Tpye II Diabetic been trying to cut for over a year and have only gained weight

**dapper** · 07-05-2006, 06:48 PM

I am having a huge problem for over a year now. I am also a type II diabetic. I lost 4 lbs when I got out of the hospital last March (2005) to 192 since then I have gained 20lbs. My diet is in check believe me. I am for all purposes doing a timed carb diet. I only take in carbs from veggies before meal 4. Meal 4 is pre workout and i have oatmeal blended with protein and pretty much the same as a post workout meal. I have not done this since i started but no matter how many calories I eat or what my macros are I seem to keep gaining weight. My waist is still 41" like it was the day I started.

I started Armour thyroid and Androgel to my daily prescriptions a few months ago.

I am currently doing Max-OT.

My morning fasting number are 85-100 and 2 hours after I eat supper usually 80-95.

I take Glipizide twice a day.

When I talk about eating carbs I only eat complex carb except pre and post workout.

Other than that I am now so obsessed I can't do anything else. I eat nothing that is processed I mean nothing. I am eating around 2300 calories a day. I have eaten 1800, 2000, 2250, 2500, 2700, and 2900 calories and each and every time I have gained weight. I tried CKD, I have ate 150 carbs a day, 225 carbs a day, 275 carbs a day, I usually take in 220-240 grams of protein a day. Now with this new diet that I have been on for 3 weeks now I take in about 130 carbs a day 80 of which come pre and post workout. 225 grams of protein and the rest from fat 85-100grams. I also supplement with fish oil which I count in my diet and ALA 800mg a day and I credit it with me hardly having anymoe neuropathy pains at all.

I have been working with some that offered to help me. She can not understand why my measurement don't change and why it seems as if I am not losing any body fat at all, but we keep changing things up. She has me doing this timed carb thing now.

Is there anyone that may be able to shed some light on this for me?

I do understand that excess insulin pretty much breaks down any carb into a simple sugar and stores as fat, it also doesn't allow for proper break down of protein I think and doesn't allow the protein to get to your muscles or somthing like that.

I am at my wits end trying to figure this out. I just don't know what else to do. Doctors and nutritionist don't seem to be able to help.

**johnsomebody** · 07-06-2006, 12:10 AM

I really doubt anyone in this forum is knowledgeable or maybe I should say qualified to offer help with a serious medical condition like Type 2 diabetes, but maybe there's someone who's dealt with it.

All I can say is you make no mention of getting any kind of exercise at all. The best way to burn off fat, if that's what you're putting on, is cardio, as you probably know. And it doesn't have to be high impact, difficult stuff just anything that pulls up your pulse into the zone. Personally I don't believe dieting lowers fat at all in the end, only cardio reduces it because bodyfat is the preferred fuel in cardio. But maybe you already do that?

That's all I can offer. Good luck.

**dapper** · 07-06-2006, 07:04 AM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

I really doubt anyone in this forum is knowledgeable or maybe I should say qualified to offer help with a serious medical condition like Type 2 diabetes, but maybe there's someone who's dealt with it.

All I can say is you make no mention of getting any kind of exercise at all. The best way to burn off fat, if that's what you're putting on, is cardio, as you probably know. And it doesn't have to be high impact, difficult stuff just anything that pulls up your pulse into the zone. Personally I don't believe dieting lowers fat at all in the end, only cardio reduces it because bodyfat is the preferred fuel in cardio. But maybe you already do that?

That's all I can offer. Good luck.

I did mention I do Max-OT. I lift 5 days a week pretty much one body part a day. Mon is legs, Tuesday is Chest, Wednesday is back, Thursday is shoulders and ab, Fridays is bis and tri.

My heart doc told me she didn't want my HR above 75 and she knows I am lifting weights. I told her I was squatting 300lbs for reps. Yep I am 43 yo and that was a huge deal for me to hit the 300lb mark. I know I can get my HR up higher, but I did cardio religiously 5 days a week with no results, since then I have pretty much been told cardio is not for fat loss but best for heart health.

