For those who think gains stay.....

[AD]

Hey man i'm not trying to contradict you. I'm trying to agree with you. I've gone through the same ups and downs. Obviously in a smaller scale compared to you. But i believe the correct answer is somewhere in the middle. One obviously cannot keep all gains when off the juice. But neither will one shink back to a little girl after coming off. Peace?

[OnTheSauce]

cheers, i plan to be deading over 300kgs @ 90kg weight class, this time nxt year

I'm there now :P

[binsser]

mmmmm theres no pinting putting a thread up and when you get reviews thinking ur 100 percent right because bud your not...... i gained a massive amount after my first cycle and that was over 10 years ago and lost nothing not a bean it also took me about 3 years of hardly training to notice definition change so i jumped back on full time and done a cycle gain another stone and stopped again and never lost that either...?

im not saying your completely wrong but maybe your body doesnt hold as easyer than others like mine does i can easerly not cycle and keep my weight due to my lifestyle but if i hit 15 stone i will dropp to 14.6 after cycle because thats where my body like to be so it proves your body doesnt want all that extra over weight ie muscle it likes you 20 lbs lower if you keep pushing it to do what it doesnt want to do youll then after a good period of time start getting major problems.

people just forget its just a drug nothing else if your body doesnt want to push past a certain limit it wont ull just get a load of bad sides and a heart attack its all down to this KNOW YOUR LIMITS like for me to hit 18 stone id have to take massive amounts of gear and eat shit loads everyday even off cycle and itll be every hour not 3 !!!! fck that im happy now fluctuating up from 14 to 16 and back again as i still get lean gains and a better shaped look to my body and not having ago but you dont drop any calories after you cycle especialy during pct you should know this i dont drop till 6 weeks after pct then a good cut just saying, and i ve also been training over 15 years as well started when i was 14 years old but was never spose to be touching 14-15-16 as all my family are very skinny lean people so YOU DONT LOSE ALL YOUR GAINS WHEN OFF its upto your body and your lifestyle but you have messed up by dropping 1000 calories thats alot and that was your mistake buddy!

[Brazensol]

I've only known one guy who did steroids and body building so I know it is a small sample. He would look great shortly after starting his cycle but when it was over he looked just like he did before the cycle. We called him the incredible shrinking man! That is the one reason I hesitate to try a cycle myself. I mean, what's the point? To much downside with very little upside.

[AD]

I've only known one guy who did steroids and body building so I know it is a small sample. He would look great shortly after starting his cycle but when it was over he looked just like he did before the cycle. We called him the incredible shrinking man! That is the one reason I hesitate to try a cycle myself. I mean, what's the point? To much downside with very little upside.

You're smart to play it safe. Thats always a good rule to follow.

[t-dogg]

I agreed TS, as it seems you are way past your genitic limits. Unless you stay on gear at high doses keeping "mega gains" isnt happening.

[Patryn]

sorry then kiddo, you're right and im wrong, sure after 21yrs of lifting weights what would i know anyway?

What does experience with lifting have to do with knowing how to keep steroid gains post cycle? There are thousands of members on just a handful of forums consisting of people who have kept a large portion of their gains post cycle. Those who lose a bit generally do not lose it nearly as quickly as you did. Clearly your situation is far from the norm. I don't even lose Drol gains that quickly.

[binsser]

i just think your at a very good weight m8 and your body dosent want to keep more so given the chance itll just drop it and you gave it the chance by restricting the calories if i drop 1000 cals id instantly drop aload of weight but dont get me wrong look really lean and good but weight will def fly down buddy!

[dec11]

Od have to think your wrong cause how do the pros do it... they get to 300+ pounds under 7%bf and are monsters

eeerrrr, they dont come off and are genetically gifted, common enough knowledge there bucko......

[dec11]

What does experience with lifting have to do with knowing how to keep steroid gains post cycle? There are thousands of members on just a handful of forums consisting of people who have kept a large portion of their gains post cycle. Those who lose a bit generally do not lose it nearly as quickly as you did. Clearly your situation is far from the norm. I don't even lose Drol gains that quickly.

keep on believing every clown on the internet and fooling yourself, if thats your thing

[Phased]

Over the past 7wks I have ran a total of 14500mgs of AAS made up from drol, dbol, tren a, tren e and all of the main test esters. i was leading up to a deadlift meet.

i put on a total of just over 23lbs in this period and discontinued everything last Sat morn. This Sat morn im down 10lbs in weight already and by next Sat morn I can guarantee i'll be down at least another 10lbs.

now, i did knock off 1000cals of my pre comp diet but even still, this goes to show that there is no such thing as maybe doing a cycle, be that bit bigger and be done with it.

oh no, it doesnt work that way.

if you're a novice and esp if you're a young novice, think twice........

