hGH FRAGMENT 177-191

[sheltonn]

Can someone provide some information on this? Dosages, etc. Sounds awesome and so much cheaper than hgh.

[jokerswild]

Yeah, anyone out there that can please help out with info on this new product would be cool. Thanks

[mister.fantastic]

Can someone provide some information on this? Dosages, etc. Sounds awesome and so much cheaper than hgh.

Here is a piece of a study about the fragment. The entire study can be found at http://endo.endojournals.org/cgi/co...ull/142/12/5182




It is well established that hGH is a lipolytic hormone (15), but the exact mechanisms used are still unclear. In this paper we present data that suggest that hGH and its lipolytic fragment (AOD9604) induce their chronic in vivo actions on lipolysis in part by modulating the expression of the ß3-AR. Human GH has been shown to affect the in vivo expression and function of ß-ARs in vivo in sheep (16). Data presented in this paper indicate that chronic administration of hGH influences expression of the ß3-AR in adipose tissue in the ob/ob mouse. In brown adipose tissue (BAT), these compounds also increase expression of ß3-AR expression in the lean C57BL/6J mouse. The increase in expression induced by chronic hGH or AOD9604 treatment correlated with the decrease in adipose tissue mass. We therefore hypothesize that treatment with either hGH or AOD9604 enhances ß3-AR expression, which has been observed in murine 3T3-F442A and human SK-N-MC cells in vitro (11).

Both AOD9604 and, to a greater extent, hGH increase body weight in lean mice, compared with saline-treated animals. This is in the absence of an increase in fat mass, which suggests an increase in lean body mass occurs with these compounds. This supports previous work with hGH in rodents and humans (17). Both compounds have also been previously shown to reduce body weight and adiposity in obese mice (11). The effects of hGH and AOD9604 occur without significant changes to caloric intake. It has been reported that hGH increases, reduces, or does not change food intake in which the differences are attributed to variations in hGH preparations, concentrations, and animals used between different laboratories.

The effects of hGH and AOD9604 on fat metabolism may be mediated by an alteration in the expression of a lipolytic/antilipogenic gene. The ß3-AR is a major lipolytic receptor identified in rodent fat cells (18) that mediates its effects through G protein coupling to adenylate cyclase, generation of cAMP, and stimulation of PKA (19). This enzyme then phosphorylates proteins in the lipolytic cascade, including hormone-sensitive lipase (20). In BAT, the ß3-AR stimulates uncoupling of the electron transport chain, enhancing the ability of mitochondria to generate heat in preference to ATP through the dissipation of the electron gradient (21). Mice that lack this receptor have lower rates of resting energy expenditure (0.0041 vs. 0.0047 kcal/min, P < 0.02) and lower rates of fat oxidation (0.00019 vs. 0.00030 g/min, P < 0.02) than control mice (data not shown).

AOD9604 and hGH appear to act in a similar manner to induce their effects on body weight regulation and adipose tissue mass in vivo. However, in vitro studies have demonstrated a number of differences suggesting that the two compounds operate via unique signaling pathways to control the regulation of the ß3-AR. These studies suggested that AOD9604 had no interaction with the ß3-AR or hGH receptors (11).

In lean animals, neither AOD9604 nor hGH had any effect on epididymal white adipose tissue mass or expression of ß3-AR RNA, indicating that in lean animals, this fat tissue is not a major target for these drugs in this study. In contrast, the mass of BAT in lean animals was reduced by both hGH and AOD9604, and ß3-AR RNA expression was increased by both these compounds. This could possibly suggest that the increased expression of ß3-ARs in brown adipocytes sensitizes catecholamines to dissipate heat.

In ob/ob mice, both AOD9604 and hGH reduced both white and brown adipose tissue mass and increased ß3-AR RNA expression. This suggested that an elevation in ß3-AR RNA expression is associated with increased fat metabolism and a reduction in the fat tissue mass in the ob/ob mouse model. Obese mice have lower levels of ß3-AR expression in their adipose tissues than lean mice, shown in this study and others (14). The ability of AOD9604 and hGH to increase the level of ß3-AR RNA expression in obese mice to a level that is comparable to those in lean mice is an exciting finding. However, it must also be considered that both hGH and AOD9604 may influence the expression of other members of the adrenergic pathway, such as the ß1-ARs, hormonesensitive lipase, and signaling proteins, which are all expressed in adipose tissue and associated with lipolysis. The importance of the change in ß3-AR expression with AOD9604 and hGH in humans is not established and will depend on the use of potent and selective ß3-AR agonists that are active at the human receptor.

