Chauvin Juror Admits She Voted to Prevent Rioting, Not on the Facts

[Hughinn]

No dude, by all means please do. I can’t say that I have witnessed the members that you are referring to doing any bullying. And actually the insults seem to be reasonable as well. They have gone in both directions, but it’s been pretty civil and members have generally fessed up when they have gone overboard.

I just feel that the “reality being shown” is not all that ground-breaking or new. Case and point, this thread. Trials come and go, politics and deals are involved, so what is really all that new that needs to be presented? That was the point of my first post here. The civil suit prior to the trial said it all to me, the conclusion of this was that predictable.

Another one of these deaths/trials will pop up quicker than expected unfortunately, even given present circumstances.

It's not that it's new or old wango. Thats irrelevant.

The fact is that justice has been clouded once again by politics, and thats wrong. It has to be called out. It must.

If you want to ignore it, simply because you think that's just the way it is, so why even bother, then fine sir. That's your choice.

But it's not fine to Americans who believe in blind justice and western jurisprudence. In fact, it goes completely against either of those principles, and therefore some Americans choose not just to accept it simply because "thats the way it is, so oh well, let's move along, nothing new to see here". And that sir, is thier choice. I don't understand why you and others here refuse to accept that. Other people can make thier own decisions and determine thier own beliefs, discuss openly whatever they want, and we don't get to give or deny them permission. Because this is still America, the land of the free

[wango]

It's not that it's new or old wango. Thats irrelevant.

The fact is that justice has been clouded once again by politics, and thats wrong. It has to be called out. It must.

If you want to ignore it, simply because you think that's just the way it is, so why even bother, then fine sir. That's your choice.

But it's not fine to Americans who believe in blind justice and western jurisprudence. In fact, it goes completely against either of those principles, and therefore some Americans choose not just to accept it simply because "thats the way it is, so oh well, let's move along, nothing new to see here". And that sir, is thier choice. I don't understand why you and others here refuse to accept that. Other people can make thier own decisions and determine thier own beliefs, discuss openly whatever they want, and we don't get to give or deny them permission. Because this is still America, the land of the free

Look Hughinn, I understand everything that you say, truly.

And you are right, the freedom to discuss should be part of the process. I think the point I was trying to make was that it appears some topics that are continually rehashed and being passed as “new” information, particularly if it is not 100% true (deliberately or un deliberately) is nothing that needs to be continuously added as new threads.

I’m agreeing more with members that are stating that this political “discussion” is being viewed as a turn off to members or potential members.

But there are members like yourself that are passionate about current events and continually start threads and other members do have “their eyes open” and don’t “move along” because there is “something to see” and what they are seeing isn’t really truthful. And we go round and round and round and round and . . . .

Beetle got caught in yet another mistruth (per DD’s post) being passed off as “news worthy” and in need of everyone’s attention. Do you feel that is correct? Propagating mistruths to undermine faith is not a cool thing.

[Hughinn]

Look Hughinn, I understand everything that you say, truly.

And you are right, the freedom to discuss should be part of the process. I think the point I was trying to make was that it appears some topics that are continually rehashed and being passed as “new” information, particularly if it is not 100% true (deliberately or un deliberately) is nothing that needs to be continuously added as new threads.

I’m agreeing more with members that are stating that this political “discussion” is being viewed as a turn off to members or potential members.

But there are members like yourself that are passionate about current events and continually start threads and other members do have “their eyes open” and don’t “move along” because there is “something to see” and what they are seeing isn’t really truthful. And we go round and round and round and round and . . . .

Beetle got caught in yet another mistruth (per DD’s post) being passed off as “news worthy” and in need of everyone’s attention. Do you feel that is correct? Propagating mistruths to undermine faith is not a cool thing.

I understand you as well sir.

But, you don't know about the silent support I get here. I can only assume beetle gets it as well.

This board has been under the control of a few bullys for a long time.

Those who are turned off by the discussion here, are those who've had to reassess thier positions when faced with scrutiny that will not cower or waver under threat or intimidation.

I saybthat b for ever one who's turned off, two come here and feel persuaded to post or join.

