Continual Growth - Advanced AAS protocols

[IPBodybuilding]

I read all the posts on this forum but I am hesitant to try either of the examples since I am still fairly new to AAS. I was on TRT for a year and a half before I tried a blast phase for 11 weeks of 600mg test e weekly and started 50 mg anavar daily after week 3. I want to try this phase cycling so I can get the best result while maintaining as much of my gains and not feel like dogshit after coming off cycle, at least not until the 18 months is up. I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

[HoldMyBeer]

I read all the posts on this forum but I am hesitant to try either of the examples since I am still fairly new to AAS. I was on TRT for a year and a half before I tried a blast phase for 11 weeks of 600mg test e weekly and started 50 mg anavar daily after week 3. I want to try this phase cycling so I can get the best result while maintaining as much of my gains and not feel like dogshit after coming off cycle, at least not until the 18 months is up. I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

You felt like shit because you took an oral for 8 weeks
Although anavar is less toxic than other oral (apparently because it's breakdown is separated between the kidneys and liver, instead of just the liver. Unconfirmed though), it's still toxic.
Phase cycling has nothing to do with keeping gains, that all has to do with what you do when your cycle ends (diet, training, pct, etc)
Keep it simple, you will see the exact same results

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[GearHeaded]

I've had experience with this stuff for almost 2 years now and am willing to try phase cycling. Is there a phase cycling protocol that a beginner can try?

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

[Family_guy]

You felt like shit because you took an oral for 8 weeks
Although anavar is less toxic than other oral (apparently because it's breakdown is separated between the kidneys and liver, instead of just the liver. Unconfirmed though), it's still toxic.
Phase cycling has nothing to do with keeping gains, that all has to do with what you do when your cycle ends (diet, training, pct, etc)
Keep it simple, you will see the exact same results

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You really think taking anavar for 8 weeks is the cause? It may be but I have a very hard time believing that man.

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

[Slacker78]

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

GH, in the first phase ( i tried something of similar ) which is oriented to load estrogens to build a strong anabolic environment, i've noticed my abdominal disappear at all and there's an increasing of abdominal fat in low belly side and the hips; i do not seem a body-builder neither in this phase; yes, i'm full, but very opaque and full of water everywhere; is this a condition should i ( and everyone ) accept to build gains ?

[HoldMyBeer]

You really think taking anavar for 8 weeks is the cause? It may be but I have a very hard time believing that man.

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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[Slacker78]

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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I have took Dbol for 6 months 10-20mg/EOD as pre-pump before my training sessions; sometimes i take it to give me a little boost but in a discontinuos way; the same i did with Var. Of course it depends of dosages and time. My liver enzymes are slightly higher than normal, but just AST; but i think it's related to several factors, because it's not only liver-specific, like ALT for example.

[Family_guy]

No need, I believe you
But I think it also depends on liver health, how long it had been since your last cycle, and a lot of other factors.
I have a bad habbit of projecting my own experience on other people's situations. And in my experience, taking anavar for 8 weeks would make me feel like shit. But I have abused the fuck out of my liver in the past, soooo.......

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I feel ya. I think we all do that to some degree.
I agree with you on there being many other factors also

[GearHeaded]

GH, in the first phase ( i tried something of similar ) which is oriented to load estrogens to build a strong anabolic environment, i've noticed my abdominal disappear at all and there's an increasing of abdominal fat in low belly side and the hips; i do not seem a body-builder neither in this phase; yes, i'm full, but very opaque and full of water everywhere; is this a condition should i ( and everyone ) accept to build gains ?

ok so water retention is going to be beneficial for growth and putting on size.. see my thread here-
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...pensation.html

BUT if your spilling over too much in an estrogen phase, like sounds like happened to you here, then one solution is to increase your androgen load. The androgen will help 'balance' out some of that water retention yet still allow your blood serum levels of estrogen to be elevated.
so lets say your running 300mg of Ment per week for your estrogen base but your spilling over, you can add in like 400mg of Mast or 10mg a day of Halo to provide more androgen load to the cycle.
the other thing you can do is run low dose Nolva. this will blunt some of the estrogenic fat accumulation and spill over while still allowing for elevated serum levels of E

[GearHeaded]

I just read a study about Anadrol. Guys were given 50mg/ or 100mg/ day and they measured all the usual Health markers specifically testing its ability to increase red blood cell count. This study was 12 weeks I believe. They reported that liver enzymes increased for both groups but literally the day after they stopped the drol their enzymes were in range again!!

