36 yo trt dosage question to upgrade natural T.

[BetterLife]

Hey guys I have used gear in the past from the ages of 23-28. Then went natty. I am 36 now. I was eager for gains as a youngster then just decided to wise up. Now I am just looking to perhaps to have a boost of Tlevels. I have some test from my 20's that I never used. What would be a simple yet effect dosage to get your T levels up to say like a 19 yo? Would love hear some educated guys opinions. Again just looking to be educated. Thankyou.

[xxblazenlowxx]

I would start by educating my self in the trt section and getting blood work done.

I would also suggest going to a TRT clinic, they will give you a script for the correct labs and review them for you.

You can then make an educated decision based on your labs.

[almostgone]

Labwork for starters. You can't go by feel. You may know you don't feel like you did when you were younger, buy you can't assign a value to it. Without accurate values, you can address the problem.

Also, strictly in regards to TRT/HRT read in the forum below.

https://forums.steroid.com/hormone-r...-t-anti-aging/

[BetterLife]

Well can you explain how that would work? You get your labs and the doctor would tell you the exact dosage required? I am pretty fit. Stronger than i was at 20.

bodyfat around 16-17%
160 lbs At 5'9"

I was training as a pro athlete till the pandemic hit.

Again good body just looking to upgrade lose some bodyfat. I still feel like im 19 and look it too. Just curious

[SampsonandDelilah]

Just ask your primary care physician for lab work. Tell him your symptoms (tired, foggy, loss of libido) and ask that you’d like your testosterone levels checked...to include free, total test and estrogen. It’s easy to do and covered by insurance. That’ll give you a baseline and see where your values fall in. Free test is as equal as if not more important than total. Then you can decide what you’d like to add. If you decide you want to add a trt dose, you’ll need to run labs again in 4-6 weeks...that can be done through a self pay private lab.

[BetterLife]

Hey man I see your avatar pic? what are your stats. looking rock solid. thats motivation. I dont feel any (tired, foggy, loss of libido) fyi. but point noted. Also what is your usage/diet and training like. Id love to know. Great physique based on that pic.

[SampsonandDelilah]

Hey man I see your avatar pic? what are your stats. looking rock solid. thats motivation. I dont feel any (tired, foggy, loss of libido) fyi. but point noted. Also what is your usage/diet and training like. Id love to know. Great physique based on that pic.

Thank you. I’m 45 and 6’3 and hovering around 245.
Just started a bulking cycle last week that I’m hoping to document.
I just cruise on 200 mgs of test (prior to last week).

I get that your not symptomatic now, my point was on how to engage your clinician into a conversation and get the labs covered. Bloodwork is the telltale sign followed by symptoms (objective and subjective).

I’ve run cycles on and off with different compounds, but test has always been the best for me.

To put my diet simply, I’m usually eating 3-500 calories over maintenance and averaging around a 40/40/20 split. I don’t really count to aggressively anymore because I don’t vary to far outside of my normal food patterns.

I had some serious health shit earlier this year and am battling back from it. I’m still down about 20# from where I was in March, but am coming along much faster than I anticipated.

The food is the toughest for me right now as my body is still pissed at red meat and certain fats. Trying to find my balance again.

Don’t want to hijack your thread (you asked, lol). I have a thread started you can read...and if I motivate, I’ll run a log for this blast.

This is a great community and SO many knowledgeable vets. Once you dial in your goals and state them, you’ll get the help you need.

If running just higher level test levels is what you want, there’s things you need to be mindful of and ensure that the “juice is worth the squeeze”. Mainly not shutting yourself down for minimal gains, it’s get harder to restart (PCT) as we age or giving in to TRT for life

[slfmade]

Just ask your primary care physician for lab work. Tell him your symptoms (tired, foggy, loss of libido) and ask that you’d like your testosterone levels checked...to include free, total test and estrogen. It’s easy to do and covered by insurance. That’ll give you a baseline and see where your values fall in. Free test is as equal as if not more important than total. Then you can decide what you’d like to add. If you decide you want to add a trt dose, you’ll need to run labs again in 4-6 weeks...that can be done through a self pay private lab.

I agree 100% with this. The only thing I'd add is asking your doc to run SHBG as well. It seems more and more common that guys are seeing low normal - normal total numbers with rock bottom free T. SHBG is usually the culprit but many family practice docs are still hesitant to prescribe if your total T is within range. Having your SHBG results can can fuel your argument for why you need trt. I only say to get this up front because docs are under continuous pressure to run fewer tests. If your numbers come back relatively normal it's unlikely that he'll want to add more tests on top of normal -ish findings. So make it easier on yourself and your doc by requesting everything at the same time.

[SampsonandDelilah]

100% - exactly and well said ^^^^^^^

[Hughinn]

Thank you. I’m 45 and 6’3 and hovering around 245.
Just started a bulking cycle last week that I’m hoping to document.
I just cruise on 200 mgs of test (prior to last week).

I get that your not symptomatic now, my point was on how to engage your clinician into a conversation and get the labs covered. Bloodwork is the telltale sign followed by symptoms (objective and subjective).

I’ve run cycles on and off with different compounds, but test has always been the best for me.