I gave up on it but I still do some. I try and get walks in on the weekend basically for the diabetes.

I am a single parent and my weekends are spent cutting the grass, doing laundry, cleaning house, grocery shopping, and cooking everything I can for the upcoming week to save me time thru the week.

**Lavinco** · 07-15-2006, 02:40 PM

Originally Posted by johnsomebody

I really doubt anyone in this forum is knowledgeable or maybe I should say qualified to offer help with a serious medical condition like Type 2 diabetes, but maybe there's someone who's dealt with it.

All I can say is you make no mention of getting any kind of exercise at all. The best way to burn off fat, if that's what you're putting on, is cardio, as you probably know. And it doesn't have to be high impact, difficult stuff just anything that pulls up your pulse into the zone. Personally I don't believe dieting lowers fat at all in the end, only cardio reduces it because bodyfat is the preferred fuel in cardio. But maybe you already do that?

That's all I can offer. Good luck.

That's a really ignorant thing to say.
There are other people on this forum with the same condition.

When I get time to go through the rest of what everyone said above, I will respond as I am Type II as well with recent success cutting.

For now, I gotta run.

**RedBaron** · 07-06-2006, 01:37 AM

I feel for your situation. That is one of the curses of some type II medications ... a REAL challenge to lose weight ... or even to hold your weight for that matter without it going up. Doctors and nutritionists can help you keep your BG levels in check and keep you healthy ... but losing weight is absolutely a bugger when taking the class of meds you are taking.

In your case, the problem with Glipizide is that it makes your pancreas secrete more insulin . The problem with insulin isn't ONLY with carbs. Insulin is our storage hormone, Period! It is the hormone that in the past saved us from dying when food was scarce and times were tough. The problem is that just about anywhere in the world you go now, that isn't the case. Food is abundant, and processed foods are the norm.

At any rate, the additional insulin that your Glipizide is responsible for sounds like it is acheiving its primary objective .... your BG levels look good!!! Congratulations on that. That is the key to living a long, normal life, free of diabetic complications. The problem is that since you have elevated levels of insulin circulating, EVERYTHING that your body doesn't need for fuel and repair, be it protein, carbs, or fats, is going to end up getting stored at fat ... that is what the insulin is instructing ... store ... store ... store .... never know when a famine may occur.

The thing is with your diet, I think you are going to have to keep your protein up as it sounds like you are doing ... making the source of it LEAN ... boneless, skinless chicken breast, boneless, skinless turkey breast, water pack tuna, other low fat fish, etc. You are also going to have to keep your carbs complex and in moderation, as its sounds like you are already doing. I am not sure what your source of fats currently is, but I would keep the fats down slightly from where they are now, and make sure that the ONLY fats that you are getting are a modest amount of things like extra virgin olive oil, a small amount of avacado, ***** 3 fish oils, very small portions of almonds. You certainly need a small amount of these types of essential fats, but you are really going to have to hold them to the miminum necessary for good general health to get the ball rolling on losing some weight. You are also going to need to spread these nutrients out into small meals over several times a day.

As already mentioned, excercise is also key. If you aren't already doing so, adding 30-45 minutes of something like a precor elliptical at low cardio levels for you age will help. Doing so very first thing in the morning before breakfast will help even more.

If all of these fail, then I would maybe discuss with your doctor whether a switch to Thiazolidinediones or combination Thiazolidinediones + Biguanides might be appropriate medication classes to treat your condition. In general, those classes of drugs won't interfere quite so much with weight gain as what you are dealing with now (though they certainly also possess potential in the right circumstance).

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

**dapper** · 07-06-2006, 07:13 AM

Originally Posted by RedBaron

I feel for your situation. That is one of the curses of some type II medications ... a REAL challenge to lose weight ... or even to hold your weight for that matter without it going up. Doctors and nutritionists can help you keep your BG levels in check and keep you healthy ... but losing weight is absolutely a bugger when taking the class of meds you are taking.

