clen

[lifter76]

Does anyone know how long clen will be detected in a drug test. (I.P.F) test.
My does is 80-120mcg for 3 weeks only.

[Velkar182]

I am pretty sure that the half life of clen is about 1.5 days (ie every day and a half the amount of clen left in your body will be half of the previous amount). I am not sure the minimum detectable levels, but I think it is something like7 mcg and less is what slips by unnoticed. So in that case you need 4-5.5 days to get rid of it.
The other things that are going to effect the test are the frequency with which you used clen, fluid intake, body fat, and metabolism.
If you have time I would use niacin to flush it out, then hit up a does or two of creatine and do multiple vitamins and drink a butt load of water. Lower your water intake the night before. The IPF, I think, tests for creatine levels to see if you stripped your blood recently, so be sure that nutrient levels are normal. Good luck.

[power65]

This is going to piss some of you off, but please hear me out. I'm not trying to be an A**hole here, but just listen to what I'm saying. If you are using Roids.......why would you be competing in the IPF? The IPF is a "Drug Free" federation. It is designed for people that want to be drug free. There are tons of federations out there that don't test and don't even attempt to say they are drug free. Why don't you just compete in one of those organizations? I'm not telling you not to "Juice", I'm just telling you that if you do decide to use "Juice" compete against your own kind. Don't enter drug tested meets so you can beat "Clean Lifters". Is it really worth beating out all of those people that chose not to use drugs? I used "juice" years ago, but I always competed in non-drug tested federations then. I've been clean 8 years now and now I lift in drug-free organizations. I'm not trying to pass judgement on you. Like I stated earlier.....if you want to use "juice" that's fine. But compete on a level playing field. Winning isn't everything when you have to cheat to do it????? But please don't "juice" then go around trying to lift against other lifters that are clean. I have made many friends in the IPF over the years and they take great pride in being drug-free. By doing what you're doing you are making a mockery of the IPF and all those who lift in that organization. You can't take pride in winning at a IPF meet if you're not truely drug free. I'm sure you're not the only one, but come on people. It would be like trying to wear a bench shirt at a raw meet. They both have their own place, but not together. Does that make any sense??? Does anyone here agree w/ me??? Or am I the only one that thinks this way? Please let me know.

[RJstrong]

your making perfect sense!

[Doc.Sust]

This is going to piss some of you off, but please hear me out. I'm not trying to be an A**hole here, but just listen to what I'm saying. If you are using Roids.......why would you be competing in the IPF? The IPF is a "Drug Free" federation. It is designed for people that want to be drug free. There are tons of federations out there that don't test and don't even attempt to say they are drug free. Why don't you just compete in one of those organizations? I'm not telling you not to "Juice", I'm just telling you that if you do decide to use "Juice" compete against your own kind. Don't enter drug tested meets so you can beat "Clean Lifters". Is it really worth beating out all of those people that chose not to use drugs? I used "juice" years ago, but I always competed in non-drug tested federations then. I've been clean 8 years now and now I lift in drug-free organizations. I'm not trying to pass judgement on you. Like I stated earlier.....if you want to use "juice" that's fine. But compete on a level playing field. Winning isn't everything when you have to cheat to do it????? But please don't "juice" then go around trying to lift against other lifters that are clean. I have made many friends in the IPF over the years and they take great pride in being drug-free. By doing what you're doing you are making a mockery of the IPF and all those who lift in that organization. You can't take pride in winning at a IPF meet if you're not truely drug free. I'm sure you're not the only one, but come on people. It would be like trying to wear a bench shirt at a raw meet. They both have their own place, but not together. Does that make any sense??? Does anyone here agree w/ me??? Or am I the only one that thinks this way? Please let me know.

if it is only clen then i wouldn't care, but if it was test or drol then i agree.

