5x5 correct technique and weights, please advices

[fabry]

hi there,
just wanted to know something more about the 5x5 workout.
i read something "around" but im still confused about the right weight to use.
ok, lets imagine i can lift 100 for 5 reps (100 is just a "number".. imagine 100kg), i mean, max rep i can do with 100 is 5 (that is the same, stupid me!).
do i have to use:
1-100 x 5 (that i will do alone)
2-100 x 5 (that i will "probably" do alone)
3-100 x 5 (with some help, maybe ill be able to do only the first 4 alone)
4-100 x 5 (with some extra help, maybe just 3 reps alone and 2 "forced" reps)
5-100 x 5 (with a lot of help, cos ill be probably able to complete the first 2-3 by myself)

or...

do i have to choose a lighter weight that allows me to reach the failure only during the last 2 sets?

what about the "style" of reps? clean, slow, cheat?

please, help me to understand the right way to make it. thanks

[fabry]

also, i read that article about 5x5 technique in wich it is said to include 2 other excercices for muscle group (2x8-10 series).
exemple:
bench press 5x5
incline dumbell 2x8-10
flyes or pec deck 2x8-10
is this correct?
how many times per week? 1 workout per bodypart is this enough?
thanks again

[Hit-That]

Don't ever go to failure in your strength training, and definately, no forced reps. If you want to know exactly what to do, call this guy. 626-890-4466 He's in Los Angeles.

[Black Rain]

I would do a pyramid mate.

Start relatively light then step it up and put on a good weight for your forth and fifth set. I keep the reps really slow for the first four sets and then just just go for reps on my final set.

Thats what i do, i stick to 2/3 exercises for the smaller groups, and then 3/4 for the larger muscle groups.

[itsallmental]

stay away from forced reps, no matter what routine your doing, you should be able to do the weight by yourself.the spot is only there incase you happend to get stuck on that last rep.

[fabry]

Don't ever go to failure in your strength training, and definately, no forced reps. If you want to know exactly what to do, call this guy. 626-890-4466 He's in Los Angeles.

how do i call him from italy? lol

thnaks for the contact, but i need something easier...

[fabry]

hey guys, sorry, but im a "bit stupid" in strength trainings...
i know there is a correct standard technique with 5x5 workouts, does anybody know something precise about it?
thanks

[saboudian]

Well besides that 5x5 is basically crap.

I would get on a real PLing system. WSB is a very good system and there's tons of info in this forum and on the net. Check out elitefts.com

[fabry]

crap or not, failure or not, can u please to my answer?
just want to know about the "right weight to use" to start my 5x5, how do i calculate it?

[itsallmental]

ive tried the 5x5 and i personally didnt like it,
the 6 5 4 3 routine has been working for me for a year and some now and its got my bench up by alot from where its been.a couple years ago i was more on a bodybuilding training split before i started powerlifting and my routine used to be higher reps(like 12 8 5 3 then burnout.

give the 6 5 4 3 a try its worked for me a good bit.if you dont want to, after your done doing 5x5 your gonna have to stick to only push movemtnets in the gym.after your benchpress, you hit your weighted dips, after your weighted dips you do some close grip bench.maybe after close grip bench you do board presses.its all in the intensity.

[fabry]

where do i get a routine like that one u re talkin about?
do ya have any link, please?

[itsallmental]

i dont have any link to show you how it works( i used to know of the websites which laid it out for you but they just made the routine more complicated than it should be but heres how i do it).
im just gonna type out what my workout looked like a couple days ago using my weight.
your max bench is around 20 or 25 lbs(pending on how good you feel) above what your last set would be in this program so keep that in mind.

WARMUP--------
i use the bar at first and push out around 20 reps switching from my regular bench to wide grip then back to regular just to get the blood flowing.
after that ill put 135(couple 45's on the bar and push around 5 or 6 reps).
i'l grab the nearest tall pole i see and just stretch my pecs out for a good couple minutes.
then i'l put 225 on the bar do it another 5 or 6 times.
k now im ready to go.

WORKING BENCHPRESS SETS-

325 for 6 reps(all by myself)
345 for 5 reps(all by myself)
365 for 4 reps(all by myself)
385 for 3 reps(i SHOULD be able to do this all by myself, sometimes i might get stuck hitting the very last rep and he only puts his finger on the bar and BARELY budges it-this is the only reason i have a spot-i never do forced reps)

burnout with 320(your burnout is 5 lbs less than your first set)
AIM FOR 10 REPS NO BULL****.on your burnout, you HAVE to get 10 reps, if you happen to only get 7 and the rest are forced, your bull****ting yourself and the program will only work half assed.if your not feeling good that day, lessin up the weight by a little and do it, just make sure you get 10 reps.

CLOSE GRIP PRESSES-----

keep around that very same bench you just used for the fact that now you have to do close grip presses.on these though i dont do 6 5 4 3 routine, i do 4 sets of 6 pyramid.again, figure out what you can do for your last set of 6 by yourself, and from there you can figure out what your first set is gonna be(80 lbs less than your last set).
so if you max out on your last set of close grip at 300(just a number), then start your first set out at 240 and throw on 20lbs every set till you get up to 300.

now, if your feeling fatigued coming close to your last set, dont worry about it, keep your sets using the same weight just make sure you can get close to your goal by only missing 1 or 2 reps.

