The NO BULL Poll. Progestin activity and superdrol/ nolva

[AnabolicBoy1981]

Ok, im sick of the propaganda about superdrol being progestenic, and that because of such tamoxifen citrate(nolva) cant be used with it.. Lets get to the bottom of this. Im sure there might be information on paper saying its a progestin, but im sure i remember seeing plenty of guys in here that used the combo no problem, no gyno. So whats the deal? ALL SUPERDROL VETS COME FORTH.

[hawktribal]

used it with nolva, got gyno, i was running letro at 2.5mg/day to get rid of the symptoms.

[embalmer]

if i recall people had more problems with phera than they did with superdrol

[UpstateTank]

Ok, im sick of the propaganda about superdrol being progestenic, and that because of such tamoxifen citrate(nolva) cant be used with it.. Lets get to the bottom of this. Im sure there might be information on paper saying its a progestin, but im sure i remember seeing plenty of guys in here that used the combo no problem, no gyno. So whats the deal? ALL SUPERDROL VETS COME FORTH.

I've been thinking about this recently as well and I'm glad you decided to post this. I ran sd and for pct i used clomid + aromasin and got no gyno (yet anyways today is my last day of pct). However I saw the supplement profile for sd and it stated sd was a dht derivative, not a progestin. I'm not sure of the progesterone stimulating properties of dht-derivatives, but I did arrive at the conclusion that sd was not a progestin. Also I'm pretty sure sd is derived from the steroid matseron, and masteron itself is a dht derivative...lets keep this thread goin guys and figure this out!

[Bigstiffler]

i used just superdrol & i got no gyno symptoms @ all

[tinyguy2]

this pole is stupid just cause some people didnt get gyno it doesnt mean u can't get it. alot of people dont get gyno

[kloter1]

hmm ive been thinking of using sd to kickstart my test cycle coming up. i might just scrap it.

[2gunzup11]

ive used SD with no gyno symptoms,during the cycle thought i might have but it was probally all mental from reading "OMG SD and gyno" posts every day
SD gave me some pretty bad bacne,still cant get rid of it some months later. never gunna touch the stuff again!

[AnabolicBoy1981]

this pole is stupid just cause some people didnt get gyno it doesnt mean u can't get it. alot of people dont get gyno

no. this poll is not stupid. this poll would be stupid if it were called "the Superdrol + Nolva Doesn't cause Gyno Poll: All those who used the combo and didnt get bitch tits come forth"............but its not. Im not out to prove SD's innocence. I want the truth....not just extrapoloations made from litiature with no real world track record.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

used it with nolva, got gyno, i was running letro at 2.5mg/day to get rid of the symptoms.

sorry to hear about this. thank you for posting.

have you ever used 19 nors? deca , tren , etc.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

I've been thinking about this recently as well and I'm glad you decided to post this. I ran sd and for pct i used clomid + aromasin and got no gyno (yet anyways today is my last day of pct). However I saw the supplement profile for sd and it stated sd was a dht derivative, not a progestin. I'm not sure of the progesterone stimulating properties of dht-derivatives, but I did arrive at the conclusion that sd was not a progestin. Also I'm pretty sure sd is derived from the steroid matseron, and masteron itself is a dht derivative...lets keep this thread goin guys and figure this out!

exactly. this is what urkes me. if SD is a progestin, then it may actually be the first dht derived hormone that acts like this.
It would be one thing if it just upregulated estrogen, as anadrol has been known too cause gyno even though it cant aromatize. SD shares some of the same attributes of both drol and mast, and in the write up was said to be a cross between both.
The problem is with these damn designer drugs is that they are new and never used in medicine since they are sold as BB supps, and therefore we have little scientific lit on their pharmacology. So the only info we really have is each other. This is why we needed a poll for this. I wish i could dig up the original posts that mentioned SD's progestenic activity. I willl eventually run a search for that, maybe next week, this week is shiit. no time.