From this study it appears that the ß3-AR is an important contributor to the effects observed on body weight in obese mice treated with AOD9604 and hGH. To determine whether the ß3-AR is partly responsible for this effect, we examined the effects of AOD9604 and hGH in the ß3-KO mouse. The ß3-KO mouse is not grossly obese, but female mice have increased fat depots (21) and the mice do develop late-onset obesity (Summers, R. J., personal communication). AOD9604 and hGH increased body mass and decreased BAT mass in the WT strain but had no effect in the KO animals. In WT mice, plasma glycerol was increased in response to AOD9604 and hGH treatment (4 wk). However, in the KO mice, only hGH resulted in increased levels of glycerol in the KO mice, and this effect was significantly less than that observed in the WT mice. This suggests that the regulation of the ß3-AR is essential in the ability of AOD9604 and hGH to mediate chronic effects on lipolysis and fat mass reduction.

The effect of AOD9604 and hGH on ß3-ARs in adipose tissue is believed to be a direct action of these compounds and not an effect secondary to the fat metabolism, given that both AOD9604 and hGH can influence ß3-AR expression and function in a nonadipocyte human cell line (11). Hence, the ß3-AR appears to be necessary for the chronic effectiveness of AOD9604 on lipolysis in BAT.

The acute effect of AOD9604 and BRL37344 (a ß3-AR agonist) on energy expenditure and substrate oxidation rates in WT and KO mice was also assessed. KO animals had lower energy expenditure, lower fat oxidation, and increased glucose oxidation, compared with the WT controls (data not shown). Injection of WT mice with a single dose of BRL37344 or AOD9604 increased energy expenditure and fat oxidation and decreased glucose oxidation. In the KO animals, BRL37344 failed to elicit any response in these metabolic parameters, clearly demonstrating that its effects are mediated exclusively through the ß3-AR. AOD9604 did elicit a response in the KO mice, increasing fat oxidation and energy expenditure, although the response was not as great as in WT mice, suggesting that ß3-ARs are not responsible for the acute biological response of AOD9604 on lipid metabolism. This is consistent with our previous findings in which AOD9604 was shown not to bind to the ß3-AR (11). The size and duration of the metabolic responses to AOD9604 in the ß3-AR KO animals was different from that observed in the control wild-type mice. The response was more rapid, shorter in duration, and greater in peak response. This may be because the KO animals are more acutely sensitive to lipolytic agents, a compensation for the ablation of the major lipolytic receptor.

These findings suggest that the acute effects of AOD9604 are quite different from the chronic effects. Enhanced ß3-AR expression appears to play a major role in the chronic effectiveness of the compound in terms of fat metabolism and weight loss. The acute effects observed in this study confirm that the ß3-AR is not the sole mediator of this action. The increase in ß3-AR expression in response to hGH and AOD9604 would permit enhanced lipolytic sensitivity. Identification of the components of the intracellular pathway(s) and effector(s) activated by AOD9604 are currently being investigated. The results presented in this paper suggest that the effectiveness of AOD9604 and hGH may partly rely on their ability to increase levels of ß3-AR RNA expression in models of obesity in which the numbers of the lipolytic receptor are low. These unique properties may give AOD9604 an advantage over other lipolytic agonists such as adrenergic agents and hGH, which exhibit undesirable side effects when administered chronically (22).

[ruffcute]

how are you meant to use this stuff (http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...roducts_id=126)
what kind of dose are we looking at here lion?

[sheltonn]

That is the big question.

how are you meant to use this stuff (http://www.ar-r.com/shop/product_inf...roducts_id=126)
what kind of dose are we looking at here lion?

[roc1292]

I would like to know as well

[sickram]

I would like to know as well

Bump

[RUI-Products]

I have seen it dose at 200 mcg a day. I will be running it that way myself. With Pics and timeline. I start tomarro

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I have seen it dose at 200 mcg a day. I will be running it that way myself. With Pics and timeline. I start tomarro

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

[sickram]

I have seen it dose at 200 mcg a day. I will be running it that way myself. With Pics and timeline. I start tomarro

Thanks lion will be waiting for your posts. Cant wail to see how it does.