Maybe I can find it if someone’s interested

liver toxicity due to oral AAS usage is highly genetic... I think for a lot of people its actually quite over blown (supplement companies want you thinking your liver is in danger from AAS so they can keep selling you liver support sups).

fact is , most negative steroid effects you read about in the profiles are genetic factors. Dbol causes gyno ,, ummm no, not for me. but for guys that are genetically pre disposed to gyno that negative side effect is a reality. Masteron causes hair loss , ummm no, not unless your genetically pre disposed to that. bad cholesterol , nope thats genetic too.
same with liver toxicity.

some guys run VAR (which is not that liver toxic) and end up with elevated enzymes ,, while at the same time Var is prescribed at low dose in the medical community to treat alcoholic liver disease. seems like a contradiction right. in some cases it can help heal the liver (VAR has regenerative properties to it) but to guys with genetically sensitive livers it can be a problem.


so just keep that in mind when reading steroid profiles and the negative side effects. none of those side effects are a guarantee unless your genetically pre disposed to them (same goes with some of the positive attributes .. your not guaranteed to put on 20 pounds of muscle from 2 grams of gear, you could be a genetic non responder to AAS).

[Slacker78]

ok so water retention is going to be beneficial for growth and putting on size.. see my thread here-
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...pensation.html

BUT if your spilling over too much in an estrogen phase, like sounds like happened to you here, then one solution is to increase your androgen load. The androgen will help 'balance' out some of that water retention yet still allow your blood serum levels of estrogen to be elevated.
so lets say your running 300mg of Ment per week for your estrogen base but your spilling over, you can add in like 400mg of Mast or 10mg a day of Halo to provide more androgen load to the cycle.
the other thing you can do is run low dose Nolva. this will blunt some of the estrogenic fat accumulation and spill over while still allowing for elevated serum levels of E

Ok, very clearly. But Nolva ( tamoxifene ), has affinity with abdominal/hips estrogens receptors too ? It's often known tamoxifene holds major affinity with breast estrogens receptors...

[DuckTheViking]

depends on your goals.. but heres a very basic example of phase cycling for a bulk

Phase 1 - Estrogen phase (Retention phase -- goal here is to purposely retain water and increase blood volume)
Weeks 1-5
Test 750mg
Deca 500mg
Dbol 50mg per day
NO AI

Phase 2 - Anabolic phase (goal here is just tissue building, nothing more).. estrogen and androgens are on the low side.
Weeks 6-10
Test 250mg
Deca 500mg
EQ 600mg
Var 50mg per day

Phase 3 - Androgen phase (goal here is to use androgens to fill out muscle and new tissue being built)
weeks 11-15
Test 250mg
EQ 600mg
Tren 350mg
Masteron 600mg


Phase 4 - cruise and maintain (off all androgens to resensitize and reset health markers)
weeks 16-21
Test 125mg
Primo 300mg
HGH 4iu per day
Insulin 20iu per day
T4 75mcg per day
Clen 40mcg per day


^ thats just a basic example .. things can be switched around. for example, sometimes for a dramatic growth phase I will combine an estrogen phase with an androgen phase. the combo of high androgens and high estrogens can put size on fairly quickly (whereas the above phase cycle is more of a slow steady approach).
sometimes at the end, person dependent, we may have an anti estrogen phase, or an anti cortisol phase (or a combo of both).

really goal and person dependent for setting up the phases and the compounds to be rotated in.. you also have to keep in mind the synergy between compounds and the distinct nature of each individual compound and what it does.. example, it would be silly to put Masteron into a stack with your estrogen or retention phase, because mast works as both an anti estrogen and anti retentive compound.