I've personally got messages from silent members that I now see are not so silent, because the bullies now have adversaries they cannot intimidate.

To me sir, that is healthy open discourse, and would not turn off anybody objectively seeking truth and knowledge to gain personal perspective

[wango]

I understand you as well sir.

But, you don't know about the silent support I get here. I can only assume beetle gets it as well.

This board has been under the control of a few bullys for a long time.

Those who are turned off by the discussion here, are those who've had to reassess thier positions when faced with scrutiny that will not cower or waver under threat or intimidation.

I saybthat b for ever one who's turned off, two come here and feel persuaded to post or join.

I've personally got messages from silent members that I now see are not so silent, because the bullies now have adversaries they cannot intimidate.

To me sir, that is healthy open discourse, and would not turn off anybody objectively seeking truth and knowledge to gain personal perspective

And it’s posts like this that get my “spidey senses” going. Why “sir”? That is entirely too formal in our society after this much exchange. It’s “stilted” and comes off a bit disingenuous.

Please show me this bullying. I honestly haven’t seen it. I’m not disputing you, but I want to see evidence if you would please.

“Seeking truth and knowledge” is the point here. Was the OP truthful? Is the OP’s intent to always be “truthful” in the true sense of the word?

I am happy that you are doing this for the “silent members”; it’s a great gesture. But perhaps those who are so silent, yet so bold to break the law to use illegal substances should step up & finally voice their opinions. The reason being is that those that are already willing to speak up are suggesting that this type of posting should not be allowed.

Is there no middle ground? What say you as well, OP?

[Hughinn]

And it’s posts like this that get my “spidey senses” going. Why “sir”? That is entirely too formal in our society after this much exchange. It’s “stilted” and comes off a bit disingenuous.

Please show me this bullying. I honestly haven’t seen it. I’m not disputing you, but I want to see evidence if you would please.

“Seeking truth and knowledge” is the point here. Was the OP truthful? Is the OP’s intent to always be “truthful” in the true sense of the word?

I am happy that you are doing this for the “silent members”; it’s a great gesture. But perhaps those who are so silent, yet so bold to break the law to use illegal substances should step up & finally voice their opinions. The reason being is that those that are already willing to speak up are suggesting that this type of posting should not be allowed.

Is there no middle ground? What say you as well, OP?

I say "Sir" to be perfectly and unmistakably clear that I'm making every effort to maintain civility. It's not necessarily for you, because you and I are on much more casual terms, but for any others reading this thread, I just want to display civility. You can call it whatever you want. I'm a southern man, and it's just what we do.

I don't have to "show you" anything Wango. And there's no way It'd be appropriate or prudent of me to violate trust confided in me to satisfy your curiosity. As much I like you wango No sir, I can't do that.

But, if you Go back through the numerous threads on this forum and take the time to read. When yiu see the pattern of insults, innuendo and mockery , note the names and see the reasons. You'll have your answers.

And I still can't believe you continue to want to circle back at this same accusation against beetle. "If you can't attack the message, be sure to attack the messenger". Method.

Like i told the deadlift dog,

So beetles headline doesn't precisely fit the story he posted, and for that, you howl "liar, racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobe", etc etc, and therefore you seek to totally supress the point he was making by calling names, bullying and harassing anybody that comments or supports his point.

I digress, that although what your saying may be true, by that same token, cnn, msdnc,abc,CBS and all dnc propaganda outlets lie on a daily basis. By your own definition.
If you can be man enough to admit that, then I cannot argue your point. I won't. I see it, and its true. The headline is misleading. I am not arguing against that case.

But since you mentioned facts, I must point out, that with the threat of violence from the democrat party, added to the testimony of the alternative juror in beetles post in conjunction with the numerous potential jurors who refused to serve on the jury because of the threat of violence and destruction on behalf the democrat party, then it's totally rational and logical to believe that citizens that made the jury, at least in some number felt the same way. Thats totally reasonable and undeniably plausible.
And insulting beetle, myself or anyone else who holds that position, because you don't like it, doesn't change the hard logic behind it.