To put my diet simply, I’m usually eating 3-500 calories over maintenance and averaging around a 40/40/20 split. I don’t really count to aggressively anymore because I don’t vary to far outside of my normal food patterns.

I had some serious health shit earlier this year and am battling back from it. I’m still down about 20# from where I was in March, but am coming along much faster than I anticipated.

The food is the toughest for me right now as my body is still pissed at red meat and certain fats. Trying to find my balance again.

Don’t want to hijack your thread (you asked, lol). I have a thread started you can read...and if I motivate, I’ll run a log for this blast.

This is a great community and SO many knowledgeable vets. Once you dial in your goals and state them, you’ll get the help you need.

If running just higher level test levels is what you want, there’s things you need to be mindful of and ensure that the “juice is worth the squeeze”. Mainly not shutting yourself down for minimal gains, it’s get harder to restart (PCT) as we age or giving in to TRT for life

I don't mean to intrude, but you seem like the exact guy I was hoping to find for some questions. Were similar in age. . Would you mind looking?
https://forums.steroid.com/new-membe...-opinions.html

[BetterLife]

Ditto I did something really stupid started eating junk drinking sugary lattes every day 2017-2018 not to mention i was smoking pot and drinking to get through a very low point in my personal life. I didnt workout my chest that year. All the fat went to it. I was completely unaware since I have always had a fast metabolism still eating like i was 20 and not giving an Eff. Until i wore my spandex like normal at the gym and saw my man boobs. That really scared me. I took care of most of that situation through diet reform but my right pec still has some aerola fat giving it a mild pointy look. Very conscious of it as it looks slightly raised. Can you please tell me if this will just subside with fat loss? worried. It seems to improve in appearance when i drop bodyfat. Looking back I am at fault for my poor lifestyle and battling high cortisol levels due to extreme stress. Yet I just want a normal looking right pec. What is the best strategy with covid 19. I am jogging everyday plus eating greens regularly and doing pushups 3 times a week.

[DustMan]

If you don't have any symptoms of low test then you should heavily consider the long term effects of TRT, like:
Risk of blood clot or cardiac episode
Depletion of HDL
Blood pressure increases
Lower SHBG, and therefore increased all cause mortality
Estrogen related side effects
DHT related side effects

It's more important in the context of TRT than steroid cycles because after you've been on TRT for a couple years, it's unlikely you'll be able to get off without a significant drop in natural hormone levels, no matter how well you PCT.

If you're going to do it anyway then recommended pre TRT bloodwork(Assuming only testosterone) is:
Complete blood count
Free Test
Total Test
Sensitive E2 (estriadol)
Blood triglycerides
Hemoglobin
Hematocrit
Prostate Specific Antigen
HDL
LDL
SHBG

Then, 6 weeks after your first shot, and 48 hours (+/- 12 hours) after your last shot, you get your bloodwork done again. Same stuff, but make sure that your Free Testosterone is UNCAPPED to at least 2000.

Male reference range is between 300-1100 free testosterone, 1100 being like.... 0.01% of the genetic elite men on the planet at exactly 21 years of age. 300 being borderline Hypo, but lots of guys are fine there.... A lot of guys do 200mg+ a week(test C or E), which would theoretically have you fluctuating between 2200ng/dl and 1200ng/dl, source: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5182226/

The total test isn't really a good marker, even though it's what everyone uses, because exogenous testosterone crushes SHBG levels and cranks up free test, free test is what your body uses, SHBG bound test is 99% unusable, so 2200 isn't really double the top 0.01% genetic elite level, it's way more than that.

One last thing to take into consideration is that our levels fluctuate throughout the day, your Doc will test you first thing in the morning, during an 8+ hour fast, where you will hopefully have had 8 hours sleep. This is the highest test level you will have all day, and it drops lower throughout the day. If you don't get 8 hours sleep? If you're dieting? If you're stressed out? If you've been drinking? It crashes. You don't have to worry about any of that when you're on TRT, you'll always be consistently at high levels no matter what.

If you injected Test E twice a week at 100mg a week (50mg per shot) you would have blood levels roughly between 1000ng/dl and 800ng/dl at all times. That would put you at the rough testosterone equivalent of the most genetically superior 21 year olds, with the absolute most dialed in diets, sleep and training, in the world, except you would also be immune to the negative effects of poor sleep, poor diet, etc, and in reality your free T would be much higher than normal, so.... that's pretty damn good.

Last thing, UGL gear is sometimes over / underdosed, and everyone responds to gear slightly differently, that's why it's important to do your own bloodwork and not rely on statistics you read from studies.

Edit: Here is more data regarding serum levels of Total T, Free T, LH, FSH, SHBG, and IGF-1 levels in regards to dose, however this study measured these levels 1 week after the last injection, and the ester used was enanthate. So if you match the total T data from here to the previous study you'll see it's very similar, giving accuracy to the earlier dose response statement. You can skip the study and scroll down to Table 2 for the data: https://journals.physiology.org/doi/...01.281.6.E1172

[powerliftmike]

Think most things have been covered in the above posts. Some physicians do prefer to treat only if low T symptomatic, not treating based on the "number" (i.e. bloodwork). There is merit to this but if you are wanting to build muscle, doing so in a hypogonadal state is futile. There still exists a medical stigma, most people wouldnt put so much thought into correcting low thyroid or insulin levels.