[Velkar182]

The IPF is as drug free as the NFL. If you think the top dogs don't juice, you are as innocent and naive as my little brother. You think Siders the SHW champ isn't juiced to the gills. Look back at the history of sports and you'll see two things. The first is that whether it is the Olympics, the NFL or whatever, the question is not "are there people in these drug free organizations who take performance enhancing drugs" the question is "what are they using to avoid detection from these tests." My powerlifting coach happens to be a former Philadelphia Eagle strength coach, so I have the inside scoop. There are few pro athletes that make it pro without juice and if they do, they suck and go unoticed for a few years until they are replaced by true competitors. The other thing is that sports are about the competition and the feats, and not about the competitor. Drug tested fed or not, it is all about performance and there is no way everyone is going to abide, because if out of 300 people in a fed 299 don't use the juice, the benefit is that much greater for the person who uses even an oral dbol or whatever. I compete clean in IPF currently, but I am not stupid and I know the 3-4 guys ahead of me nationally in the junior division are juiced out of their minds. But they won't get caught because they know what they are doing. SO come this next year I'll either cry like you, or I'll man up and bring the numbers. DO WHAT YOU MUST TO WIN. THAT'S THE NAME OF THE GAME. F%@K TESTED AND NOT TESTED. The only advice for guys like you is: enjoy being second to me in the IPF, hold your own competitions with yourself, or take up synchronized swimming.

[RJstrong]

"guys like you"... it's quite a shame that you would direct that to someone like power65... he is a wealth of information... and sadly enough you may of just burned that bridge... along with some others!!!

RJ

[Velkar182]

I am not being mean. I am telling you the way it is. We can cry all day about the fact that competitive sports use a variety of forms of performance enhancement, but the fact is that there will always be someone who uses them. All I was saying is that it is better to, not focus on others, but compete against yourself, because I am interested, genuinely, in winning championships. Sure, you can compete at the same meet as Siders, who is supposedly drug free, but you won't win. Therefore, you can't be considered competitve with Siders and any drug using IPFer. The entire point is that the future of serious federations and test feds is in performance enhancing drugs. Otherwise you are better of going to meets at local gyms and not considering what anyone else lifts, because sports are about the fans...the competition, not the competitor. Any sport that can even begin to consider having the spectator turn out of say an NBA game, must dip into the realm of drugs. If some feds do this, then the IPF would dissolve without competitors like Siders, whom champions the IPF. So have it your way, without drugs and there is no IPF. But I am interested in powerlifting becoming a true professional sport, not some underground unknown sport, that gets the back seat to Magic the Gathering World at 2 am on ESPN 2. If I were trying to insult anyone, I would not be so nice. So don't take it personally. I talk the way I talk in the gym, because I never really leave it. So don't be a pu$$y.

[RJstrong]

"don't' be a pu$$y" I am far from being a so called "pu$$y, I believe Power65 makes a great argument, and you obviously have some growing up to do!
"not focus on others" you seem pretty worried about big Mikes squat!
I feel like I am wasting my time interacting with you so this will be my last correspondence to any opinion you have... another bridge burned!

[OldPLer]

This is going to piss some of you off, but please hear me out. I'm not trying to be an A**hole here, but just listen to what I'm saying. If you are using Roids.......why would you be competing in the IPF? The IPF is a "Drug Free" federation. It is designed for people that want to be drug free. There are tons of federations out there that don't test and don't even attempt to say they are drug free. Why don't you just compete in one of those organizations? I'm not telling you not to "Juice", I'm just telling you that if you do decide to use "Juice" compete against your own kind. Don't enter drug tested meets so you can beat "Clean Lifters". Is it really worth beating out all of those people that chose not to use drugs? I used "juice" years ago, but I always competed in non-drug tested federations then. I've been clean 8 years now and now I lift in drug-free organizations. I'm not trying to pass judgement on you. Like I stated earlier.....if you want to use "juice" that's fine. But compete on a level playing field. Winning isn't everything when you have to cheat to do it????? But please don't "juice" then go around trying to lift against other lifters that are clean. I have made many friends in the IPF over the years and they take great pride in being drug-free. By doing what you're doing you are making a mockery of the IPF and all those who lift in that organization. You can't take pride in winning at a IPF meet if you're not truely drug free. I'm sure you're not the only one, but come on people. It would be like trying to wear a bench shirt at a raw meet. They both have their own place, but not together. Does that make any sense??? Does anyone here agree w/ me??? Or am I the only one that thinks this way? Please let me know.

I agree with you, I used to lift drug free, now I am taking TRT, an old PLer, and not competing in any drug free meets. I know everyone there is not drug free but I dont want to be part of the problem by competing against people my age who are not taking anything.

