need help!!i think i desensitize the Leydig's cells to luteinizing hormone

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-01-2007, 01:17 AM

removed

**InsaneInTheMembrane** · 10-01-2007, 02:10 AM

your PCT was seriously flawed bro!

5000 ius per shot of HCG definitely has a part in further desensitizing you by spiking your test levels; while using clomid for 2 weeks is not enough...

You should read the sticky on dosing and proper PCT planning and do another one.

It shouldn't be permanent: stop everything now, wait a month to regain some LH sensitivity back, and do another proper PCT....

I'll let the other bros chime in, they may offer better advice

**ziinus** · 10-01-2007, 09:31 AM

Lh desensitivty with hcg is real but definitelay overrated

**Swifto** · 10-01-2007, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by ziinus

Lh desensitivty with hcg is real but definitelay overrated

Agreed.

I cant see it happening from a few shots of 5000ius HCG .

If anything, run some Nolva (20mg/ED) and Clomid 50mg/ED for 4-5 weeks with an AI if need be.

I dont think you would have caused leydig cell desensitisaion.

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-02-2007, 12:59 PM

thank very much guys!!but if i begin my next cycle?what you think?

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-02-2007, 03:49 PM

is it the leydig cell desensitisaion permanent?and what are the side effects of what?

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-03-2007, 12:23 AM

i have forget to post something:
"Desensitization to gonadotropins in cultured Leydig tumor cells involves loss of gonadotropin receptors and decreased capacity for steroidogenesis. Freeman DA, Ascoli M Proc Natl Acad Sci U S A 1981 Oct;78(10):6309-13 "
....what means that???

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-06-2007, 08:01 AM

what should i do next??..if i have caused leydig cell desensitisaion??i will cannot fix the problem??

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-06-2007, 11:31 AM

this is what i have read on steroid .com about hcg :
"If HCG is taken by male athletes over many weeks and in high dosages, it is possible that the testes will respond poorly to a later HCG intake and a release of the body's own LH. This could result in a permanent inadequate gonadal function."

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-06-2007, 11:44 AM

ALSO I HAVE READ THIS:
"One should however take care when using HCG as prolonged use could repress the body´s natural production of gonadotropins permanently, but this is mostly just pure speculation as it does not have yet to be reported nor has there been a case of an overdose"

**ziinus** · 10-06-2007, 06:04 PM

You have normal test levels so your balls respond well to Lh so don"t worry.

Lh commands testosterone production in your balls
fsh commands Spermatozoide production in your balls.

So lh desensitivity will result in low test, no low sperm count.

You have normal test so your Erectyle disfunction is not related to this, maybe it's all in your head, and i think it's that.

I don't want to be rude, but you shouldn't do steroids . You're not ready phisically, nor psycologically.

Now be a man and stop crying. Don't take drugs anymore, and do a blood work in 2-4 weeks

PS: the more you will worry, the more your penis will be soft

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-07-2007, 02:17 AM

thnks for your's advice my friend.so this is the problem.i have found a drug almost like hcg -metrodin.it containes fsh.and it raise my fsh levels..it has 75 and 150ui concentrations.what you think?should i do some shots along with hcg on my next cycle??

**ziinus** · 10-07-2007, 02:32 AM

Stay out of drugs for a litle time, an do a sperm count test. May be you have low sperm count that is not related to steroid usage. And stop thinking adding more and more products to your cycles, you'are making the situation worse.

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-07-2007, 02:35 AM

my problems with sperm count had appear after my steroids regim.i have done 4weeks pct and now i am again on a cycle with A50,susta and deca ,because i want to go to contest in september

**ottomaddox** · 10-07-2007, 02:55 AM

How can you expect to recover, you're an accident waiting to happen, by doing a 20 week cycle with astronomical amounts of steroids and then doing a pitiful 4 week pct? Now your penis is not working correctly and you are already jumping on another seriously crazy cycle! Have you ever heard of Time On = Time Off + PCT. If you keep going on with such diligent carelessness, you can only expect to have more problems.
CR

**Mazzive_T** · 10-07-2007, 04:14 AM

Originally Posted by ottomaddox

How can you expect to recover, you're an accident waiting to happen, by doing a 20 week cycle with astronomical amounts of steroids and then doing a pitiful 4 week pct? Now your penis is not working correctly and you are already jumping on another seriously crazy cycle! Have you ever heard of Time On = Time Off + PCT. If you keep going on with such diligent carelessness, you can only expect to have more problems.
CR

Its Time Off = Time On + PCT.

