Sumo DL and wrapping knees?

**cmillett** · 08-30-2006, 12:24 PM

I saw a guy wrapping up the other day while he was performing sumo's from the floor,so I tried it and damn all I had to do was lockout the weight almost as if it was just a rackout,do any of you know if this is legal in the APA? I looked and could not find anything in their rules and reg. about wrapping when performing a DL.Do any of you do this?

***Doc.Sust*** · 08-30-2006, 01:03 PM

i used to do it. i stoped because i would get the bar caught on the wraps when i pulled. i am pretty sur it is legal in the apa. so it idid make a big difference for you? was you bar speed off the floor alot quicker? maybe i will try it again, i am having problems from the strating point of the lift now. i need some help. anyone have any suggestions for a sumo deadlifter to help the initial pull???

**cmillett** · 08-30-2006, 02:42 PM

I beleive it made at least a 20-30lb. difference.I found that low box squats and rackouts have helped me with my speed off the floor,heres a template of my lower splits.

day 1=sq/dl
squat ME
dl speed/re 5x5
leg press 6 sets progressive for 10rm's
accs.
accs.

day 2=sq/dl
sumo from floor=5-6 sets of a progressive(20lb.) increase of 3rm
low box squats=5x5 or 8-10 x 3
accs.
accs,
accs.

I put 96-120 hrs. between these 2 routines,Ilike the 5x5 just for the fact that I tend to stay stronger,when ever I feel that the 5x5 is getting old I'll go with a 3 week wave of speed work as a secondary.As you can see in my template if I work SQ as a primary then DL(rackout) will be a secondary speed or 5 x 5,and on the DL day Sumo will be primary and squat(low box sq) will be secondary as a 5x5 or speed work.This seems to be working pretty good for me,since I've gone back too using this template I've set some PR's just within 4 weeks.

**Velkar182** · 08-30-2006, 03:04 PM

It definitely puts 20-30 pounds on the DL. I look forward to doing it because the usapl doesn't allow that stuff. I am trying to figure out what size erector shirt I should get. It is super tight and doesn't seem to help. Has anyone added pounds to their DL with an erector shirt?
My wife thinks my shirt would do loads more if it were connected to my power breifs (which don't fit either). She drew me a diagram of her idea, and the physics seem to work. She was thinking about putting duffle bag metal hole protectors on a pair of predators or Kara's extreme design briefs and hook it up to the erector shirt.

**Velkar182** · 08-30-2006, 03:04 PM

It definitely puts 20-30 pounds on the DL. I look forward to doing it because the usapl doesn't allow that stuff. I am trying to figure out what size erector shirt I should get. It is super tight and doesn't seem to help. Has anyone added pounds to their DL with an erector shirt?
My wife thinks my shirt would do loads more if it were connected to my power breifs (which don't fit either). She drew me a diagram of her idea, and the physics seem to work. She was thinking about putting duffle bag metal hole protectors on a pair of predators or Kara's extreme design briefs and hook it up to the erector shirt.

**Squatman51** · 08-30-2006, 06:29 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

i used to do it. i stoped because i would get the bar caught on the wraps when i pulled. i am pretty sur it is legal in the apa. so it idid make a big difference for you? was you bar speed off the floor alot quicker? maybe i will try it again, i am having problems from the strating point of the lift now. i need some help. anyone have any suggestions for a sumo deadlifter to help the initial pull???

i think speed pulls help and also low box squats...hey doc i deadlift sumo also but i get stuck at the top what do you do for them anyone... im talking at the very top roughly 4-5 inches from the top of my knee..... i tend to roll my shoulders forward very badly at this point and i am hunch over and cant move the weight any further

***Doc.Sust*** · 08-30-2006, 06:56 PM

Originally Posted by cmillett

I beleive it made at least a 20-30lb. difference.I found that low box squats and rackouts have helped me with my speed off the floor,heres a template of my lower splits.

day 1=sq/dl
squat ME
dl speed/re 5x5
leg press 6 sets progressive for 10rm's
accs.
accs.

day 2=sq/dl
sumo from floor=5-6 sets of a progressive(20lb.) increase of 3rm
low box squats=5x5 or 8-10 x 3
accs.
accs,
accs.

