47 need good advice

[dstackpole]

Im a 47 year old who has been currently working out for 1 year. I was going to the gym only to encourage my son who was in his senior year of high school football. I really admired his dedication and physical appearance I always wished I had chosen the path to start working out earlier in my life. Then I thought what the hell, if I'm going to the gym anyway may as well work on getting myself in shape. To make a long story short I became addicted. Good genetics and hard work was paying off, I started looking pretty good. Ok I'm 47 is it possable at my age to look leaner, be stronger and feel better than ever before? I really started to think so. 7 months in people started taking notice and the possitive feeddack was rolling in, even my wife of 29 years was getting a little jealous, Boy do I feel great and the self esteem level was just wanting me to push harder. But how do I get bigger and stronger faster? Juice.... I had already been taking an oral test cream but that just did'nt seem to be good enough then I got a hold of some deca and sust 250 been using them twice a week I should be finishing up on my 12 week cycle soon. I had blood work done recently and test levels were 3000+ doc who is a freind of mine said STOP... But my mind says no way Sex has been out of this world, I feel and look great, What will happen when I stop? How will I maintain? How soon before I can start another cycle? Is it ok to do another cycle now? Is this hurting someone my age? Need experienced advice Thanks a bunch...

[Kale]

Boy have you come to the right place !!! Man you have got a lot to learn. I am 53 and this is me Third Cycle Log I have been juicing for five years. I am on a permanent dose of Test now and still cycle occasionally.
Getting bigger is all about Diet, you need to eat at least 3000 calories a day. Here is a sample diet UNoffical "How to Bulk" thread and sample diet... Now at the end of your cycle you have to run a thing called Post Cycle Therapy to maintain your gains and also to restart your natural Testosterone production , read this it will explain Pheedno's PCT all of the PCT drugs are available here http://ar-r.com/shop/ they are called Tamox and Clomi in that web site.

But you might decide that you want to stay on for good, this is called Hormone Replacement Therapy or HRT, also know as Testosterone Replacement Therapy of TRT, thats a low dose of Testosterone injected once a week that will keep your test levels near the top of the range, just like you were twenty again. We can discuss all that later. This forum is where you go to find out about that http://forums.steroid.com/forumdispl...aysprune=&f=72

So some questions for you, what are your height, stats and weight now. Exactly how much sust and deca have you been shooting ?

Fire away with the questions, I am sure you have many

[dstackpole]

Thanks for the reply Kale, let me give some information about myself. As stated I'm 47 to be 48 in May. I'm 6' 185.7 lbs my syringes are measured in ML, I use .5 ml of deca and .5 ml sust on tues and fri. I have definitly gained strength and muscle definition but have remained the same weight during the cycle period I think that that might be because I'm gaining muscle size but also loosing fat??? Response would be appreciated Thanks...

[Kale]

The containers that have the juice in them have a measurement described as mg/ml, what are those numbers on your Sust and Deca . I presume the sust is 250mg/ml but the Deca could be anything

[dstackpole]

sust 250 and deca 300 were the first stack now working on sust 250 and Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg

[Kale]

sust 250 and deca 300 were the first stack now working on sust 250 and Nandrolone Decanoate 300mg

OK first of all Deca and Nadrolone Decanoate is the same thing. So your cycle is effectivly

250 mg Sust and 300mg of Deca a week. Thats a pretty low dose cycle but the proof is in the blood test that puts your test at 3000 ng/nl. The top of the range is around 900 ng/nl. Highest mine has ever been was 4300 ng/nl, the pathologist thought I had a tumor !!!.

So at 12 weeks you need to decide if you want to try and restart your natural Test production or go on HRT for the rest of your life, that would mean one shot a week of Test E or even Sust will do at 100mg a week to start with but thats your call. If you do PCT you will start that 14 days after the last sust injection. It is recommended that you stop the Deca a couple of weeks before the sust as well because recovering from Deca is a bitch.

