no clomid only nolvadex

[slugtastic]

just wondering if u can use nolvadex with out clomid I thought I had some coming but it turned out it was more nolva just a different name, I have nolvadex arimidex , clen and man fuel( tribulus) my cycle was weak
300 test e a week
250 eq aweek
300 masteron a week

I'm trying to get clomid but it looks like it might be pct time before I can get them..... Will I be alright and how much should I use

[WARMachine]

I would get the Clomid at any cost.

It does things Nolva cannot.

btw, Trib = garbage.

[MercuryEvo]

I would get the Clomid at any cost.

It does things Nolva cannot.

btw, Trib = garbage.

just curious... After doing some research and seeing the sticky in this forum about PCT, why isnt Nolvadex better then clomid? The thread titled "PCT by steroids .com" seems to imply this and here the excerpt from that thread regarding it. Any insight is greatly appreciated War Machine, I know you know your stuff

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (35)It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG (more on that later) (36)(37). The increase in testosterone Nolvadex can give someone with a dysfunctional is basically that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Why don’t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH
(Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex.

[Testomaster]

Clomid and Nolvadex act almost the same, I've tried both. The only difference is that Clomid can give u sexual problems while Nolvadex not !

Get some proviron , it will help preventing lack of libido during PCT.

[slugtastic]

yea I read the same thread about it being the better of the 2, I still am trying to get clomid some 1 told me about a site lion.. Will I still be alright with just nolva , clen ??? I feel like a complete rookie I had hcg but swaped it for nolva thinking I was getting clomid from my mate but it was genox (nolvadex )

[slugtastic]

Another thing my source has said he has primobolan for bridging .. Ever heard of this working.. In the right up on primobolan it said it was no good.... My mate said use it for the 2-3 weeks before I start pct???? Any heard of this???

[LexusIS09]

I'm not sure what these guys are talking about.

You will recover 100% ABSOLUTELY fine with just running nolvadex for PCT.

I'm living proof you can use it as I've recovered with just nolva. Run it for at 40 / 40 / 20 / 20 / 20. (I like to give myself another week on it to ensure recovery)

I hate clomid, and refuse to run it, because of the weird sex problems it creates, and also the fact it turns you into a woman! F*ck. I've never been so emotional in my life, it was terrible. hah.

Get your blood tested about a month after PCT and see if you're recovering your natty-test levels for yourself..

[slugtastic]

I'm not sure what these guys are talking about.

You will recover 100% ABSOLUTELY fine with just running nolvadex for PCT.

I'm living proof you can use it as I've recovered with just nolva. Run it for at 40 / 40 / 20 / 20 / 20. (I like to give myself another week on it to ensure recovery)

I hate clomid, and refuse to run it, because of the weird sex problems it creates, and also the fact it turns you into a woman! F*ck. I've never been so emotional in my life, it was terrible. hah.

Get your blood tested about a month after PCT and see if you're recovering your natty-test levels for yourself..

Thanks for the feedback I feel a little better. When u say 40/40/20/20/20 that's 40mgs a day for 2 weeks then 3 weeks an 20 I have plenty so can do the extra week no worries how long after pct do u start again??

[LexusIS09]

Thanks for the feedback I feel a little better. When u say 40/40/20/20/20 that's 40mgs a day for 2 weeks then 3 weeks an 20 I have plenty so can do the extra week no worries how long after pct do u start again??

Yes, that's exactly how you'd run it.

Time off cycle is determined generally by this formula:

time on cycle + PCT = time off.

.... So since you were using EQ / Test-Enan, which are long compounds, I'm going to assume you were on for probably about 3 months (12 weeks)

So time off should = about 4 1/2 - 5 months off gear completely.

[slugtastic]

that's a long time off.... I thought I would be back on in like 2 months but I guess u need a break... Won't u lose gains in that time??

[LexusIS09]

Won't u lose gains in that time??

You will obviously lose some gains. But you should be able to keep at least 50% of your gains post cycle.... just continue to EAT, EAT, EAT (people always forget this) and continue to train HARD everyday.