Very interesting protocol. Given that you're using eq and deca, are the other main compounds (test, tren, mast etc) also long esters?

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[GearHeaded]

Very interesting protocol. Given that you're using eq and deca, are the other main compounds (test, tren, mast etc) also long esters?

no not necessarily at all . the idea of having to stack long esters with other long esters is total BS imo.. the fact is, especially with phase cycling and compound rotation protocols, its actually best to use short esters and long esters together (as well as orals when needed)

[bwandrade]

I've read pretty much every single theard that you started and couldn't find the "advanced PCT cycle protocols", will you still write it? If not, can you just send me a PM (or something like that) with some hints of how to adapt this one to the PCT "version"?

[GearHeaded]

I've read pretty much every single theard that you started and couldn't find the "advanced PCT cycle protocols", will you still do write? If not, can you just send me a PM (or something like that) with some hints of how to adapt this one to the PCT "version"?

great observation and question .

my views on PCT have changed somewhat. I personally think if bodybuilding is an important focus then PCT should be avoided or only done 1-2 times per year (not after every cycle).

so I probably never got around to writing up PCT cycles protocols because I'm not a fan or advocate of doing PCT after cycles.. however in another post which I'll just do on here , I will state what my recommendations are for guys that do want to still do PCT

[GearHeaded]

the most ideal for the most gains is just being on TRT or blasting and cruising..

if you want to maintain fertility and natty production (which can still be done blasting and cruising) then I recommend only running 1-2 PCTs per year. and not a PCT after every single cycle that you do.

so for example ,, blast for 8 weeks, cruise for 4 weeks, blast for 12 weeks cruise for 6 weeks, etc.. then take a break for 3 months out of the year and run an aggressive PCT

you could also follow the advanced protocols lay out I put up at the beginning of this thread , you can run that for say 3 repeat cycles , then simply plug in a PCT phase at the end of the anti estrogen anti cortisol phase one to two times per year

[bwandrade]

Edit: Sorry, didn't saw the last reply.

[Aner]

I think that this post should be stickied and i kindly ask the author to edit the content to let all the important stuffs it contains to be made available without the need to go through all the replies (i.e. putting all the cycles in the first post)
There are so many advanced informations in this thread that even people that are quite knowledgeable in chemical compound can hardly put togheter all of this.
Please don't let such precious knowledge go wasted in the flow of the forum!

[Dgs59]

This is awesome, would love you to have your views on blast/cruise for basic users, I have been getting on and off and PCT everytime and this time I am thinking to cruise after my cycle before one big blast and then PCT and take a break. I want to cruise longer (3 months)

So basically 14 weeks Test (6 weeks Dbol) then cruise for 3 months on test 250 /week and have blast again and the PCT

Also thinking may be I should drop off the Dbol in this cycle and do it in blast next.

Does that make any sense?

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I think that this post should be stickied and i kindly ask the author to edit the content to let all the important stuffs it contains to be made available without the need to go through all the replies (i.e. putting all the cycles in the first post)
There are so many advanced informations in this thread that even people that are quite knowledgeable in chemical compound can hardly put togheter all of this.
Please don't let such precious knowledge go wasted in the flow of the forum!

I second that. We’re in dire need of new stickies

[Obs]

I will give all of you something sticky!

[i_SLAM_cougars]

I will give all of you something sticky!

You need to trade that Tren out for some deca

[Dgs59]

I will give all of you something sticky!

[Chrisp83TRT]

great observation and question .

my views on PCT have changed somewhat. I personally think if bodybuilding is an important focus then PCT should be avoided or only done 1-2 times per year (not after every cycle).

so I probably never got around to writing up PCT cycles protocols because I'm not a fan or advocate of doing PCT after cycles.. however in another post which I'll just do on here , I will state what my recommendations are for guys that do want to still do PCT

What's a PCT ?

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[i_SLAM_cougars]

What's a PCT ?