[BrokenBricks]

The human trials were done with 1 to 30 mg a day, oraly. Are you injecting this sub q and hoping you dont need as much as the oral doses?

[jokerswild]

Lion, I'm curious to know if the difference in the structure as opposed to thermogenic compounds would enable a person to use this while on a cycle from beginning to end. Common to ones cycle, fat burning agents are reserved for the cutting stage but I'm curious to know if this stuff is so radical as to allow a favorable environment for muscle growth throughout phase of use. Please advise of the timeline you intend to use for as well.

Great question BrokenBricks. I'd like to know too.

[jw1095]

1-30mg's is a far cry from 200mcg. I hope 200mcgs is a good dose because at $50 for 2mgs even 1mg a day would be vary expensive. I assume it was ment to be sub q injected, but please let us know lion.

[jokerswild]

1-30mg's is a far cry from 200mcg. I hope 200mcgs is a good dose because at $50 for 2mgs even 1mg a day would be vary expensive. I assume it was ment to be sub q injected, but please let us know lion.

How long though is a critical question. I'll assume until further info. is posted, that it could be used until desired results are met. An aggressive approach with clean dieting and cardio is giving me a vision of 10-days to rice-paper skin rippedness. Comments, anyone?

[richard_orchard]

I would be interested in this info as well... If Lion could help us out.

[richard_orchard]

i have taken the plunge... I will start using the week beginning the 16th. I will use the 200mcg dose. i will keep you informed how i go.

Richard

[jw1095]

I baught a couple vials. I am using 200mcs a day and am on day two. It seems that the "powder" is not dissolving in the solution provided, and the directions are for IGF not the product. I am refrigerating and doing sub Q injections not intermuscular. Please, Lion give us some more info.

[jokerswild]

I baught a couple vials. I am using 200mcs a day and am on day two. It seems that the "powder" is not dissolving in the solution provided, and the directions are for IGF not the product. I am refrigerating and doing sub Q injections not intermuscular. Please, Lion give us some more info.

Mine arrived yesterday and research is ready to commence so to those with the brain power please throw the dogs a bone already. This seems to be the latest and greatest...ONLY if it's understood and undertaken properly however. I'm damn anxious for more info. Is there a pill I can take for patience?

[RUI-Products]

We will see guys. The math says 200 mcg is a good place to start. The studies show that women need less that men. Please keep us up dated in your experence's

[hardgainer12]

how much is in a mg? 200 mcg?

[jw1095]

The directions that came with it are for IGF, but the say 1mg equals 1000mcs. Correct me if I am wrong , but if you put 100 units of the solution that comes with it in the vial. Then 10 units ( the vial has 2mgs) would be 200mcs. I have been doing 200mcs a day for 4 days and am seeing a small but noticable fat loss. I am considering doing 300mcs a day, but am not going to untill I have been doing it for 10 days.

[RUI-Products]

JW please stay the course. As you loosefat it will start being more effective ie there will be less fat to loose.

Hardgainer there are 1000 mcg in 1 mg.

[sheltonn]

I have a very small vial with the fragment and a plastic container with the water. What do we do with the large glass vial?

[RUI-Products]

You draw 2 mls of water mix it in the small vial. Then you take the solution a drae that out and put in the 10 cc vial. Finaly you add the remaining water. Your end product will give you 10 ml @ 200 mcg per ml

[Drkodiak1]

Like many people on here i have tons of questions...bit ill just ask the most fundemental ones.

1. When is the best time of day to administer? AM, PM, Post workout ect
2. How effective is this product in regards to fat loss compared to DNP , Clen , etc... Where would it rank, as being far superior or far less superior to those above mentioned products
3. Should it be injected sub-q or IM
4. What is the onset time for it to take effect. What is the half-life
5. How long should it be cycled for
6. Can it be taken along with Clen and or other fat burners
7. Maybe someone with knowledge can create a sticky

[sheltonn]

OK. Mission accomplished, but .....

The solution looks like a snow globe. The powder does not appear to have dissolved at all. I even let it sit over night in the refrigerator. No change.

Is this right?????

You draw 2 mls of water mix it in the small vial. Then you take the solution a drae that out and put in the 10 cc vial. Finaly you add the remaining water. Your end product will give you 10 ml @ 200 mcg per ml

[ngreen23]

I know one problem at a time. But I've bought a lot of the 1gf growth in the past and I never used the 10 cc bottle I just added the 3 cc of water solution and took (filled up needle) like only 1/10 of the 1cc needle twice a day. Does that make since? I did the math and it came out to be the right reccomended max dosage. I guess If you put it in the 10 cc vial you could pull alot more out per shot. Let me know what you think is better. I plan on keep buying it and will prob definitely try this soon as well.
thanks bud!!