If you lose < 50% of your gains, then your diet needs a lot of work.

[WARMachine]

Its like the blind leading the fvckin blind in this thread....

Clomid and Nolvadex act almost the same, I've tried both. The only difference is that Clomid can give u sexual problems while Nolvadex not !

Get some proviron, it will help preventing lack of libido during PCT.

Proviron is basically a mild DHT derived androgen, it's so mild that it's often ran in PCT to help with libido issues as it will not cause suppresion of the HPTA, it also has some mild anti e properties. But i wouldnt run it at a dose above 25mgs in PCT.

Reguardless however, its not gonna make a large difference in restoring the HPTA in the way SERMs do. (I would like to add that PCT doesnt restart your natural test production, as many ppl who get bloods done on a regular basis can attest to. It can take months after PCT (or even years before full HPTA function is restored) and only in part in some cases.
The idea of time on + PCT = time off is a sound one, but in truth, even that amount of time off is insufficient in many cases to restore full HPTA function)

I'm not sure what these guys are talking about.

You will recover 100% ABSOLUTELY fine with just running nolvadex for PCT.

I'm living proof you can use it as I've recovered with just nolva. Run it for at 40 / 40 / 20 / 20 / 20. (I like to give myself another week on it to ensure recovery)

I hate clomid, and refuse to run it, because of the weird sex problems it creates, and also the fact it turns you into a woman! F*ck. I've never been so emotional in my life, it was terrible. hah.

Get your blood tested about a month after PCT and see if you're recovering your natty-test levels for yourself..

It really depends bro. Can you recover fully with Nolva only? Sure. Its possible.

Same question now. Can you recover fully with NO PCT? Sure. Its possible.

The fact is, Clomid does things that Nolvadex cannot. Scroll down for more information.


Now i suppose its your lucky day bud. Im going to give you guys a sneak peak to the additions im going to be making to my Sticky. In case you guys havent read it, i suggest you do.

Gyno Prevention, Gyno Treatment, and Letro Reversals Explained!
"Estrogen Control, Treatment, and PCT by WARMachine"

In response to OP.

Now newbies are starting to ask, "Arent Nolva and Clomid both SERMS? Why do i need both?". Well im glad you guys asked that.

There has been far more research on Clomid for male hypogonadism and infertility, than Tamoxifen . Now Tamoxifen does do its job, (that being increases in the Leutenizing Hormone), but I prefer Clomid at a low dose, than Tamoxifen. Anthony Roberts prefered Tamox and got horrible sides from Clomid, hence is biased view towards Tamox over Clomid in PCT. Clomid doesnt exert the majority of its emotional, vision and skin issues on doses of 50-100mg/ED. Problems seem to be encountered when users exceed 150mg/ED.

Despite the ''PCT by Steroid .com" A.K.A Pinnacle's PCT, where he states the following.

Nolvadex also has some important features for the steroid using athlete. In hypogonadic and infertile men given nolvadex, increases in the serum levels of LH, FSH, and most importantly, testosterone were all observed (35)It can also block a bit of estrogen in the pituitary, which is a great benefit when used with HCG (more on that later) (36)(37). The increase in testosterone Nolvadex can give someone with a dysfunctional is basically that 20mgs of Nolvadex will raise your testosterone levels about 150% (6)...Why don’t we use Clomid, another SERM? Well, basically because it takes much more to do the same thing. In comparison, it would require 150mgs of Clomid to accomplish that type of elevation in
testosterone, but Nolvadex also has the added benefit of significantly increasing the LH (Leutenizing Hormone) response to LHRH (LH-releasing hormone) (6). This most likely indicates some kind of upregulation of the LH-receptors due to the anti-estrogenic effect Nolvadex has at the pituitary. Although both Nolvadex and Clomid are both SERMs, they are actually quite different. As you already know, Nolvadex is highly anti-estrogenic at the hypothalamus and pituitary, while Clomid exhibits weak estrogenic activity at the pituitary (7), which as you can guess, is less than ideal. It should be avoided for the PCT I’m suggesting…and in fact, avoided in general…it’s simply not as good as Nolvadex.
Need I even add that the 150mgs of Clomid you need to get the hormonal increase experienced with 20mgs of Nolvadex is much more expensive? So lets dump the Clomid…and no, using it along with Nolvadex will provide no “synergy” that I’ve ever seen in any relevant study."