I put 96-120 hrs. between these 2 routines,Ilike the 5x5 just for the fact that I tend to stay stronger,when ever I feel that the 5x5 is getting old I'll go with a 3 week wave of speed work as a secondary.As you can see in my template if I work SQ as a primary then DL(rackout) will be a secondary speed or 5 x 5,and on the DL day Sumo will be primary and squat(low box sq) will be secondary as a 5x5 or speed work.This seems to be working pretty good for me,since I've gone back too using this template I've set some PR's just within 4 weeks.

thnaks c millet,i like the aproach.i may end up trying a hybrid of this

***Doc.Sust*** · 08-30-2006, 06:58 PM

Originally Posted by Velkar182

It definitely puts 20-30 pounds on the DL. I look forward to doing it because the usapl doesn't allow that stuff. I am trying to figure out what size erector shirt I should get. It is super tight and doesn't seem to help. Has anyone added pounds to their DL with an erector shirt?
My wife thinks my shirt would do loads more if it were connected to my power breifs (which don't fit either). She drew me a diagram of her idea, and the physics seem to work. She was thinking about putting duffle bag metal hole protectors on a pair of predators or Kara's extreme design briefs and hook it up to the erector shirt.

THAT seems like a great idea. i would try it out, i never used an errector shirt, but you may be on to something

***Doc.Sust*** · 08-30-2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Squatman51

i think speed pulls help and also low box squats...hey doc i deadlift sumo also but i get stuck at the top what do you do for them anyone... im talking at the very top roughly 4-5 inches from the top of my knee..... i tend to roll my shoulders forward very badly at this point and i am hunch over and cant move the weight any further

2be homest, i never had this problem, so i never worked on it, if i move it from the floor, it is usually goodto go, i did have a slight problem with lockouts for one routine, so i started doing conventional lock outs and close stance SLDL's,fixed it right up

**BigGreen** · 09-06-2006, 06:37 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

i am having problems from the strating point of the lift now. i need some help. anyone have any suggestions for a sumo deadlifter to help the initial pull???

Though I wasn't pulling sumo at the time, I was having trouble generating good speed out of the hole and took to DL'ing *against* bands to remedy it, and it worked so well that when I went back to a "regular" deadlift, I pulled out of the bottom sufficiently fast that for the first time in the history of my deadlifting days, my center of gravity was too far back, if you can believe that.

The setup is kind of funky and had to explain (I'll see if I can't get a picture in the next day or so), but essentially I would space out two sets of two dumbbells (needed the four total dumbbells at the base of my triangle to create the necessary weight to keep the whole setup steady) several feet apart and essentially use them as the base of my pyramid. I'd then set up the bands across that dumbbell setup (four dumbbells comprising two pairs spaced apart by four feet or so on each side of the bar) so that there would be band tension even with the bar resting on the floor (I believe people have talked about using bands with floor presses...i essentially cannibalized a method used for that since my power rack doesnt' accomodate bands). Trying to pull against the bands essentially requires that you "outrun" the bands (and I believe louie simmons has used that exact term in talking about this technique).

I hope that made some modicum of sense, but looking back over it, i'm not so sure...

***Doc.Sust*** · 09-07-2006, 10:01 AM

thanks green, i have a jump stretch band platform for deads, i dont use it often though. what did your reps, percentages,and dead days look like when using bands?

**BigGreen** · 09-23-2006, 01:34 PM

Originally Posted by Doc.Sust

thanks green, i have a jump stretch band platform for deads, i dont use it often though. what did your reps, percentages,and dead days look like when using bands?

I tended to adapt a technique that was essentially a mirror image of a classic WSB DE bench with bands. I'd use 2 reps as opposed to 3 and kept my sets at about 8. As far as percentages went, I prefer to knock the percentage WAY down on DE bench (33-45% 1RM as opposed to 55% or so that many use) but kept them closer to that "traditional" 55% for the deadlift. It took some experimentation to determine what kind of tension I had with my crazy band set-up but I got there eventually at what I estimated to be as high as 60% (maybe even 65%) at lockout when accounting for the band tension.

Certainly I would have loved to have had a more reliable set-up, as my dumbbell base would vary from day to day by a few inches, which would change tension enough to be noticed for sure.

I absolutely LOVED to follow these with barbell power cleans. With lowered weight and no band tension, it felt like I could throw the thing overhead across the gym.