[Velkar182]

My concern with Miller's squat is the same the Sydney Crosby would have if Gretzky was scoring goals on a soccer net, while Crosby has to play with a standard net. I never said he wasn't a great athlete. My only point was that even if you had your on meet with an exclusive group of people that was private, you probably would not have a truly competitive power meet w/o some using performance enhancing drugs. Moreover, in a competitive fed, whose goal it is to expand and become even more comptetive, you will never get your dream of having a drug free meet. That's the point. It would be nice, but oh well. Fans want higher levels of performance and without it the IPF doesn't sell. For example, look at the biggest "Natural" bodybuilding competition (which isn't natural at all) and compare it with the Mr. Olympia. You can have your hobby, but powerlifting is a competitive sport and the only thing that causes a sport to expand is a fan base. Having it your way would only limit the fan base to people who powerlift. But by raising the level of performance, as in the NFL, you bring in fans that are in no way active in the sport, but enjoy the exhibition of great athletic performance. Considering the way that you get offended by my thoughts, I would suggest you to turn down the equipoise flow, and stop raging. Perhaps you could learn to read what I am saying collectively, and stop being offended by random words like pu$$y, considering I said don't be one. I didn't say you are a pu$$y. If you diagree with what I am saying, tell what you disagree with instead of writing all pissed off and vituperatively.

[Doc.Sust]

man i agree ith someof what you say, the ipf is crooked, i also have heard alot of ipf guys are GH and juice canidates, and yes espn does show some damn dumb things that aren't close to sports, but if you think everyone taking juice will make the sport bigger and better it won't. the only way will work would be to have one serious sanction with the same rules, which will NEVER hapen, and i hate to break it to you the way you are talking, the IPF will never be the worlds best organization, if the drugs, unlimited gear/equipment was to rule this sport we already have a place for that WPO and if what you are saying is true then that federation would be the one to get the most regognition, because there aren't very many people in the ipf that could compete with those monsters , except those who are on juice, who have no bussiness being known as a drug free lifter. RJ is right, i can give a Fk if the ipf grows or dies, and just because a guy like siders may break the rules doesn't make it right. this is why there are two different realms of competition, and if you use juice, the go in the pro division or organiztion thatdoesn't care. if you take juice and then go to the drug free meets, that would be like me cheating my way into the special olympics and winning every medal. how rewarding would that be?!?!?!?! to be the best of those who have a disadvantage to you, and those who break the rules, they are the pu$$ies for NOT competing with the other s who are on there same playing field!!!amen to that!!!

[power65]

Well what can I say to some of the responses here. I appreciate everyone who supports my thoughts on this issue. I'm not stupid or naive. I know there are cheaters all over our sport. I don't consider people cheating for using "Juice". If they want to use then that is their own business. I'm not try to pass judgement on anyone or trying to say that someone is wrong for using 'juice". It's not my place to tell someone what they can or can not put in their bodies. My point was that if you want to "use" please do it in a federation that is for you. DON'T ENTER A DRUG FREE MEET "JUICED UP" AND THEN THINK YOU'VE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING BY BEATING WHAT IS SUPPOSE TO BE DRUG FREE LIFTERS. How can you feel good about yourself when you are cheating????? I guess I just have too much pride in my training than some people. Velkar182= I hate to come out and attack you for your views, but then again you had no problem with attacking me so here we go......... your logic is what's wrong w/ our sport today. You believe that winning at any cost is more important than winning w/ pride. You need to learn what the word INTEGRITY means. If I have to cheat to win then I'd rather not even compete. People that cheat to win are cowards because they are affraid of losing. Velkar182 made the comment that if I want to compete clean in the IPF then I can just sit back and take second place to guys like him. If your such a great powerlifter then go win against people that are on your level playing field. I'm not calling you a cheater and a coward for using "juice". Like I said earlier, that is your own business and it not my place to tell you what to do. I'm calling you a cheater and a coward for using "juice" and competing in a Drug Free organization. Who cares that there are others who do it. It doesn't make it right does it?? Once again the word for today is INTEGRITY. If you don't know what it means let me know and I'll give you the formal defination of the word according to Webster. You keep bringing up the point that All Professional Sports use drugs and this and that. And yes you're right. There are a large number of professional athletes that use drugs. And every time one of them gets popped it's a Huge Black Eye on that sport. Just look at what Baseball is going through right now. But if there was a baseball league that was NOT DRUG TESTED then these athletes would have a place to play. Just like you have an option. Look. The bottom line is this. Guys that use "juice" and enter drug tested meets are cheaters, cowards, and to use Velkar182's favorite word Pu##ys too. If not they would compete against others like them on a level playing field. I don't care who they are. You can give me a list of names all day long. It doesn't matter. If what I said applies to them then they fit the bill of what I'm talking about. This sport needs more lifters w/ Integrity. Until then it will be nothing more than a sport of Cheaters that will do anything to win, even if that means knocking off lifters that take pride in their training and try to compete w/ integrity.