[hawktribal]

sorry to hear about this. thank you for posting.

have you ever used 19 nors? deca, tren, etc.

never have, SD was my first go at anything that required pct. for the record, i wasn't using nolva during the cycle. i ran a nolva only pct which was thought was correct until recently. i got a delayed gyno from it-about 2 months later and was afraid to touch nolva after that. the letro kicked it pretty quick, but a little damage was already done.

for the record, i don't think this post is stupid at all. people are running SD with no sides, but some are getting some serious problems with this stuff. SD like products are becoming too common and we need to figure out how to properly run it.

[AnabolicBoy1981]

bump

c'mon, wheres the resta ya

[Flack]

I have used superdrol twice. The first time with no ill effects at all. The second time I got a delayed occurance of gyno about a month after my cycle. I used nolva as pct both times. I used letro to take care of the gyno...it took a while but went away so I thought. Here Iam three months later taking Tongkat Ali and now its flaring up. I dont know what that is all about but its time for more letro.

[notorious_mem]

bump from what everyone knows thats done sd is clomid still the prefered drug for pct?

[UpstateTank]

as you know clomid worked well for me

[fLgAtOr]

Great thread! I still don't think there is a bit of evidence that makes it a progestin.

Ran 30mg ED with 10mg of Nolva ED throughout with not even a bit of sensitivity.

Yes, I've run tren ...Yes, I got sensitivity when running it.

[fLgAtOr]

never have, SD was my first go at anything that required pct. for the record, i wasn't using nolva during the cycle. i ran a nolva only pct which was thought was correct until recently. i got a delayed gyno from it-about 2 months later and was afraid to touch nolva after that. the letro kicked it pretty quick, but a little damage was already done.

for the record, i don't think this post is stupid at all. people are running SD with no sides, but some are getting some serious problems with this stuff. SD like products are becoming too common and we need to figure out how to properly run it.

So would you attribute your gyno to SD or PCT that wasn''t strong enough for you?

[fLgAtOr]

exactly. this is what urkes me. if SD is a progestin, then it may actually be the first dht derived hormone that acts like this.
It would be one thing if it just upregulated estrogen, as anadrol has been known too cause gyno even though it cant aromatize. SD shares some of the same attributes of both drol and mast, and in the write up was said to be a cross between both.The problem is with these damn designer drugs is that they are new and never used in medicine since they are sold as BB supps, and therefore we have little scientific lit on their pharmacology. So the only info we really have is each other. This is why we needed a poll for this. I wish i could dig up the original posts that mentioned SD's progestenic activity. I willl eventually run a search for that, maybe next week, this week is shiit. no time.

Glad you brought that up.

I remember thats what it said in the manufacturer claims, but did they ever expand on that?

[notorious_mem]

as you know clomid worked well for me

ya thats what ive got set up for my pct.I was just hoping everyone else has had good results with it.lol

[dboy]

i only used formadrol as pct after a 3.5 week cycle and was fine - none of the 'delayed gyno' horseshite either and it's been 2ish months since

[UpstateTank]

i only used formadrol as pct after a 3.5 week cycle and was fine - none of the 'delayed gyno' horseshite either and it's been 2ish months since

imo formadrol is a bit too weak for pct...did you keep your gains?

[hawktribal]

So would you attribute your gyno to SD or PCT that wasn''t strong enough for you?

i'm relatively sure it was due to an "improper" pct. at the time, nolva only was the recommended pct for SD. just to throw this out there, i would NEVER run SD or an "otc steroid " ever again. these compounds are new and untested and we are becoming the guinea pigs for them. i've never ran a true cycle, but my friends who have and ran cycles said SD gave them the worst sides/problems afterward. I did gain a good amount of strength and weight from it, but the sides I experienced are not worth it. I'm not saying no one should run these products, but just know that these products are new and we are still trying to figure out how to properly run them and so far many people have had problems. take it for what it's worth.

[fLgAtOr]

So...
Two cases of delayed gyno...

I still think this progestin thing is bullshit...Not sure where this started.

[dboy]

imo formadrol is a bit too weak for pct...did you keep your gains?

I kept most of them, at the end of the day i gained probably 10lbs of the cycle, i may have lost a few pounds maybe but the strength increase is still there i broke thorough alot of plateaus off the shit. I really wanna go back on i felt really good when i was taking it minus the first week where i felt kinda sketched out.

[rar1015]

I used nolva with no problems but i know a guy from my gym that experienced gyno issues so i think my next pct will consist of clomid/aromasin .