Sorry to correct you. But everything else you said is true.

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-07-2007, 09:02 AM

if you go with that rule Time Off = Time On + PCT,you will lose all of your's gains that you have from your;s cycle and you will go back to the point that you have strarted

**thegodfather** · 10-07-2007, 09:37 AM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

if you go with that rule Time Off = Time On + PCT,you will lose all of your's gains that you have from your;s cycle and you will go back to the point that you have strarted

You do not know what you are talking about. There I said it. Bro, you are putting your health at risk by cycling the way that you are. On this board we preech about responsible steroid use , and you are abusing them, a perfect example of what the media would use to attack our community.

You will NOT lose all of your gains if you continue to diet correctly and lift properly during&after your PCT.

Onto the point of Leydig cell densensitization. Im going to break this down to you in laymans terms so you can understand. Your Leydig cells have receptors on them. When you flood them with HCG , they say ok, there is a lot of HCG so I do not need as many receptors on the outside of my cell membrane, let me pull them in for now as they're really useless because of the abundance of HCG circulating. So now the problem becomes, you've shot mega doses of HCG more than the cell would ever have been exposed to. Now that you are not shooting HCG, there are minimal amounts of HCG however the receptors are still pulled in. It takes time for the cells to realize that it needs to move its receptors to the outside of the cell membrane so that it can start to take up HCG again. So, you have to give it time, do not shoot anymore HCG.

Finally, until you can be more responsible and exercise more personal discipline please reconsider the use of these powerful hormones and stick to creatine until you feel you can safely&responsibly use these drugs.

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-08-2007, 04:38 AM

thanks bro

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-08-2007, 04:47 AM

so what's your'a advice?to wait something like 6weeks and then try to do another pct bu t with low doses of hcg like 500ui/day.no?or what it is your's advice?

**SHORTANDSQUATTY** · 10-08-2007, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

so what's your'a advice?to wait something like 6weeks and then try to do another pct bu t with low doses of hcg like 500ui/day.no?or what it is your's advice?

Hey bro, you look very young in the picture, early 20's at best. My advise to you would be to stop everything except continue with PCT for at least eight weeks and then make an appt to see an Endocrinologist to get ALL your hormonal levels checked. Once (if) everything returns to normal then do a little more homework and go at the cycles slower. I have seen patients like you in their 30's who have done numerous high dose cycles and they unfortunately have completely shut down their systems and can not have children. Don't make the same mistake they have.
ShortandSquatty

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-08-2007, 09:38 AM

that's true brother!

**thegodfather** · 10-08-2007, 01:17 PM

Originally Posted by SHORTANDSQUATTY

Hey bro, you look very young in the picture, early 20's at best. My advise to you would be to stop everything except continue with PCT for at least eight weeks and then make an appt to see an Endocrinologist to get ALL your hormonal levels checked. Once (if) everything returns to normal then do a little more homework and go at the cycles slower. I have seen patients like you in their 30's who have done numerous high dose cycles and they unfortunately have completely shut down their systems and can not have children. Don't make the same mistake they have.
ShortandSquatty

Please post a study from a peer reviewed journal which can show any evidence of perminant HPTA suppression from the sole use of exogenous hormones.

**bogdan84uzy** · 10-08-2007, 02:38 PM

what you want to say?that the use of testosteron cannot supress the hpta forever??

**thegodfather** · 10-09-2007, 12:10 PM

Originally Posted by bogdan84uzy

what you want to say?that the use of testosteron cannot supress the hpta forever??

Exactly...

**305GUY** · 10-09-2007, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by SHORTANDSQUATTY

I have seen patients like you in their 30's who have done numerous high dose cycles and they unfortunately have completely shut down their systems and can not have children. Don't make the same mistake they have.