Coming off a 5 year cycle

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Been using/abusing steroids for the past 5 years and don't even gain anymore so I've decided it's time to come off for a while. Been on a gram+ of test a week for 5 years and I'd throw in other compounds every few months but I'd never go less then a gram of steroids per week. Last time I tried to cruise I couldn't take the lethargy and loss of size and strength but I aim to see it out this time and either try to recover my natural levels or get a script for trt. I'd like to do everything I can to retain as much muscle as possible. I will be discontinuing training mma and concentrate on only weight lifting for a few months. It's been so long since I've done a pct i could use some advice. I was thinking 4-6 weeks of Nolvadex and clomid. And using some decent dosages of hcg aswell. Training 5x a week but shorter sessions and switching to a recompense diet. Any and all advice is appreciated. I will be getting my test levels checked after pct and then deciding whether to go the trt route then which is probably the likely outcome.

[Obs]

Been using/abusing steroids for the past 5 years and don't even gain anymore so I've decided it's time to come off for a while. Been on a gram+ of test a week for 5 years and I'd throw in other compounds every few months but I'd never go less then a gram of steroids per week. Last time I tried to cruise I couldn't take the lethargy and loss of size and strength but I aim to see it out this time and either try to recover my natural levels or get a script for trt. I'd like to do everything I can to retain as much muscle as possible. I will be discontinuing training mma and concentrate on only weight lifting for a few months. It's been so long since I've done a pct i could use some advice. I was thinking 4-6 weeks of Nolvadex and clomid. And using some decent dosages of hcg aswell. Training 5x a week but shorter sessions and switching to a recompense diet. Any and all advice is appreciated. I will be getting my test levels checked after pct and then deciding whether to go the trt route then which is probably the likely outcome.

I have no idea man but after five years i can't see your natural level ever coming back online like they should be. There is a power pct program that includes hcg I believe but at this stage I doubt it does a thing for you. I have ran six months and it returned on pct but 5 years? I would be seeking trt personally and that might help with some of the lethargy.
No trying to be crude but I am very curious because I am gonna face this some day; have your testicles gotten smaller? Did you run hcg?

[numbere]

Imo you should follow the same advice given to the OP in the attached thread.

Power PCT Advice.....

[S&S_ShovelHead]

I have no idea man but after five years i can't see your natural level ever coming back online like they should be. There is a power pct program that includes hcg I believe but at this stage I doubt it does a thing for you. I have ran six months and it returned on pct but 5 years? I would be seeking trt personally and that might help with some of the lethargy.
No trying to be crude but I am very curious because I am gonna face this some day; have your testicles gotten smaller? Did you run hcg?

Yea I kind of agree. Before this my levels were around 200 ng/dl aswell. I did not run hcg. Well maybe I'll come off everything long enough for my levels to drop and go get my tests done so I can go on Dr. Prescribed trt.
What do you think, 4 weeks after my last shot of enth?

Might switch to prop also so my shut down isn't as bad either. Think 2 weeks would be enough to get tested after last shot of prop?

[Obs]

I think you are right to do that. The thread mentioned above has a link to the power pct program.

[kelkel]

5 years straight! Holy shit!
What are your current stats?
Love to see a before and after pic.

[Obs]

Yea I kind of agree. Before this my levels were around 200 ng/dl aswell. I did not run hcg . Well maybe I'll come off everything long enough for my levels to drop and go get my tests done so I can go on Dr. Prescribed trt.
What do you think, 4 weeks after my last shot of enth?

Might switch to prop also so my shut down isn't as bad either. Think 2 weeks would be enough to get tested after last shot of prop?

200 is low enough for trt anyway. If kel is saying "holy shit" I would say you are prob screwewd as far as natty levels returning goes. He is the authority on this subject.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

5 years straight! Holy shit!
What are your current stats?
Love to see a before and after pic.

Started at 155 lbs and sitting at 240ish now buy I believe if I blasted and cruised I'd be far better off. I stopped gaining anything significant years ago.

[Obs]

Started at 155 lbs and sitting at 240ish now buy I believe if I blasted and cruised I'd be far better off. I stopped gaining anything significant years ago.

Lol it was worth trt!

[Obs]

Wow!

[S&S_ShovelHead]

200 is low enough for trt anyway. If kel is saying "holy shit" I would say you are prob screwewd as far as natty levels returning goes. He is the authority on this subject.

Should have been, I just had a shitty doctor.

[kelkel]

Shovel you did totally transform yourself. Have you ever had blood work during this time frame?
What issues did you encounter?

Imho the chances of restarting your HPTA are extremely slim but always worth a try. Scally's Power PCT Protocol is what you should implement. Instead of explaining it I'll link you to a thread from a few days ago where Numbere detailed it perfectly.

Power PCT protocol

Let us know how this goes on this thread please. It can be very informative for the members here.

Best of luck Shovel!

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Shovel you did totally transform yourself. Have you ever had blood work during this time frame?
What issues did you encounter?