[UpstateTank]

^^
ttt

This is a good thread...we need more ppl to contribute!

[Teegunn]

I know about 20 people who have used SD and PP. Of those 20, two had progestin gyno problems. One guy is still fighting it a year later. Personally, I do a PCT like this:

Clomid 50mg daily for 25 days
Aromasin 50mg daily for 30 days
Myogenx 6 caps a day for two months



BTW - I would use the Myogenx during cycle to keep the boys nice and plump and the natty test levels where they should be. In fact, I can't think of a time I would recommend dropping the Myongenx. Maybe after two months post cycle one could drop it up until they started another cycle.

[D-Bo Dre]

Hmm.. Interesting thread.. I used Nolva last year/ no gyno.. This is my last week of SD and am really considering running Nolva again instead of the much talked about Clomid.. Only ran a 3 week cycle this time instead of 4 like I did last year.. My thinking is that everyone is different, and why fix something that's not broken??! My only fear of clomid is the nasty sides that I've heard come along with it (emotional swings, vision effects etc.) Speak up ppl!!! Let's get to the bottom of this..

[number twelve]

i will be running clomid/aromasin

[dstyle42004]

If you guys are still interested, I found a great artical posted by roman 1984 that tells everything u would ever want to know about superdrol.

Courtesy of Strateg0s from I4L.com

THE SUPERDROL WRITEUP

CHEMISTRY

Superdrol (methasteron) is definitely not a prohormone: it is a very active form of a designer supplement. Superdrol gets its name from the fact that it is a super-saturated, or 2-reduced, form of Anadrol . Anadrol has a =C-OH at the 2nd position, and if this is totally saturated (reduced) with hydrogen, it gives -CH3. Another way to describe it is that it is a 2a-17a-dimethyl of drostanolone (Masteron ). Masteron has a single methyl group at the 2nd position. Superdrol is a modification of this structure by adding another methyl group at the 17th position, like M1T or M-Dien. However you may wish to look at it, it is by this simple-looking transformation that Superdrol comes to occupy the sweet spot between the chemical natures of Anadrol and Masteron. Since it is already reduced at the 5th position, it cannot make estrogen. Progesterone is not an issue: perhaps 0.1% can aromatize, in theory. In fact, this compound should not have any major metabolites at all. Maybe a few hydroxylated adrenal metabolites, but only traces. It is basically excreted unchanged as the conjugated glucuronate. The extra electron density at the 2 makes Superdrol 2-3x as anabolic (mg for mg) than Anadrol. To borrow from the language of genetics, Superdrol is a fine example of hybrid vigor: it has only the best attributes of each, and none of the worst. This is a supplement designed to have it all.

Anadrol/oxymetholone 17ß-hydroxy-2-hydroxymethylene-17a-methyl-5a-androstan-3-one
Superdrol/methasteron 2a,17a-Dimethyl-17ß-hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one
Masteron/drostanolone 2a-methyl-17ß -hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one
Proviron /mesterolone 1a-methyl-17ß -hydroxy-5a-androstan-3-one


EFFECTS

Anabolic effects & dosing requirements
As fascinating as all this chemistry might be, you are probably much more interested in how well Superdrol is going to work. What you are going to gain, and how much it will take you to make these gains? The gains from Superdrol are very dry and lean, so numbers do not tell the whole story, but let us look at them nonetheless. According to the book values, Superdrol should be 20% as androgenic as the reference standard methyl-test, and 400-800% as anabolic, while M1T is 910-1600%, and Anadrol closer to 300%, while being twice as androgenic as Superdrol, mg for mg. So in theory, Superdrol should be half as anabolic as the same dosage of M1T, and 10-20% as androgenic. This would mean that it should take twice the dosage of Superdrol to match the anabolic effects of M1T, at which dosage its androgenic side-effects would be 20-40% of those from M1T. Fortunately in the case of Superdrol it exceeds in practice its theoretical promise. All testers – who were selected in part because of their experience with M1T – found that the muscle gains produced from Superdrol were no less than 2/3 of what a comparable dose of M1T would have given them. Moreover, they found very few side-effects to complain about.

