Continual Growth - Advanced AAS protocols

[IPBodybuilding]

I read all the posts on this forum but I am hesitant to try either of the examples since I am still fairly new to AAS. I was on TRT for a year and a half before I tried a blast phase for 11 weeks of 600mg test e weekly and started 50 mg anavar daily after week 3. I want to try this phase cycling so I can get the best result while maintaining as much of my gains and not feel like dogshit after coming off cycle, at least not until the 18 months is up. I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

[HoldMyBeer]

I read all the posts on this forum but I am hesitant to try either of the examples since I am still fairly new to AAS. I was on TRT for a year and a half before I tried a blast phase for 11 weeks of 600mg test e weekly and started 50 mg anavar daily after week 3. I want to try this phase cycling so I can get the best result while maintaining as much of my gains and not feel like dogshit after coming off cycle, at least not until the 18 months is up. I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

You felt like shit because you took an oral for 8 weeks
Although anavar is less toxic than other oral (apparently because it's breakdown is separated between the kidneys and liver, instead of just the liver. Unconfirmed though), it's still toxic.
Phase cycling has nothing to do with keeping gains, that all has to do with what you do when your cycle ends (diet, training, pct, etc)
Keep it simple, you will see the exact same results

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[Family_guy]

You felt like shit because you took an oral for 8 weeks
Although anavar is less toxic than other oral (apparently because it's breakdown is separated between the kidneys and liver, instead of just the liver. Unconfirmed though), it's still toxic.
Phase cycling has nothing to do with keeping gains, that all has to do with what you do when your cycle ends (diet, training, pct, etc)
Keep it simple, you will see the exact same results

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You really think taking anavar for 8 weeks is the cause? It may be but I have a very hard time believing that man.

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

[HoldMyBeer]

You really think taking anavar for 8 weeks is the cause? It may be but I have a very hard time believing that man.

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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[Slacker78]

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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I have took Dbol for 6 months 10-20mg/EOD as pre-pump before my training sessions; sometimes i take it to give me a little boost but in a discontinuos way; the same i did with Var. Of course it depends of dosages and time. My liver enzymes are slightly higher than normal, but just AST; but i think it's related to several factors, because it's not only liver-specific, like ALT for example.

[Family_guy]

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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I feel ya. I think we all do that to some degree.
I agree with you on there being many other factors also

[GearHeaded]

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

liver toxicity due to oral AAS usage is highly genetic... I think for a lot of people its actually quite over blown (supplement companies want you thinking your liver is in danger from AAS so they can keep selling you liver support sups).

fact is , most negative steroid effects you read about in the profiles are genetic factors. Dbol causes gyno ,, ummm no, not for me. but for guys that are genetically pre disposed to gyno that negative side effect is a reality. Masteron causes hair loss , ummm no, not unless your genetically pre disposed to that. bad cholesterol , nope thats genetic too.
same with liver toxicity.

some guys run VAR (which is not that liver toxic) and end up with elevated enzymes ,, while at the same time Var is prescribed at low dose in the medical community to treat alcoholic liver disease. seems like a contradiction right. in some cases it can help heal the liver (VAR has regenerative properties to it) but to guys with genetically sensitive livers it can be a problem.


so just keep that in mind when reading steroid profiles and the negative side effects. none of those side effects are a guarantee unless your genetically pre disposed to them (same goes with some of the positive attributes .. your not guaranteed to put on 20 pounds of muscle from 2 grams of gear, you could be a genetic non responder to AAS).

[GearHeaded]

I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

[Slacker78]

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

GH, in the first phase ( i tried something of similar ) which is oriented to load estrogens to build a strong anabolic environment, i've noticed my abdominal disappear at all and there's an increasing of abdominal fat in low belly side and the hips; i do not seem a body-builder neither in this phase; yes, i'm full, but very opaque and full of water everywhere; is this a condition should i ( and everyone ) accept to build gains ?

