Major PCT confusion!

**gbrice75** · 03-25-2010, 02:35 PM

I will be running my first cycle (Test E and Dbol ) starting May 1st. I have been doing tons of research, and still have some time left to get it right. I didn't think PCT would be the tough part, but I am hearing way too much conflicting info.

Clomid - As I understand it, Clomid is used strictly post-cycle and it's primary purpose is to 'kickstart' the body's natural test production. I think i'm clear on this - I didn't read anything stating that clomid would be of any use on-cycle.

Nolvadex - This would also be taken post-cycle to combat aromatase symptoms like gyno. However, I have seen some people/articles that suggest using Nolva on-cycle - what would be the point? From what I understand it's not really an AI?

Liquidex/Arimidex - This is a true AI, and would be taken on cycle to counter bloating, gyno, etc. Wouldn't THIS be what I want to take on-cycle instead of Nolvadex? Then, Post-Cycle would be Nolva but NOT L-dex/A-dex? However, I read on AR-R that it can be used in place of Clomid - this makes no sense to me since I read Clomid is not an AI, but simply jump starts natural test production.... ???

My point is I want to understand completely which of these (if any) are interchangable, which I should take when, etc. My research so far has only led to further confusion. There are many 'canned' cycle stacks you can find online, but I don't want to just take some random person's suggestion. Please help!

**tboney** · 03-25-2010, 02:46 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

I will be running my first cycle (Test E and Dbol ) starting May 1st. I have been doing tons of research, and still have some time left to get it right. I didn't think PCT would be the tough part, but I am hearing way too much conflicting info.

Clomid - As I understand it, Clomid is used strictly post-cycle and it's primary purpose is to 'kickstart' the body's natural test production. I think i'm clear on this - I didn't read anything stating that clomid would be of any use on-cycle. Yes, take it post cycle.

Nolvadex - This would also be taken post-cycle to combat aromatase symptoms like gyno. However, I have seen some people/articles that suggest using Nolva on-cycle - what would be the point? From what I understand it's not really an AI? It will help with some gyno symptoms. Take it post cycle. It will take care of any estro rebound from the use of an AI that could cause some gyno. It also does an excellent job at restoring the hpta.

Liquidex/Arimidex - This is a true AI, and would be taken on cycle to counter bloating, gyno, etc. Wouldn't THIS be what I want to take on-cycle instead of Nolvadex? Yes Then, Post-Cycle would be Nolva but NOT L-dex/A-dex? Yes However, I read on AR-R that it can be used in place of Clomid - this makes no sense to me since I read Clomid is not an AI, but simply jump starts natural test production.... ??? Clomid and nolva are both serms. They both help restore the hpta but they do just slightly different ways. Taking both during pct is your best bet.

My point is I want to understand completely which of these (if any) are interchangable, which I should take when, etc. My research so far has only led to further confusion. There are many 'canned' cycle stacks you can find online, but I don't want to just take some random person's suggestion. Please help!

For a first cycle run test....... Refer to the bolds..

**gbrice75** · 03-25-2010, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by tboney

For a first cycle run test....... Refer to the bolds..

Thanks - based on what your saying, i'd do Liquidex on-cycle (only if gyno symptoms occur, or take .25mg ED just to be safe?), and combo clomid and nolva for PCT, correct?

**tboney** · 03-25-2010, 03:02 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Thanks - based on what your saying, i'd do Liquidex on-cycle (only if gyno symptoms occur, or take .25mg ED just to be safe?), and combo clomid and nolva for PCT, correct?

How old are you? If you are going to use test only then I would not take an AI unless I started to get estro sides. ie, gyno symptoms, bloating etc. If you do get these sides then start the adex at a dose of .25 eod. If you are still experiencing the estro sides then increase it.

Again, I would just run the test for your first cycle....

**gbrice75** · 03-25-2010, 06:24 PM

I'm 34. Just about everyone I've talked to suggested running the test e + dbol - cycle would be:

weeks 1-12 - 500mg Test e/week
weeks 1-4 - 30mg Dbol/day

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest dropping the dbol?

Regarding PCT, I hear what you're saying - I just don't want it to be too late - in other words, i'd like to practice some 'preventative maintenance', but I suppose it doesn't work that way.

So we stick with the Clomid + Nolva for PCT, and keep L-dex on hand while on-cycle and keep an eye on bloating/water retention, gyno, etc. Correct?

**Bio-Active** · 03-25-2010, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

I'm 34. Just about everyone I've talked to suggested running the test e + dbol - cycle would be:

weeks 1-12 - 500mg Test e/week
weeks 1-4 - 30mg Dbol/day

Out of curiosity, why would you suggest dropping the dbol?