Imho the chances of restarting your HPTA are extremely slim but always worth a try. Scally's Power PCT Protocol is what you should implement. Instead of explaining it I'll link you to a thread from a few days ago where Numbere detailed it perfectly.

Power PCT protocol

Let us know how this goes on this thread please. It can be very informative for the members here.

Best of luck Shovel!

Just e2 when it was out of control. I've always had e2 issues. Lately I've been having to run huge doses of letro just to keep it in check. Hoping to come off and start fresh with lots of blood work so I can make sure everything is in check before I cycle/blast again. I'll update this thread once I have news.

[kelkel]

Well, you need to run that protocol, wait 8 weeks or so and get full BW. Then make a determination whether TRT is needed with a competent doctor. If it is needed you need to ride it out for 6 months or so to get stable before you cycle again.

Your body seriously needs a break. You may not have visible signs of issues but no doubt there are internal ones.

Be well.

[KINGKONG]

Be ready for size and strength loses..there's no way around that..health should be your long term goal here..remember once you've had it, it comes back very easy..do the pct kel and numbere recommended get the blood work ..you could probably even make further gains with some blasts on your trt in the future..stay healthy and live to fight many more battles!

[Marsoc]

Started at 155 lbs and sitting at 240ish now buy I believe if I blasted and cruised I'd be far better off. I stopped gaining anything significant years ago.

Dang. No offense u look good but 5 years of roids at a gram a week and that's it..seems hardly worth it considering the possibly negative effects etc. .. Im sure you could have achieved that naturally with lots of hard work and dedication plus food and rest.

Edited this part cuz I lack cycle knowledge

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Dang. No offense u look good but 5 years of roids at a gram a week and that's it..seems hardly worth it considering the possibly negative effects etc. .. Im sure you could have achieved that naturally with lots of hard work and dedication plus food and rest.
Plus I heard HCG is for on cycle only to keep the balls going. It's surpressive somnot for pct

Lol at gaining 90 lbs of muscle naturally in 5 years.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Well, you need to run that protocol, wait 8 weeks or so and get full BW. Then make a determination whether TRT is needed with a competent doctor. If it is needed you need to ride it out for 6 months or so to get stable before you cycle again.

Your body seriously needs a break. You may not have visible signs of issues but no doubt there are internal ones.

Be well.

I agree, a serious break is needed and no doubt some damage was done.

[AR's King Silabolin]

Been using/abusing steroids for the past 5 years and don't even gain anymore so I've decided it's time to come off for a while. Been on a gram+ of test a week for 5 years and I'd throw in other compounds every few months but I'd never go less then a gram of steroids per week. Last time I tried to cruise I couldn't take the lethargy and loss of size and strength but I aim to see it out this time and either try to recover my natural levels or get a script for trt. I'd like to do everything I can to retain as much muscle as possible. I will be discontinuing training mma and concentrate on only weight lifting for a few months. It's been so long since I've done a pct i could use some advice. I was thinking 4-6 weeks of Nolvadex and clomid. And using some decent dosages of hcg aswell. LethargyTraining 5x a week but shorter sessions and switching to a recompense diet. Any and all advice is appreciated. I will be getting my test levels checked after pct and then deciding whether to go the trt route then which is probably the likely outcome.

Why does he feel lethargy when he break down to 250 mg. Cause his receptors are so fried that even 250 mg sus ew will just give him a total test below 200?

[AR's King Silabolin]

Dang. No offense u look good but 5 years of roids at a gram a week and that's it..seems hardly worth it considering the possibly negative effects etc. .. Im sure you could have achieved that naturally with lots of hard work and dedication plus food and rest.
Plus I heard HCG is for on cycle only to keep the balls going. It's surpressive somnot for pct

He looks good. Dont think that a 5 years blast is better than a 5 month blast.

[Tovarasu]

Take a look at this guy over here he was in the same situation, 5 years on 1gr EQ/1gr TestE/500mg mast E and as far as i know he kinda recovered, [PCT log] Supertesty PowerPct after 5years On - PCT - UK Muscle Bodybuilding Forum
Good luck !

[kelkel]

Tovarasu it doesn't appear he recovered at all. It seems he got his BW about a week post pct. Normally at this point it would show a hyper-stimulated pituitary response and thus a higher level of testosterone if all things were in order. It's not. Imho he's now destined for HRT.

Unless I'm reading his BW results incorrectly.

[DocToxin8]

5 years. Know the deal all to well.

IMO you could start hcg with a low dose test for some time before you start the PCT protocol outlined. That's just to help your balls a little on the way before u begin the real PCT.
Ideally you'd use Testogel for this, as its virtually non supressive at 50mg a day.

but then again, it is a limit to how long one will torture oneself,
So if you feel ready for the PCT outlined then that motivation counts more than trying to minimize any chance of primary (testicular) hypogonadism by using hcg with test before PCT. Most likely problem is secondary hypogonadism (your hypo or pituitary doesn't fully start up), so in the end, most important thing here is to actually have the drive to accomplish the entire course of PCT.