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Its some trendy thing kids do when they want to lose all their gains

[GearHeaded]

This is awesome, would love you to have your views on blast/cruise for basic users, I have been getting on and off and PCT everytime and this time I am thinking to cruise after my cycle before one big blast and then PCT and take a break. I want to cruise longer (3 months)

So basically 14 weeks Test (6 weeks Dbol) then cruise for 3 months on test 250 /week and have blast again and the PCT

Also thinking may be I should drop off the Dbol in this cycle and do it in blast next.

Does that make any sense?

your going to make way better progress by cruising most the year rather then PCT after every cycle you do . so here are some recommendations

- Blast 8 weeks, cruise 4 weeks, blast 12 weeks, cruise 6 weeks, blast, cruise. for about 9 months.. then do a heavy PCT for 8 weeks (if your trying to maintain natty function and not wanting to just go on TRT)

- your blasts and cruises should be set up in phases while rotating compounds.. I wouldn't just keep blasting test then lower test for cruise. So you may blast a heavy androgen load for 6 weeks (eg. high dose test tren and mast) , but then when you come off that androgen phase and start to cruise, do NOT cruise on androgens , cruise on something like EQ at low dose. your cruise is purely anabolic only .. then your next blast might be a heavy estrogen blast, running test and dbol and ment,, then when you come off and cruise you may cruise on an androgen like Mast.. then your next blast might be a heavy anabolic blast , like Var and Primo , etc. etc..

as you can see , "cruising" does not just mean coming off cycle and running ONLY test. heck you may not run test at all during your cruise phases. nothing wrong with coming off a blast and just cruising on 300mg of primo

[Aner]

your going to make way better progress by cruising most the year rather then PCT after every cycle you do . so here are some recommendations

- Blast 8 weeks, cruise 4 weeks, blast 12 weeks, cruise 6 weeks, blast, cruise. for about 9 months.. then do a heavy PCT for 8 weeks (if your trying to maintain natty function and not wanting to just go on TRT)

- your blasts and cruises should be set up in phases while rotating compounds.. I wouldn't just keep blasting test then lower test for cruise. So you may blast a heavy androgen load for 6 weeks (eg. high dose test tren and mast) , but then when you come off that androgen phase and start to cruise, do NOT cruise on androgens , cruise on something like EQ at low dose. your cruise is purely anabolic only .. then your next blast might be a heavy estrogen blast, running test and dbol and ment,, then when you come off and cruise you may cruise on an androgen like Mast.. then your next blast might be a heavy anabolic blast , like Var and Primo , etc. etc..

as you can see , "cruising" does not just mean coming off cycle and running ONLY test. heck you may not run test at all during your cruise phases. nothing wrong with coming off a blast and just cruising on 300mg of primo

What do you think about applying the Blast/Cruise protocol to build a better 1st cycle that cover a bulking and cutting phase?

Ie:

Blast/Bulk
Week 01-12: Test E 500 mg/week
Week 01-12; HCG 500 iu/week

If something go wrong PCT, otherwise

Cruise
Week 14-20: Eq 300 mg/week

Blast/Cut
Week: 21-33: test E 500 mg/week
Week: 21-33 HCG 500 iu/week
Week: 21-33 Superdrol 15 mg/day

Week 35: Start PCT

[KrossOut]

6 week cruise with EQ no test?

12 weeks of superdrol?

There’s a few things wrong here. Go back and try again.


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[Aner]

6 week cruise with EQ no test?

12 weeks of superdrol?

There’s a few things wrong here. Go back and try again.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you want to contribute you should elaborate a little more, just saying that something is wrong is not going to help.

6 weeks Eq with no test= that's exactly what GH wrote

as you can see , "cruising" does not just mean coming off cycle and running ONLY test. heck you may not run test at all during your cruise phases. nothing wrong with coming off a blast and just cruising on 300mg of primo

12 weeks superdrol: yes, it is a long period and 8 weeks in the maximum reported in the Steroid profile but i don't know how much the liver toxicity is dose related and that's way i am asking to someone more knowledgable than me. Superdrol halfife is 8 hours, that means that at 20mg/day it peaks at 22.86 mg, with a dose of 15mg/day the peak stops at 17.14 and that's way my guess that a lower dosage could be sustained for a longer period.
That's obviously just my speculation since i don't really know how superdrol works and that's just an example to try to lay down togheter a wider concept.
Surely there are safer hormones that can take the place of superdrol maybe Primo again or Masteron?