Again, I am not arguing that the headline is misleading. DD pointed that out, and I'm not arguing against it. I am Saying brazenly calling the man a liar, is what some people here do time and time again when they want to shut down discourse on the subject at hand. A common bully tactic. A straw man. I'm not arguing against the staw man. I'm arguing that beetles point is valid and believable. Even if his headline was in fact misleading.

[wango]

I say "Sir" to be perfectly and unmistakably clear that I'm making every effort to maintain civility. It's not necessarily for you, because you and I are on much more casual terms, but for any others reading this thread, I just want to display civility. You can call it whatever you want. I'm a southern man, and it's just what we do.

I don't have to "show you" anything Wango. And there's no way It'd be appropriate or prudent of me to violate trust confided in me to satisfy your curiosity. As much I like you wango No sir, I can't do that.

But, if you Go back through the numerous threads on this forum and take the time to read. When yiu see the pattern of insults, innuendo and mockery , note the names and see the reasons. You'll have your answers.

And I still can't believe you continue to want to circle back at this same accusation against beetle. "If you can't attack the message, be sure to attack the messenger". Method.

Like i told the deadlift dog,

So beetles headline doesn't precisely fit the story he posted, and for that, you howl "liar, racist, sexist, misogynist, homophobe", etc etc, and therefore you seek to totally supress the point he was making by calling names, bullying and harassing anybody that comments or supports his point.

I digress, that although what your saying may be true, by that same token, cnn, msdnc,abc,CBS and all dnc propaganda outlets lie on a daily basis. By your own definition.
If you can be man enough to admit that, then I cannot argue your point. I won't. I see it, and its true. The headline is misleading. I am not arguing against that case.

But since you mentioned facts, I must point out, that with the threat of violence from the democrat party, added to the testimony of the alternative juror in beetles post in conjunction with the numerous potential jurors who refused to serve on the jury because of the threat of violence and destruction on behalf the democrat party, then it's totally rational and logical to believe that citizens that made the jury, at least in some number felt the same way. Thats totally reasonable and undeniably plausible.
And insulting beetle, myself or anyone else who holds that position, because you don't like it, doesn't change the hard logic behind it.

Again, I am not arguing that the headline is misleading. DD pointed that out, and I'm not arguing against it. I am Saying brazenly calling the man a liar, is what some people here do time and time again when they want to shut down discourse on the subject at hand. A common bully tactic. A straw man. I'm not arguing against the staw man. I'm arguing that beetles point is valid and believable. Even if his headline was in fact misleading.

Hey, my intent was NOT to stir things up further. I could have chosen other words.

Regarding “sir” it’s more of a personal thing to me as I’m extremely informal after I’ve exchanged with someone and I think we are starting to see eye to eye or at least agree to disagree. I also am feeling my age and it’s a reminder to me. I don’t even let my kids at school use it with me, lol. But I don’t want you to say things that you personally aren’t comfortable with, my bad.

Regarding the “show me” stuff, I just meant I don’t recall seeing it & sincerely wanted you to point me in the correct direction. I wasn’t disputing or denying it.

Look back at my initial post to beetle. In some respects I agreed with him because I’ve seen it happen before. I have also told you and him that I respect what he says and him as an individual, but I do have a right to disagree.

I’m starting to see your take on what you feel is bullying & it’s not something I commonly associate as bullying simply because of my background and the fact that as teachers we take seminars on recognizing bullying 2x per year. So I’m thinking of bullying from that point of view, but now see where you are coming from with this.

But now I truly think I am guilty of what is being said on the forum - that this back and forth stuff is getting to be too much for a steroid forum, at least now with this particular thread.

I hope that you understand that I meant no disrespect to either of you, but like you, felt my need to add my opinion. I think I’ll step away from this thread now & appropriately head off for a back and biceps workout, have a nice post workout meal and then pin myself later.

See you on another thread, ok?

[Fluidic Kimbo]

this back and forth stuff is getting to be too much for a steroid forum

This international trans-inclusive forum was modelled on Bruce Lee's philosophy: Having no form as form. Having no limitation as limitation. Water can flow... and it can crash! Be like water.