Steroids and protein intake.

[Ronnie Rowland]

To recap what Nasser said-"The more protein, the better the muscles will build up."

The best time to take in large amounts of protein is during your reloads/higher volume training phases. Like Nasser also stated-he needed a break from all the high protein because it can get old trying to stomach around 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. This is where the deload comes into play!

The take home message is to cycle both diet and training along with your anabolic cycles if you want to make the best gains possible.

[Ronnie Rowland]

IMPORTANT: Your main goal while using steroids is to add mass while minimizing fat gains. It's not the drug but the diet that makes this happen! I believe there are still a lot of people on this board taking steroids that are not consuming enough protein to make it happen.

Another Slingshot Training diet for bulking. Some of my clients prefer this method of protein cycling over the other as it's easier to follow. I don't think one method has an advantge over the other. It's just a matter of which one you prefer following.

I'll use a daily 6 meal plan sample at the bottom of this page for illustration purposes. Note that fats and carbs are kept separated for the most part. This deters ingested dietary fats from becoming stored as body fat during insulin spikes. Carbs are also cut off at night. Cutting off carbs prevents them from being stored as fat while you sleep.

No every other day calorie cycling is needed but can be utilized if needed.
Protein is still reduced by half during deloads and carbs are slightly reduced as well. The carb and protein cals are repalced with fat calories to improve insulin sensitivity before embarking on another reload. Some cannot seem to get away from carbs or dislike a lot of fats during a deload-for these people I still recommend cutting protein in half and simply replacing them with carb cals.

The main take home point of this entire thread is to decrease protein during a deload so that when you come back to a reload you can better stomach the needed protein to make the best gains possible. The second take home point is to keep carbs and fats seperated for the most part adn cut them off at night. If you function better on more carbs you'll need to take in less fats. If you do best taking in more fats you'll need less carbs. Combine these principles with protein cycling and proper periodization in your workouts and you will make the leanest and fastest gains possible.

I realize this is the drug forum but drugs aren't very effective without having the proper nutrition. The veterans on this board are constanlty preaching such but it tends to fall on death ears. I hope people will take the time to study what is written in this thread. I've seen some amazing transformations by guys using steroids when these principles where applied. My motto is if you are going to do something then do it right or don't do it at all..


Workout days:

Meal 1-protein/carbs
Meal 2-protein/fats
Meal 3-protein/carbs (pre-workout meal)
Workout
Meal 4 protein/carbs (post workout protein shake/fast acting carbs)
Meal 4 extended protein/carbs (post workout meal)
Meal 5-protein/fats
Meal 6-protein/fats

Non-workout days:


Meal 1-protein/carbs
Meal 2-protein/fats
Meal 3-protein/carbs
Meal 4 protein/fats
Meal 5-protein/carbs
Meal 6-protein/fats

The first 3 melas can also be p/c while the last 3 p/f. If you are having trouble gaining weight take in one meal each day combined of both carbs and fats. Later in the day is best because eating fats/carbs together are hard to digest and can prevent you from eating enough meals. These c/f meals can be fast foods if desired but try to eat as healthy as possible to keep cholestrol in check. Steroids combined with too much fast food is very hard on your heart due to steroids lowering your healthy cholesterol. Cardio done 2-3 times per week for 15-30 mins on non-leg training day will both increase appetite and reduce bad cholesterol.

Important Note: If you can't do the diet then I say hold off on taking steroids until you can get the mindset to do things right.

[Ronnie Rowland]

do you use any supplements to detox during the deload week?

Phate, I wanted to elaborate on this in more detail. As mentioned above supplements would probably not be neccessary during a deload when using injectables but when using orals it would be a good idea. Take the mass cycle below for example:

24 week cycle:

Test Enanthate weeks 1-24
Tren Enanthate weeks 1-24
D-bol-8 weeks on/2 weeks off for entire 24 weeks

Note:In this particular situation one could reload for 8 weeks while stacking all three anabolics. During the two week deload drop the d-bol adn reduce test by half. A liver-detox along with cutting protein intake to about half would be a good plan during this two weeks. When you entered back into the eight week reload protein intake would double, the d-bol would be added back into the cycle for another 8 weeks, as well as teh full dose of test or even a little more and the liver-detox would be discontinued until the next deload. This protocol would continue for the entire 24 weeks or until you wanted to do an extended PCT or bridge for 8 weeks.

