Arnold the "greatest" (?)

[BigDude]

Just saw this on getbig.com. I knew the Olympias were not that competitive 30 years ago, but apparently in 1971 there was only 3 competitors... which is kind of weird. It's hard to compare Mr. O wins, sure Arnold has 7 but for example Haney had to face very aggressive competition, and of course today it's to brutal some people are willing to die for huge, ripped muscles. Many of Arnolds wins are very controversial. So, I wonder how many Mr. O's Arnold 'really' won.

So, the sacrifice to win a Mr. O title today must be greater than 30 or even 10 years ago. Just makes you wonder how the sport will look like in another 30 years. Jeez!!

"From various websites, including the IFBB website, here is the information that we have about the 1971 Mr. Olympia. "Arnold took the title unopposed in 1971. For the first time, the show was held outside of New York. The Mr. Olympia contest was held in Paris the same day as the NABBA Universe was held in London. Arnold, with his loyalty 100% behind the IFBB, competed in the Mr. Olympia while other great champions of that year chose to avoid Arnold and compete in the NABBA competition."

http://www.getbig.com/news/2002-03/082702mro1971.htm

[Trianon]

I still would not belittle Arnold's achievements, in bb-ing or anywhere else. What's the point in diggin' this stuff up? By charisma, success and his impact on popularity of bodybuilding yes, he is THE GREATEST, THE ONE AND ONLY.

[BigDude]

I'm not belittling his achievements, especially since he retired once, and could've won at least some of the Olympias during that period of time. But despite his success, I don't think he should be promoted to a 'god' status in body building, though.

No one should be above critisism, IMHO. And the point of digging this stuff up is just.. curiosity. I have nothing against him, he's an amazing guy, when it comes to so many things, but.. I don't think it's going to help anyone to say "Arnold won in 1971, don't ask any questions!!"

[Trianon]

Agreed, curiousity is good, now go read some nutrition books

[maguilagorilla]

Hey Big Dude i agree with what you are saying, i mean i think that Arnold is the greatest "thing" to happen to bb but i dont think he is beyond critisim,i dont think he is the greatest bb ever i mean haney has more sandows and the guys of today are def bigger,and that was real enlightning because i didnt know that about the '71 olympia,not that it matters anymore becauseits water under the bridge,but remember the '80olympia? there was alot of contrversy there also like i said before imo he is the greatest"thing" to happen to bb no"the" greatest bb of all time

[The French Curler]

I believe that Arnold has the most pleasing physique ever, and the most sought after physique. He wasn't the biggest but that's not what makes him great.

[cube]

that sort of thing happened a lot back then - there just were'nt as many bb'ers. i'm not belittling anyone's acheivments, but there was less competition back in the day compared to now where 20 guys are up on stage.

here's the results from the early olympias

1965: 1 Scott, Larry 2 Poole, Harold 3 Maynard, Earl
1966: 1 Scott, Larry 2 Poole, Harold 3 Sipes, Chuck 4 Oliva, Sergio
1967: 1 Oliva, Sergio 2 Sipes, Chuck 3 Poole, Harold 4 Draper, Dave
1968: 1 Oliva, Sergio
1969: 1 Oliva, Sergio 2 Schwarzenegger, Arnold
1970: 1 Schwarzenegger, Arnold 2 Oliva, Sergio 3 Lewis, Reg
1971: 1 Schwarzenegger, Arnold - Ayoub, Ahmed - Gallostra, Jaime
1972: 1 Schwarzenegger, Arnold 2 Oliva, Sergio 3 Nubret, Serge 4 Zane, Frank 5 Columbu, Franco
1973: 1 Schwarzenegger, Arnold 2 Columbu, Franco 2 Nubret, Serge

[BigDude]

"1971: 1 Schwarzenegger, Arnold - Ayoub, Ahmed - Gallostra, Jaime"

Who the heck are these guys? It's like Mr. O 2002 results were
1. Ronnie Coleman 2. Darrem Charles 3. Greg Kovacs

In some photos, Oliva looks AMAZING, even by todays standards. Just makes you wonder, if only three people competed in Mr. O, based on previous years results. It's like not letting Ronnie compete in his first Mr. O win, because he was only 9th the previous year.

