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  1. #1
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    Quote Originally Posted by chubbsub View Post
    after cardio, I think waiting 30-45 minutes, then having a meal containing protein and complex, fibrous carbs is a better choice b/c they elicit a higher thermogenic response thru digestion than fat does....maybe if you took an ECA stack prior to cardio, could I see an advantage to a pro-fat meal post-cardio....
    I was gonna write out a long response and tell you why you're wrong but I just dont care.

    Keep doing what you're doing...I'll keep staying at 5% bodyfat.

    Keep taking your ECA stack...you realize it makes you catabolic right? You also realize fats require more energy to digest than carbs? Most all food digested takes up about 10% energy for its immediate digestion. Cortisol is also highest after exercise and enzymes for nutrient assimilation are as well...but sure wait 30-45 minutes in a catabolic state to eat.

    Why on earth you would want to refill glycogen after a cardio session is beyond me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    I was gonna write out a long response and tell you why you're wrong but I just dont care.

    Keep doing what you're doing...I'll keep staying at 5% bodyfat.

    Keep taking your ECA stack...you realize it makes you catabolic right? You also realize fats require more energy to digest than carbs? Most all food digested takes up about 10% energy for its immediate digestion. Cortisol is also highest after exercise and enzymes for nutrient assimilation are as well...but sure wait 30-45 minutes in a catabolic state to eat.

    Why on earth you would want to refill glycogen after a cardio session is beyond me.
    Why is it catabolic Bino?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    Why is it catabolic Bino?
    Not sure the exact mechanism but I know in studies that using ephedrine will have a catabolic effect on th ebody.

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    I wait 2 hours after a meal,then kardio for 60 min then I eat whatever is on the diet/meal plan. Could be chicken and rice etc. Thats how I roll. I usually have 2 bananas and 50gram whey after I train and then wait 1 hour before eating next meal,no good?
    Last edited by Critical Mass; 10-10-2009 at 05:21 PM. Reason: Had a question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Not sure the exact mechanism but I know in studies that using ephedrine will have a catabolic effect on th ebody.
    hasn't ephedrine been shown over and over again to be slightly anti-catabolic? going beyond the recommended 25-50mg may slightly change this, but otherwise, it does not have a catabolic effect....

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubbsub View Post
    hasn't ephedrine been shown over and over again to be slightly anti-catabolic? going beyond the recommended 25-50mg may slightly change this, but otherwise, it does not have a catabolic effect....
    Beta-agonists are not "catabolic" in human skeletal muscle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Not sure the exact mechanism but I know in studies that using ephedrine will have a catabolic effect on th ebody.
    I dont think this is actually true after doing my own research on it Bino. I read Pin state it increases ACTH and/or cortisol, but in my own research found nothing at all.

    Ephedrine will actually have a net positive effect on LBM through agonism of muscle adrenoreceptors. Ephedrine also has LBM sparing properties.

    No doubt there is evidence stating beta-agonists show anabolic/anti-catabolic effects in animals, there is ample evidence this is also demonstrated in humans.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    I was gonna write out a long response and tell you why you're wrong but I just dont care.

    Keep doing what you're doing...I'll keep staying at 5% bodyfat.

    Keep taking your ECA stack...you realize it makes you catabolic right? You also realize fats require more energy to digest than carbs? Most all food digested takes up about 10% energy for its immediate digestion. Cortisol is also highest after exercise and enzymes for nutrient assimilation are as well...but sure wait 30-45 minutes in a catabolic state to eat.

    Why on earth you would want to refill glycogen after a cardio session is beyond me.
    so fats elicit a higher thermic effect than fibrous carbs do??? I would love to know which fats.....

    I've been very successful maintaining 6% bf eating carbs PWO, and I will continue to do so....lots of "carb paranoia" 'round here
    Last edited by chubbsub; 10-11-2009 at 03:21 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by chubbsub View Post
    so fats elicit a higher thermic effect than fibrous carbs do??? I would love to know which fats.....

    I've been very successful maintaining 6% bf eating carbs PWO, and I will continue to do so....lots of "carb paranoia" 'round here
    I never once said you can't do carbs PWO and maintain a low bodyfat. I said there is no need for it after cardio.

    And veggies are veggies, you can use them however much you want even WITH fats. Im talking about CARBS...with alpha bonds not beta bonds. Completely different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    I never once said you can't do carbs PWO and maintain a low bodyfat. I said there is no need for it after cardio.

    And veggies are veggies, you can use them however much you want even WITH fats. Im talking about CARBS...with alpha bonds not beta bonds. Completely different.
    Are carbs needed at all PWO Bino? Wouldnt one attain the neccessary insulin increase from BCAA's anyhow, like Leucine supplementation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    Are carbs needed at all PWO Bino? Wouldnt one attain the neccessary insulin increase from BCAA's anyhow, like Leucine supplementation?
    you guys got me curious also. I religiously have a pwo shake w/oats UNLESS its cardio only day where I have the shake w/o oats......BTW, Im cutting right now......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swifto View Post
    Are carbs needed at all PWO Bino? Wouldnt one attain the neccessary insulin increase from BCAA's anyhow, like Leucine supplementation?
    Well the insulin response from BCAA's isnt the same as carbs thats for sure.