[Doc.Sust]

Well what can I say to some of the responses here. I appreciate everyone who supports my thoughts on this issue. I'm not stupid or naive. I know there are cheaters all over our sport. I don't consider people cheating for using "Juice". If they want to use then that is their own business. I'm not try to pass judgement on anyone or trying to say that someone is wrong for using 'juice". It's not my place to tell someone what they can or can not put in their bodies. My point was that if you want to "use" please do it in a federation that is for you. DON'T ENTER A DRUG FREE MEET "JUICED UP" AND THEN THINK YOU'VE ACCOMPLISHED SOMETHING BY BEATING WHAT IS SUPPOSE TO BE DRUG FREE LIFTERS. How can you feel good about yourself when you are cheating????? I guess I just have too much pride in my training than some people. Velkar182= I hate to come out and attack you for your views, but then again you had no problem with attacking me so here we go......... your logic is what's wrong w/ our sport today. You believe that winning at any cost is more important than winning w/ pride. You need to learn what the word INTEGRITY means. If I have to cheat to win then I'd rather not even compete. People that cheat to win are cowards because they are affraid of losing. Velkar182 made the comment that if I want to compete clean in the IPF then I can just sit back and take second place to guys like him. If your such a great powerlifter then go win against people that are on your level playing field. I'm not calling you a cheater and a coward for using "juice". Like I said earlier, that is your own business and it not my place to tell you what to do. I'm calling you a cheater and a coward for using "juice" and competing in a Drug Free organization. Who cares that there are others who do it. It doesn't make it right does it?? Once again the word for today is INTEGRITY. If you don't know what it means let me know and I'll give you the formal defination of the word according to Webster. You keep bringing up the point that All Professional Sports use drugs and this and that. And yes you're right. There are a large number of professional athletes that use drugs. And every time one of them gets popped it's a Huge Black Eye on that sport. Just look at what Baseball is going through right now. But if there was a baseball league that was NOT DRUG TESTED then these athletes would have a place to play. Just like you have an option. Look. The bottom line is this. Guys that use "juice" and enter drug tested meets are cheaters, cowards, and to use Velkar182's favorite word Pu##ys too. If not they would compete against others like them on a level playing field. I don't care who they are. You can give me a list of names all day long. It doesn't matter. If what I said applies to them then they fit the bill of what I'm talking about. This sport needs more lifters w/ Integrity. Until then it will be nothing more than a sport of Cheaters that will do anything to win, even if that means knocking off lifters that take pride in their training and try to compete w/ integrity.

agreed!! i think you and i have some similar points

[power65]

Doc.Sust & RJstrong,

Thank you for the support here. I don't know if you guys use "Juice" or not.....I don't even want to know because it doesn't matter with this argument. The point is that you understand what I'm saying here. If you want to use then compete w/ other users. If not, then you are cheating. I love Doc.Sust's point that it is like a regular athlete sneeking their way into the special olympics just to win the medals. It's the same thing isn't it? I just don't see how a lifter that "uses" can take pride in beating other clean lifters. Just doesn't make sense does it???

[Doc.Sust]

glad to back you, i am not anti drug, not at all, but when your drug free, go to drug free contests, if on gear , go to a meet that promotes gear or condones it. also i like my analogy about the special olympics, it just cam off the top of my head. i keep thinking about it and it makes me laugh!