Some of this is simply not true. And imo, is garbage. Clomid can do things that Nolvadex cannot.

Case in point is the following. Taken from Pheeno's PCT Sticky.

"Now IMO, selective estrogen receptor modulators(SERMs) such as Clomiphine and Tamoxifen are selective to which tissues they bind too. Clomid being selective to the suprapituitary, while Tamox is selective to breast, bone, and liver ERs. I've come to this conclusion based on the comparison of studies on both SERMs. In every study showing benefit to HPTA from tamoxifin, the duration of the administration is 3-12months(This includes studies cited by William Llewellyn in his Nolva vs Clomid article). In studies showing levels of LH, FSH, and Testosterone checked after short durations of tamox, they were either insignificant, or their was an actual drop. I believe this is because
tamox selectively works at the mammery(as well as bone and liver), thus taking longer for LH stimulation to occur. With clomid, benefit to gonadotrophin concentrations, LH, FSH, and serum testosterone can be seen in short periods of 2-6wks. Because of the apparent selective
nature of the two, and given our usual PCT duration, clomid is by far superior at LH stimulation than Nolva. Now both is the wise choice for a couple of reasons:

1. Nolva acts as the preventive measure to the estrogen flux
occured PC while clomid is the primary LH stimulator(Even more so in the case an AI is not used).

2. If your running a longer PCT, clomid needs to be discontinued after a while as it has been shown to desensitize GnRH, this due, IMO, to it's selective nature to the suprapituitary. In the longer forms of PCT, the clomid will be phased out, leaving Nolva and L-dex

Follow thus far?

Here is yet another case and point.

In just 7 days of Clomid use at 100mgs ED is enough to raise LH and FSH by as much as 50%. You will need nolva also, as the point of these serms is to block estrogen receptors in the HPTA to fool it, and to tell the pituitary to start producing it's own LH and FSH.




Now, do you boys follow along?

Like i said, i will be adding this, amoungst other things to my sticky in the near future, hopefully by the end of today...

[Swifto]

Oi!

There has been far more research on Clomid for male hypogonadism and infertility, than Tamoxifen. Now Tamoxifen does do its job, (that being increases in the Leutenizing Hormone), but I prefer Clomid at a low dose, than Tamoxifen. Anthony Roberts prefered Tamox and got horrible sides from Clomid, hence is biased view towards Tamox over Clomid in PCT. Clomid doesnt exert the majority of its emotional, vision and skin issues on doses of 50-100mg/ED. Problems seem to be encountered when users exceed 150mg/ED.


Did I write that?!



Recently, I read a study stating there was NO increase in LH from Tamoxifen treatment. I'll try and find it.

I think Clomid is better, but others will disagree. It seems Clomid will increase LH,FSH and T more and Tamox will increase the bodies sensitivity to LH, something Clomid dosesnt do aswell.

But...

You should be used Toremifene Citrate as your main SERM in PCT anyhow. And low dose Clomid (my preference) or Tamox.

[jfalco]

so you're saying clomid is better than nolva right?
















sorry couldn't resist.

[WARMachine]

Oi!

There has been far more research on Clomid for male hypogonadism and infertility, than Tamoxifen. Now Tamoxifen does do its job, (that being increases in the Leutenizing Hormone), but I prefer Clomid at a low dose, than Tamoxifen. Anthony Roberts prefered Tamox and got horrible sides from Clomid, hence is biased view towards Tamox over Clomid in PCT. Clomid doesnt exert the majority of its emotional, vision and skin issues on doses of 50-100mg/ED. Problems seem to be encountered when users exceed 150mg/ED.