In your case, the problem with Glipizide is that it makes your pancreas secrete more insulin . The problem with insulin isn't ONLY with carbs. Insulin is our storage hormone, Period! It is the hormone that in the past saved us from dying when food was scarce and times were tough. The problem is that just about anywhere in the world you go now, that isn't the case. Food is abundant, and processed foods are the norm.

At any rate, the additional insulin that your Glipizide is responsible for sounds like it is acheiving its primary objective .... your BG levels look good!!! Congratulations on that. That is the key to living a long, normal life, free of diabetic complications. The problem is that since you have elevated levels of insulin circulating, EVERYTHING that your body doesn't need for fuel and repair, be it protein, carbs, or fats, is going to end up getting stored at fat ... that is what the insulin is instructing ... store ... store ... store .... never know when a famine may occur.

The thing is with your diet, I think you are going to have to keep your protein up as it sounds like you are doing ... making the source of it LEAN ... boneless, skinless chicken breast, boneless, skinless turkey breast, water pack tuna, other low fat fish, etc. You are also going to have to keep your carbs complex and in moderation, as its sounds like you are already doing. I am not sure what your source of fats currently is, but I would keep the fats down slightly from where they are now, and make sure that the ONLY fats that you are getting are a modest amount of things like extra virgin olive oil, a small amount of avacado, ***** 3 fish oils, very small portions of almonds. You certainly need a small amount of these types of essential fats, but you are really going to have to hold them to the miminum necessary for good general health to get the ball rolling on losing some weight. You are also going to need to spread these nutrients out into small meals over several times a day.

As already mentioned, excercise is also key. If you aren't already doing so, adding 30-45 minutes of something like a precor elliptical at low cardio levels for you age will help. Doing so very first thing in the morning before breakfast will help even more.

If all of these fail, then I would maybe discuss with your doctor whether a switch to Thiazolidinediones or combination Thiazolidinediones + Biguanides might be appropriate medication classes to treat your condition. In general, those classes of drugs won't interfere quite so much with weight gain as what you are dealing with now (though they certainly also possess potential in the right circumstance).

Best of luck to you. Keep us posted.

My daily fat intake consists of eggs, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Flaxseed ground of course, meal 3 will be either chicken or Laura's ground beef patti, 2% cottage cheese, fish oil 6 caps a day, natural peanut butter 1.5tbsp put in my cottage cheese which i hate, almonds 1tbsp.

The only time I eat carbs other than from veggies are pre workout, post workout, and meal 6 which is 1/2 cup 2% cottage cheese, 1.5 tbsp nat pb, night time protein shake mixed in water. I like this meal because I have been having what I would consider great moring numbers since I started it. This morning was 89.

I have read something about a product (drug) called Byetta, it is injectable, and what is does especially with the class of drug I am taking is tell the pancreas to stop producing insulin when it has made enough, it also tells the liver to stop storing sugar.

I am going to my doctor tomorrow to see what else we can try. I have been convinved for a while now that it was the insulin, but the doctors say it should not be causing weight gain. I was on metformin before and after I went in the hospital they changed it to glipizide. I don't know why they didn't tell me and I was too stupid at the time to ask them. I just did what my doctors said. Now I question everything they say or do.

**RedBaron** · 07-06-2006, 10:46 AM

The product you mentioned (Byetta) is a reasonably new product and a new class of drugs (incretin mimetic) to help control blood glucose in type 2. I believe the FDA has approved it as both an adjunct to existing oral medicines, as well as a stand-alone therapy (monotherapy) for patients with type 2 diabetes. It may well do the trick for you. It would give you the benefits of your glipizide without the liability of increased insulin levels at undesirable times, which in turn should make weight loss a little more reachable goal.

**johnsomebody** · 07-15-2006, 01:25 PM

Hats off to RB for really knowledgeable answers.

