some HCG if the testicles have shrunk. The cialis also works great. Two weeks is not that long so I wouldn't worry.

[darmadoc]

The problem is that even viagra and levitra didn't help. That's why I think (hope) it's a hormonal thing. I'll get the level back today.

[d.b]

Bro its in your head...a lot of desire is in your head...its not just a hormonal thing...

peace

db

[darmadoc]

It's not in my head. The level came back at 41! Normal is 200-600.

[Juggernaut]

Derma, have you spoken with your doc about the results? It could be you may be a candidate for HRT. I've a buddy who has a tumor (I'm not saying you have, just using him as an example) restricting his petuitery gland and has very low test levels...his doctor suggested he go on HRT and has been for a little over a year now....btw he's 45.

[d.b]

Your Test levels will be low for awhile bro...the older you are the longer it takes to come back even when you do your pct...thats why i dont believe in pct...Mine bounced back within a month but some can take up to 6 months to a year...

peace

db

[darmadoc]

My original point was that it takes longer to come back when you get to the over 40 age range. I will be starting HRT as I don't want to wait for months to get back into action. I would suggest that the over 40 crowd take this into consideration befor they cycle.

[Pale Horse]

PCT isn't neede for us HRT boys just go back on the normal hrt schedule. Can't get blood from a turnip (test from nads that don't work anyway) IMO.

[seanw]

PCT isn't neede for us HRT boys just go back on the normal hrt schedule. Can't get blood from a turnip (test from nads that don't work anyway) IMO.

Hey Victor what do you do about blocking Estrogen then ? Handbag and Bra shopping are not high on my list of favourite activities, especially for myself.