Great post and thank you for your honesty, hope some folks listen up.

[dec11]

mmmmm theres no pinting putting a thread up and when you get reviews thinking ur 100 percent right because bud your not...... i gained a massive amount after my first cycle and that was over 10 years ago and lost nothing not a bean it also took me about 3 years of hardly training to notice definition change so i jumped back on full time and done a cycle gain another stone and stopped again and never lost that either...?

im not saying your completely wrong but maybe your body doesnt hold as easyer than others like mine does i can easerly not cycle and keep my weight due to my lifestyle but if i hit 15 stone i will dropp to 14.6 after cycle because thats where my body like to be so it proves your body doesnt want all that extra over weight ie muscle it likes you 20 lbs lower if you keep pushing it to do what it doesnt want to do youll then after a good period of time start getting major problems.

people just forget its just a drug nothing else if your body doesnt want to push past a certain limit it wont ull just get a load of bad sides and a heart attack its all down to this KNOW YOUR LIMITS like for me to hit 18 stone id have to take massive amounts of gear and eat shit loads everyday even off cycle and itll be every hour not 3 !!!! fck that im happy now fluctuating up from 14 to 16 and back again as i still get lean gains and a better shaped look to my body and not having ago but you dont drop any calories after you cycle especialy during pct you should know this i dont drop till 6 weeks after pct then a good cut just saying, and i ve also been training over 15 years as well started when i was 14 years old but was never spose to be touching 14-15-16 as all my family are very skinny lean people so YOU DONT LOSE ALL YOUR GAINS WHEN OFF its upto your body and your lifestyle but you have messed up by dropping 1000 calories thats alot and that was your mistake buddy!

never said i was, it was aimed at people that think they'll gain 20lbs each time and keep the most of it.

i havent made a mistake or messed up anything, NOT a bb'er, not interested in killing myself to hold onto WATER..........

if your so clever then explain why the water didnt remain at 5000CALS A DAY, yes 5000 a day, maybe you skimmed over that part.

why are some so scared to admit the truth, scared to lose kudos on the internet? lmao

[catweasel]

I have ran a total of 14500mgs

Typo surely?
Guy must be like a pin cushion to get all that in.

Edit: Just noticed its over seven weeks, still quite a lot, but not what I first thought.

[hankdiesel]

never said i was, it was aimed at people that think they'll gain 20lbs each time and keep the most of it.

i havent made a mistake or messed up anything, NOT a bb'er, not interested in killing myself to hold onto WATER..........

if your so clever then explain why the water didnt remain at 5000CALS A DAY, yes 5000 a day, maybe you skimmed over that part.

why are some so scared to admit the truth, scared to lose kudos on the internet? lmao

You'll never be able to, or even want to keep water weight post cycle. I am on trt like yourself. When I switch to my cruise dose (125mg) I don't lose all my gains. I'm sure you don't either, probably just a bunch of water weight. At this point it takes juice and a whole lot of work to gain even 5lbs of muscle per year. It sounds like you're in the same boat.

[dec11]

You'll never be able to, or even want to keep water weight post cycle. I am on trt like yourself. When I switch to my cruise dose (125mg) I don't lose all my gains. I'm sure you don't either, probably just a bunch of water weight. At this point it takes juice and a whole lot of work to gain even 5lbs of muscle per year. It sounds like you're in the same boat.

One of the very few sensible replies so far

[dec11]

Typo surely?
Guy must be like a pin cushion to get all that in.

Edit: Just noticed its over seven weeks, still quite a lot, but not what I first thought.

nope not a typo and its a lot, it was for competing though, not just for the hell of it

[poppz]

you have a lot of posts and probably a good amount of cycles OP, ,surely Yu have gained good mass in that time.

[dec11]

you have a lot of posts and probably a good amount of cycles OP, ,surely Yu have gained good mass in that time.

well, that's me in the AVI, 3wks ago, you decide....

[dec11]

I still go back to a certain weight and despite some of the stupider replies, I do know what im, doing after 21yrs.

