Opinions on training cycle

[Power76]

Hey bros I have been training without my equipment in an effort to work on some weak points and I have decided to do a raw meet just for fun in a couple of months. I use the Westside system and was wondering what changes I should make with my training. I was wondering if I should take out the bands and chains. They help the top end which is great when you are going to be using equipment but I think I should work more bottom end since I won't be using any supportive gear. Also, I know I need to do more full range work but I can't seem to put a cycle together that looks like it will work well. What do you guys think?

[power65]

You are right about having to work the bottom end more. The "Westside System" is primarily designed for lifters using gear. I think alot of the stuff they put out is pretty good, but if you're going to compete Raw you are going to need to spend a lot of time working full presses instead of so much time with Chains, Bands, Boards, etc. that seem to be for more of the top end of the movment. NOTE:: I know that you have put up some post in the past in reference to you having some shoulder trouble. Caution: Be sure that if you are using Bands, and you are lifting Raw, that you never do Band work with the bands set up from the bottom. If you have shoulder problems you should do your band work with the bands set-up from above in a power rack. Here's why: When you rig-up the bands from below the bands are constantly pulling back against you and can really put extra stress on your shoulder joints; ie, the AC joint that makes up the shoulder. Bands from the bottom also tend to mess up the natural motion in which you bench press because they are pulling the bar back toword you in every direction. When using the bands rigged up from the top, you still get the benefit of working the top end of the movement, but you don't have to wrestle the bar and you can stay in your Natural groove of the bench press motion. Just food for thought.

[Power76]

Thanks power65. I never thought about the bands causing some of my shoulder problems. I usually bench against bands almost every week. What do you think about benching with chains?

[RJstrong]

Thanks power65. I never thought about the bands causing some of my shoulder problems. I usually bench against bands almost every week. What do you think about benching with chains?

I am a bit torn on this one... everyone is different so all I can say is what works for me. Yes I agree you need to do more full range, but on the other hand full range is harder on the shoulders. I also have noticed that even though my training involves a lot of board pressing ( which seems geared towards the shirt) my overall raw max has increased significantly. I look at various board heights also as a way to train your sticking point. I also feel that I can train with much heavier poundages with let say a 3 board press and not destroy the shoulder (rotator cuff). So my suggetion is to still use everything in your arsenal. My question for you is how do you use your bands every week? I would feel overtrained if I used bands every week. I would still use bands and chains but use with a slight caution. I would suggest trying something different each week. I hope this helps. good luck. and let us know how it is going so we can keep bainstorming in this issue!

[RJstrong]

almost forgot... not only do bands and chains work on top end, but more importantly they improve your overall bar speed... which will improve your raw max (and we all know speed is the deadliest weapon!) so find room for both just don't overuse them which is easy to do... if you want to have some real fun use both at the same time!

[power65]

I agree w/ RJstrong, no you don't want to stop using boards, chains, bands, etc. But what I was saying previously in my earlier post, if your going to compete RAW you do have to spend more time in your training cycle doing full presses....otherwise you lose alot of explosion out of the whole coming off the chest. Power76, you mentioned that you were doing band work against the bands (ie, bands rigged up from the bottom) almost on a weekly basis. I personally think this is a mistake if you have had shoulder trouble in the past. Some may disagree with me, but I think the band work from this position is really hard on the shoulders because it puts extra stress on the shoulder's AC Joint. It's just not a natural motion to have the bar being pulled back toward your body as you're having to lift it. Some may argue that is the best part about it and that may be true, if you have healthy shoulders. But anyone with shoulder injuries need to avoid this type of band work all together. You can still use the bands, just rig them up from the top so that the bar still gets heavier as you push the bar upward, but you're able to stay in your natural groove as you push. As far as using chains, i think they are o.k. Chains are not as hard on the shoulder because all they do is make the bar heavier as you push upwards, chains don't pull back. They are just adding weight as you lift and you are still able to maintain your natural groove. Does that make any sense? If anyone would like to discuss this further please send me a PM and I can give you my phone number so we can discuss. I'll be more than happy to call you and pay for the long distance charges if you would like further explanation.

[RJstrong]

power65... excellent points. I think that is the beauty of this sport finding new and creative ways to increase strength, especially while training thru pain (which comes with the territory as we all know) I do like the idea of reverse band work. The key for me is to always change it up. I'm good for about 3 maybe 4 weeks of heavy training then my strength usually stalls out. If I try and push heavy longer than that I actually start to lose strength. I think that is where speed work comes in real handy (to fight off overtraining). Good luck bro, train hard and it will all come together!

[Power76]

Great advice from both of you. Thanks. I don't bench heavy very often with the bands. I usually do speed benches every week with them.

[phreezer]

I recently walked away from using equipment. I am doing strong man comps for awhile instead of competing in any PL meets.. The only real changes I've made to my training is to remove board presses and Rack lockouts... The only equipment I am using right now is knee wraps and a belt.. not suits, shirts, briefs wrist wraps... nothing.. I want a 500lb raw bench and I want a 700lb raw squat .. And I'm not that far off from getting those numbers..

Other than that, I'm pretty much just doing straight west side with a little tweeking for a shoulder and bicep day because I don't like spending two hours a night in the gym..

[RJstrong]

Great advice from both of you. Thanks. I don't bench heavy very often with the bands. I usually do speed benches every week with them.

I think you are on the right track. Good luck bro. Nothing more hardcore than lifing RAW!