[igatos]

Hi, my greetings to Gearheaded, I give a try to the examples, and throw the adex away! Lot of smiles in my face. I’m currently in week 3 on the first example, I have a question my source doesn’t have superdrol, is there any equal? Halodrol? Or anavar winstrol,

[KrossOut]

If you want to contribute you should elaborate a little more, just saying that something is wrong is not going to help.

6 weeks Eq with no test= that's exactly what GH wrote

12 weeks superdrol: yes, it is a long period and 8 weeks in the maximum reported in the Steroid profile but i don't know how much the liver toxicity is dose related and that's way i am asking to someone more knowledgable than me. Superdrol halfife is 8 hours, that means that at 20mg/day it peaks at 22.86 mg, with a dose of 15mg/day the peak stops at 17.14 and that's way my guess that a lower dosage could be sustained for a longer period.
That's obviously just my speculation since i don't really know how superdrol works and that's just an example to try to lay down togheter a wider concept.
Surely there are safer hormones that can take the place of superdrol maybe Primo again or Masteron?

1st cycle should be test only to see how your body responds. Maybe test and one other compound. If you throw several things into the mix and something goes sideways how do you know what to adjust or eliminate?

Gearheaded elaborated greatly throughout this thread but you are picking and choosing from what he wrote. He speaks about a “phased” approach but you want to blast with test, cruise on EQ and then blast with Test again. That’s not the same phase approach that he outlined. I do not think you have enough experience with steroids or are ready for his phased approach.

If you ever ran superdrol you would understand why 12 weeks is not realistic. You’ll feel lethargic and shitty long before making it to 12 weeks.

You’re free to do what you want but there’s a difference between reading about steroids and having a practical experience with steroids. Start simple and go from there.

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[GearHeaded]

Hi, my greetings to Gearheaded, I give a try to the examples, and throw the adex away! Lot of smiles in my face. I’m currently in week 3 on the first example, I have a question my source doesn’t have superdrol, is there any equal? Halodrol? Or anavar winstrol,

so Superdrol is a DHT derived very strong ANABOLIC , with super low Androgenic effects. So something like Halo would be just the opposite of Superdrol, Halo is a super strong ANDROGENIC.

so if you want to run something similar to Superdrol, then your going to want to run something thats got a high anabolic rating with a low androgenic rating.
but Winny or Var fit that bill , though mg per mg they are no where near as potent as Superdrol..

what was your reasoning for wanting to run Superdrol , and what was your goal for your cycle ?

[GearHeaded]

just to clarify , coming off Test all together during a short cruise phase of say 4-6 weeks and running an Anabolic in its place instead, is not a bad idea on occasions.
Test is an Androgen. if your running Test and a lot of other Androgens during your blast phases, then coming off all androgens all together for a short time to give your body a break from constant androgen load can be beneficial . simply put in a pure anabolic instead (to maintain muscle while cruising but not provide androgenic effects) like Primo or EQ .. don't worry you'll function just fine with no test for 6 weeks (in fact you may feel better)

[GearHeaded]

What do you think about applying the Blast/Cruise protocol to build a better 1st cycle that cover a bulking and cutting phase?

Ie:

Blast/Bulk
Week 01-12: Test E 500 mg/week
Week 01-12; HCG 500 iu/week

If something go wrong PCT, otherwise

Cruise
Week 14-20: Eq 300 mg/week

Blast/Cut
Week: 21-33: test E 500 mg/week
Week: 21-33 HCG 500 iu/week
Week: 21-33 Superdrol 15 mg/day

Week 35: Start PCT

heres an example 'phase cycle' that I just recently wrote up for a client of mine.. this will be his first cycle, so yes you can use the phase cycle approach for a first cycle (there are several members on this board who are clients of mine as well and did their first cycle with me and had great success with phase cycling)


____________

Weeks 1-5 (anabolic phase)
Test E 250mg week
Anavar 50mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand
Masteron on hand