Who told you cardio isn't for fat loss?? Everything I've read says that fat is the preferred fuel for cardio -we went over the whole thing recently in a BIO 156 class, although I forget the exact name of the process, but it's about how the body prefers fats for fuel once the oxidation demands reach a certain level. What surprised me is it's not that high a level of exertion -brisk walking is enough to start the process and it would keep your pulse below 75.

I'd look into it more if you have the time.

**dapper** · 07-15-2006, 02:04 PM

I guess what I should have said was calorie deficiet is what you have to produce for fat loss. Now I understand anabolic and catobolic to a certain degree and we can lose "weight" but that weight could also be muscle. So the main objective is to lose fat and keep muscle. Also by adding muscle it is supposed to speed up your metabolism. So cardio is not a necessity for fat loss. You have to burn your glycogen stores then you start burning fat, hence if you do both weights and cardio on the same day it is best to do cardio after lifting since the lifting will burn the glycogen stores and you should burn more fat from the get go when doing cardio. Or do cardio in the morning and what at least 8 hours later do your lifting.

You hear talk about the fat burn zone and hiit type of cardio that HIIT is better in the long term meaning it last for hours after you are done you are still burning calories. Fat burn zone will preserve more muscle at the time you are doing it.

I just meant to say it is not necessary to do cardio for fat loss. Is mowing hte lawn cardio in the fat burn zone. Takes some people different amounts of time. My job is done mostly outside and can be considered a form of cardio however not constant, may only be 10 to 15 min at a time maybe only one or twice a day. I ride a recumbent bike every time before I lift. I am thinking of riding it for 10 min before for warmup and 10 min after for fat burn, that is 20 min a day 100 min a week. Plus the other stuff that I do.

Oh I used to do cardio every day for at least 30 min. I gained weight and tape measure never changed. So why bother when it also does not help.

**Lavinco** · 07-15-2006, 04:43 PM

Here's a little progress of myself. I've actually only been cutting now for 6 weeks.
If your serious about losing some weight with Type II holding you back, let me know.

**dapper** · 07-15-2006, 04:49 PM

I am very serious. I have been trying to lose fat for over a year now with no luck.

**Lavinco** · 07-15-2006, 05:07 PM

Originally Posted by dapper

I am very serious. I have been trying to lose fat for over a year now with no luck.

Well, here's what works for me.

I use my cellphone to set my eating reminders so I never miss a meal.

My workout looks like this.

AM Cardio on treadmill 45-60min, fast walk, Monday-Friday on Empty stomach Weekends off.

Mon. Chest/Tris
Tue. off
Wed. Legs/deadlifts
Thu. off
Fri. Back/Bi's/forearms
Sat. off
Sun. off

Diet looks like
8:30am - Carbs/Protein meal after cardio
11:30am - Protein/flax meal
3:00pm - Veggies/protein meal
5:00pm Workout
6:00pm PWO shake No dextrose. 50g protein/ oats banana and strawberries.
7:00pm Carbs/Protein meal
10:00pm Flax/Shake 50g protein with water and nothing else .

Always use whey protein for your shakes. Absolutely no sugar in your diet except for the fruit in your PWO on your workout days. Remember, NO SUGAR. Drink water instead of milk. Sugar free catsup and everything.

Use your ALA with a biotin pill only before your 2 carb meals. Do not include ALA before your PWO or any other time of the day.

Hope it helps.

BTW this cutting diet was inspired by the diet forums.
UNoffical "How to Cut" thread and sample diet...

**dapper** · 07-15-2006, 05:20 PM

Thanks for your reply I really appreciate I have one question and then I just wanted to put down what I do.

I am curious why you say that about the ALA. I started using ALA for the sole purpose of helping my neuropathy. It seems to have worked since I have very few bouts with it anymore.

I will give you a sample days diet.