[Drkodiak1]

Was wondering if anyone has starting a log on there results with this product and would like to post it

[kalla]

bump

[peteroy01]

i havent started a log but ive been on it at 200mcg ed for 3.5 wks and i havent noticed a single result. im like NGREEN23 and ordered tons of stuff from lion but im very disapointed

[allsafe]

I ordered 4 kits for my wife. I call my female test rat wife, it seems to like it. NeWay my wife is injecting sub at 50iu ED. I thot it wud be a good start, and may be that she stay there at that dose or move up to 1cc in a couple of weeks. She is planning to start 20-30 mgs of Var soon too. Will closely monitor everything.

I have a cool ass rat I call self. Self is using hgh proper for 2 mos now at 30iu ED. Noticeable dif in eliminating water retention, so I'm sure if the peptide was processed properly then it too will have the effect it solicits. Self is also testing 400mcg deca and 550mcg enth muscle 1x week. The gh really does help out for water retention. Also Lion's letro spray is seemingly working wonders on the gyno issue.

As far as the powder dissolving, had no issue. I read up on all the forum feedback and discussion so I'll reiterate what I read.

Only use 1 cc bacteriostatic water to start, swirl in your hand (not shake) for about 15 minutes. Introduce the other 1cc water and then swirl and shake gently. All but the smallest compound will dissolve. Let that little vial sit in fridge overnight. When u pull it out, inspect for particles. Swirl and gently aggitate the small vial. Withdraw the solution from the small vial and inject it into the larger provided vial. Inject 8 cc's of water into the larger vial. Swirl and store. Worked great.

[spywizard]

20-30mg var.. so you like men do ya???

they typical dose for women
1-2 5mg
3-8 10mg

good luck with all that though..

[allsafe]

well that was funny... but ya, for something really interesting =)

i am open to input, but am going with those numbers as they are the typical dosage listed for women in printed material that refers to var and women.

[ShadyMilkman]

I looked around for more info on hgh 177-191 and it lead me to a pharmeceutical company in Australia that is patenting it. I read one of their double-blind placebo based studies using .25mg .5mg and 1mg and placebo (all orally) over 12 weeks. Results showed 4.5-5lb of weight loss over placebo on average. The study used 536 subjects and primarily looked for those with a waist over 40 inches and a BMI of 30-45 kg/m2 (metric of course). I know this is only one study, but does anyone else have any similar info?

I like what the studies said on all the non-human subjects, but it doesn't seem like theres much out there for humans.

Edit: I also found this:
"A trial on 300 patients found overweight people who took Metabolic's drug lost on average 2.8 kilos over 12 weeks, about the same weight loss achievable with the two main existing weight-loss drugs, while patients who took a placebo lost 0.8 kg."

So, 6lbs in 12 weeks.

Edit: And another:
"Previous human trials have suggested weight loss of about 2kgs above placebo, over a three month period. This is similar in amount of effect to most other drugs, many of which have been, are, or are projected to be significant commercial successes. Thus with similar levels of effect, but a cleaner side effect profile, AOD9604 should be very commercially viable, if later stage trials confirm the data seen in trials completed so far."

Edit: One last one:
"The 300 trial subjects were comprised of men and women aged 30 to 65 years with a body mass index (or BMI, being weight in kg divided by the square of height in meters) of 35 or higher. Trial subjects received daily doses of AOD9604 or placebo in 0mg (placebo), 1mg, 5mg, 10mg, 20mg, or 30mg quantities. There were 50 subjects in each dose group. The average age of the trial participants was 44 years and their average weight was 122 kilograms (268 lbs). The trial was randomized, double blind and placebo-controlled.

The primary efficacy endpoints of the study were to determine the effect of AOD9604 on body weight reduction and/or fat reduction. The group receiving the 1mg dose lost the most weight, averaging a weight loss over the 12 weeks of 2.8 kilograms (6.2 lbs), more than triple the weight lost by those on placebo, who lost an average of 0.8 kilograms (1.8 lbs). The rate of weight loss was maintained throughout the treatment period, which is an encouraging trend for expectations of longer-term dosing."