Regarding PCT, I hear what you're saying - I just don't want it to be too late - in other words, i'd like to practice some 'preventative maintenance', but I suppose it doesn't work that way.

So we stick with the Clomid + Nolva for PCT, and keep L-dex on hand while on-cycle and keep an eye on bloating/water retention, gyno, etc. Correct?

Drop the Dbol from your first cycle because if you do experience sides you will not know which compound is causing them.

**stevey_6t9** · 03-25-2010, 07:43 PM

you shud be right to keep the dbol , imo i wouldnt run it though.

and yes nolva/clomid for pct and a-dex for on cycle.

**JBarron** · 03-26-2010, 10:18 AM

Good thread this cleared alot up for me as well. Not meaning to hijack but I have a question. Say one were to be fairly acne prone naturally, I read that aromasin (similiar to a-dex?) is good to keep acne at bay while on a cycle?

So if one were to keep aromasin on hand during cycle would it be similar to keeping a-dex on hand, except it would help prevent acne?

Or does Adex have the same effects in preventing acne?

Please tell me if i'm just full of shiit and I read alot of bullocks?

**gbrice75** · 03-26-2010, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by jim230027

Drop the Dbol from your first cycle because if you do experience sides you will not know which compound is causing them.

Would a test only cycle be less than productive? I'm just worried about spending upwards of $200 for lack-luster results.

**tboney** · 03-26-2010, 10:40 AM

Originally Posted by JBarron

Good thread this cleared alot up for me as well. Not meaning to hijack but I have a question. Say one were to be fairly acne prone naturally, I read that aromasin (similiar to a-dex?) is good to keep acne at bay while on a cycle?

So if one were to keep aromasin on hand during cycle would it be similar to keeping a-dex on hand, except it would help prevent acne?

Or does Adex have the same effects in preventing acne?

Please tell me if i'm just full of shiit and I read alot of bullocks?

Now this is just my understanding.... I could be wrong.

If you have acne independent of using aas' then it can likely get worse on cycle due to the typical androgen related side effects.

If you dont have acne off cycle then its really a crap shoot as to whether or not you will get some on cycle. Again I am speaking of acne that is specifically precipitated by the use of aas'.

now.. if you are on cycle and your estrogen gets to high this can also result in acne. My point is that I dont think that adex or aromasin helps with acne except in cases where the acne is brought on by high estro.

Am I making sense?? For some reason, Im having trouble expressing myself clearly today.. Must need more sleep!

**JBarron** · 03-26-2010, 10:41 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Would a test only cycle be less than productive? I'm just worried about spending upwards of $200 for lack-luster results.

No a test only cycle ran right can have great results, granted i've never ran one, but from what I've learned it should be the base of just about any cycle.

The only thing is Test e will take maybe 3 to 4 weeks before you start to feel it because the ester is longer.

i myself am planning on taking test prop when I cycle, the ester is shorter and it kicks in around 2 to 3 days after injecting, yet injections will have to be more frequent to keep blood levels stable.

**JBarron** · 03-26-2010, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by tboney

Now this is just my understanding.... I could be wrong.

If you have acne independent of using aas' then it can likely get worse on cycle due to the typical androgen related side effects.

If you dont have acne off cycle then its really a crap shoot as to whether or not you will get some on cycle. Again I am speaking of acne that is specifically precipitated by the use of aas'.

now.. if you are on cycle and your estrogen gets to high this can also result in acne. My point is that I dont think that adex or aromasin helps with acne except in cases where the acne is brought on by high estro.

Am I making sense?? For some reason, Im having trouble expressing myself clearly today.. Must need more sleep!

No no your making sense.

**Bio-Active** · 03-26-2010, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by gbrice75

Would a test only cycle be less than productive? I'm just worried about spending upwards of $200 for lack-luster results.

I believe a Test E only cycle for your first run would be perfect. With Dbol you will put on more weight but most of it will be water weight and will just come off after discontinuing The Dbol anyway. Get your diet dialed in before you cycle and your results should be amazing!

**gbrice75** · 03-26-2010, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by jim230027

I believe a Test E only cycle for your first run would be perfect. With Dbol you will put on more weight but most of it will be water weight and will just come off after discontinuing The Dbol anyway. Get your diet dialed in before you cycle and your results should be amazing!

Thanks guys, it seems like the popular opinion here is to run the Test E only. I'm already commited to buying the dbol and can't back out now, but I can always keep it on hand for a future cycle.

If the dbol puts on mostly water weight and just comes off after discontinuing usage, why is the Test E / Dbol such a popular stack? Even better, why is Dbol so popular in general since it doesn't seem to leave you with anything permanant?