Growth factors
none


Weeks 6-10 (Anabolic and estrogenic volumization phase)
Test 500mg week
Dbol 30mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand
Masteron on hand
AI on hand

Growth factors
MK677 25mg per night
T4 75mcg per day


Weeks 11-16 (anabolic and androgenic phase)
Test 500mg per week
Masteron 400mg per week
LGD 20mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand


Growth factors
HGH 4iu per day (taken all at once with pre workout meal or in AM)
Insuligen 2 caps pre workout 3 caps post workout
MK677 25mg per night
T4 75mcg per day
___________________________


so perhaps this example gives a better idea how I implement phase cycling for newer AAS users

[GearHeaded]

you can see how compounds are added in over time (for a specific purpose).. not all thrown into the cycle at once. which is often what happens with traditional cycles, guys think they have to start everything from day one, rather then rotating compounds in at different points throughout the duration of the cycle

[Aner]

1st cycle should be test only to see how your body responds. Maybe test and one other compound. If you throw several things into the mix and something goes sideways how do you know what to adjust or eliminate?

That's exactly why i suggested to start with the standard 12 weeks test only cycle, at the end of the 12 week and than i wrote that at the end to evaluate if things were good or not

In case something wasn't ok= start PCT
All good try a cruise

Gearheaded elaborated greatly throughout this thread but you are picking and choosing from what he wrote. He speaks about a “phased” approach but you want to blast with test, cruise on EQ and then blast with Test again. That’s not the same phase approach that he outlined.

i agree, it is not the same approach he outlined because he stated since the first post that this is intended for veterans. But that doesn't mean that some elaboration can't be done to try to see if even a 1st cycle can be made more efficient.

i think we all agree to the following aspects:

A bulking cycle must be coupled with a caloric surplus
A PCT time following a bulking cycle should be coupled with a caloric surplus
A cutting phase should be done with the help of a cycle to avoid to loose the gains achieved during the bulking phase

With a standard 1st cycle+PCT+time off cycle you will be 36 weeks into a caloric surplus of 500 cal/day=126000 cal surplus
126000 cal surplus is roughtly 20 kg of stored fat (each kg of stored fat is approx 6000/7000 cal, depending on how much water is stored with it)

So, it is quite pointless to plan a 1st bulking cycle without considering to make it follow by a solid cutting cycle unless you want to try your luck to loose 16/17 kgs without any aas supporting your cal deficit

Said all the above, to do the 2 cycles going throught the normal route (Time ON + Wait time for PCT + PCT time) it'll require a total amount of 72 weeks (approx 16.5 months or 1.4 years!)

Creating a bridge between the 2 cycles (hence skippimg a PCT) is way more effective that doing all the process and that will lead to shortening the time of caloric surplus to just 18 weeks, that means that in the subsequent cutting cycle you will have to loose just 6/7 kg of body fat and all the process will require just require 36 weeks, meaning it can be done in 8 months

I do not think you have enough experience with steroids or are ready for his phased approach

You are right! I actually don't have any steroid experience, i never used AAS in my whole life but i like to read and study the argument. I don't think that all the researches on the field of aas are competitive or amateur bodybuilders but correct me if i'm wrong

If you ever ran superdrol you would understand why 12 weeks is not realistic. You’ll feel lethargic and shitty long before making it to 12 weeks.

What actually concern me the most about Superdrol is the impact on the liver. As i said before what i was trying to lay down is an idea not the actual cycle to do, for that i'd like to get ideas from someone that's more knowledgeable than me

I could have said
Test E Bulk (phase 1/Bulk)
Hcg
Eq (phase 2/cruise)

Test E (phase 3/cutting
Hcg
"cutting" roid

You’re free to do what you want but there’s a difference between reading about steroids and having a practical experience with steroids. Start simple and go from there.

I am a firm beliver that before you try something you have to be very well documented and prepared. That's precisely the purpose of a forum: read, ask questions and throw some ideas that can be good or not.
I never wrote that my intention is to run the aforementioned cycle plan. My interest at the moment is to investigate some possibilities of improovment of a standard protocol. I never tought it was possible or doable skipping a PCT, but with this tread (thank you GH) i learned some very interestin stuffs and i think there is a good chance to creare some good content inside the forum.