What this means for you is that you will need somewhere between 10 and 40mg of Superdrol per day. Period. There was, certainly, a desire to get this product to market before the ban, but because we were able to keep its chemistry secret, competition did not force it to be rushed, as was the case with M-Dien. Accordingly, proper testing was carried out, allowing us to determine real world dosing recommendations, not ballpark theoretical numbers. The following recommendations are honest and accurate: 10-15mg will be sufficient for beginners under 200lbs; 20-25mg for those advanced lifters under 200lbs, or for those above 200lbs but untrained; 30-35mg for men who have seriously trained themselves but are under 240lbs. For men who think they need to run a dose which falls between the use of whole capsules, one extra 10mg capsule can be taken before workouts, such that the weekly average is appropriate. as a rule of thumb, Superdrol will require 50% more of a dose than M1T to give you comparable gains in muscle. Any women who are entertaining the possibility of using Superdrol should reduce the weight to accord with their sex and their height, and then divide these dosages by a factor of no less than ten. Capsules will then have to be diluted in liquid to be measured accurately. For men, 40mg is a dose only for the very large or the true non-responders, by which I mean people who do not see results on less than 30mg of M1T. Very few people will need 40mg of Superdrol, and no one will need above 50mg. If used in a stack reduce the daily dose by 5-10mg, which would be very prudent given how well Superdrol will stack, and if not its expense, then your very limited supply.

The testers whose dosing fit the above guidelines gained, on average, five pounds of muscle in under three weeks, while losing water and gaining no fat on hyper caloric bulking diets. The quality of the gains from Superdrol comes from its likeness to Masteron while the quantity comes from its similarity to Anadrol. Masteron, expensive and very rare, is almost a perfect cutting steroid , being highly androgenic and anti-estrogenic. If you must have a rough comparison to something already out there, one tester described the quality of gains as being akin to those from fina or a test/halo combo, but such comparisons are bound to be inexact. Gains are very dry, and it makes muscles noticeably more hard and dense. The explosive gains from Anadrol are accompanied by a great deal of water retention and fat. M1T, as you surely well know, produces explosive gains not unlike those of Anadrol, but this comes at a cost. More on this later. As to how difficult it is to retain the gains from Superdrol, you are invited to follow the testers’ post-cycle results. To date, the results are promising, with no loss of mass or vascularity. The gains from Superdrol will be impressive, and they will not take long to start, but they will be more gradual to be recognized than those which come from aromatizing steroids . Your numbers in the gym and on the tape measure will go up, not explosively, but they will go up surely and steadily. The diuretic effect of Superdrol will at first mask the gains as you lose water and gain muscle. When mass begins to increase, it should do so disproportionately compared to tape-measurements. So if you are only checking the scale, or if you are not lean enough to notice the loss of water, persist and be rewarded.


Strength
Anadrol is famous for explosive gains in strength. M1T is not. Superdrol shares with Anadrol a capacity for impressive, but consistent, gains in strength. Testers experienced dramatic and immediate strength gains, when consuming sufficient calories. To their surprise and our delight, every single one became stronger every single workout, and many personal bests were recorded, while volume increased. Being a DHT derivative, it is a fair question to ask whether the strength gains from Superdrol can be maintained, or whether they will not dissipate shortly after one terminates use of the drug. In response to this, consider that 1) the strength gains from pure androgens are not generally accompanied by proportional gains in mass, and 2) the gains in both strength and mass which result from dianabol /m1,4add are - besides being accompanied by bloating - diminished soon after one goes off, they don’t just disappear, but they are hard to keep. If the mass gains from Superdrol are solid rather than fleeting, then the strength which came with this increase in muscle mass should be much easier to maintain than those which can result from the use of Anadrol, Dianabol/M1,4ADD, or many of the pure androgens, which achieve a significant amount of their effect on strength through their psychotropic effects on focus and aggression.