[RusselGaint]

Hi Ronnie, I like the post and find it very intersting. What fats do you eat in your protein/fat meals?

[TractionIssues]

Phate, I wanted to elaborate on this in more detail. As mentioned above supplements would probably not be neccessary during a deload when using injectables but when using orals it would be a good idea. Take the mass cycle below for example:

24 week cycle:

Test Enanthate weeks 1-24
Tren Enanthate weeks 1-24
D-bol-4 weeks on/2 weeks off for entire 24 weeks

Note:In this particular situation one could reload for 4 weeks while stacking all three anabolics. During the two week deload only the d-bol would be dropped. A liver-detox along with cutting protein intake to about half would be a good plan during this two weeks. When you entered back into the four week reload protein intake would double, the d-bol would be added back into teh cycle for another 4 weeks, and the liver-detox would be discontinued until the next deload. This protocol would continue for the entire 24 weeks. Then a PCT or bridge could be utilized.

That's alot of Dbol, I would be worried about my liver, but I definitely see the potential for size with that type of cycle.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Hi Ronnie, I like the post and find it very intersting. What fats do you eat in your protein/fat meals?

I prefer:

Extra virgin olive oil on various white meats-chicken, fish and such. I like macadamia nut oil as well. Dave Palumbo sells this nutty flavored macadamia oil at species nutrition. It's a bit more expensive than extra virgin olive oil but taste awesome. My wife loves the stuff!!!

Cashews halves (I especially like these on large green leaf romaine salads with quite a bit of olive oil and some parmesean cheese to top it off. I add meats sometimes as well -canned meat and meat just baked or grilled. The ones with sea salt are very addictive.

Emerald's chocolate almonds are delicious.

Macadamia nuts are good. I prefer MAUNA LOA brand from walmart.

I eat a ton of smart balance peanut butter. It's especially good in my cookies and cream-isolate whey protein shakes. Just add water, and an ice cube to the protein powder and peanut butter- stir and it make a great healthy desert. I use a spoon to eat the left over peanut butter at the bottom. My wifes favorite healthy desert!!!

Whole *****-3 enriched eggs. I like egglands best.

Walnuts are good.

Avocados are good.

I get some some saturated fats from eggs, cheese and red meat (lean red meats unless cheat meal).

[Ronnie Rowland]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland
Phate, I wanted to elaborate on this in more detail. As mentioned above supplements would probably not be neccessary during a deload when using injectables but when using orals it would be a good idea. Take the mass cycle below for example:

24 week cycle:

That's alot of Dbol, I would be worried about my liver, but I definitely see the potential for size with that type of cycle.

You could skip the d-bol and use tren acetate in it's place. For example-

24 week cycle without d-bol:

Test Enanthate weeks 1-24
Tren Acetate 8 weeks on/2 weeks off for entire 24 weeks


Note: In this particular situation one could reload for 8 weeks while stacking both anabolics. During the two week deload the tren ace would be dropped and you would be drop test dosage by half. When you entered back into the 8 week reload protein intake would double and the tren ace and additional test would be added back into the cycle for another 8 weeks until the next 1-2 week deload. This protocol would continue for the entire 24 weeks. Then a PCT or bridge could be utilized.

[stpete]

Very informative and definetely something to think about. Thanks Ronnie.

[TractionIssues]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland
Phate, I wanted to elaborate on this in more detail. As mentioned above supplements would probably not be neccessary during a deload when using injectables but when using orals it would be a good idea. Take the mass cycle below for example:

24 week cycle:

Test Enanthate weeks 1-24
Tren Enanthate weeks 1-24
D-bol-4 weeks on/2 weeks off for entire 24 weeks

Note:In this particular situation one could reload for 4 weeks while stacking all three anabolics. During the two week deload only the d-bol would be dropped. A liver-detox along with cutting protein intake to about half would be a good plan during this two weeks. When you entered back into the four week reload protein intake would double, the d-bol would be added back into teh cycle for another 4 weeks, and the liver-detox would be discontinued until the next deload. This protocol would continue for the entire 24 weeks. Then a PCT or bridge could be utilized.

