1st cycle. 1st pct. please help me out! :D

**wickid1111** · 08-27-2008, 01:34 PM

6'2
23 yo
14% bf
190lbs

doing test e 10 week. if i decide around week 5 im doin good on the test i will add mast for the last 1/2 of the cycle.

need somone to set me up a pct please.

before i read alot i picked up arimidex 30ml with my test so i would like to use this in my cycle and pct. what else should i get and how should i run it. i know how to run the adex

thnx!

**Swifto** · 08-27-2008, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by wickid1111

6'2
23 yo
14% bf
190lbs

doing test e 10 week. if i decide around week 5 im doin good on the test i will add mast for the last 1/2 of the cycle.

need somone to set me up a pct please.

before i read alot i picked up arimidex 30ml with my test so i would like to use this in my cycle and pct. what else should i get and how should i run it. i know how to run the adex

thnx!

Read the sticky's and read up in the Educational Forum.

**wickid1111** · 08-27-2008, 02:50 PM

i have but all i see is nolva but adex shouldnt be run with nolva i was wondering what to run with adex

**Jfew44** · 08-27-2008, 03:53 PM

I wouldn't add the mast no matter how well you're doin on test. First cycle bro, no need to get too crazy. You'll make great gains if your diet is on track.

**wickid1111** · 08-27-2008, 10:25 PM

this is what i was thinkin....

wk 1-3 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 3-5 Clomid 25mg/ED

wk 1-5
Arimidex 0.5mg/ED
b12 1cc/EOD

still confused though. i keep seeing dont use nolva with adex. is clomid a good replacement for nola and can be used with adex?

also is clomid otc?

**Swifto** · 08-28-2008, 04:17 AM

Originally Posted by wickid1111

this is what i was thinkin....

wk 1-3 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 3-5 Clomid 25mg/ED

wk 1-5
Arimidex 0.5mg/ED
b12 1cc/EOD

still confused though. i keep seeing dont use nolva with adex. is clomid a good replacement for nola and can be used with adex?

also is clomid otc?

Clomid is better than Nolva for PCT. Thats my opinoin anyway. All the research points in Clomid's direction.

Use the Arimidex on your cycle at 0.5mg/ED or EOD. Then you souldnt really need to use an AI during PCT. Clomid/Nolva will suffice.

wk 1-3 Clomid 50mg/ED
wk 3-6 Clomid 25mg/ED
wk 1-6 Nolva 20mg/ED*

*Or Torm or Raloxifene. Tormifene is a very good compound at starting up the HPTA, if you can get it? My PCT is Torm + Clomid (next one I'm using).

**"Maximus"** · 08-28-2008, 07:34 AM

I agree w/ swift about the clomid's performance; just take it in low milgrams. However, Clomid is tougher on the liver than Nolva is... thus, why some of us advice the Nolva route. To combat Liver toxicity, just get some milkthistle???... well you get the idea.

**Swifto** · 08-28-2008, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by "Maximus"

I agree w/ swift about the clomid's performance; just take it in low milgrams. However, Clomid is tougher on the liver than Nolva is... thus, why some of us advice the Nolva route. To combat Liver toxicity, just get some milkthistle???... well you get the idea.

Nolva is more toxic than Clomid is in more ways than one. There both carcinogenic, although it seems Nolva wins this one.

There both occular toxic, although many think Clomid is worse.

More reserach has been done on males taking Clomid. Therefore (one of many reasons) its my choice, in regards to Clomid vs. Nolva.

In terms of toxicity, I think Nolva is the most toxic, then Clomid, then Torm, then Ralox.

**"Maximus"** · 08-28-2008, 01:23 PM

Originally Posted by Swifto

Nolva is more toxic than Clomid is in more ways than one. There both carcinogenic, although it seems Nolva wins this one.

There both occular toxic, although many think Clomid is worse.

More reserach has been done on males taking Clomid. Therefore (one of many reasons) its my choice, in regards to Clomid vs. Nolva.

In terms of toxicity, I think Nolva is the most toxic, then Clomid, then Torm, then Ralox.

Not questioning your authority on the subject... can you submit proof to back up these statements you just made?

I understand how data/research reports can be get outdated pretty fast, but last time I read on the Nolva vs. Clomid... true, both are carcinogens, elevate liver levels, etc... but the report concluded that Clomid was more toxic, overall. However, the same report concluded that Clomid was more potent or yield better results when compared to long term use of a tomoxifen -like Nolva- in a 5yrs study, involving cancer patients.

Thanks, Max

**"Maximus"** · 08-28-2008, 01:24 PM

I will get that report for ya... give me few hrs. I like this type of arguments because it benefits everyone, so don't take this in a negative way mate.

**Swifto** · 08-28-2008, 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by "Maximus"

Not questioning your authority on the subject... can you submit proof to back up these statements you just made?

I understand how data/research reports can be get outdated pretty fast, but last time I read on the Nolva vs. Clomid... true, both are carcinogens, elevate liver levels, etc... but the report concluded that Clomid was more toxic, overall. However, the same report concluded that Clomid was more potent or yield better results when compared to long term use of a tomoxifen -like Nolva- in a 5yrs study, involving cancer patients.

Thanks, Max

Look at some of the research done on Clomid and its use treating hypogondal males. Many of the studies show positive results (increase in LH/FSH/T) in a number of days/weeks, when compared to Nolva, which is weeks/months.

Its an Endo's first port of call when treating hypogonadism, Nolva isnt.

I cant post every study on Clomid, then every study on Nolva, its a tuff one to "prove", but one can formulate an opinoin based on their own reserach or the research available. There are more studies done on males when treating hypogonadism than Nolva, simple. Look and see.

I gathered my opinoin by doing my own research, reading studies/forums etc...

If you want me to prove it, look at the research.

**Swifto** · 08-28-2008, 01:58 PM

Here's a decent example of Clomid vs. Nolva. Very very good thread.

http://www.mind and muscle.net/forum/index.php?showtopic=28394

Join spaces.

**thehalfbreed** · 08-29-2008, 07:34 PM

helps w my question too, 5 11', 157 lbs, 10.2%bf, 21 y.o.. starting my first cycle of deca /test e. a week. and plan on using nolva during the cycle(and a-dex if i could find some). so i guess this particular pct being described will suffice for me also?? whats everyones take on the anthony roberts pct?? too much for a first cycle, or any suggestions?