WEIGHTED DIPS-------

these are VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY important.if your too weak to do weighted dips then DONT subsitute that gay dip machine you see in the corner for them.you get your ass on the dip rack and you do 4 sets of 10 or something.you keep working on your dips untill you can hit 4 sets of 15 or so COMFORTABLY.

now heres what seperates you from the rest.
NOBODY does weighted dips b/c they can subsitute some other excercise that will target there chest and tris(like dumbell presses and cable pushdowns).no offense to those 2 excercises b/c they helped me get to where i am but when it comes you subsituting weighted dips for that fact that you wanna gain on your bench, there is no subsitution.

on these i start out at higher reps and continue to lower rep ranges.
heres what i did on friday(adjust the weight to YOUR standards)
100 lb dumbell-12 times
125 lb dumbell-8 times
150 lb's(140 lb dumbell with a 10 lb added)-5 times
170 lbs-2 or 3 times

your done with weighted dips.

PIN PRESSES-

have you ever done pin presses?if you havnt then its no biggie, when i started doing them i really didnt like them.its one of those excercises that just helps you gain strength on your weak standpoints in your bench.im really not gonna type out how to do these cuzz it would take forever to explain how.im sure if you went into the search though you could find a good way of looking it up

after your all done with the workout i do some overhand dumbell extensions(with both hands), and always go heavy with a spotter.

some days i might substitute heavy sets of dumbell presses or board presses instead of close grip presses and whatnot.do whatever works for you when it comes to working your triceps.i like doing overhand dumbell extensions but my spotter who can bench a little more than me likes doing skull crushers instead.

overload on your protein on your chest days too.

hope this helped a little.

[phreezer]

---5X5--- Monday: Squats, Benching, Rows Weds: Squats, Military Presses, Deadlifts, Chins Friday: Squats, Benching, Rows courtesy of bill starr bill starr, the greatest strength coach who ever lived, popularized this in the 70's with his great book, the strongest shall survive, which was aimed at strength training for football. i believe he had essentually two different programs which both are 5 sets of 5, the first, which is more suitable for beginners, is to simply do 5 sets of 5 with similar weight jumps between each set so that your last set is your top weight. when you get all 5 on the last set, bump all your weights up 5 or 10lbs. example for squat... 185 for 5, 225 for 5, 275 for 5, 315 for 5, 365 for 5. if you get 365 for 5, move all weights up. this is especially good for someone who is just learning a particular exercise like the squat, because the amount of practice with light but increasing weights is a good way to practice form. for more advanced lifters, he advocated a warmup, then 5 sets of 5 with a set weight, for example, the same athlete used in the other example may do 135 for 5, 185 for 5, 225 for 3, 275 for 2, 315 for 1, then 350 for 5 sets of 5. when successfull with all 25 reps at 350lbs, bump the weight up the next workout by 5 or 10lbs. this is not outdated, and is a good program for gaining strength. many elite athletes still use it during at least part of the year. i in fact do 5 sets of 5 on squatting for 4 weeks as part of an 8 or 10 week training cycle. personally, when i do it 3 times a week, but most people will probably make better progress doing it 2 times per week, or even doing version 1 once a week, and version 2 once a week. it is a tough program. by the way are you doing the exact same workout every time or are you varying the weight a bit--- this might work fine for a while with the same weight every time but eventually you will ahve to vary things a bit between workouts. in any event i described a system in a post a while back that goes something like this... monday use the heaviest weight you can for all 5 sets (same weight each set)---- in other words when you get all 5 sets of 5 reps up the weight (most workouts you will get 3 or 4 sets of 5- adn maybe your last one will be for 3 or 4 reps) wednesday use 10-20% less weight- in other words if you used 200lbs on monday use 160-180lbs on wednesday- actuall amount depending on your recovery friday work up to a max set of 5- in other words lets say that your best ever set of 5 is 215lbs and you used 200lbs on monday for 5 sets and 170lbs on wednesday- on friday your workout might be like this 95 for 5 135 for 5 175 for 5 200 for 5 then attempt 220 for your last set of 5 this tends to work better as a long term program than doing the same thing 3 times a week on exercises where you only do them once a week like deadlift you can just do the 5 sets of 5 like i described on monday on exercises that you are only doing twice (rows) you could do both exercises like the monday workout or lighten one of them depending on your recovery ability .. by the way- be conservative with the weight when you start- that is important also i have used this program VERY often with athletes and it IS result producing- however many of your gains will show up after you use it for 4-6 weeks and you switch to training a bit less frequently and lower the reps and volume however this is one program i have had a LOT of success with in fact i rarely if ever use it with athletes who are at the top of their weight class because it causes too much weight gain unless you severely restrict your food.

[Hit-That]

how do i call him from italy? lol

thnaks for the contact, but i need something easier...

[email protected]

He probably knows more than just about anyone on the pricipals of strength training.

[fabry]

hit-that,
thanks!!!