[dstackpole]

Ok, I had blood test about 16 months ago and my test levels were 256, but I was feeling lethargic during the afternoon hours, I went in to see the doc who is a freind of mine and he gave me some Androgel , seemed to help some but just still did'nt feel very energetic. So he called in a perscription for a compound oral test and that brought levels to around 500. at that time I started cardio in the mornings and weights at night started to feel a little better got more energy durring the day then started my cycles and have felt unbelievably great tons of energy and big time sex drive. I start my mornings doing the sparan 300 workout everyday and lift 4 days a week with my son in the evening. how will stopping my cycle effect me? Have I been taking test so long that normal production might not happen? I have no problem staying on the sust but are concerned about any long term effects. Outside of my test levels being high all other test were ok, Doc says what ever I'm doing keep it up but need to lower test levels.

[Kale]

Ok, I had blood test about 16 months ago and my test levels were 256, but I was feeling lethargic during the afternoon hours, I went in to see the doc who is a freind of mine and he gave me some Androgel, seemed to help some but just still did'nt feel very energetic. So he called in a perscription for a compound oral test and that brought levels to around 500. at that time I started cardio in the mornings and weights at night started to feel a little better got more energy durring the day then started my cycles and have felt unbelievably great tons of energy and big time sex drive. I start my mornings doing the sparan 300 workout everyday and lift 4 days a week with my son in the evening. how will stopping my cycle effect me? Have I been taking test so long that normal production might not happen? I have no problem staying on the sust but are concerned about any long term effects. Outside of my test levels being high all other test were ok, Doc says what ever I'm doing keep it up but need to lower test levels.

So here is what is happening to you, you have been on for almost 12 weeks. Your natural Testosterone production has completely shutdown. If you dont restart it you will lose all your gains and you will have no sex drive again as there is no longer any Test in your system to maintain muscle mass and your willie. What most people do is to take some drugs that cause the natural Test production to restart, that is called Post Cycle Therapy or PCT. They actually takes stuff that women use to fight Breast Cancer and to increase egg production. Given your levels were already low before you started, it is unlikely that your natural production will restart sufficiently to be of any use to you. You should consider a low dose of Testosterone in the form of HRT. Its a low dose which will keep you at the top of the range. Side effects are minimal to none. You need to get a blood test now and then to make sure you are near the top of the range and that your Estrogen levels arnt to high as that can lead to problem with you titties but this is unlikely on the doses you will be on. You can still cycle as well whenever you want and when you are finished the cycle you just go straight back on to the low dose of Test again.

[sonysucks]

Kale when natural test has ceased during and shortly after a cycle can it begin to restore itself and be supplemented by a little test(like the andriol I mentioned before) or will any supplementation shut down all natural restoration.
Meaning as it rebuilds will a small supplement add to it or just put the natural production back into dormancy?

[Kale]

Kale when natural test has ceased during and shortly after a cycle can it begin to restore itself and be supplemented by a little test(like the andriol I mentioned before) or will any supplementation shut down all natural restoration.
Meaning as it rebuilds will a small supplement add to it or just put the natural production back into dormancy?

If you think about this logically what the body does is measure its own test levels constantly if androgynous( external) test is added then the body will reduce its own production, if no androgynous test is present then the body will make its own. So draw your own conclusion as to whether or not you think adding test after a cycle is a good idea or not. As for supplements thats a different story, the supplements are simply helping to boost your own system into making more obviously if the system gets to the top of the range the supplements will be ignore until the levels reduce to the body's homeostasis for testosterone .

[sonysucks]

My logical thinking lead to a different idea. If the body is trying to reach stasis which is x ng/nl and just off a cycle it can not immediatelly replenish to that point , it will produce all the natural it can (say for eg. 1/2 x ng/nl ) and you can top that up with an added test product so long as you dont exceed the natural level (stasis)the body is striving toward it will continue to produce naturally at its fastest rate till the stasis level it wants is reached while you are tapering the external test product off to nil. Make any sense?

