To the experts: please criticise my supplement plan

[shorinryu69]

Hi Guys some stats: 5f10, 189 pounds (before i was 172 pounds). I want to reach 198 pounds (and keep low fat like now).

I am against pro-hormones, superdrol etc....Provide my food intake is good and rest and training good.; this would be 2 hypothesis of cycle of 8 weeks of supplementations

Hyp A

Week 1 30 grams a day creatine monohydrate (to reach saturations)

then (2-3-4) 5 grams of CEE (Primaforce, which I trust) Before and after

Week 5 (rest creatine)

Week 6 loading mon at 30 again

7-8 Cee

For all the 8 weeks:

4 caps of optimum nutrition tribulus (625 x 4)

6 caps arginine ornithine now before work out

300 mg of Ala (primaforce)

perhaps AST Mh750 (what do u think useful?)

Then 3 weeks off of creatine

5 caps of methoxy (ON)
ZMA
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hypo B

Start Primaforce cee at beginning (for 4 weeks, rest the 5th, then 6-7-8 again). Use CEE after workout

use 4 caps of Dymatize expand before workout

then all the same the other cycle

I use a cycle because it seems (Dr. Serrano and AST recomends to keep gains of creatine and exploit anabolism). I can stand the puffy face of mono only for 1 week this is the reason i switch with CEE

what do u think?

[ginkobulloba]

I think the 30g a day of mono is overkill and don't really know why you are doing that. CEE is better anyway and there is no loading phase, of course loading with mono is basically just a marketing scheme. 5g is okay, but you don't need it before and after. I think you'd be better off using tongkat than tribulus, or take an AI if you really want a test increase. Some of that stuff you have mentioned I don't know about, but I don't see any vitamins in there.

[Giantz11]

That depends on how fast you want muscle creatine saturation. It takes about 6 days at 20g per day to increase muscle creatine content by 20%, it takes 20+ days to reach this at 5g a day.

[prolangtum]

there is no need to load.

[shorinryu69]

Thanks guys!

the reason of the 30 gram is because of the 0.35 x kg Body weight during the loading phase
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/koch1.htm
http://www.mikefrancois.com/creatineteenagers.htm

Regarding CEE when is the best moment to get it ?Anyone has tried to get the body saturated with Mono (say 1 week) and then to continue with CEE.
Do I need to stack the CEE with a no product such as dymatize expand or arginine/ornithine now is enough?


Ginko yes, i use a multivitamin/mineral, fish oil

[O.M.E.G.A]

I have always believed in Creatine load whether the science supported it or not

in fact I used to take a full week off the gym and load every day during this period

then when I went back to the gym I would make sure to take a dosage pre and post workout to maintain high levels

[novastepp]

when you load it...you're just going to piss it out...and i would like to know who said that it takes 6 days at 20 mg a day?

[Giantz11]

Department of Physiology and Pharmacology, University Medical School, Queen's Medical Centre, Nottingham, United Kingdom.

The effect of dietary creatine and supplementation on skeletal muscle creatine accumulation and subsequent degradation and on urinary creatinine excretion was investigated in 31 male subjects who ingested creatine in different quantities over varying time periods. Muscle total creatine concentration increased by approximately 20% after 6 days of creatine supplementation at a rate of 20 g/day. This elevated concentration was maintained when supplementation was continued at a rate of 2 g/day for a further 30 days. In the absence of 2 g/day supplementation, total creatine concentration gradually declined, such that 30 days after the cessation of supplementation the concentration was no different from the presupplementation value. During this period, urinary creatinine excretion was correspondingly increased. A similar, but more gradual, 20% increase in muscle total creatine concentration was observed over a period of 28 days when supplementation was undertaken at a rate of 3 g/day. In conclusion, a rapid way to "creatine load" human skeletal muscle is to ingest 20 g of creatine for 6 days. This elevated tissue concentration can then be maintained by ingestion of 2 g/day thereafter. The ingestion of 3 g creatine/day is in the long term likely to be as effective at raising tissue levels as this higher dose.

[O.M.E.G.A]

when you load it...you're just going to piss it out...and i would like to know who said that it takes 6 days at 20 mg a day?

7 days at 20 grams a day in the load

and 10 grams a day after

but now with the advent of CEE I would do 7-8 grams in the load

and

3-4 after