Best of luck! I'll be interested to hear how this goes.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

UPDATE:

4 weeks will be off test enth @ 750 mg e5/6 days and var @ 70 mg a day. Off all AI'S too.

Libido down. Erections are about the same but I take 5 mg of cialis every 3 day for BP and pumps in gym. Doms much more noticeable. Strength is either up or the same, haven't lost any weight, gained a bit of fat but not much at all. Mood is noticeable better although still lost my temper twice (unusual for me). A bit of anxiety at times but don't feal tired or weak at all. Opposite if anything. Eating more. Training 3-4 days a week at an hour working sets (much less then before). I'm very surprised at what's happening, last time I tried to go off (about 3 years ago) I fealt nothing like this. Not sure if my hormones were all so fucked up that now they're normalizing? I go for a testosterone level check Monday, wanted to test more but the Dr's around here have been less then helpful.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

O and I decided against pct after reviewing my natural levels from a test I had 6+ years ago. Trt I believe is my best option.

[Couchlock]

UPDATE:

4 weeks will be off test enth @ 750 mg e5/6 days and var @ 70 mg a day. Off all AI'S too.

Libido down. Erections are about the same but I take 5 mg of cialis every 3 day for BP and pumps in gym. Doms much more noticeable. Strength is either up or the same, haven't lost any weight, gained a bit of fat but not much at all. Mood is noticeable better although still lost my temper twice (unusual for me). A bit of anxiety at times but don't feal tired or weak at all. Opposite if anything. Eating more. Training 3-4 days a week at an hour working sets (much less then before). I'm very surprised at what's happening, last time I tried to go off (about 3 years ago) I fealt nothing like this. Not sure if my hormones were all so fucked up that now they're normalizing? I go for a testosterone level check Monday, wanted to test more but the Dr's around here have been less then helpful.

Cialis is good for blood pressure?

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Cialis is good for blood pressure?

After doing a bit of research it may not make a significant difference after all. Doesn't really change anything in my situation I don't think though.

[Couchlock]

After doing a bit of research it may not make a significant difference after all. Doesn't really change anything in my situation I don't think though.

I just asked cuzz I been interested as taking 5mg as preworkout

[S&S_ShovelHead]

I just asked cuzz I been interested as taking 5mg as preworkout

Definitely helps pre-workout for pumps. Atleast for me and others I know. I always take mine pre.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Got my results back. 52 ng/dl.

[kelkel]

Did you do any form of pct?

[S&S_ShovelHead]

No, my natural levels were at 386 ng/dl 5 years ago so i fealt there was no point in spending months try to get back to that, best case scenario. Much more likely that I'd spend months having significantly lower levels and after everything id end up going the trt route anyways.

[Obs]

No, my natural levels were at 386 ng/dl 5 years ago so i fealt there was no point in spending months try to get back to that, best case scenario. Much more likely that I'd spend months having significantly lower levels and after everything id end up going the trt route anyways.

Good luck and great job thus far you look great. I will be right behind you on trt I am sure. We will see how my levels do when I come off this cycle.

[kelkel]

No, my natural levels were at 386 ng/dl 5 years ago so i fealt there was no point in spending months try to get back to that, best case scenario. Much more likely that I'd spend months having significantly lower levels and after everything id end up going the trt route anyways.

Time to see the doc then.

[Sh0tsf1red]

Holy fuck 5 years! That's awesome

[Marsoc]

Edited.
Didn't know this post was old..my bad

[Marsoc]

Lol at gaining 90 lbs of muscle naturally in 5 years.

True..no Man U look great ..no offense I'm just in conflict with starting my first cycle. But after knowing what your pre 5year cycle test levels were it was all worth it..

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Update: got second set of bloods back, nothing was too bad. Cholesterol was slightly out of range and was ast and rbc. I have a appt to see a urologist in July. Obviously I'm not waiting until then to start trt. Took 1st injection of pharmaceutical cyp on Saturday and will run it at 200mg/week with injections every five days. Going in to get my levels checked after 3 months unless I feel I need to go sooner.

As far as how I feel, definitely a HUGE difference compared to being on. I have way more energy now, think much clearer, way better mood and basically feel 10x better all the time. There was something really fucked up going on inside me. Better sleep, less anxiety. Libido is way down and no random erections but I feel like those will correct in a few weeks once my test levels are back to where they should be. Recovery is much harder now I've noticed. Doms for days. Feeling very optimistic about trt and don't plan on going on elevated levels of testosterone any time soon. No change really in the gym yet which is alot better then I initially expected. Tighten up my training and diet significantly so I believe I can only go up from here. Will update in a few weeks.

[S&S_ShovelHead]

Update:

About a week to 10 days after trt start my libido and erections were back to normal. Started hcg 2 weeks ago. Nuts are coming back. Libido increase. No significant estrogen symptoms. Killing it in the gym. Gaining weight and leaning out at the same time. Lifts are going up weekly.

[DocToxin8]

Good going. So you ended up on TRT.
Yeah, I can truly understand that you didn't want the hassle of a drawn out PCT.

Low T levels are a bitch.
Thanks for keeping us updated though.