8:00am 2 eggs, boca sausage, 1 scoop whey
11:00am 1 cup lettuce, 1 cup spinach, 1 tbsp almond slivers, 1 tbsp parmasean cheese, 1 hard booilded egg, 1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil, 2 tbsp red wine vinegar
2:00pm boca burger, 1 slice american cheese, 1 cup broccoli, 1 cup green beans, 1 hard boiled egg
4:30pm 2 scoop whey, 1/2 cup quick oats in blender and drink all this
Workout
post workout 2 scoops whey, 1/2 cup regualr oats blended

approx 1.5 hours later
1/2 cup no fat cottage cheese, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter, 1 scoop Syntrax Matrix 5.0 with water as all my protein drinks are mixed with, if you don't know this is a protein blend that contains caseins as well and my sugar has been staying oh 85-100 in the mornings and about the same at night.

My last 2 week average is 94 and last 30 days is 98. Before my sugar started going below 100 it was like 100-110 for a while, then 110-120 for a while and when I started it was like 120-130 eating for diabetes a year ago.

Evening numbers are usually 80-100 unless I have a planned cheat

Workout Sched
Mon-Legs/Calves
Tues-Chest
Wed-Back
Thur-Bis/Tris
Fri-Shoulders
Sat and Sun-Off other than lawn and house work. Single fater as well.

I have done all type of workouts, I have used supersetting as well. I used to do cardio but it didn't help so I stopped. Another reason I stopped is I have degenerative disk disease and if I am on my feet too long my legs go numb, I try and use the pool at the gym but it is closed every night for class. Being a single father with no visitation from the mother means I do good to get to the gym every night I usually don't get in bed until 12 to 1 am and no way I can get up so early for work. I prepare as much food as I can on the weekends to help with time.

**Lavinco** · 07-15-2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by dapper

I am curious why you say that about the ALA. I started using ALA for the sole purpose of helping my neuropathy. It seems to have worked since I have very few bouts with it anymore.

I will give you a sample days diet.

8:00am 2 eggs, boca sausage, 1 scoop whey
11:00am 1 cup lettuce, 1 cup spinach, 1 tbsp almond slivers, 1 tbsp parmasean cheese, 1 hard booilded egg, 1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil, 2 tbsp red wine vinegar
2:00pm boca burger, 1 slice american cheese, 1 cup broccoli, 1 cup green beans, 1 hard boiled egg
4:30pm 2 scoop whey, 1/2 cup quick oats in blender and drink all this
Workout
post workout 2 scoops whey, 1/2 cup regualr oats blended

approx 1.5 hours later
1/2 cup no fat cottage cheese, 1 tbsp natural peanut butter, 1 scoop Syntrax Matrix 5.0 with water as all my protein drinks are mixed with, if you don't know this is a protein blend that contains caseins as well and my sugar has been staying oh 85-100 in the mornings and about the same at night.

My last 2 week average is 94 and last 30 days is 98. Before my sugar started going below 100 it was like 100-110 for a while, then 110-120 for a while and when I started it was like 120-130 eating for diabetes a year ago.

Evening numbers are usually 80-100 unless I have a planned cheat

Workout Sched
Mon-Legs/Calves
Tues-Chest
Wed-Back
Thur-Bis/Tris
Fri-Shoulders
Sat and Sun-Off other than lawn and house work. Single fater as well.

ALA with biotin is more of a sugar blocker. Sugar comes from carbs. Therefore it is very important that you only take it before your heavy carb meals to help stabilize blood sugar levels.

You want a little spike in your blood sugar from the fruit and oats in your PWO (Post workout) Shake. Your sugar will be low anyways from the workout and a spike in sugar causes more insulin production thus delivering that whey protein to your muscles quicker when they are in dire need of replenishment.

Your blood sugar numbers are well within their normal range. You have good control of your sugar.

However,

your diet is indeed off for cutting.

NO processed food bro.
Get the sausage out of your breakfast and cheese out of your diet.

Here's an example of what I eat.

8:30am - 8 egg whites 2 whole wheat toast.