[GearHeaded]

GH, in the first phase ( i tried something of similar ) which is oriented to load estrogens to build a strong anabolic environment, i've noticed my abdominal disappear at all and there's an increasing of abdominal fat in low belly side and the hips; i do not seem a body-builder neither in this phase; yes, i'm full, but very opaque and full of water everywhere; is this a condition should i ( and everyone ) accept to build gains ?

ok so water retention is going to be beneficial for growth and putting on size.. see my thread here-
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...pensation.html

BUT if your spilling over too much in an estrogen phase, like sounds like happened to you here, then one solution is to increase your androgen load. The androgen will help 'balance' out some of that water retention yet still allow your blood serum levels of estrogen to be elevated.
so lets say your running 300mg of Ment per week for your estrogen base but your spilling over, you can add in like 400mg of Mast or 10mg a day of Halo to provide more androgen load to the cycle.
the other thing you can do is run low dose Nolva. this will blunt some of the estrogenic fat accumulation and spill over while still allowing for elevated serum levels of E

[Slacker78]

ok so water retention is going to be beneficial for growth and putting on size.. see my thread here-
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...pensation.html

BUT if your spilling over too much in an estrogen phase, like sounds like happened to you here, then one solution is to increase your androgen load. The androgen will help 'balance' out some of that water retention yet still allow your blood serum levels of estrogen to be elevated.
so lets say your running 300mg of Ment per week for your estrogen base but your spilling over, you can add in like 400mg of Mast or 10mg a day of Halo to provide more androgen load to the cycle.
the other thing you can do is run low dose Nolva. this will blunt some of the estrogenic fat accumulation and spill over while still allowing for elevated serum levels of E

Ok, very clearly. But Nolva ( tamoxifene ), has affinity with abdominal/hips estrogens receptors too ? It's often known tamoxifene holds major affinity with breast estrogens receptors...

[DuckTheViking]

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

Very interesting protocol. Given that you're using eq and deca, are the other main compounds (test, tren, mast etc) also long esters?

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[GearHeaded]

Very interesting protocol. Given that you're using eq and deca, are the other main compounds (test, tren, mast etc) also long esters?

no not necessarily at all . the idea of having to stack long esters with other long esters is total BS imo.. the fact is, especially with phase cycling and compound rotation protocols, its actually best to use short esters and long esters together (as well as orals when needed)

[bwandrade]

I've read pretty much every single theard that you started and couldn't find the "advanced PCT cycle protocols", will you still write it? If not, can you just send me a PM (or something like that) with some hints of how to adapt this one to the PCT "version"?

[GearHeaded]

I've read pretty much every single theard that you started and couldn't find the "advanced PCT cycle protocols", will you still do write? If not, can you just send me a PM (or something like that) with some hints of how to adapt this one to the PCT "version"?

great observation and question .

my views on PCT have changed somewhat. I personally think if bodybuilding is an important focus then PCT should be avoided or only done 1-2 times per year (not after every cycle).

so I probably never got around to writing up PCT cycles protocols because I'm not a fan or advocate of doing PCT after cycles.. however in another post which I'll just do on here , I will state what my recommendations are for guys that do want to still do PCT

[bwandrade]

Edit: Sorry, didn't saw the last reply.

[Chrisp83TRT]

great observation and question .

my views on PCT have changed somewhat. I personally think if bodybuilding is an important focus then PCT should be avoided or only done 1-2 times per year (not after every cycle).

so I probably never got around to writing up PCT cycles protocols because I'm not a fan or advocate of doing PCT after cycles.. however in another post which I'll just do on here , I will state what my recommendations are for guys that do want to still do PCT

What's a PCT ?

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[i_SLAM_cougars]

What's a PCT ?

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Its some trendy thing kids do when they want to lose all their gains

[GearHeaded]

the most ideal for the most gains is just being on TRT or blasting and cruising..

if you want to maintain fertility and natty production (which can still be done blasting and cruising) then I recommend only running 1-2 PCTs per year. and not a PCT after every single cycle that you do.

so for example ,, blast for 8 weeks, cruise for 4 weeks, blast for 12 weeks cruise for 6 weeks, etc.. then take a break for 3 months out of the year and run an aggressive PCT

you could also follow the advanced protocols lay out I put up at the beginning of this thread , you can run that for say 3 repeat cycles , then simply plug in a PCT phase at the end of the anti estrogen anti cortisol phase one to two times per year