That's alot of Dbol, I would be worried about my liver, but I definitely see the potential for size with that type of cycle.

You could skip the d-bol and use tren acetate in it's place. For example-

24 week cycle without d-bol:

Test Enanthate weeks 1-24
Tren Acetate 4 weeks on/2 weeks off for entire 24 weeks


Note: In this particular situation one could reload for 4 weeks while stacking both anabolics. During the two week deload only the tren ace would be dropped and you would be running straight test. When you entered back into the four week reload protein intake would double and the tren ace would be added back into the cycle for another 4 weeks until the next deload. This protocol would continue for the entire 24 weeks. Then a PCT or bridge could be utilized.

Interesting... and do you utilize this method? Would this not cause spiking blood levels and more sides? And I'm guessing it would take a slightly harsher PCT?

[CaliPhotog]

Just wanted to say thanks, and give you props for a great post. Awesome read and something that I never considered. Thanks!

[RusselGaint]

Thanks ronnie for your information!

[dariush]

tanx ronnie
u said to use protein & carb after workout when we on cutting cycle can run pro & carb together after workout?

[Ronnie Rowland]

Interesting... and do you utilize this method? MY CLIENTS HAVE UTILIZED THIS METHOD WITH GREAT SUCCESS FOR MANY YEARS.Would this not cause spiking blood levels and more sides? NOT A PROBLEM! MOST GAINS ARE MADE DURING THE FIRST 8 WEEKS OF USING A FAST ACTING DRUG LIKE TREN ACE. THERE'S NO ESCAPING THE BODIES ACTION/REACTION FACTORS. SOME USE CREATINE WITH SUCCESS DURING A TWO WEEK DELOAD WHEN DROPPING THE TREN ACE. And I'm guessing it would take a slightly harsher PCT? WELL, THAT WOULD DEPEND ON THE PERSON. REMEMBER, THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BEING HALF PREGNANT AND THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS BEING HALF SHUT DOWN. YOU ARE EITHER SHUT DOWN OR YOU ARE NOT.

Answers above in bold.

[Ronnie Rowland]

tanx ronnie
u said to use protein & carb after workout when we on cutting cycle can run pro & carb together after workout?

Yes! Combine them both post-workout so the insulin produced from the carbs will push the amino acids derived from the protein into the muscle cells.

[TractionIssues]

Answers above in bold.

Good info. I just thought it might take a harsher PCT due to it being 24 months compared to the average 12 month cycle. I will continue to research into this, and think I will incorporate it into one of my cycles and see how effective it works for me.

[J-Roc]

he needed a break from all the high protein because it can get old trying to stomach around 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight. This is where the deload comes into play!

Wow. This is EXACTLY how I've been feeling after following a high protein diet for over 8 months. I was feeling sick and tired (literally) and checked out the forum to see what other peeps had to say and came across this post.

Thanks for the info Ronnie. I've dropped my protein and increased my good fats this past week and have much more energy and actually feel harder too... I would have never thought. Eating is fun again.

[triad200]

Superb info... thanks Ronnie. Sounds like deloading is preventing the body from adapting by temporarily:

• reducing workout volume
• reducing protein

So my question is: would the same logic apply to levels of AAS? For instance, if I'm running 1g/week for 12 weeks, should I drop that down during the deload week? I'm thinking receptor saturation / body adjusting to high levels of exogenous test. Who knows, maybe this doesn't make sense to do. (Then again, I wouldn't have thought deloading made sense either before reading this thread!)

[Ronnie Rowland]

Wow. This is EXACTLY how I've been feeling after following a high protein diet for over 8 months. I was feeling sick and tired (literally) and checked out the forum to see what other peeps had to say and came across this post.

Thanks for the info Ronnie. I've dropped my protein and increased my good fats this past week and have much more energy and actually feel harder too... I would have never thought. Eating is fun again.

What you just described is a scenario I have witnesses time and time again. I'm glad to be of help!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Superb info... thanks Ronnie. Sounds like deloading is preventing the body from adapting by temporarily:

• reducing workout volume
• reducing protein

So my question is: would the same logic apply to levels of AAS? For instance, if I'm running 1g/week for 12 weeks, should I drop that down during the deload week? I'm thinking receptor saturation / body adjusting to high levels of exogenous test. Who knows, maybe this doesn't make sense to do. (Then again, I wouldn't have thought deloading made sense either before reading this thread!)