[igatos]

so Superdrol is a DHT derived very strong ANABOLIC , with super low Androgenic effects. So something like Halo would be just the opposite of Superdrol, Halo is a super strong ANDROGENIC.


so if you want to run something similar to Superdrol, then your going to want to run something thats got a high anabolic rating with a low androgenic rating.
but Winny or Var fit that bill , though mg per mg they are no where near as potent as Superdrol..

what was your reasoning for wanting to run Superdrol , and what was your goal for your cycle ?

I follow your first example, that’s why I want to run superdrol. My thoughts was for lean bulking. I was on the middle at 3rd week, and I have never seen such a good results as now. So your opinion for replacement superdrol was anavar and winstrol, should I use it both 50mg+50mg or anavar do the job for the phase 2? I understand at phase 2 you use high anabolic and low Androgenic

[GearHeaded]

I follow your first example, that’s why I want to run superdrol. My thoughts was for lean bulking. I was on the middle at 3rd week, and I have never seen such a good results as now. So your opinion for replacement superdrol was anavar and winstrol, should I use it both 50mg+50mg or anavar do the job for the phase 2? I understand at phase 2 you use high anabolic and low Androgenic

ok so yes, Anavar can replace superdol in phase 2 . but you'll want to run a high dose, like 75mg per day . then save the Winstrol for phase 3 which is your anti cortisol phase

[Aner]

heres an example 'phase cycle' that I just recently wrote up for a client of mine.. this will be his first cycle, so yes you can use the phase cycle approach for a first cycle (there are several members on this board who are clients of mine as well and did their first cycle with me and had great success with phase cycling)


____________

Weeks 1-5 (anabolic phase)
Test E 250mg week
Anavar 50mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand
Masteron on hand

Growth factors
none


Weeks 6-10 (Anabolic and estrogenic volumization phase)
Test 500mg week
Dbol 30mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand
Masteron on hand
AI on hand

Growth factors
MK677 25mg per night
T4 75mcg per day


Weeks 11-16 (anabolic and androgenic phase)
Test 500mg per week
Masteron 400mg per week
LGD 20mg day

Ancillary
Nolvadex on hand


Growth factors
HGH 4iu per day (taken all at once with pre workout meal or in AM)
Insuligen 2 caps pre workout 3 caps post workout
MK677 25mg per night
T4 75mcg per day
___________________________


so perhaps this example gives a better idea how I implement phase cycling for newer AAS users

Few questions:

T4 purpose is for re-sensitize androgen receptors right? is it possible to resinsitize them whilst on 500mg test?
i guess masteron main purpose is for its anti estrogen activity right?
The anabolic output from phase 1 after phase 3 will be the same?

[GearHeaded]

Few questions:

T4 purpose is for re-sensitize androgen receptors right? is it possible to resinsitize them whilst on 500mg test?
i guess masteron main purpose is for its anti estrogen activity right?
The anabolic output from phase 1 after phase 3 will be the same?

the T4 comes into play when growth factors like MK677 or HGH are introduced . growth factors can suppress natural production of T4.. so I add it in exogenously. also has anabolic properties, as when HGH, IGF, etc. are elevated in the liver and when the liver converts T4 to T3 it produces an enzyme that has anabolic properties (can't remember the name of the enzyme of the top of my head).. also the T4 is just to help keep the metabolism stable.
also , if on Tren I add T4 in as well.

the Masteron has several purposes, depending on the situation. in the first cycle example cycle I posted its really only in there to act as an androgen and provide androgen load to that cycle without having to up the Test (Mast is going to lower SHBG, thus freeing up a lot more androgens).. and yes androgens do help counter regulate estrogen.
on more advanced cycles I often times add in Masteron with any 19 nors (like deca or tren) because Mast has the ability to blunt progestin receptors.

The anabolic output from phase 1 after phase 3 will be the same?

I don't understand this question