    More or less BCAA's are just going to be utilized for ATP production, as they can be converted to glutamine and alanine for use in the krebs cycle.

    They of course increase protein synthesis...but their main function in my eyes around your workouts is to spare glycogen and to reduce fatigue by competing for the same protein receptor carriers are tryptophan, so less tryptophan passes the blood brain barrier for conversion to serotonin.

    But I have had success with going on no carbs PWO. I only do it while dieting mind you. I dont EVER go crazy on carbs even when bulking as I still utilize EFA's as a large part of my nutrition but I do feel carbs are important PWO for increasing protein synthesis and preventing peptide hydrolysis.

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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Why on earth you would want to refill glycogen after a cardio session is beyond me.
    You're talking about a solo cardio session and not pwo cardio? I would think that after PWO cardio you have no choice but to feed the body a pro/carb meal, and I agree w/ you about pwo complex carbs being superior to pwo simple carbs.

    What do you typically ingest on non-workout day when low intensity cardio is performed...pro/fat? If so, how much fat?

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    If the cardio is upon waking ive always taken a simple whey isolate shake alone and drank BCAAs,after i resume my normal diet for the day.
    Last edited by **TOP**; 10-19-2009 at 11:23 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M302_Imola;4***946
    You're talking about a solo cardio session and not pwo cardio? I would think that after PWO cardio you have no choice but to feed the body a pro/carb meal, and I agree w/ you about pwo complex carbs being superior to pwo simple carbs.

    What do you typically ingest on non-workout day when low intensity cardio is performed...pro/fat? If so, how much fat?
    This is interesting, because I often perform my cardio workouts on non-lifting days as well. Actually, I like to cardio late at night even on lifting days (11pm-12am) because it is cool outside and there are no cars on the road. I usually stop eating carbs around 3-4pm. If I run that late, will it be the same as running in the AM, because it is about 8 hours after my last carb meal. And when I get done I should just eat a pro/fat meal?

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    Quote Originally Posted by M302_Imola;4***946
    You're talking about a solo cardio session and not pwo cardio? I would think that after PWO cardio you have no choice but to feed the body a pro/carb meal, and I agree w/ you about pwo complex carbs being superior to pwo simple carbs.

    What do you typically ingest on non-workout day when low intensity cardio is performed...pro/fat? If so, how much fat?
    Totally depends how lean you want to get and where you are at in your diet.

    But there are definitely many times where I workout, do cardio PWO and still just have pro/fat meal.

    So yes on non-workout days I will either go just carbs in meal 1 or none at all sometimes and just do pro/fat the entire day.

    Just do my egg whites after cardio with 3 whole eggs and 5g fish oil.

    Just usually keep fat at 15-20g always have 5 of that coming from fish each meal.

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    Right now I am doing a lean bulk. I'm really only doing cardio to keep some excess fat off while bulking. I am also running 500mg TEST E per week. Should I still not eat carbs after running late at night?

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastwardo View Post
    Right now I am doing a lean bulk. I'm really only doing cardio to keep some excess fat off while bulking. I am also running 500mg TEST E per week. Should I still not eat carbs after running late at night?
    define "running"? If your cardio sessions are real intense (ex. sprints), imo a pro/carb meal is def. needed. If late night cardio session is low intensity (between 60-70% MHR) then leave the carbs out and do a pro/fat meal following.

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    Quote Originally Posted by M302_Imola View Post
    define "running"? If your cardio sessions are real intense (ex. sprints), imo a pro/carb meal is def. needed. If late night cardio session is low intensity (between 60-70% MHR) then leave the carbs out and do a pro/fat meal following.
    Yeah when I say "running" it is more like jogging. Not sprinting or anything to intense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fastwardo View Post
    Yeah when I say "running" it is more like jogging. Not sprinting or anything to intense.
    Good deal...you should invest in a heart rate monitor if you do a lot of running/jogging and make sure you heart rate doesn't get above 70% MHR. 60-70% MHR is the zone you want to be to burn fat and spare muscle (of course, w/ a proper diet).

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Totally depends how lean you want to get and where you are at in your diet.

    But there are definitely many times where I workout, do cardio PWO and still just have pro/fat meal.

    So yes on non-workout days I will either go just carbs in meal 1 or none at all sometimes and just do pro/fat the entire day.

    Just do my egg whites after cardio with 3 whole eggs and 5g fish oil.

    Just usually keep fat at 15-20g always have 5 of that coming from fish each meal.
    good info...thanks!

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by C_Bino View Post
    Totally depends how lean you want to get and where you are at in your diet.

    But there are definitely many times where I workout, do cardio PWO and still just have pro/fat meal.

    So yes on non-workout days I will either go just carbs in meal 1 or none at all sometimes and just do pro/fat the entire day.Just do my egg whites after cardio with 3 whole eggs and 5g fish oil.

    Just usually keep fat at 15-20g always have 5 of that coming from fish each meal.
    Agreed when im 4 weeks out ill go without carbs totally then carb up mon and thurs,no matter what i have done pwo,pwo cardio etc...

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