The way to make adjustments with test enanthate would be to reduce the dosage fter 8 weeks of reloading.

[Ronnie Rowland]

Don't forget your hyperinsulinemia meals for added mass!

You have the option of adding 1 hyperinsulinemia meal (combining saturated carbs and hi gi carbs) once a day. I think most know that Dave Palumbo was known for going to McDonalds once a day and eating fries and burgers for his once a day hyperinsulinemia meal. The rest of his off-season diet consisted of separating carbs and fats to a large degree. Dave's super fast metabolism allowed him to eat a large high calorie meal composed of both fats/carbs on a daily basis. Obvioulsy, not everyone has the metabolic rate to do this. But, if you do have a fast metabolism I would take in this hyper meal either for breakfast in the form of something like whole eggs and pancakes/waffles or during an evening meal post workout for something like red meat and potatoes. Some have such a slow metabolic rate they have to limit hyperinsulin meals to 1-3 times per week. Eat to match your metabolism!

Carbs and fats will be eaten together in one to seven meal per weeks (hyperinsulinemia meal) as opposed to separating them like you should in a cutting phase. Combining fats and carbs in some of the same meals during an off-season blast will create a better muscle building effect and increase energy output so you can lift heavier weights. Increased insulin levels obtained by combining hi gi carbs and saturated fats during a blasting mass phase will suppress the muscle wasting hormone cortisol which induces protein synthesis. Elevated insulin levels will also down regulate SHBG (Sex Hormone Binding Globulin). High SHBG levels are one of the main culprits when testosterone is no longer working in conjunction with a good training program. SHBG prevents testosterone from fitting into the receptors. (Bound testosterone) equals about 97-99 percent of total testosterone circulation while (free testosterone) equals about 1-3 percent of total test. When SHGB levels are kept low it allows free testosterone to fit into the receptor and make muscles grow at a faster rate. Therefore, making a low carb diet or low fat diet, less than optimal during a bulking up phase! There's no value in mixing a lot of carbs and fat together in one meal (except the once daily hyperinsulinemia meal) because doing so will slow down the digestive tract and cause bloating-hence preventing you from eating enough clean foods to put on size! It can also cause cause health problems and fat gain. My definition of "hyperinsulinemia" is simpy an insulin spike to the utmost from combining carbs and saturated fats in the same meal

[Tarheel]

Wow! What an awesome article. This is the most informative article that I have read on this forum! I have never heard of it before but am going to try it out starting next week. Thanks dude!

[organized_konfusion]

Amazing read....thanks for the awesome info.

[Bulkn]

+1 Great Stuff!!!
now, when would be the best time to start a cycle of test E? mid reload?
im planning on doing 4 weeks reload, 1 week deload.

[Ronnie Rowland]

+1 Great Stuff!!!
now, when would be the best time to start a cycle of test E? mid reload?
im planning on doing 4 weeks reload, 1 week deload.

Before I can answer-are you planning on running anything else with the test enanthate or is it a test only cycle? If it is just a test cycle how long do you plan on running it?

[Bulkn]

test E only. looking at 11 weeks.

[Ronnie Rowland]

test E only. looking at 11 weeks.

A standard approach for the not so advanced bodybuilder would be to use 750 mgs each week throughout the entire 11 weeks. In other words no changes in dosages would be made during deloads and reloads.

For a very advanced bodybuilder (not sure which category you fall in?) they can get good results by super-saturating their receptors for brief periods and then decreasing dosages before side effects begin to out-weigh the benefits. Below is a sample of how one could super-saturate receptor sites during reloads for 12 weeks using a 4 week reload/1 week deload protocol-

Note: In this scenario test is reduced for 2 weeks after having reloaded for 2 weeks!

[B]
Week 1-8 (reload)-500 grams of test enathate on Monday,Wednesday,Friday
Week 9-10 (deload)-250 grams of test enathate on Monday

[Ronnie Rowland]

Several members have pmed me regarding the deload and carb-up/cheat meals: You should still continue with carb-up/cheat meals when you are deloading. Keep protein intake around half of the reload during these times!