[OldPLer]

A lot of opinions on this, I agree with Doc and Power65. To change the subject, Doc do you know if Senior Olympics, those for people over 50 like me, have to be drug free?? I think I could kick ass in shuffleboard. Ha

[RJstrong]

Power65...glad to back you... I have always enjoyed reading your posts... and you as well Doc Sust... I believe you hit the nail on the head when it comes to term INTEGRITY and what guys can bring to the sport that have that character trait... it is truly an asset. I know what my goals are in powerlifting and I understand where my best competition is that is why I compete in the APF and have my sights set on the WPO... I know I can walk away from a meet feeling good about what I have done and the accomplishments that I have made.

[Doc.Sust]

A lot of opinions on this, I agree with Doc and Power65. To change the subject, Doc do you know if Senior Olympics, those for people over 50 like me, have to be drug free?? I think I could kick ass in shuffleboard. Ha

i am going to cheat my way into the senior olympics too and steal your shuffle board title!!your ass is mine!!!hahahahahaha i am also going to be the first full blown anabolic shuffle board player. i am coming in on a gram of test, eq, dbol , winny tren ,gh,igf one,everything!!!! hey whatever it takes to be the best,!!i what integrity???

[Doc.Sust]

Power65...glad to back you... I have always enjoyed reading your posts... and you as well Doc Sust... I believe you hit the nail on the head when it comes to term INTEGRITY and what guys can bring to the sport that have that character trait... it is truly an asset. I know what my goals are in powerlifting and I understand where my best competition is that is why I compete in the APF and have my sights set on the WPO... I know I can walk away from a meet feeling good about what I have done and the accomplishments that I have made.

hope to see you on the WPO platform someday, make us all proud!

[RJstrong]

hope to see you on the WPO platform someday, make us all proud!

thanx Doc... that means a lot to me!

[OldPLer]

Doc,I will talk to the director here at the retirement center where I live and make sure he puts your name on a list of people to drug test during the shuffleboard competition.
On a serious note, the decision to use gear is a personal one and I have no problem with people who make that decision but I hope they are doing it for their own benefit and not to cheat by competing against drug free lifters. I personally never used gear and at one point won a national title in a lifetime drug free meet. I did a lot of research in the past year and decided to pursue TRT and am now on it and will never lift drug free again. At my age competing is not nearly as important as feeling good. I respect your posts and your help. Thanks

[Doc.Sust]

Doc,I will talk to the director here at the retirement center where I live and make sure he puts your name on a list of people to drug test during the shuffleboard competition.
On a serious note, the decision to use gear is a personal one and I have no problem with people who make that decision but I hope they are doing it for their own benefit and not to cheat by competing against drug free lifters. I personally never used gear and at one point won a national title in a lifetime drug free meet. I did a lot of research in the past year and decided to pursue TRT and am now on it and will never lift drug free again. At my age competing is not nearly as important as feeling good. I respect your posts and your help. Thanks

i also have some drug free titles and a few records, all which were done drug free. i also was on the darkside sometime ago, and when i was, i steared clear of drug free meets. i only did unsanctioned meets. hell i even left the drug free gym and went to a drug full gym. now i do nothing, but i have friends who use and itdoesn't bother me. now if somebody beats my records and is using gear, i will break there legs with a bat!!!! i worked damn to hard to beat those numbers and will be damned to lose them like that!

[Velkar182]

I agree with how you guys feel, but not what you guys think. I think some people treat powerlifting too much like a hobby. Powerlifting is a mind set and a lifestyle. In regard to your various comments on the ethics of juicing in a tested federation, perhaps the juicer beleives it is unfair that some people were born with better genetics. Aren't juicer just leveling the playing field with people who are more fortunate than themselves? I am speaking from a completely hypothetical and liberal view that I don't necessarily agree with, but I wonder what you guys believe is fair and a level playing field. By the way,I am currently drug free.

[power65]

Velkar182,

I just want everyone here to know that I don't hold any hard feelings against anyone who doesn't think the way I do. That's what is so great about a discussion forum. People get to express their views. In saying that I still hold strongly to my beliefs. But it is your right to disagree w/ me. I think WE ALL get a little too worked up over a certain topic some times. I know that I do. As lifters we are all so passionate about what we do. That's why our opinions are so strong and why we are so easy to lash-out at others that disagree with us.