Did I write that?!



Recently, I read a study stating there was NO increase in LH from Tamoxifen treatment. I'll try and find it.

I think Clomid is better, but others will disagree. It seems Clomid will increase LH,FSH and T more and Tamox will increase the bodies sensitivity to LH, something Clomid dosesnt do aswell.

But...

You should be used Toremifene Citrate as your main SERM in PCT anyhow. And low dose Clomid (my preference) or Tamox.

Lol Oi is right...

Im working on Toremifene.

Still havent learned enough, though honestly, what ive read about it, im sold.

[LexusIS09]

Its like the blind leading the fvckin blind in this thread....

you can't be serious?

dude, look at his cycle. this cycle was essentially a TRT dose of test & an EXTREMELY low dose of EQ that probably did nothing to his body. He could easily run nolvadex for 5 weeks and recover without a doubt. Your example is pretty ridiculous as well:

"Same question now. Can you recover fully with NO PCT? Sure. Its possible."

.... No sh*t man. You can obviously recover without a PCT, but you'll be lethargic and walking around with an extremely low free-test level for the next 4 months.

IMO the only reason clomid and nolvadex are promoted SOO insanely hard on this particular website forum is because they're sold together on AR-R ... aka more profit. I realize clomid & nolva can work well in concert together to enable recovery. But in most instances the use of both are completely unnecessary. Just my 0.02. Hope I didn't offend anyone

[8iron]

Oi!



You should be used Toremifene Citrate as your main SERM in PCT anyhow. And low dose Clomid (my preference) or Tamox.

Great stuff war and swifto..........as always a question....swifto what is the low dose you recommend? 50mgs?

[Swifto]

Great stuff war and swifto..........as always a question....swifto what is the low dose you recommend? 50mgs?

50mg for 2 weeks, 25mg for 3 weeks.

You could, if you dont get sides, run 100mg/ED for the first 3-5 days IMHO, then back down to 50mg and 25mg/ED.

[Swifto]

you can't be serious?

dude, look at his cycle. this cycle was essentially a TRT dose of test & an EXTREMELY low dose of EQ that probably did nothing to his body. He could easily run nolvadex for 5 weeks and recover without a doubt. Your example is pretty ridiculous as well:

"Same question now. Can you recover fully with NO PCT? Sure. Its possible."

.... No sh*t man. You can obviously recover without a PCT, but you'll be lethargic and walking around with an extremely low free-test level for the next 4 months.

IMO the only reason clomid and nolvadex are promoted SOO insanely hard on this particular website forum is because they're sold together on AR-R ... aka more profit. I realize clomid & nolva can work well in concert together to enable recovery. But in most instances the use of both are completely unnecessary. Just my 0.02. Hope I didn't offend anyone

No...

Do your own research and done take Anthony Conner's word for it due to his profile.

Some Endo's suggest Clomid, others Tamox. There is, however, far more research done on Clomid, on hypogondal males.

[WARMachine]

you can't be serious?

dude, look at his cycle. this cycle was essentially a TRT dose of test & an EXTREMELY low dose of EQ that probably did nothing to his body. He could easily run nolvadex for 5 weeks and recover without a doubt. Your example is pretty ridiculous as well:

"Same question now. Can you recover fully with NO PCT? Sure. Its possible."

.... No sh*t man. You can obviously recover without a PCT, but you'll be lethargic and walking around with an extremely low free-test level for the next 4 months.

IMO the only reason clomid and nolvadex are promoted SOO insanely hard on this particular website forum is because they're sold together on AR-R ... aka more profit. I realize clomid & nolva can work well in concert together to enable recovery. But in most instances the use of both are completely unnecessary. Just my 0.02. Hope I didn't offend anyone

Im 100% serious. And you say my example is ridiculous?

Im not offended at all. If you wanna just parot around without any kind of research at all, thats cool.

But dont expect guys like me and Swifto to sit around and parot the words of others. We instead choose to research on our own and then make an informed decision.

No offense... JMO.