[dstackpole]

What dose do you recomend for PCT? Is sust 250 ok? How long before I can cycle again?

[iceman1961]

Excellent Q&A thread guys! 46 here also an just having my test levels checked now. Been doin one maybe two small to medium cycles per yr for the last 10 yrs now depending on availability. When I started ,clomid for 2-3 weeks was the only pct (or maybe nolva) I knew of an I think that this really did a job on my nat test levels. My libido is almost at a dead stop an its startin to effect my marrige! Doc already said that he has no prob prescribin the patchs but from what I've been reading, this may be too little too late! Dont really know what I'm askin, Just feelin like I really f_ _ked up not doin more research on pct an was hopein I could help someone else not make the same mistakes! PEACE ICE!

[Kale]

Excellent Q&A thread guys! 46 here also an just having my test levels checked now. Been doin one maybe two small to medium cycles per yr for the last 10 yrs now depending on availability. When I started ,clomid for 2-3 weeks was the only pct (or maybe nolva) I knew of an I think that this really did a job on my nat test levels. My libido is almost at a dead stop an its startin to effect my marrige! Doc already said that he has no prob prescribin the patchs but from what I've been reading, this may be too little too late! Dont really know what I'm askin, Just feelin like I really f_ _ked up not doin more research on pct an was hopein I could help someone else not make the same mistakes! PEACE ICE!

Welcome to the board dude. It will be intersting to see the results of your blood tests. Make sure they do Free and Total Test and Estradiol as Estrogen can have as big an impact on your libido as Low Test. If your Test is really that low the shots are absolutely the best way to go and will give you results with four weeks.

[iceman1961]

Thanks for the reply kale. As far as the free test goes...what is the normal range? I'm chkin the post in the anti ageing forum but all I find is reg test levels...any help would b appreciated

[Kale]

Thanks for the reply kale. As far as the free test goes...what is the normal range? I'm chkin the post in the anti ageing forum but all I find is reg test levels...any help would b appreciated

The normal range for free Test is 50-210 pg/ml

[oker]

I may have missed this on the HRT/TRT forum (actually there seems to be more about TRT than HRT), but wondering what's the significant difference between HRT/TRT - what is each therapy designed to do?

[Kale]

I may have missed this on the HRT/TRT forum (actually there seems to be more about TRT than HRT), but wondering what's the significant difference between HRT/TRT - what is each therapy designed to do?

Dude they are exactly the same thing. TRT stands for Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

[oker]

Dude they are exactly the same thing. TRT stands for Testosterone Replacement Therapy.

Cheers Kale I know what it means - lol...easy to assume they're different when the other stands for "hormone" replacement therapy...hormone and testosterone being 2 different words having different definitions, right? Don’t take this as a stab I just think it’s an easy mistake to make (on my part) based on the 2 differently named therapies, but see how they are the same now. Anyway, thanks for the info good thread brother

[Kale]

Cheers Kale I know what it means - lol...easy to assume they're different when the other stands for "hormone" replacement therapy...hormone and testosterone being 2 different words having different definitions, right? Don’t take this as a stab I just think it’s an easy mistake to make (on my part) based on the 2 differently named therapies, but see how they are the same now. Anyway, thanks for the info good thread brother

Yes I guess hormone is a Generic term for all hormones and Testosterone just being one of them.

[oker]

Yes I guess hormone is a Generic term for all hormones and Testosterone just being one of them.

Kale, I'm curious - you have had problems with prostate right? Would you say the peeing frequently during the night at age 40 is a cause for concern? or just a natural occurrence that I can't avoid at my age. I mean, I have no pain or any other symptom of prostate problems except that just some difficulty pissing in the mornings, and that only started a few days ago (and one week into my 2nd cycle). Apart from that I have a free and constant flow. Do you remember when you started having problems and did it begin like this? Cheers in advance dude for the input.