Athletic Performance
Along with marked increases in strength, all testers observed undeniable increases in their endurance, whether in cardio or adding to the sets they could perform. Breathing and heart rates were not as high as expected. Given Superdrol’s chemical relation to Anadrol and Masteron, it was speculated that this could be due to an increase in red blood cell (RBC) count, which would allow the use of more oxygen. Masteron has also been used as an Anadrol alternative for aplastic anemia, so it should be a strong immune stimulator and RBC booster, as many 5-reduced compounds are. In Anadrol, the extra stamina which should accompany the known increase in RBC is largely counteracted by the estrogen related effects. Because these are absent with Superdrol, increased RBC count may seemed a probable explanation for the increase in endurance. But because the increased endurance occurred quickly, I am hesitant to assert that an increased RBC count is the reason. Shortly after this appears in print, there should be blood work available to confirm or deny this. No matter the explanation, Superdrol does increase endurance significantly.

Fluid Retention
Masteron and Anadrol are on the opposite ends of the spectrum in regards to fluid retention. In this regard, Superdrol lies close to Masteron, which – being unable either to convert to estrogen or mimic the effects of estrogen – has typically been used for reducing water retention while increasing muscle hardness and density. The rapid gains in mass caused by Anadrol involve not a little water retention: bloating is unavoidable, as with Dianabol/M1,4ADD. With Superdrol, there is no extra water retention. There is not even facial bloating. It forms no estrogen, so the renin-angiotensin-aldosterone (RAAS) system cannot be activated to cause any water retention. M1T has the unfortunate effect of causing water retention in the kidneys, which can be painful, and is definitely unhealthy.

The pumps for which Anadrol is known are caused by an increase in the volume of blood, some of it RBC but much of it water. Blood pressure rises accordingly, and can lead to headaches, other forms of discomfort, or worse. The pumps from Superdrol could well be the result of the volumization of blood without the water gain, as noted above. It is in fact a mild diuretic. This helps contribute to the unmatched vascularity noticed in lean individuals. Because it dries you out, unless you are cutting for a reason, like a contest, you should increase your water intake accordingly. You can expect to drop at least several pounds of water in your first few days of use. From testers who monitored their blood pressure, there was no indication that it rose significantly, nor were there in others symptoms of high BP, for example, face turning beet red, or feeling nauseous after a few light sets. The pumps and increased vascularity from Superdrol are pleasant - “my biceps feel flexed when at rest” in the words of one tester. That is, until the dose is becomes too high, at which point Superdrol shares with Anadrol back pumps, cramps, or aches. These can inhibit workouts. At proper doses, these are fleeting, not unlike those from M1T, but not as severe. However, the tester who challenged the highest dose experienced such discomfort that he literally had to lay on the gym floor in between sets. It seems that Superdrol has a built in mechanism, harmless enough, to prevent its abuse.


Fat
Masteron is very effective in cutting cycles to reduce bodyfat; Anadrol does not mind putting on a few pounds ‘for the winter.’ Superdrol testers were all eating well, no one was cutting, and mass was going up faster than tape-measurements. It was wondered whether Superdrol exhibited fat-burning properties like tren . This can be discounted, and explained instead as a diuretic effect: testers size did not change dramatically because they lost water, while their muscles grew and became more dense. So in regard to fat, Superdrol falls right between Masteron and Anadrol: one could say that it neutral in terms of partitioning. When using Superdrol, fat will not magically melt away, but nor will it especially inhibit fat loss on a cut. It will not especially prime you for fat gains on a bulk, but if you do not watch your diet you can get fat.

Psychological Effects
The psychological effects of Anadrol and Masteron are noticeable, if not as pronounced as with some other DHT derivatives. It was not clear what, if any, psychological effects should have been expected from Superdrol, given how little its androgenic effects looked to be on paper. What the testers found, to begin with was that Superdrol felt “somatically clean,” meaning that there was zero sense of physical malaise or indisposition which is common to Anadrol and especially M1T. On the contrary, testers had a sense of physical well-being, a clean feeling of being ‘on’ – as distinct from the sure knowledge that one is growing, even if one doesn’t feel well, that one gets from M1T or Anadrol. This feeling was not as pronounced as with Dianabol. Psychologically, the following were attributed to the use of Superdrol: confidence, assertiveness, focus, increased libido, the need to do something, aggressiveness in the gym, a command mindset, and some irritability – especially upon ramping up to the next dosing level. One tester described the CNS stimulation he got from doing 30mg at once as being stronger than 50mg of M5, 32mg of M4OHN, or EC. Endurance and strength should be mentioned here as well, because while above I have offered physical explanations for them, some of this effect could well be psychological, in which case it would dissipate upon cessation of the use of Superdrol. There was some increase in appetite for some of the testers, a decrease for others; in either case this was not overwhelming.

