HCG..5000iu monday, 5000iu thursday

**Big Broker 1** · 07-12-2006, 12:02 PM

Okay i had a bad cycle experience about a year ago and to make a long story short i droped my test levels way low. after about 8 months i am now almost normal. My doctor told me am at 161 last week the normal levels are between 170-700. My friend told me to take HCG at 5000iu on monday and again the same on thursday and that would shock my body back to normal. Is this true? please only post if you have experience with this, THANK YOU

**Smart@$$** · 07-12-2006, 12:20 PM

I think it is too much.

I would maybe take 3000iu every third day for 3 shots total or 2500iu every third day for 4 shots total while taking nolvadex ed at about 20mg, immediately after last shot do 50mg of clomid for two weeks(keep taking nolva for about a week after you end clomid).

**Smart@$$** · 07-12-2006, 12:22 PM

You must take nolva at those doses in my opinion.

Nandi wrote this about nolva and hcg .

Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization

Posted by Nandi12 on CEM

Tamoxifen Blocks HCG Induced Leydig Cell Desensitization
HCG induced testicular desensitization seems to be a hot topic. There are a number of studies showing that concomitant use of Nolvadex ameliorates this. The first abstract suggests that HCG at least partially blocks the conversion of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP), a testosterone precursor, to testosterone. This effect is suppressed by Nolvadex.

The second abstract seems to indicate that estrogen may not be the only culprit, since Nolvadex plus HCG does not increase T levels any more than HCG alone, even though the combination reduces desensitization.

Since we are trying to avoid this desensitization so when we quit the HCG our testes respond to our endogenous LH, it makes sense to always use nolvadex with HCG to at least help the problem, if not solve it completely.

J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1980 Nov;51(5):1026-9

Tamoxifen suppresses gonadotropin-induced 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone accumulation in normal men.

Smals AG, Pieters GF, Drayer JI, Boers GH, Benraad TJ, Kloppenborg PW.

Intramuscular administration of 1500 IU hCG daily for 3 days induced a transient accumulation of 17 alpha-hydroxyprogesterone (17 OHP) relative to testosterone (T) in normal men, reaching its maximum 24 h after the first injection (17 OHP to T ratio, 1.7 +/- 0.3 times baseline; P < 0.01). Simultaneous administration of hCG and the estrogen antagonist tamoxifen (20 mg twice daily) almost completely abolished the hCG-induced steroidogenic block localized between 17 OHP and T (17 OHP to T ratio at 24 h, 1.1 +/- 0.1 times baseline; P < 0.01 vs. hCG alone). These data indirectly suggest that, in man, the hCG-induced steroidogenic lesion might be mediated through its estrogen-stimulating effect.

Andrologia 1991 Mar-Apr;23(2):109-14

Effect of an antiestrogen on the testicular response to acute and chronic administration of hCG in normal and hypogonadotropic hypogonadic men: tamoxifen and testicular response to hCG.

Levalle OA, Suescun MO, Fiszlejder L, Aszpis S, Charreau E, Guitelman A, Calandra R.

Division Endocrinologia, Hospital Carlos Durand, Instituto de Biologia y Medicina Experimental, Buenos Aires, Argentina.

The effect of the antiestrogen tamoxifen (Tx) on the acute and chronic hCG administration was evaluated in patients with hypogonadotropic hypogonadism (HH) and in normal men. An hCG test (5000 IU hCG) was performed before, after two months of hCG administration (2000 IU hCG three times weekly) and after two months of hCG + Tx (2000 IU hCG three times weekly plus 20 mg/day of tamoxifen). Blood samples were obtained before and following 24 and 72 h of every test to determine T, E, 17OHP and SHBG. T increased only in HH with both treatments (X +/- SEM: Basal: 97.9 +/- 19.7; hCG: 237.7 +/- 43.2; hCG +/- Tx: 204.7 +/- 10.7 ng/100 ml). 17OHP rose with hCG alone, but not with hCG + Tx in both groups. E, SHBG and 17OHP/T ratio did not change after treatments. hCG tests: E increased 24 h following hCG administration in every test. The ratio 17OHP/T rose at 24 h in the first and second test but in the third test it did not change. These results support the role of E in the acute hCG-induced Leydig cell desensitization. However, the association of Tx does not improve T serum levels, suggesting that E might not be the unique factor involved in the mechanisms for testicular desensitization.

**Big Broker 1** · 07-12-2006, 12:45 PM

thank you alot, my question is this, i am not on a cycle and have not been on one for about a year now i just want to put my levels were they should be so in the next few months i can start another cycle. like i sad before i am almost at the normal levels already 160, the normal levels beggin at 170-700, my guy told me he has the 2500iu Hcg ... Do i need to take the nolva and clomid, it's not like i just got off a big cycle...Thank you for you help Smart...

**Smart@$$** · 07-12-2006, 01:00 PM

Originally Posted by Big Broker 1

thank you alot, my question is this, i am not on a cycle and have not been on one for about a year now i just want to put my levels were they should be so in the next few months i can start another cycle. like i sad before i am almost at the normal levels already 160, the normal levels beggin at 170-700, my guy told me he has the 2500iu Hcg... Do i need to take the nolva and clomid, it's not like i just got off a big cycle...Thank you for you help Smart...

Yes nolva for estrogen control and leydig desensitization. Clomid for hpta recovery.

I would do nothing since it has been a whole year. Man, I would really consider what you did last time for it to take a year to Almost recover.

**Smart@$$** · 07-12-2006, 01:03 PM

If you decide to take my first post advice please stay off cycle for awhile so your body can get used to the natural function.

**Big Broker 1** · 07-12-2006, 01:26 PM

thank you, i really dont know if i should just stick it out since i have already for a year or if i should take the hcg with nolva and clomid. I already feel 95% i was just going to take it to put me back to normal

**Big Broker 1** · 07-12-2006, 01:32 PM

i always have done my cycles with pct but my last cycle was over a year ago and i didn't do my research. I did 12 weeks of deca with no pct and no test... I later found out what i did was a big no no..It's been a year so i think i've been off long i just want to get my body back to normal so i can start my next cycle by november...i want to do wks 1-6 test prop eod, wks 1-6 fina eod, and 6-10 winny and clen followed by hcg (not sure on how much yet)and clomid for 30 days. I dont get gyno so nothing for that.

**Big Broker 1** · 07-13-2006, 09:39 AM

bump....any one else got an opinion on the matter

**Big Broker 1** · 07-18-2006, 12:10 PM

just want to get some more help....any1? again am lookin to get my test levels back to normal for a 21yr old male...

**Roes5000** · 07-19-2006, 02:42 AM

It is important to note that HCG does not restore the negative feedback on the hypothalamohypophysial testicular axis, therefore the simultaneous use of Clomid is advised.

Just be carefull in your dosage.The reason for this is that HCG can cause desensitization in the testes and this may cause permanent damage.

**Logan13** · 07-19-2006, 08:08 AM

Originally Posted by Big Broker 1

just want to get some more help....any1? again am lookin to get my test levels back to normal for a 21yr old male...

You have received some very good suggestions in this thread already. No one in the know would suggest that you go on-cycle again until levels are stabilized, so quit asking for someone to say it's a good idea..........