11:30am - 3 four oz. salmon fillet's cooked in olive oil with some flak pills.

3:00pm - Frozen chicken breast (boiled and chopped) in my salad that consists of lettuce, some cherry tomato's, FF Croutons and FF dressing. This meal is your Pre-workout meal.

6:00pm - PWO Shake as described above.

7:00pm - Brown rice, with either chicken, salmon or shrimp and stir-fry OR Tuna patties.

10:00pm - One final shake before bed consisting of 50g whey protein as I swallow some more flax pills.

You may want to consider changing your workout routine as well just to shock the body. You may want to try what I suggested above with the Mon - Wed. - Fri workout to allow your Central Nervous System (CNS) more adequate time to recover between workouts.

**Lavinco** · 07-15-2006, 05:20 PM

I forgot to mention an important piece of information.

For cutting, your workout routine needs to consist of high reps.

Do 6 sets and 15 reps for each muscle-group.

**johnsomebody** · 07-15-2006, 07:33 PM

All right, forget it. I'm sorry I bothered.

**bangora** · 10-30-2007, 12:28 AM

I have checked into diabetes for my daddy in law and scintists say that 1000 micro milligrams of Chromium Piculinate CURES diabetes. Im not sure about type 2 but my daddy in law stopped takeing insuline in less than a year. Study up on it.

**DrBell** · 10-30-2007, 07:01 PM

Rule of thumb:
1. Don't shop in the middle isles. Produce up front, meat along the side, and the juice and eggs are in the back. Everything in the middle isles are processed, packaged with starch, or will turn to starch. Starch goes straight to sugar with one step that starts in your mouth with an enzyme called amylase. The sodas, snacks, and chips are all near the baked goods. DON'T SHOP WRONG AND THE JUNK WON'T BE IN YOUR HOUSE!!!
2. Stay away from dairy. Yes I said it. It is the #1 allergen in the US. Go check on the american allergy foundation website. There are also many research articles that link type 2 diabetes and milk. Stick with soy or rice for milk supplements.
3. Don't eat anything white except: eggs, beans, and cauli flower. I can't think of anything else that's white that is good for you. All of the white devils are very bad for plaquing your GI system and will also spike your blood sugur. Brown rice and wheat pasta is still just rice and flower that hasn't been bleached yet.
4. Cinnamon bark and chromium picolinate are definately your friend. Chromium pic is a co-enzyme your insulin needs to help escort the sugar out of your blood. Cinnamon has been found to help blood sugar level handling.
5. Only eat complex carbs such as 8grain or wholegrain breads or wild rice (not brown rice).
6. Diabetic trick is to eat protein with every meal esp. ones that include anything that will spike your blood sugar. Protein negatest the effects of carbs. Thus the reason the food industry list total carbs, then protein, then net carbs.

Hope this helps. I give this high protein, low carb regimen to all my diabetic patients. Carb loading just isn't possible with type 2 diabetes. You will have to build lean, mean muscle the long and hard way. No fast bulking.

You basically have to stick with lean meats (pref. chicken or fish) pork, the other white meat, is ok. Other than your protein any vegetable is great. Keep in mind all the green vegies are lower in sugars/carbs. Think about it... vegies that have color such as yellow or red are sweeter in taste. But if you are eating vegies you are way ahead of the game. Most would still be eating pizza and bannana splits. Speaking of bannanas that reminds me..... keep your juices and fruits to the A.M. That way you have the rest of the day to "burn off" the natural sugars found in them. Your juice should say 100% juice. If it says water, high fructose corn syrup and artificial flavors it is man made juice.
Sorry for the long post and you guys have great advice, but I had to throw in my 2 cents worth. So long more like a dime.

**sphincter** · 10-30-2007, 11:29 PM

all I can say is WOW!! all the awesome info that just keeps on coming is so amazing and inspiring to me to learn more and try to contribute in even the slightest way I can in order to try to repay a bit of what I have gained from this forum!! KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK guys!!!