Recovery
Recovery time on Superdrol was improved, slightly but noticeably - not on a par, however, with a similar dose of M1T, let alone Anadrol. In this light you should be reminded that the increases in strength which you will experience on Superdrol do not come with a proportional increase in the strength of connective tissue. So when using Superdrol, you should observe strict form in the gym or else you invites injury, which obviously defeats the purpose of any kind of performance enhancing agent.

ADVERSE EFFECTS

Across the board, testers were astounded by the virtual absence of unwelcome side-effects from Superdrol use. One tester, already balding, mentioned an occasional itchy scalp. The only exception to the clean bill given to Superdrol was noted earlier, lower back pain at excessive doses. This lack of side-effects can be attributed to Superdrol’s very low androgenic capacity and its anti-estrogenic effects.

Everything OK in there?
So what’s the catch, the bad news? From the provisional results, there does not seem to be any bad news. You should be sure to check the results of the testers’ blood work which will appear in their logs. If I were to speculate as to what could be most worrying, it would be if Superdrol lowered HDL (good cholesterol) levels into the single digits - something which M1T is very good at doing. As to hepatotoxicity, Superdrol is estimated to be more toxic than M4OHN, while far less toxic than M1T. The blood work will tell, but there was absolutely no indication from any of the testers, or from the chemistry of Superdrol, that it should be highly toxic. The unbearable back pumps which accompany excessive use of Superdrol effectively limits its potential for abuse. There were no indications of high blood pressure: headaches, nosebleeds, or anything of the sort. Testers were not fatigued or lightheaded, or any of the other symptoms of low blood sugar levels, as accompanies the use of M1T and Anadrol. Superdrol could still have some effect on this, however, and it something to keep in mind, especially if one will simultaneously be using Glucophase XR. Sleep was not interrupted, nor was it reported to be noticeably improved. Nausea and diarrhea were absent.

Unwelcome Growth
As stated earlier, Superdrol is a mild androgen, and anti-estrogenic. Testers found no occurrence of acne, excessive hair growth, indications of benign prostate hypertrophy (BPH). You will not want to brave the back cramps to take enough of this to make you have to begin to be worried about androgenic sides. At 40mg, one tester noticed a tendency to bruise more easily. Zero estrogen conversion with this one, because it's 5-reduced and A-ring alkylated on top of that. Binding to the aromatase enzyme, estrogen production will be reduced. Also, the parent compound (Masteron) is used exclusively as an anti-neoplastic for metastatic breast cancer, so Superdrol is a strong anti-e. Clearly, Superdrol is not progestational, it is non-aromatizable, and even anti-estrogenic. But this said, it is worth reminding you that no one is clear on what the reasons are for why people get gyno. It can occur even in people using substances with these characteristics. One tester thought he could be having some early symptoms of gyno, although on paper there is clearly no reason to suspect Superdrol contributed to this. The point to take from this is that it is imperative to always have nolvadex or generic tamoxifen citrate powder on hand to administer at the first notice of symptoms of gyno.

Unwelcome Losses
As has been stated, Superdrol is a mild androgen, and hair loss (androgenetic alopecia) should not be much of a concern if you are not very predisposed to it. Another concern, especially in light of the peoples’ experiences with M1T is the question of how hard Superdrol will shut you down. The testers ran Superdrol by itself, some of them at very high doses. Not one experienced anything to indicate anything like the severe degree of shutdown which almost immediately accompanies the use of M1T. That said, it is inconceivable that Superdrol can do what it does without affecting the HPTA axis, and PCT is always mandatory. Because Superdrol itself is mild in terms of shutdown, if you were to run it by itself, recovery with PCT should be quite easy. Most people, however, will elect to run Superdrol as part of a stack.


NECESSARY SUPPLEMENTS?