[Kale]

Kale, I'm curious - you have had problems with prostate right? Would you say the peeing frequently during the night at age 40 is a cause for concern? or just a natural occurrence that I can't avoid at my age. I mean, I have no pain or any other symptom of prostate problems except that just some difficulty pissing in the mornings, and that only started a few days ago (and one week into my 2nd cycle). Apart from that I have a free and constant flow. Do you remember when you started having problems and did it begin like this? Cheers in advance dude for the input.

Its probably just inflamed due to the juice but the only way to know for sure is to complete the cycle and see what happens after you are off the juice and back to normal. If you still have the problem then its time to get a few tests. Its unusual at 40 to have these symptoms, but the symptoms you are having are classic for BPH. By the way if it is enlarged like mine its called BPH or Benign Prostate Hyperplasia. It can be effectively treated with a drug called Proscar which is a DHT blocker that usually reduces the size by a significant amount. So dont panic yet, complete the cycle and take it from there.

[oker]

Its probably just inflamed due to the juice but the only way to know for sure is to complete the cycle and see what happens after you are off the juice and back to normal. If you still have the problem then its time to get a few tests. Its unusual at 40 to have these symptoms, but the symptoms you are having are classic for BPH. By the way if it is enlarged like mine its called BPH or Benign Prostate Hyperplasia. It can be effectively treated with a drug called Proscar which is a DHT blocker that usually reduces the size by a significant amount. So dont panic yet, complete the cycle and take it from there.

Thanks a bundle bro! At 40? I thought prostate problems usually begin at 40 or is it older? I did party a lot when I was young maybe that's the reason - lol

Kale about the proscar, aka finasteride rigfht? I know it takes a while on the hair, which I don't care about because I have plenty, but does it have an immediate affect on the prostate. I mean will the pissing strain get easier within days/weeks/months or should I think about getting something with a faster acting agent. Also, what’s the dosage on finasteride? Once a day in mornings with food I’m guessing?

Cheers again brother

[Kale]

No BPH and Prostate issues usually start around 50. As for the Proscar it actually takes about six months for it to be totally effective. They have another thing called Hytrin which actually relaxes the muscle that controls the urine flow from the bladder into the Uretha which is a bit quicker. And as for the hair thing, well it did fvck all for me that is for sure.

I take 5 mg ED of Proscar, bu I am much further down the track than you, I have already had a Prostate Biopsy and just waiting for the cancer thing to start happening as they found cells in there that they say will turn to cancer in the next five years.

[oker]

No BPH and Prostate issues usually start around 50. As for the Proscar it actually takes about six months for it to be totally effective. They have another thing called Hytrin which actually relaxes the muscle that controls the urine flow from the bladder into the Uretha which is a bit quicker. And as for the hair thing, well it did fvck all for me that is for sure.

I take 5 mg ED of Proscar, bu I am much further down the track than you, I have already had a Prostate Biopsy and just waiting for the cancer thing to start happening as they found cells in there that they say will turn to cancer in the next five years.

Man that's a little scary for me then, fvck - so maybe I have something to worry about? Damn much scarier for you though bro, are you concerned about it or has it been detected in time? The interesting thing is that you don't do any heavy cycles bro. How long have you been on the juice? Have you always done HRT or is that recent?

Your HRT interests me very much and I plan on doing the same...perhaps drop from 600 test e a week to 250 a week and continue to cruise on that for a while, then down to 125 a week when I get to my peak. After hearing this, though, almost makes me wanna cut the juice out all together, but probably won't :-)

[Kale]

Man that's a little scary for me then, fvck - so maybe I have something to worry about? Damn much scarier for you though bro, are you concerned about it or has it been detected in time? The interesting thing is that you don't do any heavy cycles bro. How long have you been on the juice? Have you always done HRT or is that recent?

