Are all "Senior" and "Veteran" members on board with 8 week only cycles?

[Merc.]

he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids

u can know this just by taking 4 weeks of dbol to kickstart off ur cycle, weeks 1-3 u feel the dbol get stronger, but usually by week 4 people get use to the dbol pumps and the back pumps become less, this is becuase the bodys receptors are already becoming less sensitive by week 4

most people also notice their gains are best weeks 1 -6, some go to 8, most people after week 8 still gain but the rate they gain at is nowhere near what they did in the start due to the longer their on, the less sensitive the body is to effects of steroids

u can still gain after week 8, but most people if not all will find the gains taper off the longer their on a cycle, thats why alot increase their dosages towards the end, which isnt a good idea since ur giving urself more chance of side effects for minimal extra muscle gains since ur receptors have lost ALOT of their sensitivity

the longer u are on the also more prone to side effects u are, since ur not reaping the same level of muscle building effects of steroids, but still getting ALL if not more side effects

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time, allowing for easier recovery, the longer ur on a cycle the harder it is to recover from a cycle

however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet

therefore it wont make ur receptors less sensitive early in the cycle, which is why i can be run longer and usually has to be run longer

cycle lengths can vary, alot of peole find 6 week cycles best, some find 8, some 12, some 16, it all depends on what u run, and how ur bodys growing, goals, not to mention ur diet and training

leaning cycles can usually be run longer then mass cycles since the steroid dosages are usually lower and since ur goal isnt to gain mass, u dont need to worry about ur bodys becoming less sensitive to steroids asmuch, since u dont need their full muscle building effect for the whole cycle, just their ability to protect muscle mass

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..



he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

[ranging1]

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..

yes ur right, but what im refering to is the length of ANY CYCLE AND COMPOUND since runnning any compund for say 8-10 weeks would be less harsh on ur HPTA then 20 weeks, the applies ot any steroid

he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

yes ur right, didnt mean to put receptors as the reason, other factors such as tolerance to glucose etc

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

i dont c how that related to my comment lol, u just repeated what u said above lol

MY RESPONSE IN RED

[in2shape]

so hearing these views why would 1 run var or winnie in week 8-12 leading into pct of a 10 week test cyp cycle ??? if gears deminishing etc???? is it the case that adding anothr compound is creating more gear in the system ????

or ????

views ???

[in2shape]

so hearing these views why would 1 run var or winnie in week 8-12 leading into pct of a 10 week test cyp cycle ??? if gears deminishing etc???? is it the case that adding anothr compound is creating more gear in the system ????

or ????

views ???

great read here fellas any info on my Q above??

[Merc.]

great read here fellas any info on my Q above??

Some peeps like using a DHT based compound like winny ( in the last part of their cycle) because it's effects on SHBG ..



Merc.

[jackman22]

Depends on what your taking really. Theres a big differance between test susp then EQ for example wich imo should be taken for at least 12 weeks u to 16 weeks. Remember everyone is different.

[in2shape]

Some peeps like using a DHT based compound like winny ( in the last part of their cycle) because it's effects on SHBG ..




Merc.

and what about var ??? help tighten me up as test leaves sytem ???

thx 4 reply

[Swifto]

Some peeps like using a DHT based compound like winny ( in the last part of their cycle) because it's effects on SHBG ..



Merc.

SHBG really doesnt play as bigger role as most think for us bodybuilders/athletes using exogenous testosterone.

Infact, its pretty miniscule.

I've seen Dr. Crisler (Swale) post on this more time than I can remember.

Most AS will actually reduce SHBG anyhow, Testosteron included.

Anthony was on the SHBG bandwagon (I mean no disrespect because hes your friend), but after speaking to those with a little more understanding and credentials, it doesnt seem to be the case at all. If you also review Nandi's posts, youll find the same.

[Merc.]

SHBG really doesnt play as bigger role as most think for us bodybuilders/athletes using exogenous testosterone.

Infact, its pretty miniscule.

I've seen Dr. Crisler (Swale) post on this more time than I can remember.

Most AS will actually reduce SHBG anyhow, Testosteron included.

Anthony was on the SHBG bandwagon (I mean no disrespect because hes your friend), but after speaking to those with a little more understanding and credentials, it doesnt seem to be the case at all. If you also review Nandi's posts, youll find the same.

I am not Friends with Roberts ... I havent sopke to him in a long time ( ever since all that bullshit went down ....

