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  1. #1
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    [HELP] Gyno reversal (Letro protocol) + PCT

    Hello folks

    My first post so i am sorry if its wrongly done.

    My name is niel - 26 years old - 220 lbs - lifting from 6 years - clean diet - training regularly.
    first cycle was basic nandro + test 500 + dana gained good lean mass and maintained decent amount.

    second cycle (currently ending) i did a short 6 week anadrol (50-75-75-75mg) + test P 600 mg/w
    amazing mind boggling gains however most is water i know (will do another thread post to share my first time experience)

    and now to what went wrong - around the start of 3rd week, i my left nippy got a little tender but i didnt catch the early gyno symptom and now theres a small lump under the left nip, i guess my AI wasnt the real deal -

    my last pin was done on saturday and i am on letro protocol from the past 5 days and its going good i would say, my nip nops dont hurt or arent tender as they were before so i would say its working, i got a 30 day supply just to be sure so i plan to run it till 7th july atleast (unless my gyno lump under my left nip is gone before the date)

    so my last pin was on saturday, just wanted to know when to start PCT since i am on letro as well, which is HCG +clomid (no nolva cuz letro + nolva = big no no) i read the stickies where it said anadrol pct start within 24 hours ad test P start after 4 days. i am just consfused about how to fit the PCT in with the letro protocol.

    after my letro protocol ends i will start nolva to help stop the estrogen rebound

    just wanted to know how i should proceed with the HCG + clomid schedule. (should it start now or after my letro protocol ends?) (dosing of HCG + clomid ?)

    please dont flame me - at this point i just want my gyno to go and get my body to homeostasis.

    thank you

  2. #2
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    What is your height, weight and body fat percentage? How do you plan on dosing the clomid?

    Stop taking letro right now. Letro is a Strong AI it will likely crash your e2, and is not good at reversing gyno. One needs a SERM for gyno treatment. Raloxifene is preferred but you would should be alright with nolva.

    PCT for test p begins 3 days after last pin and should include both nolva and clomid. Hcg should be used on cycle in order to prserve leydig cell functionality. Hcg is repressive to natural LH production and should not be taken during PCT.

    If you have nolva now then you should begin taking it at 40 mg/day for the first week and 20 mg/week thereafter until your lump has subsided. Like I said earlier begin taking clomid along side the nolva in 3 days.

  3. #3
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    thanks a lot for replying,

    i dont mean any disrespect mate, however on these very forums i read letro works great for lump reductions and nolva on the other hand stops the gyno from growing. there was this post made by a guy saying letro worked for him too and that he will updating reguarly.

    wwwukmuscle(dot)co(dot)uk/steroid -and-testosterone -information/145873-lovely-letro-gyno-reversal-log.html

    that thread exactly concurs with what i said.

    my height is 5'11 bf at 12% and clomid i plan on going 100/50/50/50

  4. #4
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Nothing saying Letro won't "help" a bit. It's just old school and the methodologies today using serms are far better. Really no reason to crash your E on purpose when better methods exist.
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  5. #5
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    I can understand your hesitation because of reading conflicting advise. I promise you that the current information on this forum is 5-10 years ahead of any other forum. Letro, aromasin and arimidex are aromatase inhibitors (AI). An AI should be used on cycle to keep estrogen within range thus preventing gyno from being an issue. Once estrogen rises and gyno occurs your best chance at remission is using a SERM (ralox or nolva).

  6. #6
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    Thanks again mate,

    what do you think i should do next? last pin was on saturday.

    do i start clomid now? dump the letro? a simple yet updated method will be much appreciated!

    thanks a bunch for not flaming, half the threads here end up someone barking at someone else.

    thanks you both!

    ps - will ralox reduce the existing gyno lump?

  7. #7
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    Stop taking the letro. Begin taking nolva 40/20/20/20 and clomid 100/50/50/50. Don't use hcg during PCT. Continue taking 20 mg/day of nolva until your gyno has subsided. This can be a long process lasting anywhere from a few weeks to several months. The sooner one begins SERM treatment the the less time it should take for gyno reversal. If you look at the varroius studies on nolva and ralox treating gyno you will see that ralox has a slightly better recovery rate, but it is more expensive. You've only had gyno for about 4 weeks so I think you be fine with nolva. By the way welcome to the forum!

  8. #8
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    that sounds like a great plan, i was just stalking the forums and read your posts in numerous threads.

    thanks a bunch for helping me out. wont be messing with AAS until i get a good grasp on its powers.

    in all honesty, i dont think this gyno is the result of this cycle alone, i saw the threads you commented on where people had gyno due to which their chest was never symmetrical, MY CASE IS THE SAME! my left nip points a little down and is lumpy. so i reckon its my pre existing gyno has flared up now due to the anadrol cycle.

    mate i dont mean to bshit you or hide my stupidity from you.

    cost is no issue i would defo go for ralox if it works better. please suggest me a ralox protocol along with my PCT to start??

    thanks for the warm welcome!

  9. #9
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    No problem mate. I'm happy to help. It's great to hear you're reading old threads. The recent sticky threads, at the top of the forums, from the last 2-3 years are really great.

    Most people think doing a cycle is simple and no big deal. This is true to some extent, but if you want to do it safely there are many facets involved.

    Start your nolva/comid PCT today as laid out in my last post. If you need a source ralox can be ordered from the site sponsor ar-r in the upper rite hand corner of your browsing window. In the US I usually get my orders within 3 days. When you finish PCT begin taking ralox at 120 mg/day for the first week and 60 mg/day thereafter until your lump has receded.
    Last edited by numbere; 06-12-2015 at 11:41 AM.

  10. #10
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    Great advice from numbere, as usual.
    Op, if you already have nolva just use it.
    Ralox is rated better but it's literally only a percentage point or two.
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  11. #11
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    thanks a lot for the solid advice, i am going to return the letro i have and get some ralox and tamox and start the protocol as you suggested right away!

    i defo agree AAS have many different facets involved to execute a cycle properly which i wasnt aware of but i will be sure to research and consult before going on to the dark side.

    starting my clomid + tamox right away for 4 weeks and then onto ralox!

    just two qs for my general knowledge,

    A) does ralox cause a estrogen rebound too like letro?
    b) why no HCG in PCT?

    thanks a lot to you two. this means a great deal to me!

  12. #12
    kelkel's Avatar
    kelkel is offline HRT Specialist ~ AR-Platinum Elite-Hall of Famer ~ No Source Checks
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    A) No
    B) Because it's suppressive to LH function. Think your HPTA Feedback Loop.
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  13. #13
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    apologies for the late reply!

    was running around collecting the ancillaries !

    started the pct today itself mate,

    just one qs, for how long should i run the other ancillaries ? such as liv 52, calcium and other AAS related ancillaries ??

    thanks!

  14. #14
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    An AI isn't needed during PCT. It would be a good idea to use some form of liver support until everything is finished. Though rare, hepatic effects have been reported after administration of nolva. If you like liver support can be used throughout the year. Liv 52 has been reformulated and is not much more than a herbal supplement. NAC is far superior.

  15. #15
    lazarus229 is offline New Member
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    ok well i dont have NAC at my disposal now mate,

    i am just running clomid + nolva as suggested with liv 52 and post this will start ralox

    although i must admit, nolva is working cuz my nip nops have become smaller as they were really puffy and protruding over tees.

    and also no nip nop pain!

    thanks a lot for everything mate!

  16. #16
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
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    That's fine just source out some NAC when you run your next cycle. It's great to hear you're beginning to feel better!

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