Your HRT interests me very much and I plan on doing the same...perhaps drop from 600 test e a week to 250 a week and continue to cruise on that for a while, then down to 125 a week when I get to my peak. After hearing this, though, almost makes me wanna cut the juice out all together, but probably won't :-)

I have been juicing for about five years, both heavy cycles and HRT. The HRT started about three years ago. As for the BPH who knows what started that, but every 60-70 yo man who has ever been autopsied has an enlarged Prostate or even Prostate Cancer and they didnt know. Its very slow growing, if you get it before it gets out of the Prostate capsule its 100% curable, if it gets out you are fvcked.

Trouble is to get rid of it you have to have the Prostate removed to be 100% sure, but that then means your sex life is over as they invariably damage the nerves that control your erections. And making a decision between death and no sex ? I am erring on the side of death quite frankly, I havnt had another test done in 12 months and I am due. The test they do is a blood test called a PSA test or Prostate Specific Antigen, trouble is its not entirely accurate and the only way to know for sure is a Prostate Biopsy but even then they could miss the cancer if its present because of the way they do the biospy and also because of the size of the Prostate.

So if I was you I would start with a PSA test and a chat with the Dr if it doesnt settle down after the cycle.

[oker]

I have been juicing for about five years, both heavy cycles and HRT. The HRT started about three years ago. As for the BPH who knows what started that, but every 60-70 yo man who has ever been autopsied has an enlarged Prostate or even Prostate Cancer and they didnt know. Its very slow growing, if you get it before it gets out of the Prostate capsule its 100% curable, if it gets out you are fvcked.

Trouble is to get rid of it you have to have the Prostate removed to be 100% sure, but that then means your sex life is over as they invariably damage the nerves that control your erections. And making a decision between death and no sex ? I am erring on the side of death quite frankly, I havnt had another test done in 12 months and I am due. The test they do is a blood test called a PSA test or Prostate Specific Antigen, trouble is its not entirely accurate and the only way to know for sure is a Prostate Biopsy but even then they could miss the cancer if its present because of the way they do the biospy and also because of the size of the Prostate.

So if I was you I would start with a PSA test and a chat with the Dr if it doesnt settle down after the cycle.

I just hope my years of partying, brawling and banging bitches haven't brought about the suspected prostate problems I have now – lol – it could just be a urinary infect I hope. I don't know much about it except what you said about most men have an enlarged prostate and it begins actually very young (the enlargement process) and continues to grow (can't remember where I read that) until you die.

Do you remember what your very first symptoms were, of prostate enlargement and the cancer respectively? It's probably different for everyone but it may help me to better understand my symptoms.

What's the PSA test? is that where the doc straps on the old rubber glove and goes fishing? Man screw that I can't even imagine it! But what choice would I have if the other 2 tests are not accurate. I think I will take your advice and get it all checked after this cycle. But would that mean I would have to come off the juice completely (to be clean when I see the doc) and not do the HRT?

PS forgot to ask, did you have any symptoms of prostate changes before the juice?

[Kale]

I just hope my years of partying, brawling and banging bitches haven't brought about the suspected prostate problems I have now – lol – it could just be a urinary infect I hope. I don't know much about it except what you said about most men have an enlarged prostate and it begins actually very young (the enlargement process) and continues to grow (can't remember where I read that) until you die.

Do you remember what your very first symptoms were, of prostate enlargement and the cancer respectively? It's probably different for everyone but it may help me to better understand my symptoms.

What's the PSA test? is that where the doc straps on the old rubber glove and goes fishing? Man screw that I can't even imagine it! But what choice would I have if the other 2 tests are not accurate. I think I will take your advice and get it all checked after this cycle. But would that mean I would have to come off the juice completely (to be clean when I see the doc) and not do the HRT?

PS forgot to ask, did you have any symptoms of prostate changes before the juice?

First symptoms where when I was about 50 for BPH. I dont have cancer yet just the precursor sells that indicate it might happen. PSA stands for Prostate Specific Antigen, if its high it can me there is cancer but its not 100% accurate, its a simple blood test. Finger test is a must and only takes about 10 seconds its not that big a deal. For me they did an rectal ultra sound as well and that required the probe being shoved up my ass that was not fun. Yes come off completely for a while before you have any tests done.