I don't know about you guys, but in my mind, there's a few uncrowned Mr. O's out there, that lost because of politics. Here's a few: Mentzer, Robinson, Levrone etc. I'm not trying to take anything away from Mr. O's, they're all awesome, but as much as I like Dorian, he was disgusting at worst, and Levrone should've won the title at least once. Mentzer looked awesome at best, but somehow Arnie always won. Robinson was way ahead of his time, no doubt about that. So was Oliva, but at least he won. Flex Wheeler never got his shit together at the "O", so in that sense he doesn't deserve a Mr. O title, even though physique-wise he's been the best ever (at AC a couple of times).

[cube]

bigdude - i think what happened was that a lot of other bb'ers competed in the Mr Universe instead of the O. these 2 guys competed anyway, they are officially listed as "did not place". seems pretty bad when there are 3 competitors and the ifbb refuse to place 2 of them (doesn't sound like they were any good, but i can't seem to find photos of them anywhere).

there are definitely a few years where something strange was going on, i feel sorry for guys like mentzer and robinson. it seems like once you are a mr o, you don't lose until you retire.

[Arnold_Is_God]

Originally posted by BigDude
I'm not belittling his achievements, especially since he retired once, and could've won at least some of the Olympias during that period of time. But despite his success, I don't think he should be promoted to a 'god' status in body building, though.

I agree arnold shouldn't be put into a God status. wait....lol

[PrOviRoN]

That era od BB was the greatest ! Arnold EUROPIAN POWER!

[Stormrider]

Haney is the greatest of all time in my opoin. He did have a lot more competition back in the day. Platz and especially Gaspari breathing down his neck.

[ZachG_85]

Haney is the man. Bigger than arnie, tiny-ass waist.

As for Arnold, in 1970 he tricked Sergio into LEAVING, the next year he got the prejudging in a dark wood-paneled room, so Sergio practically vanished.

Let's not also forget his "tell jokes to his competitors while posing" tactics.

[Warrior]

Originally posted by BigDude
But despite his success, I don't think he should be promoted to a 'god' status in body building, though.

Arnold brought bodybuilding to the mainstream and he still continues to push it today. When he stopped competing and started doing movies and such, he deffinitly made the public associatition to bodybuilders having a German accent - but he showed the world what a good physique looked like at such an enourmous size... the people not directly involved with bodybuilding - mostly on the big screen.

I still think Arnold has one of the best physiques ever, Flex Wheeler "was" one of my recent favorites.

IMO - had there been no Arnold, bodybuilding wouldn't have progresses as well as it did in the 80's and into the 90's.

[malahat]

To see Arnold as he looked in 1969 see HERCULES IN NEW YORK - tapes now under $10 at Amazon.com. The copy from iNetVideo.com has the original voice track: Arnie's thick Austrian voice trying to pass for a Greek accent!

[malahat]

I'll do a couple more while I can find the file:

[malahat]

The DVD release may also have the original voicing on it

[malahat]

The director, one Arthur Seidelman, has done a number of other films, none of them known as classics. He seems to be able to get the product made with limited budgets and financing, and gives us one real arm close-up.

[zzo18]

I think the FrenchCurler said it well. Arnold may not be the biggest bb to ever live but, at least when he was in competition, this wasn't his desire. He was never shy about his intentions. He was attempting to create an 'ideal' form that involved perfect symmetry, proportion, and shape. It wasn't simply about size. I may be biased because I am a big Arnold fan but I would argue that Arnold had the best overall 'presentation' that bbing has ever seen. Furthermore, look at pics of Arnold in the off season...he was alot smaller than in contest mode. This is a far cry from guys of today like Coleman and Priest who balloon up in the off-season. Maybe overdoing it on the juice just a bit?!? I think that many established fans of the sport of bbing wouldn't mind seeing a transition back to certain characteristics of yesteryear. Just my two cents...

-zzo

[BIG TEXAN]

I agree withZZO 18. I prefer the look of those guys in the 60's and 70' compared to now a days. Yes the freakish look is in but I don't care for it much. I'm just wondering how much bigger can these guys get. If they start taking anymore drugs they'll be dropping like flies. Hell Ronnie himself in one cycle probably does enough juice to supply every horse at the Kentucky derby! LOL

[zzo18]