[dhriscerr]

Here is a decent article on genetic potential, I know there are a hand full of formulas that help you find out your genetic potentials. Clearly if you let your hormones get back to normal your going to slowly lose those gains. Your body can't hold onto it its just not possible. Professional Bodybuilders are on HGH, Insulin, Gear amounts in a month that many dont run in a year. Most people wont even see their genetic potential without gear and once your there you definitely need gear to go beyond that. I think what people are trying to tell you is that people will see gains, and can maintain them up until their maximum potential, once you hit that, you can hopefully cruise around that and build a little bit each time your on cycle. You also don't lift for hytrpophy because your only interested in strength not size. Your not going to add 20lbs every time but hopefully you can add 5-10 your first few cycles until you get to your max once you get there AAS is the only way to go beyond that. With out HGH, Insulin, IGF, MGF, GHRP you can't add cells you can only expand and cause hytrophy of the muscle you already have.

Please note that this is a very informal post and my opinion.

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

[dec11]

Here is a decent article on genetic potential, I know there are a hand full of formulas that help you find out your genetic potentials. Clearly if you let your hormones get back to normal your going to slowly lose those gains. Your body can't hold onto it its just not possible. Professional Bodybuilders are on HGH, Insulin, Gear amounts in a month that many dont run in a year. Most people wont even see their genetic potential without gear and once your there you definitely need gear to go beyond that. I think what people are trying to tell you is that people will see gains, and can maintain them up until their maximum potential, once you hit that, you can hopefully cruise around that and build a little bit each time your on cycle. You also don't lift for hytrpophy because your only interested in strength not size. Your not going to add 20lbs every time but hopefully you can add 5-10 your first few cycles until you get to your max once you get there AAS is the only way to go beyond that. With out HGH, Insulin, IGF, MGF, GHRP you can't add cells you can only expand and cause hytrophy of the muscle you already have.

Please note that this is a very informal post and my opinion

http://www.bodyrecomposition.com/mus...potential.html

I do train in building rep ranges also, I've worked in the industry and am educated to degree level also. Muscle brought on Bt AAS is not permanent, plain and simple, everyone I know in real life shrinks back down and it only seems to be the internet warriors who reckon they keep the most of everything. Surprise surprise

[dec11]

****ing phone, misspelling all over the shop lol. I'll continue after work

[Mrcivil]

Have to agree once you hit you genetic potential maintaining anything above that would seem impossible unless running massive amounts of growth and gear constantly. Everyone's genetic potentials are different some people can hold 140+ kgs body weight lean others can not. I have a good friend with 4 cycles down a lot of years training knows his nutrition etc etc he can not get over 100 kg he looks great at his body weight but he is at his genetic potential will keep some small gains after cycles but never gets a lot. Me I sit at 110 kg naturally have gotten higher think my heaviest was 128 kg but a lot of bf. I have no illusions that aas will make me miraculously huge I use for strength purposes as well not near op lifts but getting there. But have to agree believing you will always hold gains after a cycle is incorrect if it were true there would be 250 kg monsters walking around everywhere

[dec11]

Not many 140kg lean lifters around mate.....

[Mrcivil]

Not many 140kg lean lifters around mate.....

Yeah I know was a bit exaggeration on that weight but I have seen guys that can sit at 125 lean.

[BobTheBodyBuilder]

Surely if one cycles before reaching his genetic potential, he can maintain ~50% gains from first 2-3 cycles. Considering diet, training, and rest is in check.

[dec11]

Pity there aren't studies that can shed light on true permanent muscle built with AAS aid

[Mrcivil]

It would be good to see a study done like that. I would think a lot of it would be variable dependent on each persons genetic potential I would be interested to know how much past that potential you can hold without copious amounts of gear and the impact hgh would have on getting past that point and keeping those gains.

[Bulkn]

I see it like taking 2 steps forward, 1 step back. Might go up say 6kg, end up keeping about 3. Thats on a lean bulk with use of an ai.

[dec11]

I reckon HGH is the ticket to saving AAS gains and beyond, I'll know this time next year

[Phased]

I reckon HGH is the ticket to saving AAS gains and beyond, I'll know this time next year

Absolutely

[Mrcivil]

I reckon HGH is the ticket to saving AAS gains and beyond, I'll know this time next year