In the case of most oral steroids , legal or otherwise, there are a number of supplements which are not really optional. With M1T, everybody’s favorite, 4-AD is really not an option. Liver protection supplements are optional, or they are so only at your peril. And little can be done about perpetually low blood sugar levels, and single-digit HDL levels. Anti-e’s are not specifically necessary for most orals, used alone. With Superdrol, none of these supplements are necessary - and no letro, finasteride, or dex - because none of these side-effects are especially worrisome. The only potential exception is the HDL issue. All steroid use adversely affects HDL levels, but we need to be sure to know how safe Superdrol is in this regard. The results of the testers’ blood work will resolve this worry, or make people aware that this is an issue. In any case, the only thing which could be done about this would be to limit the length of one’s cycle. As mentioned above, supplements are necessary with every steroid for PCT, and Superdrol even though it is mild in terms of suppression is no exception.

mention this here in part to remind you of the possibility that research chemicals may become much more difficult to come across ***ending on what actions take place subsequent to the ban. With Superdrol, if anything is close to necessary, it would be general liver protection such as from K-R-ALA. Everything else is strictly optional, and can be used in a complementary stack Superdrol, not as something necessary to counter the deficiencies of the primary mass builder.

A very minor issue which you should look for an answer is what the half-life of Superdrol is in the body. If it is short, this will call for dividing your daily dose rather than taking it all at once. If the half-life is longer, it would be an unnecessary inconvenience to do so.


IMPLICATIONS AND STACKS

Cycle Length
Because of the toxicity of Anadrol and M1T, it is highly imprudent to use these for more than four weeks at a higher dose, and six weeks at any dose. For Superdrol, toxicity is not a great concern – little more than with M4OHN. So long as the results of the blood work come back favorably, i.e. if the HDL cholesterol is not reduced to single digit levels after several weeks usage, Superdrol can safely be used for longer cycles than 4 weeks. Otherwise, it should be used only for short cycles, or for short parts of longer cycles – obviously not in succession with M1T. I mention these issues because one of the things most of the testers mentioned is that they feel like they could run Superdrol perpetually: “I can run this forever” - “No, you can’t.” This would obviously be a bad idea.

Stacking
Unlike Masteron, Superdrol obviously works very well on its own. Anadrol is very powerful, but the problems with its use are evident. If you happen to get a lot of Superdrol, you can surely use it to great effect on its own, but given its limited availability, to get the most out of your supply, you will probably want to use it as part of a stack. Superdrol should stack well with pretty much everything, apart from those things which it begs to be used in the place of: such as M1T, M14ADD, DBol , Anadrol or Halo. There should be no need to stack this with another methyl. The only things even to consider this would be mild substances like M4OHN or M5AA, for example. As a rule, if you can find a way not to stack methyls, make the right choice. A low transdermal dose of 3-alpha is a very powerful pure androgen which could take the place of M5AA or MDHT. For bulking cycles, a stack with anything which aromatizes will work very well: Test, EQ/1,4ADione, Nandrolone . A significant amount of mass gains come from the presence of estrogen. Estrogen also stimulates white blood cell production, aiding your immune system, having too little estrogen will predispose you to becoming sick. M1T flu anyone? For more of a lean bulk more limited aromatizers would work very well: 4AD/ester, 19Nordiol/ester, 1,4ADiol, Primo. For a major cut, a non-aromatizing choice is called for, such as very dry mass-builder and/or a pure-androgen to produce sick separation and vascularity: 1-Test/ester or 5aa/ester, 3-alpha, Masteron, or Tren. There are so many combinations, it is really up to you to look at what is available, decide what your goals are, and choose the most appropriate items. You simply need to choose a complementary combination with your budget and your goals in mind.

Listed below are some examples, suggested in discussion with the testers. You should be able to discern their purpose. And there will surely be a good deal of discussion about potential stacks and their merits on the boards.