I do still strongly believe in every thing that I said here in this thread as far as Drug Free Competition. And I doubt I will ever change my mind. But I just want everyone to know that even though Velkar182 and I have argued and said some pretty harsh things to each other over this topic......now that I have calmed down some I don't hold any harsh feelings toward him as a poster. I wish him the best of luck in his training and competitions.

Velkar182.....That doesn't mean I will give up on winning you over "Young Jedi". LOL.

Good luck to all where ever you decide to compete.

I know we all really love our sport. I've been doing this for 12 years now and I can't see me ever doing anything else.

[Velkar182]

I agree with that. I didn't mean to work anyone up. I just tend to go against the grain with my line of thinking. Disagree, or agree, Irespect what everyone has to say.

[OldPLer]

Boy, this thread sure changed from the first post. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect that. I am not built for DLing and have tried everything, close stance, wide stance, medium stance, nothing helped alot. Too long a back and too short arms are something I was born with and I just work through it, Velkar, you did open up a new thought in my mind, maybe I should get an extra 100lbs on the DL because of my genetic disadvantage. Powerlifting, IMO, is a hobby, something to enjoy and make me feel better and enjoy good friends, besides if I wasnt in the gym I would either be on the couch or in a bar somewhere. I do still look at state and national records every now and then to see which ones I still hold. I only got into officiating so I could turn down any lift that might beat my record. My next plan is to hire Doc to break kneecaps on anyone who might beat my records. By the way, I hold NO Deadlift records. Ha

[lifter76]

Just to clear the air I am not using any gear other than clen . I do agree with velar182 though to be a top contender in the IPF world championships you do have to juice.

[RJstrong]

Velkar182,

I just want everyone here to know that I don't hold any hard feelings against anyone who doesn't think the way I do. That's what is so great about a discussion forum. People get to express their views. In saying that I still hold strongly to my beliefs. But it is your right to disagree w/ me. I think WE ALL get a little too worked up over a certain topic some times. I know that I do. As lifters we are all so passionate about what we do. That's why our opinions are so strong and why we are so easy to lash-out at others that disagree with us.

I do still strongly believe in every thing that I said here in this thread as far as Drug Free Competition. And I doubt I will ever change my mind. But I just want everyone to know that even though Velkar182 and I have argued and said some pretty harsh things to each other over this topic......now that I have calmed down some I don't hold any harsh feelings toward him as a poster. I wish him the best of luck in his training and competitions.

Velkar182.....That doesn't mean I will give up on winning you over "Young Jedi". LOL.

Good luck to all where ever you decide to compete.

I know we all really love our sport. I've been doing this for 12 years now and I can't see me ever doing anything else.

good call... Its time for me to man up and apologize to Velkar182... no disrespect... I admit I was I bit worked up and really had no reason to be everyone is entitled to their opinion... that is what makes this board so useful... we can all learn from one another... and you were probably right, well not about the EQ... but my blood work the other day did have my test levels at 2011... but I refuse to turn down the flow... I hope I can help you in any way that I can... I'm sure you have some tricks up your sleeve I would like to know about... I'm reaching out to you brother... hopefully we can start with a clean slate.

[Doc.Sust]

Boy, this thread sure changed from the first post. Everyone has their own opinions and I respect that. I am not built for DLing and have tried everything, close stance, wide stance, medium stance, nothing helped alot. Too long a back and too short arms are something I was born with and I just work through it, Velkar, you did open up a new thought in my mind, maybe I should get an extra 100lbs on the DL because of my genetic disadvantage. Powerlifting, IMO, is a hobby, something to enjoy and make me feel better and enjoy good friends, besides if I wasnt in the gym I would either be on the couch or in a bar somewhere. I do still look at state and national records every now and then to see which ones I still hold. I only got into officiating so I could turn down any lift that might beat my record. My next plan is to hire Doc to break kneecaps on anyone who might beat my records. By the way, I hold NO Deadlift records. Ha

no problem!!! i love my bat!!!

[Doc.Sust]

glad this was resolved properly!