Seems to be the ticket

[SEOINAGE]

unfortunately according to that natural genetic potential I have been there for a while. Kind of disappointing honestly, I sure hope I can maintain more muscle mass than this. Haven't cycled yet, but my goal is to be a lot stronger, and drop some fat, if it takes AAS to do it, I'll take it but it almost sounds like it isn't going to be that helpful without cruising at unhealthy doses. Past couple days has made me think I don't know what I want to do anymore. I've been training fairly well for the last 4 years properly, with a good year and a half before with little gains, and then my early twenties when i put on all my beginner gains and trained for a solid 4 years before losing a large portion of it. I can make gains, but it comes at the cost of getting fatter and eating really well, but I get stronger when I do it just with creatine, by no means are any of my lifts anything awesome compared to what people do that are my size. I don't really want a ton of heavy anabolic use over an extended period, so maybe I'm not cut out for some of my goals. I certainly don't want to gain to a point and then lose all of it, nothing worse feeling than back tracking, as I have done it before by poor diet and lack of training. Or even when I reduce calories and lose a little weight while training hard and being stagnant or moving in reverse, or extra stress in life moving you backwards. Take a little time off and it's 6 months progressing back through it.

[Metalject]

its just a goal (which will most likely change over time), and idk what their stats are, nor do i care..

and btw, setting your goals higher than what you think is possible is not exactly a bad thing to do...just a tip.

Nothing wrong with having goals, without them there's not much of a point. However, we have to be realistic about our goals. This doesn't mean you cannot gain more muscle than the average man or that you have to settle on average goals, far from it, but there are still basic rules that apply to all of us no matter how hard we work or how dedicated we are to our goals.

[Metalject]

eeerrrr, they dont come off and are genetically gifted, common enough knowledge there bucko......

Some of them do come off...not for extremely long periods of time but many of them come off. A lot of them will come off after the Olympia and they will shrink. It's not uncommon for a lot of these guys to run nothing but a TRT dose for 2-3 months after the Olympia and I can think of a few who don't run anything at all for a couple of months. Yes, they shrink, noticeably. Still more muscular than most men but there's definitely a loss.

I've said it a thousand times, it takes a certain amount of hormones circulating through the body to maintain a set amount of muscle tissue just as it takes a set amount of calories for maintenance.

[Mrcivil]

Some of them do come off...not for extremely long periods of time but many of them come off. A lot of them will come off after the Olympia and they will shrink. It's not uncommon for a lot of these guys to run nothing but a TRT dose for 2-3 months after the Olympia and I can think of a few who don't run anything at all for a couple of months. Yes, they shrink, noticeably. Still more muscular than most men but there's definitely a loss.

I've said it a thousand times, it takes a certain amount of hormones circulating through the body to maintain a set amount of muscle tissue just as it takes a set amount of calories for maintenance.

I noticed photos the other day of Dorian Yates now days still a big guy but no where near where he was when he competed was amazing to see how different he looks. With what you are saying about them running trt doses is this because they are permanently shut down or is it to remain on and big. I had a mate who did 2 years straight on gear not because he needed to and dude was ridiculously massive but he came off stopped training and dropped right down still big but nowhere near where he was

[warmouth]

So the HGH thing. Does it help with actually keeping gains from AAS useage permenant? I know GH onits own does very little on its own in normal doseages. But is it possible to keep alot of the actual mucsle built on AAS? I finished up a test only cycle in june or july and went up 15lbs and have lost nothing yet. When does the loses normal begin to start? I know you(OP) began to lose pretty quick, but others seem to lose much slower. I know much is lost, but I have been able to maintain my weight gain so far. I sure hope I can get to my desired weight and maintain.

[warmouth]

I am on TRT, so that may have quite a bit to do with it. I didnt put that into consideration.

[binsser]

[QUOTE=dec11;6174880]never said i was, it was aimed at people that think they'll gain 20lbs each time and keep the most of it.

i havent made a mistake or messed up anything, NOT a bb'er, not interested in killing myself to hold onto WATER..........

if your so clever then explain why the water didnt remain at 5000CALS A DAY, yes 5000 a day, maybe you skimmed over that part.

did nt skip nothing buddy did you skip my next post saying your at a very good weight etc etc like said above youll keep most of your gains for the first few cycles after that its alot harder becuase your body genetics just doesnt want it period not having ago your at a good weight why push it ull end up hurting yourself thats all and you did do something wrong in that cycle either your diet or something becuase no=one and i mean no-one loses 20bls in 2 weeks bud think your diet must of been abit out and 5000 calories a day isnt hard to reach either really bud!
why are some people so ignorant as too admit they messed a cycle up as well LMFAO

[SEOINAGE]

I am on TRT, so that may have quite a bit to do with it. I didnt put that into consideration.

It could also be because you haven't reached your potential. And nothing is permanent even with HGH obviously. I would even imagine you'd have to keep taking the HGH and it will maintain what it will. There are those using some form of growth hormone to help them maintain and keep their test dose at a safer level.