Superdrol + 1-Test + 4-AD + pure androgen + M4OHN
Superdrol + Test or Sledge Test
Superdrol + 5AD + 3alpha
Superdrol + 4-AD + MDHT + tren
Superdrol + 4-AD + tren
Superdrol + Test or 4-AD + Deca or Nordiol
Superdrol + 1-Test or Fina + Test
Superdrol + 1,4ADD/EQ or 19Nor/Deca or M4OHN

COST/BENEFIT ANALYSIS

“There’s no way it can replace M1T.” So says the conventional wisdom about every new legal anabolic since the introduction of this famous mass builder. New substances have come to the market, and it is true that none yet has replaced M1T. What is also true, outside of the most outlandish circus-vendor salesmanship, is that nothing which has come to market has made claims to be a serious mass-builder, a true challenger to M1T. M4OHN and M-dien have received a lot of bad press, not because they are useless, but because people were expecting them to be useful in a way they were not. The pure androgens M5AA, and recently MDHT, were never intended as mass builders, but for strength, aggression, hardening, and maybe some modest dry gains. 1-AD, being related to M1T was impressive in its own right, but its cost put this posh wonder beyond comparison with its inexpensive brethren. M1,4ADD could plausibly be called a bulker, but like its metabolite Dianabol, the gains from M1T by itself were more impressive and seemed qualitatively superior, even when M1,4ADD was used at an appropriately high dose.

Superdrol is up against M1T. By now consumers of legal anabolics have accepted M1T as the bar by which all competitors are judged. But in fact the bar had not been raised so high as they think. The bar was so very low before M1T (overlooking the efficacy of S1+), and people had been numbed by insipid hype of the time. M1T astounded the masses in large part because lived up to its hype - hell, it exceeded its hype. In this environment, it made M1T seem a precious white rhinoceros. We have come to expect huge gains from a couple of $10 bottles. To see what the trouble with the praise of M1T is, however, just go back and dig up your receipts, in your head or in fact, and look at people’s journals, check out the blood work. How did people feel while they were on it, what were the gains like, what was the total cost of ownership, and has anyone really looked forward to their next cycle of M1T? The economy is misleading, both in terms of money and in terms of your health.

When M1T was first introduced, the price was three times what it is now - even at the time it seemed extortive. Superdrol is appearing for the first time, and is the result of half a year’s worth of research and legwork to bring this compound from theory into practice. In a risky political environment, it had to be custom synthesized, with the cost of bringing it to market being very close to what M1T costs you. Yet the gains from Superdrol are comparable (check the logs, and if you use it send your own feedback). But whereas M1T produced size without comparable gains in strength, Superdrol gives both. To get the same kind of effects using M1T one would have to add enough 4-AD to counter suppression, and a pure androgen to get the gains in strength. Superdrol accomplishes this without the estrogen, and without the degree of androgenic effects. The actual gains are similar, with way fewer health issues.

Superdrol’s testers were chosen by members of ************* for their overall trustworthiness and ability to maintain a disciplined and logged training schedule. Each of the testers lived up to this. They ran Superdrol by itself, and they were not changing anything on the fly. Their results speak for themselves, and are very favorable all across the board. Superdrol is what M1T was hoped to have been. Superdrol sees this challenge, calling M1T’s bluff, and raises: “All in.” Designer Supplements is staking its reputation on the effectiveness of Superdrol – and this is no empty boast, because this company plans to be providing you with the best legal supplements for long after the ban.

If Anadrol-50 are with any justice dubbed A-bombs, then Superdrol capsules should come to be recognized as Smart-bombs. They are tactical anabolic which has no less incredible results, minus the collateral damage.

HELP A BROTHER OUT – THE REFERENCE POINT THREADS.

This write-up was compiled solely for the sake of informing the future user of exactly what to expect from Superdrol. Be sure to keep watching the testers logs as more information comes forth. For those who will be using Superdrol, please share your experience with everyone else using the Superdrol Reference Point Thread, in the Designer Supplements forum at *************. for a good read

[K.Biz]

i got gyno from sd and ran letro. and got rid of it, and now of course its flairing up again and its somewhat painful but im gonna order some more letro and use it after my OTC cycle that starts on monday. hopefully it wont get worse. i had no problems whatso ever when i was "on"

My pct was clomid only and looked like this: 105/70/70/35

my pct after my cycle that starts monday will be
Clomid 105/70/70/35
Aromasin 25/25/25/25

and perhaps some cyogenx when i come off both clomid and aromasin so i get no late gyno. not sure yet though. im curious to hear more


hasnt been a good thread like this in a while around these parts