Yea Swifto.. Nandi was a GREAT guy ( Karl Hoffman ... RIP MAN) ....




Merc.

[Swifto]

Say Huh ???

My response in blue below ...

shorter cycles also allow a better HPTA recovery becuase the hpta is shutdown for a shorter time,

Depends on the compund ... 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) as where it can take serveral weeks for test to shut ya down .. Plus it can take a lot longer to recover from than test..



he reccomendeds 8 weeek cycle becuase generally most compounds are the most effective during this time, since the bodys receptors are most sensitive to steroids


Androgen receptors dont down regulate .. They actually increase in the presence of of more androgen's...

What shuts down growth is the build up of other reaction factors such as cortisol , glycogen and SHBG that brings the body back into homeostasis..



however their are some compounds that should and usually need longer cycle lengths such as Deca nandralone ,since they are a longer acting ester, so their effects cant be felt till later in the cycle, this isnt bad becuase since its a longer acting ester it doesant have a huge effect on ur receptors in the start of a cycle since it hasnt built up in ur system yet


Deca is a hard compound on HPTA ... Again 1 -100 mg shot of deca can shut you down ( HPTA) .. I mean shut you down ..

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

[chuckt12345]

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

umm that study says concentrations lower right away not shut down

[Swifto]

umm that study says concentrations lower right away not shut down

"Decreased rapidly..." and "Significant decline...", dont mean much else IMHO. I dont have the full paper to hand, but I may be able to get it free.

When LH and FSH decrease enough, even after 24hours, the testes are no longer being stimulated. Testicular dysfunction is then able to set in rapidly.

Testosterone preperations will reduce endogenous T to hypogondal levels in days, not weeks.

A 50mg Test Enan shot reduced LH by 65% and FSH 62% in this study.

If you have any other data, I'd like to read it.

[Merc.]

Testosterone preperations will shut you down in days, not weeks my friend. After one 200mg shot of Test Enan in this study, this is what happend:

"Plasma concentrations of both LH and FSH decreased rapidly after the first TE injection; a significant decline in LH was detectable after 24 h. Mean levels of both gonadotropins decreased to less than 0.5 U/L by the end of 4 weeks and to below the limit of sensitivity of the assays (0.05 IU/L) by 12 weeks."

Man I miss the old days with these good debates .( which we can all learn from )..

Anyways keep in mind that about 50% of published articles on Pubmed are wrong ( I work in a lab and this number comes from some of the top Scientist we have working there ).. I will start a thread that has tons of info on determing if a study is legit or not..

So I am sure we could go back and forth on studies all day .. That said check out this one ..

Testosterone suppression of the HPT axis.MacIndoe JH, Perry PJ, Yates WR, Holman TL, Ellingrod VL, Scott SD.
Department of Psychiatry, College of Medicine, University of Iowa, Iowa City, USA.

BACKGROUND: Although studies have demonstrated the suppression of normal gonadal function in the experimental setting, the specific mechanisms by which androgenic-anabolic steroids impact male gonadal function remain ill defined. Following 2 consecutive weekly injections of an identically appearing testosterone cypionate (TC) placebo, subjects were randomized to a TC dose of 100 mg/wk, 250 mg/wk, or 500 mg/wk. Following the last weekly injection of active agent the subjects received 12 consecutive weeks of TC placebo injections. RESULTS: Spermatogenesis was impaired by each of the doses of TC employed in this study, but the observed decreases in, sperm count were neither strictly dose dependent nor consistent between individuals treated with the same dose. Basal leuteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) became undetectable 2 weeks after the start of 250 and 500 mg/wk TC injections and were lost within 5 to 6 weeks of starting 100 mg doses. Pituitary gonadotropin responses to leutinizing hormone releasing hormone (LHRH) disappeared more slowly with FSH responses being lost 1 to 3 weeks after the loss of basal FSH activity. Leuteinizing hormone responses to LHRH appeared to be suppressed last, disappearing 4 to 6 weeks after FSH responses to LHRH. CONCLUSIONS: Exogenous testosterone-mediated inhibitory influences on the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis were reversed following the cessation of drug treatment.

PMID: 9394096 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]..........



I didnt highlight any part of the study because I wanted you to read the whole thing ..

So this study states that one hundred mgs of test per week takes about 5-6 weeks to shut down HPTA... and 250-500mgs shuts you down by week two ..

Great Discussion Swifto ...




Merc.